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Friedcacher

Deleted log because of a photo.

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Posted (edited)

I would like to ask, if my log can be deleted, because I didn´t take a picture of my face.

I took 3 selfies, with my shoulder. From different angles.

CO deleted my log, because in his opinion it was not be able to identify me from the picture.

Is it right? Does it follow actual rules? I don´t think so.

 

Thank you for your answer and opinions.

Edited by Friedcacher
a mistake in spelling, not fluent in English
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You can appeal by contacting HQ. A CO can not demand that you are recognizable on a photograph.

Most listings I came across specifically state you don't have be in the picture yourself. I usually take a picture of my GPS in front of the item that needs to be photographed, like this:

kazeirkesmoord.thumb.jpg.f0ddfabbbee4a24c73026228b0b6cab4.jpg

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Earthcache logging tasks  LINKY

 

QUOTE: Asking geocachers to provide a photo of themselves or a personal item to prove they visited the site.  A personal item must be an option for those who do not want to photograph themselves. 

 

Your photo does not have to show your face, but a "proof of visit" photo is now allowed.  I think your shoulder is personal.  But that's just my opinion (and without seeing the photo).  You can appeal log deletion with HQ from this page LINKY

Edited by Isonzo Karst
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You could log again and include a copy of the geocaching rules re being allowed not to show your face. Then if the CO deletes your log again, then contact HQ.

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I deleted the log. The player did not meet the log condition. The condition of the logo is: Attach an identifiable photo of yourself or your GPS device with a legible nickname.
The condition of the rules for a personal subject is fulfilled.
The player knew the conditions in advance.
If he does not agree with my rating - he can contact the reviewer geoawareCZ@gmail.com.

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2 hours ago, Alke04 said:

The condition of the logo is: Attach an identifiable photo of yourself or your GPS device with a legible nickname.
The condition of the rules for a personal subject is fulfilled.

 

That could be a problem if the cacher is using their phone as both their GPS device and their camera since it can't take a photo of itself.

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1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

That could be a problem if the cacher is using their phone as both their GPS device and their camera since it can't take a photo of itself.

Yeah, that's why the guidelines for Earthcache logging tasks require that a photo of "a personal item" be allowed. I don't see anything that allows the CO to specify a photo of your GPS device, or any other specific item. The personal item is the choice of the finder, not the CO.

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On 6/9/2020 at 7:44 AM, Friedcacher said:

I would like to ask, if my log can be deleted, because I didn´t take a picture of my face.

I took 3 selfies, with my shoulder. From different angles.

CO deleted my log, because in his opinion it was not be able to identify me from the picture.

Is it right? Does it follow actual rules? I don´t think so.

Thank you for your answer and opinions.

 

I'd contact Geocaching HQ,  and tell them that you took 3 partial selfies without fully revealing your face,  but the CO still decided to delete your find.

Sounds like micro managing.   Did you satisfy the other requirements ?

The guidelines say, "Asking geocachers to provide a photo of themselves or a personal item to prove they visited the site.  A personal item must be an option for those who do not want to photograph themselves" as acceptable.

Sad, but you probably would have been better off just taking a pic of some other personal item than 3 partials of your own face...   

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Alke04 said:

The player did not meet the log condition. The condition of the logo is: Attach an identifiable photo of yourself or your GPS device with a legible nickname.
The condition of the rules for a personal subject is fulfilled.

 

That's not the rule.

 

This is the rule.

 

Quote

Asking geocachers to provide a photo of themselves or a personal item to prove they visited the site.  A personal item must be an option for those who do not want to photograph themselves.

 

You are adding additional conditions that are more restrictive than the photo log guideline.

 

Was this logging task reviewed by a geoaware?  Or did you add the photo requirement after photos were allowed again?

Edited by geoawareUSA9
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Thank you for your opinion. You probably don't know this case specifically. The cache with this condition was approved by the reviewer. Of course, the player also has the option to attach a GPS photo with a nickname.

HQ (reference number 1105673) has also already commented on these issues and found them to be in order (Megan communicated).

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21 hours ago, Alke04 said:

I deleted the log. The player did not meet the log condition. The condition of the logo is: Attach an identifiable photo of yourself or your GPS device with a legible nickname.
The condition of the rules for a personal subject is fulfilled.
The player knew the conditions in advance.
If he does not agree with my rating - he can contact the reviewer geoawareCZ@gmail.com.


I figured that these requirements were simply an attempt to ensure that the cacher was actually at the location - to discourage armchair logging.  Maybe the cacher’s photo didn’t meet your requirements to the letter (*), but do you doubt they were there?


