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SMacB

Looking for officers - Wooden Church Artefacts

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New category proposal, looking for officers.

 

Probably a few issues still to iron out, but here is my first draft proposal.
Thoughts?....

 

Description: This category is for wooden church artefacts. Objects can be entered in this category from within and around churches. We are looking for "unusual" and interesting objects, and prefer not to be a category of duplicate waymarks.

 


Expanded Description:

Baptism Fonts -
A Baptism Font serves as a receptacle for baptismal water. There are some instances of wooden fonts inside churches. We are looking for this type of object.

Wooden Font11125fcb-1b49-4f4e-9ca0-5d6fbe62daf0.jpg

Memorial Effigies -
An effigy is a representation of a specific person in the form of sculpture or some other three-dimensional medium

14th-century wooden effigy

Bench Poppyheads -
Poppyhead is a form of carving of the top of the end of a bench or a choir stall. Its name is unrelated to the poppy flower. It is derived, by way of Old French, from the Latin word puppis, which means the poop or the figurehead of a ship. In its simplest, and its most usual form, it has the appearance of a stylised fleur-de-lys. In some cases, it consists of a much more intricate carving (Ref. Wikipedia).

bf34714a-6bd9-482e-964a-f7f061780661.jpg56ed2f3b-f92e-435d-be6f-eae2450d7a82.jpg

Carved choir stalls -
The choir area is occupied by sometimes finely carved and decorated wooden seats known as choir stalls, where the clergy sit, stand or kneel during services. The choir may be furnished either with long benches (pews) or individual choir stalls. There may be several rows of seating running parallel to the walls of the church. (Ref. Wikipedia)

2ff6da26-85d6-4154-ad7b-335c5ff362f2.jpg
 

Pulpits -
A pulpit is a raised stand for preachers in a Christian church. The origin of the word is the Latin pulpitum (platform or staging). The traditional pulpit is raised well above the surrounding floor for audibility and visibility, accessed by steps, with sides coming to about waist height. (Ref. Wikipedia)

2a982df2-5bb6-419a-a3e1-94bed9768213.jpgdf83f824-a7c1-4a37-9ee7-35f9d5d8572f.jpg

Rood Screens -
The rood screen (also choir screen, chancel screen, or jubé) is a common feature in late medieval church architecture. It is typically an ornate partition between the chancel and nave, of more or less open tracery constructed of wood, stone, or wrought iron. The rood screen would originally have been surmounted by a rood loft carrying the Great Rood, a sculptural representation of the Crucifixion. (Ref. Wikipedia)

0763a3ea-9f39-42b5-86fe-d676670e935d.jpg

 

... and many others, including Carved wooden chairs, Alms boxes (Ref. Wikipedia), Parish chests, Lecterns. So long as they are interesting.

 

Instructions for Posting a Wooden Church Artefacts Waymark:

Please research your artefact and provide any historical information you can find to create a good waymark. If making a permitted quote, which must be placed within quotation marks [blockquote is also acceptable], please give credit to the originator of the text.
At least three descriptive sentences regarding the object written by the Waymarker, must be included. Please try to find some additional supporting documentation if possible. Only one listing per item is allowed (we do not want 20 waymarks for each individual poppyhead, for instance)

Coordinates should be taken from the entrance of the church, or approximate location within the building if possible.

At the very least, two photos should be added, that you have taken yourself - one close up of the object and another of the general area with the object in view if possible. Additional photos are always a bonus.

Any other unusual wooden object will be considered by the officers. Their decision will be final.
We will NOT accept objects which have their own category, such as churches, crosses, windows, bells, towers, clocks, sundials etc. (exceptions may be made on a case by case basis, but these items will have to be exceptional)  
Given that Waymarking is an activity enjoyed globally, we will happily accept Waymarks in any language, as long as an English translation is included for, at least, the Long Description.

Naming your Waymark:

Include the type of structure (Font, Pulpit, etc), and name of the church in the title, as well as city or locality and state/province/department [Country is optional] as in :
    e.g. Font - Holy Church - Town, County / State
 

Instructions for Visiting a Waymark in this Category:

Please supply an original picture when visiting this waymark, and write something about your visit.
 

