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vulture1957

new ISS goal

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Posted (edited)

This is mainly a question for 8Nuts and Max&99, but others may be interested.

 

I love the ISS Sightings category. I keep track of visible passes and look for waymarkers that don't have that grid square filled and try to get them to play.

 

Max&99 and I are only like 10 miles away from each other, and we both look for ISS Sighting. But we can't both make the same waymark  Or so I thought!

 

8Nuts was working on a sighting last year from Texas to France. It was the same pass, ascending in Texas, going full north then descending over western Europe.

 

There is a possibility that Max&99 could see the ISS (they are more northerly than me) and then I could see it just as it comes back on the next orbit, but I would be seeing it before it crosses where Max&99 saw it. Same pass! And, if it was SE of us on the second sighting, it's possible that 8Nuts could also see it.

 

Now I have to do some real homework on figuring out what day this might happen.

 

Edit: no chance for it here in Oklahoma till the end of the year, with info as of today. But when the ISS changes it's orbit, things change. So I'll keep looking.

Edited by vulture1957
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here's what I'm talking about, other than the ISS doesn't get over 45°.

Date Brightness Start Highest point End Pass type
(mag) Time Alt. Az. Time Alt. Az. Time Alt. Az.
30 Mar -0.9 21:46:30 10° N 21:46:55 11° N 21:46:55 11° N visible
01 Apr -1.6 21:47:08 10° NNW 21:48:47 20° N 21:48:47 20° N visible
02 Apr -1.7 21:00:03 10° NNW 21:02:15 16° NNE 21:03:16 14° NE visible
02 Apr -0.3 22:36:00 10° NW 22:36:14 12° NW 22:36:14 12° NW visible

 

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Hey, would this work for one person to do BOTH sightings? They would be more than one minute of flight time between them.

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9 minutes ago, vulture1957 said:

Hey, would this work for one person to do BOTH sightings? They would be more than one minute of flight time between them.

 

That's an interesting thought. So, if I can catch consecutive passes I get the prize?

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3 hours ago, vulture1957 said:

There is a possibility that Max&99 could see the ISS (they are more northerly than me) and then I could see it just as it comes back on the next orbit, but I would be seeing it before it crosses where Max&99 saw it. Same pass! And, if it was SE of us on the second sighting, it's possible that 8Nuts could also see it.

Wouldyoubelieve that idea has also crossed my mind?

Sure would be fun!

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Is there any reason that the experiment does not officially qualify?

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55 minutes ago, elyob said:

Is there any reason that the experiment does not officially qualify?

I think it's a fascinating concept. My brain just hasn't figured it all out yet.  Off the top of my head I can't see a reason why it would not be allowed if the opportunity presented itself. A shared pass almost 90 minutes apart sure would stand out! 

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1 minute ago, ScroogieII said:

The Nutty Octagonal Gosling Herder would be the one to ask, no?

 

 

Correct.

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My first attempt at this category years ago was a nearly full orbit.  It was denied.

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51 minutes ago, elyob said:

My first attempt at this category years ago was a nearly full orbit.  It was denied.

 

That's right - stomp all over our dreams. :(

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55 minutes ago, elyob said:

My first attempt at this category years ago was a nearly full orbit.  It was denied.

Do you remember the reason?

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32 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Do you remember the reason?

I don't recall.  Because it was my first attempt, I suspect there were many issues.

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1 hour ago, elyob said:

I don't recall.  Because it was my first attempt, I suspect there were many issues.

Understandable.

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Max wants to know if he can partner with himself for an ISS pass? Hit the freeway, drive for an hour, and view the ISS again on the same pass.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Max wants to know if he can partner with himself for an ISS pass? Hit the freeway, drive for an hour, and view the ISS again on the same pass.

 

"Participants need to be at least one minute of ISS travel time (293 miles or 472 km) apart"

Gotta figure out which make of car currently available on the open market might be able to attain these numbers. Off the top of my head, NHRA Top Fuelers and Funny Cars (top speed ~ 300MPH) might do the trick, but they generally only carry enough fuel for a quarter to a half mile. All the necessary refueling stops might cut into their average speed somewhat. :)

Edited by ScroogieII

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Posted (edited)

I'm sitting here giggling at the moment. That has to be the MOST HYPERBOLIC hyperbole I've ever written (or spoken, for that matter).