(*)  Depending on what I was wearing, I think I might be able to pick out my own shoulder in an identity parade. 😉

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19 hours ago, Alke04 said:

Thank you for your opinion. You probably don't know this case specifically. The cache with this condition was approved by the reviewer. Of course, the player also has the option to attach a GPS photo with a nickname.

HQ (reference number 1105673) has also already commented on these issues and found them to be in order (Megan communicated).

 

I realize you are the CO but not accepting a log due to what you determined to be "unidentifiable" seems to me to mean unidentifiable to you.  Can you tell that the person was actually at the cache location, doing the EC lesson that you developed?  If so, isn't that the point - that they do the lesson AT the coordinates you provide (vs. doing it from the comfort of their home)?  If they were there (and the photos show recognizable features of the geology lesson as well as body parts of the finder), then it seems that they did the main purpose for what you asked of them. The main point of the EC is to learn the lesson, not just prove you were there so that the photo of the person is identifiable to you (which it appears they were, but not in the exact manner you desired).  The photo helps verify they were actually at GZ and if their photos do so, it seems they did what you asked, just not exactly as you asked.  You have that right to delete their find for not meeting your exact requirements but that doesn't seem to reflect the spirit of geocaching very well.

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Posted (edited)

I understand your words. Unfortunately, you do not know this particular situation. Players in the Czech Republic often do not even visit the place, they pass on the answers to each other. In addition, existing servers where responses to earthcache are listed. This server is already solving HQ.

It is also common for some players to take a picture of their GPS 8 times and log 8 players with one GPS in one hand. I understand that you do not know this situation outside the Czech Republic, but I encounter it commonly on my earthcaches.
Please show this images.

35c833cc-bba3-4b50-b604-2edcc61687cb.jpg

62439600-90de-44a6-891a-14e02466e010.jpg

Podvod.jpg

Edited by Rock Chalk
Reference to spoiler website removed
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6 minutes ago, Alke04 said:

I understand your words. Unfortunately, you do not know this particular situation. Players in the Czech Republic often do not even visit the place, they pass on the answers to each other. In addition, existing servers where responses to earthcache are listed - eg finar.cz. This server is already solving HQ.

It is also common for some players to take a picture of their GPS 8 times and log 8 players with one GPS in one hand. I understand that you do not know this situation outside the Czech Republic, but I encounter it commonly on my earthcaches.

 

But this particular person posted pictures.  I'm assuming that the pictures show a portion of the body at the EC location, along with elements of the geological location you brought them to. That was the initial reason brought up by the poster.  The finder of this EC didn't post multiple pictures of the GPS and have 8 people log it so this point is completely irrelevant.  As originally posted, 3 separate pictures were posted of someone's shoulder (?).  Do the pictures show anything related to the location of the earth cache?  If they do, and the shoulders are in the photographs as well, then it seems they were actually at GZ.  I find it hard to believe that someone who "cheated" would come on here to ask about a deleted log, especially if they knowingly cheated and armchair logged an EC, knowing that they would get caught.  You don't say anything about their answers being wrong or "copied" from the answer sharing site so I'm assuming the answers were good enough to meet that particular requirement and didn't appear to be copied and pasted.  

 

Do the photos show recognizable features of the posted GZ for this particular EC?  If they do, then that would appear to alleviate your concern that they may not have been at the EC site.

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Looking at the ECs found by the OP, it seems that they've been at every single GZ for all of the caches they've logged with pictures (granted, I didn't check EVERY EC logged).  I see the recognizable feature that each GZ has brought the cacher to and a photo that has some small part of them within the picture (I might have a problem with that, especially if the EC lesson entails something about measurement or physical description of the geological feature.  They've found 70 ECs in the roughly 9 years they've been caching so I see no reason for them to lie about this particular earth cache because it's plainly not about the numbers or cheating to claim a find on a place they appear to have actually visited and did the required geological lesson you set out for them. Did you even look at their profile to see if they might be serial "cheaters"?

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1 hour ago, Alke04 said:

I understand your words. Unfortunately, you do not know this particular situation. Players in the Czech Republic often do not even visit the place, they pass on the answers to each other. In addition, existing servers where responses to earthcache are listed - eg finar.cz. This server is already solving HQ.

It is also common for some players to take a picture of their GPS 8 times and log 8 players with one GPS in one hand. I understand that you do not know this situation outside the Czech Republic, but I encounter it commonly on my earthcaches.

This forum really needs a "Sad" response option. :( 

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Posted (edited)

Even this player has proven to cheat on another of my earthcaches in the past. I have to treat all players the same if I allow one player a photo where it's not recognizable and maybe it's not him - other players will want it too.

Edited by Alke04

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I want to be fair to all players. I sent a question to the responsible reviewer for comment. I will fully respect his opinion.

