Has Anyone Considered Disabling Caches Until the Virus Threat is Past

[+Korichnovui 136]

1 hour ago, 31BMSG said:

I apologize, I made an attempt to respond but apparently my internet access failed. The link you provided provides a good synopsis of numbers interpreted by the person(s) that published the web page but includes no other specific citations, I was expecting a tad bit more, like cited raw numbers instead of another opinion, thanks!

 

Try https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

it’s basically the first thing that googles up if you look for statistics. You could have found it easily yourself if you wanted.

 

Check out the chart of world deaths. Check out the trajectory of that chart. Ask yourself what the ceiling is. Well, nobody knows, but it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to look at that trajectory and start wondering.

 

The news is already reporting healthcare systems being overwhelmed to the point where not everyone can receive the healthcare they need. That’s the truly scary part in all this and it is the justification for lockdown.

 

I’m not trying to spread panic but honestly, as a hospitalist who is already seeing this unfold with my own eyes (and we are barely getting started), I hope people will take this more seriously.

 

As to disabling caches, personally I’m not going to, as mine are low traffic or else out of the urban area anyway, but I can respect others doing it as a way to send a message about the seriousness of sheltering where you are.

[+IceColdUK 1041]

11 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

 

That's pretty obvious.

 

Your logic is incorrect.  The probability of passing on or catching is not linear in time, so whether the exercise takes 45 minutes or an hour makes no difference.  What does make a difference is interaction with other people, and (maybe) touching caches that were touched by others.

And the whole "little bits add up" thing is likewise nonsensical.

 

Treating the whole thing like a vacation opportunity is wrong.  Treating it as if there were Death lurking outside every second you are not in your house is likewise wrong.  As someone who is a scientist and an expert on statistics, the best advice I have for everyone is to try to ignore the vast majority of what the talking heads on TV say, but still take the situation seriously.

 

Ouch, I've been burned!

 

I'm a bit cross with myself for falling into the trap of putting numbers into my post.  There will always be an expert on statistics that can shoot them down.  My main point was, and still is:

 

12 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

Our mindset should be: how can I personally reduce this risk [of spreading Covid-19] to the absolute minimum ... without starving, wasting away or going mad.

 

Here, in the UK at least, it seems that too many people are in the mindset of: what can I get away with under the current guidelines?

 

What you can get away with varies considerably from country to country (and in the US, from state to state), but the pattern that seems to be repeating is that the restrictions become tighter and tighter as governments realise people cannot be trusted to do the right thing.  Let's just stay safe and do the right thing!

Edited March 25, 2020 by IceColdUK
tpyos

[+igator210 237]

8 hours ago, Korichnovui said:

 

Try https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

it’s basically the first thing that googles up if you look for statistics. You could have found it easily yourself if you wanted.

 

Check out the chart of world deaths. Check out the trajectory of that chart. Ask yourself what the ceiling is. Well, nobody knows, but it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to look at that trajectory and start wondering.

 

The news is already reporting healthcare systems being overwhelmed to the point where not everyone can receive the healthcare they need. That’s the truly scary part in all this and it is the justification for lockdown.

 

I’m not trying to spread panic but honestly, as a hospitalist who is already seeing this unfold with my own eyes (and we are barely getting started), I hope people will take this more seriously.

 

As to disabling caches, personally I’m not going to, as mine are low traffic or else out of the urban area anyway, but I can respect others doing it as a way to send a message about the seriousness of sheltering where you are.

 

Running sum stats are always a little deceptive. What is better to look at is the day over day reporting. 

Try https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2lnj72O4B05pKJfrV63-hKFt8EqZwJCYqa4RPP1R-FC-ZnAfx7kPrexOU#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

And look at the Daily Increase in the lower right hand corner. You can select a country and see the numbers. 

[+cerberus1 3324]

On 3/17/2020 at 12:21 PM, CAVinoGal said:

Do you plan to change gloves after each cache?  Couldn't you inadvertently spread the virus from cache to cache if you wear the same gloves? 

That's one thing that puzzles me about gloves worn by checkout folks - are they to protect me, the consumer, or the checkout personnel? 

Especially when those gloves handle the groceries that have been handled by how many dozens of different people? 

They don't change gloves between customers!!

 

My 88 year old mother works at a large home improvement retailer.  She wears gloves, and has a bottle of sanitizer on her counter.

Those gloves are to slightly protect her from the multitude of customers with no common sense.  