Edited by ScroogieII

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, ScroogieII said:

 

"Participants need to be at least one minute of ISS travel time (293 miles or 472 km) apart"

Gotta figure out which make of car currently available on the open market might be able to attain these numbers. Off the top of my head, NHRA Top Fuelers and Funny Cars (top speed ~ 300MPH) might do the trick, but they generally only carry enough fuel for a quarter to a half mile. All the necessary refueling stops might cut into their average speed somewhat. :)

I don't get it. Participant 2 would be approximately 89 minutes flight time  from Participant 1.

Player 1 sees the USA from Guthrie, OK at 0730. Player 2 sees the ISS from Bethany, OK a 30 minute drive south, almost 90 minutes later.

Edited by Max and 99

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Posted (edited)

I reiterate:

"Participants need to be at least one minute of ISS travel time (293 miles or 472 km) apart"

Still, you've now introduced a lesser drive time of 30 minutes. My Top Fueler would STILL require "a few" fuel stops during that 30 minute drive.

If you can drive 293 miles in 30 minutes, more power (which you'll evidently need) to you.

I'm just quoting the requirements. Beyond that, what do I know?

 

If you've found a loophole, or a wormhole, go for it!!!

 

Edited by ScroogieII

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Participant 2 would be approximately 89 minutes flight time  from Participant 1.

 

You initially said "view the ISS again on the same pass". 89 minutes of ISS travel time, with respect to much the same location, does not say "the same pass" to me.

Edited by ScroogieII

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But it is the same pass, let's say the full orbit is 90 minutes and this experiment would be 90 minutes less a couple.

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5 hours ago, elyob said:

But it is the same pass, let's say the full orbit is 90 minutes and this experiment would be 90 minutes less a couple.

 

You have a point, however moot it may be.

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17 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Max wants to know if he can partner with himself for an ISS pass? Hit the freeway, drive for an hour, and view the ISS again on the same pass.

I'm thinking that if I can find a pass that goes about 50° to the southeast, then the next pass could be over 45° to the NW. Just drive from Edmond to south OKC, Moore, maybe Norman.  I think I've seen 2 passes in succession that this worked on, but not in the near past. You would be the viewer for the first sighting, I'd be the 2nd. Or it could be just Max (or you, or me) for both.

I still haven't gone and re-read the details of the waymark. I know the original premise was to get 2 or more people to work together, but I don't know if that is written specifically in the write-up. And, 8Nuts may be lenient for something so unusual.

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1 hour ago, vulture1957 said:

it's not moot. It is the whole idea of this thread.

 

Yeabut - it is moot if it won't be accepted by the powers that be.

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9 minutes ago, ScroogieII said:

 

Yeabut - it is moot if it won't be accepted by the powers that be.

8Nuts will be on here soon, and I'm sure he'll enlighten us all on the merits of my ideas. I'm sure it will work for 2 different waymarkers (me and Max&99). That's my main goal. But this could also work for me to get a sighting with someone from maybe Arizona. Or players in New York and Ohio.

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Just maybe, the wording could be tweaked to something like this: 

The minimum distance between you and a partner who watches the ISS after you will need to be at least one minute flight time. I believe this reflects the intended purpose of the minimum distance. I know what it says, but I believe this is what it means.

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18 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Just maybe, the wording could be tweaked to something like this: 

The minimum distance between you and a partner who watches the ISS after you will need to be at least one minute flight time. I believe this reflects the intended purpose of the minimum distance. I know what it says, but I believe this is what it means.

 

Close but:

"The minimum distance between you and a partner who watches the ISS before or after you will need to be at least one minute's flight time."

Otherwise, I agree with that completely.

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2 minutes ago, ScroogieII said:

 

Close but:

"The minimum distance between you and a partner who watches the ISS before or after you will need to be at least one minute's flight time."

Otherwise, I agree with that completely.

I disagree.

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8 minutes ago, ScroogieII said:

 

Close but:

"The minimum distance between you and a partner who watches the ISS before or after you will need to be at least one minute's flight time."

Otherwise, I agree with that completely.

"The minimum distance between you and a partner who watches the ISS before or after you on the same orbit will need to be at least one minute's flight time."

Edited by vulture1957
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1 hour ago, vulture1957 said:

"The minimum distance between you and a partner who watches the ISS before or after you on the same orbit will need to be at least one minute's flight time."

