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Papaya101

Filling In Gaps

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Posted (edited)

There’s a geocacher in my hometown who’s hidden a TON of geocaches, but doesn’t have that many finds (like myself, I admit). The wording they often use in the descriptions of the (sorta crappy) caches is “filling in gaps”. I am opposed to the idea of using “filling in gaps” as the reasoning for hiding geocaches, at least in this case, because while it makes for more finds/hides, very little effort goes into each geocache, making for a more underwhelming experience. Additionally, “filling in” those gaps prevents other geocachers from hiding better quality caches in those spaces. That being said, I could see the argument for the other side. You get to spend more time overall geocaching, and your account looks better touting a higher number of finds/hides. What do y’all think?

Edited by Papaya101
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14 minutes ago, Papaya101 said:

There’s a geocacher in my hometown who’s hidden a TON of geocaches, but doesn’t have that many finds (like myself, I admit). The wording they often use in the descriptions of the (sorta crappy) caches is “filling in gaps”. I am opposed to the idea of using “filling in gaps” as the reasoning for hiding geocaches, at least in this case, because while it makes for more finds/hides, very little effort goes into each geocache, making for a more underwhelming experience. Additionally, “filling in” those gaps prevents other geocachers from hiding better quality caches in those spaces. That being said, I could see the argument for the other side. You get to spend more time overall geocaching, and your account looks better touting a higher number of finds/hides. What do y’all think?

Do you want those spots? If you get them, your cache better be really good! 

I was not aware that my lack of a high find count is a criteria for my account looking good. I better go log a boatload of caches!    

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Papaya101 said:

 I am opposed to the idea of using “filling in gaps” as the reasoning for hiding geocaches, at least in this case, because while it makes for more finds/hides, very little effort goes into each geocache, making for a more underwhelming experience. Additionally, “filling in” those gaps prevents other geocachers from hiding better quality caches in those spaces

I 100% agree.

 

2 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I better go log a boatload of caches! 

Me too! And make sure the logs consist of a whole "found";).

Edited by TmdAndGG
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22 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I was not aware that my lack of a high find count is a criteria for my account looking good. I better go log a boatload of caches!    

Oh I don’t think having a high find count is important for your account looking good, I was just trying to find a counter argument to make myself look fair. I guess the fact that my counter argument didn’t hold up just proves my point further B)

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1 hour ago, Papaya101 said:

What do y’all think?

One of my favorite puzzle finds was one that was based on filling in the gaps. The intended solution technique was to find a gap within the stated distance of the posted coordinates, to identify a location where the cache could be hidden, where the stated terrain rating matched the location. I ended up finding a spot that the CO did not intend, that was just barely inside the fence for the property. When that didn't pan out, I checked another location that matched the criteria, and found the cache.

 

I thought it was a pretty clever puzzle concept. It became more difficult as time went on, and other caches were archived, opening up additional gaps.

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48 minutes ago, Papaya101 said:

 I am opposed to the idea of using “filling in gaps” as the reasoning for hiding geocaches, at least in this case, because while it makes for more finds/hides, very little effort goes into each geocache, making for a more underwhelming experience.

Additionally, “filling in” those gaps prevents other geocachers from hiding better quality caches in those spaces.

That being said, I could see the argument for the other side. You get to spend more time overall geocaching, and your account looks better touting a higher number of finds/hides. What do y’all think?

 

Me too.   The worst (for me) is the numerous caches "Placed on the way to..." the awesome view at the cache I'm actually headed to.

Nothing inspiring, little thought in placing, just something "along the way", as if that great view isn't gonna be enough.

Sometimes I just skip by 'em.  Sometimes I'll log a couple along the way, but not online. 

Either should let the CO know how much I appreciate them...   :)   Visiting areas, sometimes I'll get an email, locals are used to me now.