I gave her a couple masks, and if some knucklehead's coughing all over people,  she's to put one on and go home.

 

Many have now left their extreme hot-zone city,  heading to their 2nd "house in the country" a couple states over, bringing the virus with them.

 - Our new infected totals support that... 

These same residents were asked just today by their own state's governor "if you're going to leave, please self-quarantine when you arrive there".

How does that help us ?

[+cerberus1 3324]

After our representatives were getting numerous questions on "what can I actually do!", our local paper has been placing installments on "what's allowed to be open, and why".

Today's was "Hiking still permitted  in (my county)" .   

Doctor's say it's okay to get outside, just abide by "social distancing", and use common sense.  Simple.

In that same article, they mention how a major tourist trail at our border has far too many people hiking it, with "distancing" not being observed.

Different nearby park than yesterday for me,  another that's clean but no-frills, has a nice packed one-mile loop, and I was the only person there.

Walked it twice, and headed home, seeing no one.   Caches there too, but the other 2/3rds found them.

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by cerberus1

[+on4bam 1500]

18 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

My 88 year old mother works

 

I can only hope that's a typo.

 

[+cerberus1 3324]

Just now, on4bam said:

I can only hope that's a typo.

 

Nope,  after the crash and enron, she works to help pay her property taxes.   You never actually own your home.

[+on4bam 1500]

1 minute ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Nope,  after the crash and enron, she works to help pay her property taxes.   You never actually own your home.

 

We have property taxes too (even after we paid off our mortgage years before) but, without going into politics, I'm glad I live where I live.

 

 

[+igator210 237]

On 3/17/2020 at 12:21 PM, CAVinoGal said:

 

You will wear gloves - to protect other geocachers from catching anything from you - and to protect you from anything that may be on the caches as you check logs, etc.  Do you plan to change gloves after each cache?  Couldn't you inadvertently spread the virus from cache to cache if you wear the same gloves?  That's one thing that puzzles me about gloves worn by checkout folks - are they to protect me, the consumer, or the checkout personnel?  Especially when those gloves handle the groceries that have been handled by how many dozens of different people?  They don't change gloves between customers!!

 

I know there are various reports on how long the virus can last on a surface, but that is in laboratory settings. A geocache container exposed to the elements is not an ideal breading surface. Unless the cache is visited by multiply people a day, the virus most likely will have died by the time the next cacher comes around. 

[yaxu 0]

I disabled my cache last week, when I was surprised to see someone had visited it. This is NOT essential activity.

 

Clearly everyone should err on the side of caution and not talk about what is "most likely" while having zero experience in epidemiology. Just stop this reckless behaviour, which is now criminal, at least in the UK. Personally I think it's poor that geocaching.com haven't just turned off the data feed.

Edited March 25, 2020 by yaxu

[+cerberus1 3324]

On 3/13/2020 at 11:17 AM, shellbadger said:

  Should we buy into this possible concern and disable caches until the nature of the virus is better understood?  

 

We have a pretty good diversity of folks here, and so far,  no one has disabled their caches within a 30 mile radius of me. 

Even caches owned by the parks employees are in play.   

[+G.O. Cash 43]

This is current situation in Germany: there is no nationwide lockdown. Most states have imposed restrictions, such as that gatherings of more than two persons are disallowed unless they live in the same household („contact restriction“),  certain types of shops and businesses have to remain closed etc. I‘m not aware of the detailed rules in all regions of Germany, but around the city of Hamburg, and in Northwestern Germany in general, there are no rules that would prohibit going into the woods on your own, whether to geocache, go running, hiking or whatever. The weather is beautiful if cold, and I see lots of people out and about - and why shouldn‘t they, assuming they adhere to the imposed rules. As far as existing geocaches are concerned, I‘m not aware of any that have been disabled out of virus concerns - I have searched for disabled caches around me, but all I could find were normal maintenance issues.

 

However, it appears the reviewers in all of Germany have stopped publishing all types of new caches - yes, you read that right, not just events, but also all other virtual and physical caches. The reasoning is obvious for events - those would clearly be in breach of the contract restriction rule, but I fail to grasp any justification for ceasing publication of eg all physical geocaches. There is an announcement (in German) on the german reviewer‘s website https://www.gc-reviewer.de/news-der-nord-reviewer-schleswig-holstein-hamburg-bremen-und-niedersachsen-bzgl-des-corona-virus/ , but it does not elaborate on the specific reasons. I‘d love to hear people‘s opinions about this, also, if something similar is going on in your region?