Category Settings:

Waymarks can be added to this category
New waymarks of this category are reviewed by the category group prior to being published
Category is visible in the directory
 

Variables:

Approximate Age of Artefact
Relevant Website

 

 


   

 

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You have caught my attention.  Well done so far.

 

What if the object can only be seen during times of worship, when photography could be awkward?

 

 

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8 hours ago, elyob said:

You have caught my attention.  Well done so far.

 

What if the object can only be seen during times of worship, when photography could be awkward?

 

 

This is interesting so far - I am in agreement with elyob with his concern, also, would historical wooden pews count?  I know that in Williamsburg, in Boston, and in Galena, Illinois, churches have pews marked where famous people either owned or sat? 

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I am not charmed by this idea, despite the great draft work. It's just like... fine... next, shall we create a category for church stone artefacts, and then for church glass artefacts and so on...? 

 

I suppose each church is filled with dozens of wooden objects. I will have nightmares with the idea of seeing all these waymarked. Pages and pages of Waymarks when browsing what's there to see in a given town. 

 

And how will people define "unusual" and specially "interesting"?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Torgut said:

I am not charmed by this idea, despite the great draft work. It's just like... fine... next, shall we create a category for church stone artefacts, and then for church glass artefacts and so on...? 

 

I suppose each church is filled with dozens of wooden objects. I will have nightmares with the idea of seeing all these waymarked. Pages and pages of Waymarks when browsing what's there to see in a given town. 

 

And how will people define "unusual" and specially "interesting"?

 

 

There is already a category for stone church artefacts so one less thing to worry about. The church I attend has dozens of wooden pews which aren't interesting or comfortable. The pulpit is of wood but nothing to write home about. And it's locked outside services so no photographic opportunities anyway. I do have a stone church artefact but as I recall it was outside.

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17 hours ago, elyob said:

 

What if the object can only be seen during times of worship, when photography could be awkward?

 

Hi elyob,

Request for objects to be on permanent display only added to description. Photography during services discouraged.

 

8 hours ago, iconions said:

This is interesting so far - I am in agreement with elyob with his concern, also, would historical wooden pews count?  I know that in Williamsburg, in Boston, and in Galena, Illinois, churches have pews marked where famous people either owned or sat? 

Hi iconions,

Could they possibly go into signs of history, or similar historical waymark category? - I'd like to hear more about these pews you know of, so that I can find the appropriate phrase for

the posting requirements. Thanks !

 

8 hours ago, Torgut said:

I am not charmed by this idea, despite the great draft work. It's just like... fine... next, shall we create a category for church stone artefacts, and then for church glass artefacts and so on...? 

 

I suppose each church is filled with dozens of wooden objects. I will have nightmares with the idea of seeing all these waymarked. Pages and pages of Waymarks when browsing what's there to see in a given town. 

 

And how will people define "unusual" and specially "interesting"?

Hi Torgut,

There is already a category for stone church artefacts. Glass artefacts would,  in most instances, be covered by stained glass windows - others I have seen (had I been able to find out more about them to post a WM) would have probably fitted into one of the art categories.

 

I define unusual as - remarkable or interesting because different from or better than others.

and interesting as - arousing curiosity or interest; holding or catching the attention.

 

4 hours ago, Tuena said:

There is already a category for stone church artefacts so one less thing to worry about. The church I attend has dozens of wooden pews which aren't interesting or comfortable. The pulpit is of wood but nothing to write home about. And it's locked outside services so no photographic opportunities anyway. I do have a stone church artefact but as I recall it was outside.

Hi Tuena,

I am sorry to hear about your uncomfortable pews. And for your hours of discomfort thay are not the sort of wooden artefact we are looking for. Sorry. :(

_________________________

I have come to learn over my years Waymarking, that not everything is waymarkable - despite my efforts to sometimes shoe-horn things in, and getting declined (you know who I am...). However, I have seen wooden artefacts in churches that are interesting enough for me to photograph and go home and do some (limited) research. If you have seen one of that type of object, it is probably something we are looking to include. Then, if it has some sort of historical background we'd love to hear that too.