 

Oh if that were only true...      :D

Most times we see this, the others "contribution" to the hobby is the same tape-wrapped pill bottles they're seeing on either side

Fortunately we don't see this "fill in" behavior as much in woods or distant hides, and we now stay clear of towns when possible.

I look at my "account" when someone else mentions it, never remembering "smiley count", or anything else in stats.  

 

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40 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:
59 minutes ago, Papaya101 said:

 I am opposed to the idea of using “filling in gaps” as the reasoning for hiding geocaches, at least in this case, because while it makes for more finds/hides, very little effort goes into each geocache, making for a more underwhelming experience. Additionally, “filling in” those gaps prevents other geocachers from hiding better quality caches in those spaces

I 100% agree.

 

I also 100% agree.  These types of hiders can also change the culture of an area, and make it all about numbers. Especially if the "filling the gaps" guy is keen on caching with other cachers, and influencing them.  

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1 minute ago, L0ne.R said:

These types of hiders can also change the culture of an area, and make it all about numbers.

Especially if the "filling the gaps" guy is keen on caching with other cachers, and influencing them.  

 

We've seen a few areas where the majority of folks change their style of play, and now are only interested in numbers. 

There's nothing dark about that...   We simply don't go there  (because most caches are low D/T) unless there's interest in a particular cache.

They aren't ruining anything, just playing this hobby in a different way than we do.   :)

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45 minutes ago, Papaya101 said:

Oh I don’t think having a high find count is important for your account looking good, I was just trying to find a counter argument to make myself look fair. I guess the fact that my counter argument didn’t hold up just proves my point further B)

I totally understand!

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Posted (edited)

Filling in gaps just to fill in gaps isn't something I do as a hider or as a finder most of the time (occasionally I will find a few if the mood strikes me or as a "filler" to get me closer to a personal benchmark cache) but I'm not going to say that they can't do it.  I would prefer they don't but that's about as demanding as I'm going to get.  I will say that I have found a few "fill in the gap" caches that have been well done (one on the way to Beverly comes to mind immediately) but they are, like you describe, predominantly just bland caches.  I used to find them when I first started but the longer I cached, the less I found them worth the time to stop and pay a visit.  

 

Like niraD, there's a similar puzzle along a rails to trails north of me but I've never made the trip up to try it.

Edited by coachstahly

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Personally I had to find about 800 caches before I felt even qualified to place my first cache. And even then, I was still inexperienced, placing a cache, which later with more experience I came to recognise was a very mundane hide. Now archived, but not because it was boring, but because it kept going missing. I was suspicious of bird muggles though, rather then human muggles. At least though, I was experienced enough by then to take a set of accurate coordinates.

The hiders that most annoy me are those with no finds. Bad coordinates and won't take any advice.

 

How about this for a gap cache. Hidden in a gap among rocks in Iceland. I loved this concept. There was a gap and it was filled.

Cache.jpg

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19 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

How about this for a gap cache. Hidden in a gap among rocks in Iceland. I loved this concept. There was a gap and it was filled.

 

I admit, I like when cachers fill THOSE gaps. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

Personally I had to find about 800 caches before I felt even qualified to place my first cache. And even then, I was still inexperienced, placing a cache, which later with more experience I came to recognise was a very mundane hide. Now archived, but not because it was boring, but because it kept going missing. I was suspicious of bird muggles though, rather then human muggles. At least though, I was experienced enough by then to take a set of accurate coordinates.

The hiders that most annoy me are those with no finds. Bad coordinates and won't take any advice.