Edited March 27, 2020 by G.O. Cash
misspelling

[+cerberus1 3324]

3 minutes ago, G.O. Cash said:

However, it appears the reviewers in all of Germany have stopped publishing all types of new caches - yes, you read that right, not just events, but also all other virtual and physical caches. The reasoning is obvious for events - those would clearly be in breach of the contract restriction rule, but I fail to grasp any justification for ceasing publication of eg all physical geocaches. There is an announcement (in German) on the german reviewer‘s website https://www.gc-reviewer.de/news-der-nord-reviewer-schleswig-holstein-hamburg-bremen-und-niedersachsen-bzgl-des-corona-virus/ , but it does not elaborate on the specific reasons. I‘d love to hear people‘s opinions about this, also, if something similar is going on in your region?

 

I don't know what a FTF is like in your area, but one possible reason I see is where I am , it's quite a few people, and usually more than enough folks to possibly create an issue with "social distancing".   

I'd see this more of an issue in an urban setting, than along a woods trail.  Have you asked a Reviewer for any specific reasons ?

 

[+G.O. Cash 43]

4 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

I don't know what a FTF is like in your area, but one possible reason I see is where I am , it's quite a few people, and usually more than enough folks to possibly create an issue with "social distancing".   

I'd see this more of an issue in an urban setting, than along a woods trail.  Have you asked a Reviewer for any specific reasons ?

 

 

Sure, that is a possible reason, but I rarely see large crowds around an FTF - sometimes there are several people logging „Team FTF“, but more often than not, only one of the group shows up at the cache anyway - don‘t get me started. In my own FTF experience, in 90+% of the cases, I‘m by myself at the cache, and on the way there. In the rest of cases, it‘s mostly shared with one other cacher. I guess sometimes people phone a few friends to go for FTF together. Anyway, no, I haven‘t asked the reviewers for reasons, partly because the tone of the announcement didn‘t appear to be inviting comments or questions... 

[+baer2006 791]

40 minutes ago, G.O. Cash said:

This is current situation in Germany: there is no nationwide lockdown. Most states have imposed restrictions, such as that gatherings of more than two persons are disallowed unless they live in the same household („contact restriction“),  certain types of shops and businesses have to remain closed etc.

These are actually federal restrictions, valid in all of Germany. Some states (e.g. Bavaria) have stricter regulations in place, e.g. it's not allowed to meet even a single person not living in your household.

 

43 minutes ago, G.O. Cash said:

However, it appears the reviewers in all of Germany have stopped publishing all types of new caches - yes, you read that right, not just events, but also all other virtual and physical caches. The reasoning is obvious for events - those would clearly be in breach of the contract restriction rule, but I fail to grasp any justification for ceasing publication of eg all physical geocaches. There is an announcement (in German) on the german reviewer‘s website https://www.gc-reviewer.de/news-der-nord-reviewer-schleswig-holstein-hamburg-bremen-und-niedersachsen-bzgl-des-corona-virus/ , but it does not elaborate on the specific reasons. I‘d love to hear people‘s opinions about this, also, if something similar is going on in your region?

The equivalent note of the Bavarian reviewers is a bit longer, and includes this passage:

    "Gerade bei neu veröffentlichten Caches ist in der Regel die Anzahl der Cacher, die sich zur Suche aufmachen, größer als bei bestehenden Caches und die Chance, dass sich Personen außerhalb des persönlichen Nahbereiches an einem solchen Ort treffen, ist relativ hoch. Außerdem sind sich die Wissenschaftler derzeit noch nicht im Klaren, ob und wie lange das Virus auf glatten Oberflächen, wie z.B. auf Geocaches halten kann und möglicherweise so eine Ansteckung ermöglicht."

 

Translation (by DeepL, with only a single remark in [] by me):

    "Especially with newly published caches, the number of cachers that go on a search is usually larger than with existing caches, and the chance that people outside of the personal vicinity [persons living with you] will meet at such a place is relatively high. In addition, scientists are currently not yet sure whether and how long the virus can persist on smooth surfaces such as geocaches and possibly allow infection."

 

So the rationale for not publishing new caches is the FTF hunt. Not only "group FTFs" but also the fact, that within the first few days, lots of cachers will handle the cache.