 

Mea Culpa

GOOD!!! Like a good wine, the definition improves with age.

Edited by ScroogieII

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On 3/20/2020 at 5:24 PM, elyob said:

My first attempt at this category years ago was a nearly full orbit.  It was denied.

On 3/20/2020 at 6:20 PM, Max and 99 said:

Do you remember the reason?

AH, YES. THE REASON IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT.

elyob's ISS Waymark was declined because it was not the same visible pass.

The ISS was observed by the first person. The ISS then passed through daytime before it was observed by the second person.

A VISIBLE PASS IS A SINGLE PASS THROUGH THE NIGHT SKY WHILE THE ISS IS REFLECTING SUNLIGHT. 

When the ISS enters Earths daylight sky it is no longer visible and the visible pass ends.

When the ISS enters Earths shadow it is no longer visible and the visible pass ends.

Look at the Heavens Above Web site:

"Visible Only" is always checked. If you check All, you will also see all the daytime passes and the Earths shadow passes.

So, to answer your question - No, a 90 minute Waymark with yourself is not possible.

 

BUT... to throw one more question at you - During that 90 minutes, did the ISS enter the Earths shadow while traveling over the southern hemisphere, thus ending your dream visible pass?

Visible Passes.jpg

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well, I guess that answers that. All my preparations for naught.

 

But, it was a good idea.

Edited by vulture1957

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And so ends yet another bizarre adventure into the Twilight Zone.

It seems that the word visible was essentially invisible to all concerned.

Edited by ScroogieII

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Having done this a few times since, that explanation for the long-ago denial now makes more sense.

Edited by elyob

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Theoretically speaking, what is the longest possible single visible pass (in minutes)?  My head is spinning.

Edited by elyob
I should have written minutes rather than hours.

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2 minutes ago, ScroogieII said:

And so ends yet another bizarre adventure into the Twilight Zone.

It was fun to think about while it lasted.

And there is still nothing to stop you from trying it and reporting it on this forum.

The farther north/south you are, the closer the sequential passes are.

ScroogieII would be the best guess at doing it first. The first pass would pass to his SE/E going up and to his W/SW going down.

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1 hour ago, vulture1957 said:

well, I guess that answers that. All my preparations for naught.

 

But, it was a good idea.

Well if you ever want to try it, just for fun, count me in. 

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6 minutes ago, elyob said:

Theoretically speaking, what is the longest possible single visible pass (in hours)?  My head is spinning.

Three or four years ago I had one pass by me just after sunset, stayed lit all night and hit sunrise on the east coast of Africa near the Equator. If I remember correctly, it flew over Spain. Total time would still be a little less than 45 minutes flight time and 8 time zones.

 

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On 3/22/2020 at 7:25 PM, 8Nuts MotherGoose said:

AH, YES. THE REASON IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT.

elyob's ISS Waymark was declined because it was not the same visible pass.

The ISS was observed by the first person. The ISS then passed through daytime before it was observed by the second person.

A VISIBLE PASS IS A SINGLE PASS THROUGH THE NIGHT SKY WHILE THE ISS IS REFLECTING SUNLIGHT. 

When the ISS enters Earths daylight sky it is no longer visible and the visible pass ends.

When the ISS enters Earths shadow it is no longer visible and the visible pass ends.

Look at the Heavens Above Web site:

"Visible Only" is always checked. If you check All, you will also see all the daytime passes and the Earths shadow passes.

So, to answer your question - No, a 90 minute Waymark with yourself is not possible.

 

BUT... to throw one more question at you - During that 90 minutes, did the ISS enter the Earths shadow while traveling over the southern hemisphere, thus ending your dream visible pass?

Visible Passes.jpg

 

I didn't want to argue ... but I keep reading the Expanded Description for ISS Sightings. It says "All players will have to spot the ISS during the same orbit."

Nowhere does it say the must be in the same visible track.

So, once again, if I can find a date with 2 visible sightings, there is a chance at getting a second player to see the iSS west of my longitude (that would make it on the same orbit, as the ISS tracks east across the globe) and they would be more than 1 minute of travel -- almost 90 minutes.

 

Can someone show me where I am wrong??

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I looked at n2yo.com for a different view of ISS trajectory. It looks like I might be able to get a sighting from Perth Australia to the central US. Now to see if the ISS will stay out of the shadow for that long of a pass. Something like the couple of US-Spain viewings.

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