 

So, just some assembled thoughts of mine regarding the comments so far. I do want this to be a category that is interesting, and not full of mundane objects (is that not what all category leaders are hoping for?), but I also want it to be an opportunity to document those things with historic interest that are often overlooked.

There are categories that already exist, that I, personally, have liittle interest in going out to find. I will still waymark it if I happen across one. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised to find that it actually has an interesting past, and it has added to my knowledge of a place.

 

Regards

Steve

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Posted (edited)

I'm interested.

Will there be any restriction on the number of Waymarks, eg only one row of pews, and not every row? (And Poppyhead etc)

 

(Pews are not meant to be comfortable, don't want the congregation falling asleep during those long sermons!)

Edited by Bear and Ragged
clarification
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8 minutes ago, Bear and Ragged said:

 

Will there be any restriction on the number of Waymarks, eg only one row of pews, and not every row? (And Poppyhead etc)

 

(Pews are not meant to be comfortable, don't want the congregation falling asleep during those long sermons!)

HI Bear and Ragged,

I thought I had that covered here:

On 5/31/2020 at 9:32 AM, SMacB said:

 

 Only one listing per item is allowed (we do not want 20 waymarks for each individual poppyhead, for instance)

 

I'll change that to include pews. I guess you could include every row as a single waymark. Personally, I'd probably be Waymarking Victorian box pews, normal bench pews would on most occasions be included within the poppyhead waymark - although in a church local to me there is a medieval game of Nine Men's Morris carved into the pew (hidden behind a pillar). I would count that as a wooden artefact as it is interesting, and not something you would likely know about on a passing visit.

 

As an aside, and to everyone in the forum - I want to be able to include ALL religions. As it stands my description is somewhat Christian-centric. I would like to include other wooden artefacts that can be included in the category. Anyone have any pictures I could use? (credit will be given). There may also be some things that some religions may consider taboo to photograph (I do not know of any, but that is outside my knowledgebase) - those should be added to the description.

 

Regards

Steve

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34 minutes ago, SMacB said:

As an aside, and to everyone in the forum - I want to be able to include ALL religions. As it stands my description is somewhat Christian-centric.

 

"Place of worship" rather than Church?

 

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Posted (edited)

Wooden Place Of Worship Artefacts? Bit of a mouthfull, although I get what you're saying. 

 

Wooden Religious Artefacts, perhaps? But I do want to limit it to within, or at least on the grounds of, the 'place of worship'.

 

regards

Steve

Edited by SMacB
typo
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I currently don't have any pictures of these famous pews - I know they exist from previous travels.  With the Covid lockdown, I'm not going to be able to get a picture of the Grant pew in Galena on my current trip. 

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SMacB, although I don't agree with the category I still want to thank you and congratulate for the great work and effort put on it :-)

" But I do want to limit it to within, or at least on the grounds of, the 'place of worship'."

 

Oh so no museum exhibits? Doesn't sound fair. A church wooden artefact is a church wooden artefact. 

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Hi iconions,

I looked up the Grant pew, and I'm in two minds about it. Certainly an important historical figure. I think it would be worth pencilling in, but I don't like the idea of going down the route of pews dedicated to anyone and everyone.

 

20 hours ago, Torgut said:

 

I suppose each church is filled with dozens of wooden objects. I will have nightmares with the idea of seeing all these waymarked. Pages and pages of Waymarks when browsing what's there to see in a given town. 

4 hours ago, Torgut said:

Oh so no museum exhibits? Doesn't sound fair. A church wooden artefact is a church wooden artefact. 

 

Hi Torgut,

I am a little conflicted here.. you don't want lots of these waymarks all around the place, but it's ok if museums are included.

 

In general, of the Stone Church Artefacts I have waymarked, there are about 3 per church - font, piscinas/sedilia, and another (sometimes a reredos, or grave slab, or a particularly nice stone monument). On rare ocasions there are all of these, other times only one.