 

Personally, I think that while group caching is of course a no-go, the risk of spreading the disease via the cache container/logbook/etc. itself is very low. Especially if you follow a few safety rules.

[+G.O. Cash 43]

7 minutes ago, baer2006 said:

So the rationale for not publishing new caches is the FTF hunt. Not only "group FTFs" but also the fact, that within the first few days, lots of cachers will handle the cache.

 

Personally, I think that while group caching is of course a no-go, the risk of spreading the disease via the cache container/logbook/etc. itself is very low. Especially if you follow a few safety rules.

Thanks for the info about the „FTF hunt“ reasoning which was dropped from the announcement for Northern Germany. That is at least a reason; if it‘s a good enough one, can be debated... I think the benefit of offering more incentives to go outside in times when many are restricted to staying at home (for good reasons otherwise) outweighs the low risk of additional exposure. 

 

I have to be honest, I‘m not really comfortable when people (the reviewers, in that case) impose rules on others (the cache owners and cache seekers) outside of their mandate (which is to review and publish caches), especially if those rules go over and above the rules imposed by those actually in charge of rulemaking (the authorities and elected officials)... just my opinion.

[+IceColdUK 1041]

Message from UK Reviewers:

 

For all UK geocachers.

The UK is now in lockdown due to the pandemic. The UK reviewing team has decided to stop publishing all new caches until such time as these restrictions have been lifted. Any caches in the queue during the lockdown will be disabled with a note to resubmit when the situation improves.

We will keep a close eye on the situation and post updates here as they occur.

Your understanding is greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

UK Reviewers

[Keystone 3453]

Reviewers around the world are developing responses based on local laws and restrictions.  Do not expect consistency from one jurisdiction to another, because the laws and restrictions vary depending on the severity of COVID-19's impact in that area.

 

In many cases Reviewers are erring on the side of caution, so you may see approaches which are more restrictive than local laws at a given point in time.  The same may not be true tomorrow or next week.

 

In my review territories we have taken an approach that does its best to align with local laws, which permit outdoor exercise in parks and open recreational spaces (hiking, biking, etc.) as an "Essential Activity."  You can see the detailed reasoning in the Geocaching Regional Policies Wiki or in the posts I made this morning in the Northeast and Midwest USA forum sections.

[+G.O. Cash 43]

9 minutes ago, Keystone said:

In my review territories we have taken an approach that does its best to align with local laws, which permit outdoor exercise in parks and open recreational spaces (hiking, biking, etc.) as an "Essential Activity."  You can see the detailed reasoning in the Geocaching Regional Policies Wiki or in the posts I made this morning in the Northeast and Midwest USA forum sections.

That seems perfectly reasonable...

[+G.O. Cash 43]

28 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

Message from UK Reviewers:

 

For all UK geocachers.

The UK is now in lockdown due to the pandemic. The UK reviewing team has decided to stop publishing all new caches until such time as these restrictions have been lifted. Any caches in the queue during the lockdown will be disabled with a note to resubmit when the situation improves.

We will keep a close eye on the situation and post updates here as they occur.

Your understanding is greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

UK Reviewers

I can see how this aligns with the more restrictive measures imposed in the UK (lockdown) v Germany (contact restriction). What is the view of authorities towards e.g. going outside to exercise (by oneself); is this prohibited or permitted as essential activity?

[+on4bam 1500]

In Belgium:

Lockdown.

Borders are closed except for goods and some people working across the border (with permit)

Shops are closed except for food and pharmacies. Cafés/restaurants are closed even some bakeries are closed (mostly the ones offering sandwiches to take away). Schools are closed but are offering daycare for children of medical staff and people working in essential professions.

Shops that are open can only allow 1 customer / 10 square meters and 30 minutes shopping time. That means supermarkets will only allow someone in when someone comes out when capacity is reached. Also, some product are limited to x/person (a week ago some people where buying toiletpaper to last well into 2174

Most construction sites are closed (getting people together in a van getting to work is a bad idea anyway)

Retirement homes are in lockdown, no visitors allowed at all.

No non-essential traffic allowed.

Exercising is encourages but not driving to a park/forest... to do so. Only walk/bike which in practice limits people to stay in their own area.

Going outside can only be done with people living under the same roof, one extra "friend" can go too but keep a distance of 1.5m minimum.

 

That's about it on 25/3 ... things may change fast though.