 

It took me almost five years to reach 800 finds and for that milestone I picked a remote D2/T4 cache on Brokenback Range some 100km from home. By then I'd placed 32 caches, all bushland hides with a good spread of traditionals, multis, mysteries and one EarthCache. I placed my first hide after 21 finds spread over three months, a 1.5/1/5 traditional in a nearby reserve that was well received even though it didn't get any FPs from its 53 finds. I archived it a couple of years later when a tree fell right on top of the hiding place, but I learnt a lot from that first hide. We all have to start somewhere. I still have that cache amongst my memorabilia:

 

20200429_123757.jpg.80cc24b3a264b34489e263fa4e22093c.jpg

 

I'm probably the antithesis of a numbers cacher (1100 and something finds after seven years). According to my stats page, my "best" day was 22 finds while attending the 2018 OzGeomuster mega. The thing I remember most about that day was the people I kept bumping into as I made my way around the loop of geoart caches that had been placed for the mega. That's been the closest I've come to doing a power trail and I have no desire to better that score. My typical caching day involves targeting at most half a dozen caches and often I'll travel long distances just to attempt one cache that's of particular interest.

 

But there are some who enjoy trying to get as many finds in a day as they can and I don't begrudge them that aspect of the game. In the wide-open hinterland here, there's plenty of room for all manner of hides. But a cache should be well thought out and serve a purpose, not just plonked down to fill a gap in the map. I'm a firm believer in that quote from briansnat:

Quote

"When you go to hide a geocache, think of the reason you are bringing people to that spot. If the only reason is for the geocache, then find a better spot."

Right from my very first hide, that's always been foremost in my thoughts.

Edited by barefootjeff
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2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

They aren't ruining anything, just playing this hobby in a different way than we do. 

Yep!  I tend to stay in my own lane and not tell people how to play the game, as long as the Listings are compliant with the Guidelines, which act as sort of a guardrail, so things don't veer off and go plunging off a cliff.

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Obviously some people like those caches otherwise why would they hide them there. If they aren't interesting to you put them on your ignore list. I'm not a big fan of certain types of puzzles but some people love themes they are a part of the game. This game allows you to play it in any way you choose. 

 

You can not find them all.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Papaya101 said:

There’s a geocacher in my hometown who’s hidden a TON of geocaches, but doesn’t have that many finds (like myself, I admit). The wording they often use in the descriptions of the (sorta crappy) caches is “filling in gaps”.

Wouldn't have been quite so bad if most of the early ones he placed hadn't been located using a 1:100,000 map and a ruler <_<

Yeah, it's me.  How you doin'? <g>

 

Agree on the space fillers.  Not that my early caches were too spectacular either, but there was at least a theme to them and an attempt to come up with some creative hides. 

 

It was unfortunate that a 'space filler' along 'the Diagonal' (you know which one) probably displaced one you had already prepared, but that's something that happens more often than any of us realize in tight urban situations.  That said, I think that's the fourth cache on that old rolling hardware.  Would be kind of strange if there wasn't one.

Edited by ecanderson
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10 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Wouldn't have been quite so bad if most of the early ones he placed hadn't been located using a 1:100,000 map and a ruler <_<

Yeah, it's me.  How you doin'? <g>

 

Agree on the space fillers.  Not that my early caches were too spectacular either, but there was at least a theme to them and an attempt to come up with some creative hides. 

 

It was unfortunate that a 'space filler' along 'the Diagonal' (you know which one) probably displaced one you had already prepared, but that's something that happens more often than any of us realize in tight urban situations.  That said, I think that's the fourth cache on that old rolling hardware.  Would be kind of strange if there wasn't one.

Yeah you know what I’m talking about. (Pretty good, how bout you?) At least with all those summer concerts at that location, it’s got high odds of getting muggled... not that I would ever wish that on a geocache... 

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I don't judge COs for their reasons for planting a cache. Object if the cache is low quality, sure, but don't complain just because the CO's motives aren't pure enough for you.

 

But, above all, talk to the CO. That will be much more fruitful in many ways than talking about it here.

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12 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Not that my early caches were too spectacular either, but there was at least a theme to them and an attempt to come up with some creative hides. 

 

This. 

 

It makes for a nicer all-round pastime for a greater number of people--those who are in it for the numbers and don't care about the container or the location, and those who play for a more enjoyable experience--when caches are placed with some thought beyond "because there's an empty space between caches.   

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