There are 13 museum categories, three of which are most likely to have some wooden artefacts from churches. But they could hold many different items in their collection, something that I perceive as exactly the thing that would give you nightmares :o

Of course, there are often lots of other stone monuments and memorials around church walls that could be waymarked as stone artefacts, but often they can fit into a different category, possibly Coats of Arms, or Citizen Memorials - or maybe none, as they don't present themselves as waymarkable material (to me at least). Likewise this is how I perceive the wooden artefact category. For example, in one church I came across a preserved medieval Cello. Yes, it is made of wood... but it is a musical instrument - Musical Instruments category then. This is, of course, no indication as to how I would treat such a submission to Wooden Church Artefacts. (Yes, I know this category doesn't exist yet. But I don't think I would have added it.... or maybe I would have; who knows? What day of the week was it...?) :unsure:

 

At the end of the day, everyone waymarks in their own unique way. This category won't please everyone. I have put it to the forum to iron out as many issues as I can, but I don't think I will be able to include everything without making it a bloated all-inclusive category which becomes a burdonsome chore rather than something to enjoy managing, and seeing interesting wooden things from churches...

 

Regards

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

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Fair answer - a pew dedicated to an an average Joe should go into Citizens' Memorials.  I wasn't sure if one dedicated to an important enough figure would necessitate inclusion.

 

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Hm. What an interesting idea. I'm sure there is hidden history with many wooden artifacts and would be cool to document them. 

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We often find wooden artefacts in churches, which have a history, which have a decoration of any beauty, which have something to tell, why could they not have their own category so that you can admire them.

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20 hours ago, iconions said:

Fair answer - a pew dedicated to an an average Joe should go into Citizens' Memorials.  I wasn't sure if one dedicated to an important enough figure would necessitate inclusion.

 

 

Could be a little subjective, maybe along the Grave of a Famous Person category. If there is plenty of online information that makes them well known -fine.

Otherwise, as you say, Citizens Memorial?

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1 hour ago, Bear and Ragged said:

 

Could be a little subjective, maybe along the Grave of a Famous Person category. If there is plenty of online information that makes them well known -fine.

Otherwise, as you say, Citizens Memorial?

Again, no hard feelings either way - those pews, in my experience, haven't been that common.  I just thought it might be enough of a rarity for inclusion...

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Posted (edited)

Steve,

This is only Tuesday yet it seems I'm quite late to the party...:(

I believe that we've experienced a short interlocution in the (somewhat) recent past, though I cannot remember the exact subject. I'd bet the farm, though, that it revolved around churches, most likely church architecture.

 

I, too, am intrigued by your proposal. It manages to encompass two of my favourite Waymarking interests: churches and history/heritage. Don't get me wrong here - my interest in churches is purely an architectural and heritage one (or two, as the case may be).

 

Wooden church/religious artefacts - objects I've encountered countless times in my travels yet have, alas, been unable to bring forth the mental wherewithal to interpret as being/becoming a potential Waymarking category. For their potential artistic merit, their historical merit, and whatever other merits they may hold, I consider them worthy of considerable consideration by the Waymarking Community as potential additions.

 

Go for it! You may count me in as a potential officer in your estimable category (and, no Steve, if you don't remember me, I have submitted considerably more than 33 Waymarks.)

 

After all the above discussion, please post a link to a (semi) finalized proposal and I'll have a peek.

Keith

Edited by ScroogieII

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Hi Guys,

I'm still listening..... thanks for the comments.

 

On 6/2/2020 at 12:58 AM, bluesnote said:

Hm. What an interesting idea. I'm sure there is hidden history with many wooden artifacts and would be cool to document them. 

19 hours ago, pmaupin said:

We often find wooden artefacts in churches, which have a history, which have a decoration of any beauty, which have something to tell, why could they not have their own category so that you can admire them.

Hi bluesnote / pmaupin,

Thanks. Those were exactly my thoughts for creating the category.

 

10 hours ago, Bear and Ragged said:

 

Could be a little subjective, maybe along the Grave of a Famous Person category. If there is plenty of online information that makes them well known -fine.

Otherwise, as you say, Citizens Memorial?

Hi iconions / Bear and Ragged,

This is one of the issues with which I am struggling. How famous is 'famous'?