[+MartyBartfast 796]

31 minutes ago, G.O. Cash said:

What is the view of authorities towards e.g. going outside to exercise (by oneself); is this prohibited or permitted as essential activity?

 

It's permitted, and you can go with people who you live with if you want.

 

[+barefootjeff 3828]

4 hours ago, G.O. Cash said:

I‘d love to hear people‘s opinions about this, also, if something similar is going on in your region?

 

Yesterday afternoon the Australian reviewers made this announcement:

 

Quote

As you would all be aware we are currently in the middle of a crisis with the Covid-19 Pandemic upon us.

Government and Health Authorities are encouraging us to stay at home, and shutting down all but essential activities.

 

Unfortunately, publishing geocaches leads to non-essential travel, something that the various State Governments, the National Cabinet and Prime Minister have asked all Australians to stop. To that end, the Australian Volunteer Reviewers and Geocaching HQ have agreed to suspend the publishing of new caches in Australia until the crisis is over, and current recommendations are lifted by the relevant State and Federal Governments. We also need to implore that you reconsider the need to travel in line with advice for any existing geocaches and ensure that you are meeting all local requirements. See https://www.health.gov.au/ for more information

 

If you have a cache in the queue currently will receive a note from a reviewer shortly outlining what needs to happen. Just because we are not publishing new caches for the foreseeable future doesn’t mean that everything will stop. Reviewers will be available to help test a new idea for a Challenge cache or a question if a cache idea fits within the guidelines. If you have a question, please reach out to us.

 

We wish you all the greatest of health over the next few weeks and hope to see you all out on the trail again soon.

 

Bunjil, Balayang, GeoAwareANZ2, Tchingal, tiddalik, inspicio, Hersien and Ministro

 

[+NYPaddleCacher 1827]

4 hours ago, Keystone said:

In my review territories we have taken an approach that does its best to align with local laws, which permit outdoor exercise in parks and open recreational spaces (hiking, biking, etc.) as an "Essential Activity."  You can see the detailed reasoning in the Geocaching Regional Policies Wiki or in the posts I made this morning in the Northeast and Midwest USA forum sections.

If hiking, biking, and geocaching are essential activities, is cache maintenance an essential activity.  That is, if a cache gets a NM or NA log, is the CO obligated to go out and perform necessary maintenance?   Are caches being archived in areas where "stay at home" is strongly encouraged.  As someone in the vulnerable demographic I am not going to go check up on any of my caches even if it gets a NM or NA log.  I'll archive the cache before I do that.

[Keystone 3453]

Great question.  Stay tuned for guidance on adjusted cache maintenance expectations during the COVID-19 pandemic.  Geocaching HQ and the Community Volunteer Reviewers are having a thoughtful dialogue on this subject.

[+CAVinoGal 661]

4 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

That is, if a cache gets a NM or NA log, is the CO obligated to go out and perform necessary maintenance? 

 

2 minutes ago, Keystone said:

Stay tuned for guidance on adjusted cache maintenance expectations during the COVID-19 pandemic. 

 

It would only make sense that if publication of new caches is beng suspended so as to not encourage certain behaviors, then archival or other actions due to non-maintenance should also be suspended, or at least have "expectations modified" as Keystone stated, as the behaviors involved (get out, check on or look for the cache, etc) are similar.

8 minutes ago, Keystone said:

Geocaching HQ and the Community Volunteer Reviewers are having a thoughtful dialogue on this subject.

I look forward to the forthcoming guidelines and policies.  Thank you for keeping us informed!!

[+MNTA 196]

2 hours ago, Keystone said:

Great question.  Stay tuned for guidance on adjusted cache maintenance expectations during the COVID-19 pandemic.  Geocaching HQ and the Community Volunteer Reviewers are having a thoughtful dialogue on this subject.

 

I'm torn by this.

 

For responsible COs and the like, great give them more time specially if the request is simple and fixable. Communication needs to initiated by CO as long as an extension is requested. If the cache is missing definitely disable. If the authorities are saying no driving then how can you be expected to go check on the cache.

 

For the COs that have obviously abandoned the cache or has never maintained any of their caches, I vote no. Disable and unless requested it get archived, which rarely happens.

 

This is not going to blow over any time soon. 