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26 minutes ago, Alke04 said:

Even this player has proven to cheat on another of my earthcaches in the past. I have to treat all players the same if I allow one player a photo where it's not recognizable and maybe it's not him - other players will want it too.

21 minutes ago, Alke04 said:

I want to be fair to all players. I sent a question to the responsible reviewer for comment. I will fully respect his opinion.

 

Curious, now that you know that "A personal item must be an option for those who do not want to photograph themselves" is an acceptable requirement as well, how will you know that "personal item" belongs to the finder ?    :)

You might have been better off with partial selfies....

I wouldn't be surprised if a few Reviewers already know all about it.    ;)

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The rules say I need to allow a log with a personal item. This is described in the requirements. The player did not meet these requirements. Like we said - I wrote to the reviewer and he will solve it.

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On 6/21/2020 at 3:59 PM, Alke04 said:

The player did not meet the log condition. The condition of the logo is: Attach an identifiable photo of yourself or your GPS device with a legible nickname.

 

We had to do that on an earth cache we found. A photo of ourselves, proof of the location of the cache, and our GPS device next to the cache was sent to the CO. It was cool! 

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1 hour ago, HunterandSamuel said:

 

We had to do that on an earth cache we found. A photo of ourselves, proof of the location of the cache, and our GPS device next to the cache was sent to the CO. It was cool! 

You had to provide a photo of yourselves? 

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15 hours ago, Alke04 said:

The rules say I need to allow a log with a personal item. This is described in the requirements. The player did not meet these requirements. Like we said - I wrote to the reviewer and he will solve it.

 

You said the OP cheated previously on one of your ECs.  Was this another photo issue that didn't meet your requirements or was it something else? I still find it hard to believe that a cacher who averages 8 or 9 ECs a year is willingly going to come on here to ask a question about a log deletion due to a photo requirement and is willingly cheating on a cache that would "out" them if it was discovered that it wasn't them in the photo to begin with.

 

I don't think the intent is that YOU get to determine what that personal item is; the finder gets to determine what the personal item is.  I could be wrong but it seems awfully limiting if the CO is the one that determines what exactly that personal item is to be.  If the cacher is using a phone and doesn't have a GPS, then how can they take a picture of the item they're using as their GPS if they don't want to include their face in the photo?  In this situation, you've forced them to either not log your EC or include a photo of their face that makes them identifiable.  You've limited your EC photo requirements to one of two things - either a face picture or a GPS picture with the geocaching nickname.  If they include a picture of their GPS with a nickname at some other location (because it's zoomed in so far that the background location you brought them to isn't visible), then it seems to me that you'd have to accept that photo as proof they met your photo requirement (like the very last picture you provided), even if they weren't actually at that particular GZ.  

 

I fully understand your right to delete logs that you don't believe meet the posted requirements.  I've deleted a few logs because the answers were never sent which means the main component of the EC wasn't completed.  I deleted one log because the answers were so wrong that it was pretty obvious they weren't actually at GZ (no photo included in that log either).  I'll bring this point up again, though.  What is the main purpose of the EC?  Is it the photo or is it the geological lesson?  As long as the photo shows they were at GZ and includes some manner of identification (even if it's a hand framing the geological point of reference) and they sent in the requested answer, it seems to me that the main point of the EC was completed.  If you think the photo was doctored, then that's a different issue.  I don't think that's the case here but without any photos from the OP, there's not much we can determine beyond a "they said, they said" back and forth.

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Yes - this was for a photo request. The player added only a photo of the GPS device to your Found it log.

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12 minutes ago, Alke04 said:

Yes - this was for a photo request. The player added only a photo of the GPS device to your Found it log.

 

So what were your requirements (photo related) and did the cacher send in the answers? 

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On 6/22/2020 at 6:38 PM, Alke04 said:

Thank you for your opinion. You probably don't know this case specifically. The cache with this condition was approved by the reviewer. Of course, the player also has the option to attach a GPS photo with a nickname.

HQ (reference number 1105673) has also already commented on these issues and found them to be in order (Megan communicated).

 

18 hours ago, Alke04 said:

I want to be fair to all players. I sent a question to the responsible reviewer for comment. I will fully respect his opinion.

 

@Alke04 - You are correct, I do not have all the facts on this.  Thank you for clarifying that Appeals has already reviewed this, and thank you for following up with your local reviewer.  I will not substitute my judgment for theirs - the proper parties are involved, and they do not need my help.

 

Folks, let's leave the rest of this to the reviewer and the appeals team.

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Posted (edited)

Yes, please, let's leave this rest for now. I am locking the thread. When it is resolved, I will gladly post the outcome if the EarthCache owner and the original poster wish.

Edited by Neos2

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