  • Ulysses S. Grant, pretty famous. I'd hazard a guess that very many people worldwide would have heard of this Civil War General, and 10th US President.
  • Paul Revere. Is this silversmith and US patriot as well known worldwide? He had a US stamp made, and Longfellow even wrote a poem about his Ride. In the US, I'd guess pretty well known, especially around the Boston area.
  • How about Dr John Revere? This is Paul's son. Buried in Granary Burying Ground, Boston, MA. Is he famous by deed, or by familial association?
  • Pop quiz - Without Googling them (other search engines are available), how famous are these people? Israel Bissell, Sybil Ludington, Jack Jouett, Thomas Paine.

Should I limit the fame and noteriety to the fact that they MUST have a Wikipedia page about them? Obviously the get-around is to submit the pews as just that, pews. i.e. "Pews of church built 1800, installed in 1845 at a cost of $30 by the then rector." - taken from, say, local church history page. Then, "Incidentally, Joe Blog, a local celebrity, sat here on Sundays. There is a plaque which reads [Inscription]. He was a bit of a joker, well known for his impressions if the Vicar."

 

Don't get me wrong. I'n not against. Just trying to define parameters.

 

8 hours ago, ScroogieII said:

Steve,

This is only Tuesday yet it seems I'm quite late to the party...:(

I believe that we've experienced a short interlocution in the (somewhat) recent past, though I cannot remember the exact subject. I'd bet the farm, though, that it revolved around churches, most likely church architecture.

 

I, too, am intrigued by your proposal. It manages to encompass two of my favourite Waymarking interests: churches and history/heritage. Don't get me wrong here - my interest in churches is purely an architectural and heritage one (or two, as the case may be).

 

Wooden church/religious artefacts - objects I've encountered countless times in my travels yet have, alas, been unable to bring forth the mental wherewithal to interpret as being/becoming a potential Waymarking category. For their potential artistic merit, their historical merit, and whatever other merits they may hold, I consider them worthy of considerable consideration by the Waymarking Community as potential additions.

 

Go for it! You may count me in as a potential officer in your estimable category (and, no Steve, if you don't remember me, I have submitted considerably more than 33 Waymarks.)

 

After all the above discussion, please post a link to a (semi) finalized proposal and I'll have a peek.

Keith

Hi Keith,

Yes, I do know who you are. Welcome to the show. I think this link should work https://www.Waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=2d9a6324-8cc6-460a-a3bd-753fe8cdb6ad&exp=True . I too visit churches for the same reasons. To my shame, I haven't actually taken that many photos of wooden artefacts - no category, no need to. :rolleyes:

 

Regards

Steve

 

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I have made some tweaks to the category.

 

Regards

Steve

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No additional comments then.....

Category has been submitted to Peer Review.

 

Regards

Steve

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I know I'm late, but what about altars? There are some churches, that have an outstanding wooden altar, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefermarkt_Altarpiece. Everybody visiting this church does it because of this stunning altar.

 

In general I have a problem with the term "artifact". What exactly is an artifact in a chuch? Or (in other words) why is a pulpit considered to be an artifact, and (if!) an altar is not?

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25 minutes ago, PISA-caching said:

I know I'm late, but what about altars? There are some churches, that have an outstanding wooden altar, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefermarkt_Altarpiece. Everybody visiting this church does it because of this stunning altar.

 

In general I have a problem with the term "artifact". What exactly is an artifact in a chuch? Or (in other words) why is a pulpit considered to be an artifact, and (if!) an altar is not?

Hi PISA-caching,

To be honest this is less a case of exclusion, and more a case of 'I didn't think to include it as an example'. It certainly looks marvelous.

There are many items that could be included in the category. I just listed a few examples that I could think of to give a general idea. If you would consider travelling a substantial distance to see an object, it is quite likely something we would like to see in this category. Interesting, unusual, noteworthy.

 

I used the term 'artefact' for the definition - an object made by a human being, typically one of cultural or historical interest.

 

Regards

Steve

 

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Posted (edited)

The problem of trying to be broad, but not so broad anything and everything is included!  :laughing:

 

That Alter should definitely be included! :)

Edited by Bear and Ragged

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Bear and Ragged said:

That Alter should definitely be included! :)

When the category is unlocked, consider it added to the examples.