[+Crow-T-Robot 153]

23 hours ago, K13 said:

I find it almost laughable that people are disabling geocaches during this pandemic.  Unless you get out and remove the geocache container when you disable it, you are not going to stop another person from finding it.  Most governing bodies are allowing or even encouraging people to get out for exercise.  Walking/jogging/biking are cited examples of personal outdoor exercise, and geocachers who want the exercise WILL go out and find geocaches - whether disabled or active. 

 

After reading the actual "Safer At Home" order implemented by Wisconsin, I had a change of heart and am going to keep my caches active. If social distancing is followed, there is no reason people cannot go to parks, trails, preserves or just around town and geocaching can be a great way to get out of the house and engage in a low-risk hobby. Just be smart about it. No events, no meet-ups, no group caching, carry gloves and hand sanitizer. If you're worried about the possibility that the virus could be passed along by someone handling a geocache, then look at the map and seek out the caches that haven't been found in six months. There are usually plenty of those to be had and you can breathe easier knowing it didn't come in contact with anyone infected. 

[+Rainbow Spirit 4]

Here in Australia all of our local reviewers have posted that no new caches will be published, owing to our government advising people not to travel unless it is for essential purposes. Reviewers are advising us that cachers should not travel to find caches.

 

No mention of whether posts on caches will be honoured  or not.

[+Mermaid.Man 58]

Here in NZ it's been made clear that it's not acceptable to travel in your vehicle somewhere to go for a walk. You can only drive for essential reasons (food or medicine). 

Hiking is strongly discouraged to avoid the risk of burdening the emergency services. 

Many of us are disabling our caches so as not to encourage people to travel from place to place. 

[+brodiebunch 29]

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/city-state-federal-parks-mostly-closed-due-to-covid-19/

 

Washington state is closing the state parks and state lands. Most city parks are closed. The national parks are closed but national forest lands remain open for now.

 

"Flatten the curve" = Conform. 

[+G.O. Cash 43]

2 hours ago, brodiebunch said:

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/city-state-federal-parks-mostly-closed-due-to-covid-19/

 

Washington state is closing the state parks and state lands. Most city parks are closed. The national parks are closed but national forest lands remain open for now.

 

"Flatten the curve" = Conform. 

Thanks, interesting article. The problem: crowded parking lots... On the other hand, expecting people to remain holed up at home (for weeks? months??) poses its own risks, including health risks as well... My take on it: this shows people want to go outside, and simply taking this option away by closing everything, telling everybody to go away is the government doing very poorly by its citizens. The government throws up its hands, says „go somewhere else“... but where? On the other hand, if people can‘t use government land, at least one can lay off or furlough most of the park service staff, and put the money / staff to better use eg in health care / hospitals. Set up improvised hospitals on park lands, maybe?

 

“Flatten the curve“ : I don‘t think it will work at all, and everything considered, it may even make things much, much worse, but that‘s a different discussion altogether.

[+G.O. Cash 43]

3 hours ago, Mermaid.Man said:

Here in NZ it's been made clear that it's not acceptable to travel in your vehicle somewhere to go for a walk. You can only drive for essential reasons (food or medicine). 

Hiking is strongly discouraged to avoid the risk of burdening the emergency services. 

Many of us are disabling our caches so as not to encourage people to travel from place to place. 

That doesn‘t make sense at all... why does traveling in your vehicle pose an infection risk, unless you travel somewhere to meet up with other people? Burdening the emergency services by... hiking? Assuming by „hiking“ we don‘t mean Frodo‘s quest or something... 

[+IceColdUK 1041]

1 hour ago, G.O. Cash said:

That doesn‘t make sense at all... why does traveling in your vehicle pose an infection risk, unless you travel somewhere to meet up with other people? Burdening the emergency services by... hiking? Assuming by „hiking“ we don‘t mean Frodo‘s quest or something... 

 

I guess the point is that unnecessary travel, even hiking, might burden the emergency services in other ways - accidents, etc.

 

Of course, we all know that most accidents occur in the home...

[+Mausebiber 501]

Quote

I guess the point is that unnecessary travel, even hiking, might burden the emergency services in other ways - accidents, etc.

 

I really don't won't to get into emergency services way or cause additional burden to them.

But, how does hiking get in their way?

 

 

 

 

[+Crazedllama 28]

2 minutes ago, Mausebiber said:

I really don't won't to get into emergency services way or cause additional burden to them.

But, how does hiking get in their way?