 

NOTE: From vote comments so far - inclusuon of Holy Water Stoups in Fonts / Stoups example at beginning of example.

 

Regards

Steve

Edited by SMacB
additional comment to avoid making 2 posts

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S, with just about a day to go, here is where I'm at with the description so far:

 

"Below are examples of some of the type of object we are looking for -

Baptism Fonts & Holy Water Stoups -
A Baptism Font serves as a receptacle for baptismal water. There are some instances of wooden fonts inside churches. We are looking for this type of object.

Wooden Font

A holy water font or stoup is a vessel containing holy water which is generally placed near the entrance of a church. In the Roman Catholic Church it is also called a bénitier. It is often placed at the base of a cruxifix or religious representation. It is used in the Catholic Church, Anglican Churches, and some Lutheran churches to make the Sign of the Cross using the holy water upon entrance of the church. (Ref. Wikipedia)

Holy Water Stoup

Memorial Effigies -
An effigy is a representation of a specific person in the form of sculpture or some other three-dimensional medium

14th-century wooden effigy

Bench Poppyheads -
Poppyhead is a form of carving of the top of the end of a bench or a choir stall. Its name is unrelated to the poppy flower. It is derived, by way of Old French, from the Latin word puppis, which means the poop or the figurehead of a ship. In its simplest, and its most usual form, it has the appearance of a stylised fleur-de-lys. In some cases, it consists of a much more intricate carving (Ref. Wikipedia).

Carved PoppyheadCarved Poppyhead

Carved choir stalls -
The choir area is occupied by sometimes finely carved and decorated wooden seats known as choir stalls, where the clergy sit, stand or kneel during services. The choir may be furnished either with long benches (pews) or individual choir stalls. There may be several rows of seating running parallel to the walls of the church. (Ref. Wikipedia)

Choir Stalls
 

Pulpits -
A pulpit is a raised stand for preachers in a Christian church. The origin of the word is the Latin pulpitum (platform or staging). The traditional pulpit is raised well above the surrounding floor for audibility and visibility, accessed by steps, with sides coming to about waist height. (Ref. Wikipedia)

PulpitJacobean Pulpit

Rood Screens and Dados -
The rood screen (also choir screen, chancel screen, or jubé) is a common feature in late medieval church architecture. It is typically an ornate partition between the chancel and nave, of more or less open tracery constructed of wood, stone, or wrought iron. The rood screen would originally have been surmounted by a rood loft carrying the Great Rood, a sculptural representation of the Crucifixion. (Ref. Wikipedia)

Dado fromn a Rood Screen

 

... and many others, including Carved Altars, Wooden chairs, Alms boxes (Ref. Wikipedia), Parish chests, Lecterns. So long as they are interesting.
Wooden artefacts from other places of worship i.e. Buddhist temples, Hindu temples, Mosques, Synagogues, Gurdwaras, etc. will be accepted, so long as they meet the category criteria.      

What we are NOT looking for are mundane, everyday, objects. i.e. pews, seating, wooden units etc. that are modern and / or have no historical interest.

32d69b0f-cb08-4cc9-bce7-1ac57e786399.jpg7d9dae9f-0bae-4a89-9158-45d86a9f5c3d.jpgAbsoluteley no wooden pasta strainers of Pastafarianism!

Plain wooden objects of significant historical interest, will be accepted, but must be supported with doccumentary evidence such as a Wikipedia entry, or dedicated web page (for example the Grant pew, Gallena, Il.)

We will NOT accept objects which have their own category, such as Churches, Lych gates, Crosses, Windows, Bells, Towers, Clocks, Sundials etc. (exceptions may be made on a case by case basis, but these items will have to be exceptional"

 

Also I will add optional variable for times the location is open.

 

Regards

Steve

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Will Lychgates and Outdoor Stations of the Cross be added to the 'usually' excluded list?

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OK! :D Thanks everyone....

Going live soon. Just trying to figure how to make the requested changes first.

 

Regards

Steve

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Thanks!

I cobbled together an icon here, stolen from stone church artefacts, an turned to wood.

WoodChurchArtefacts.gif

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