Essentially the hospitals are already overloaded in much of the world, and any injury, (hiking related injuries, getting lost or stuck, broken or injured bones, car accidents) is going to go untreated for an extended and possibly life threatening amount of time. Hospitals are also afraid that anyone showing up with a non-corona related medical issue may walk away from an emergency room with Corona. Really, it's just better to follow regional guidelines and medical experts advice. 

I'm in Korea and we've been dealing with the Corona Virus fora while. I'm glad that the Korean government took things seriously here early on and have "flattened the curve." We're almost through this here. 

Going back to the original topic. I think that disabling caches should be up to the owner and their regional advice, some areas may need it, some may not.  

[+Mausebiber 501]

3 minutes ago, Crazedllama said:

hiking related injuries, getting lost or stuck, broken or injured bones

 

Understood, thanks.

[+barefootjeff 3828]

6 hours ago, Rainbow Spirit said:

Here in Australia all of our local reviewers have posted that no new caches will be published, owing to our government advising people not to travel unless it is for essential purposes. Reviewers are advising us that cachers should not travel to find caches.

 

No mention of whether posts on caches will be honoured  or not.

 

This is the latest from the New South Wales National Parks and Wildlife Service, posted today.

 

Quote

Although some of our national parks have been closed due to the recent bushfires and floods, many national parks remain open. Where possible, walking tracks and low-traffic open spaces will remain open for exercise.

However, in line with the Australian and NSW Government health officials, people are encouraged to limit their visit to open, natural areas near their homes. Please check alerts for closures in NSW national parks before planning your visit.

 

The Central Coast Council website indicates a similar situation applies to reserves under their control. From this, it would appear that individuals going on walks that would take them past my caches is okay for now. Of course that might all change tomorrow.

[+Mermaid.Man 58]

2 hours ago, G.O. Cash said:

That doesn‘t make sense at all... why does traveling in your vehicle pose an infection risk, unless you travel somewhere to meet up with other people? Burdening the emergency services by... hiking?

 

Yes it certainly came as a blow when it was announced yesterday but actually these measures do seem sensible.  The logic is summed up quite well in an article

here.

[+Goldenwattle 1654]

19 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

I don't know what a FTF is like in your area, but one possible reason

That's what I thought. FTF attracts crowds of people.

[+barefootjeff 3828]

4 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

That's what I thought. FTF attracts crowds of people.

 

My most recent cache got its FTF in January and 2TF in March.

[+Goldenwattle 1654]

1 minute ago, barefootjeff said:

 

My most recent cache got its FTF in January and 2TF in March.

Yes, I know this varies. I have had several accidental FTFs in country areas that have been published for a week or two. It was just a cache and then I discover I got a FTF. But in some areas it's very competitive for FTFs and many people descend. It's easier for the reviewers not to publish new caches than guess which cache won't get hoards of eager FTF cachers and which will.

[+Goldenwattle 1654]

I went out into the countryside and found 24 caches today. I met no other cachers. Mind you, the caches were found only five days previous by someone else, so that was a recent find. Next time I should look for caches that aren't found so frequently.

I have noted about a dozen caches within easy cycling or walking distance from my house, and there are a few more a bit further. I am keeping those to do if there is a lockdown and we are allowed out daily for some exercise. One cache a day and I will take gloves and hand sanitiser.

[+Mausebiber 501]

10 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

One cache a day and I will take gloves and hand sanitiser.

 

What are the gloves for?  The virus is not going through your hand's skin.  The problem is, that we all touch our face several times an hour and the virus is getting through mouth, nose and eyes into in our imun system.  There is no difference using bare hands or gloves.  Hand sanitiser is the is the best choice if you are caching.

 

[+Goldenwattle 1654]

9 minutes ago, Mausebiber said:

 

What are the gloves for?  The virus is not going through your hand's skin.  The problem is, that we all touch our face several times an hour and the virus is getting through mouth, nose and eyes into in our imun system.  There is no difference using bare hands or gloves.  Hand sanitiser is the is the best choice if you are caching.

 

The gloves would only be an option when handling the cache. Hopefully for that short time I can resist touching my face. Then gloves off and I use hand sanitiser in case I touched the gloves. One of the greatest reasons I touch my face is to brush hairs off my face that gravitate towards my mouth, as though by static electricity. I have now started putting my hair back in a ponytail, or trying to, to help stop this, when I go out. My hair is a bit short for this, so now I will grow it longer while this crisis is on, until it is long enough to properly put in a pigtail and keep it under control when I leave home. It will also mean I won't need to bother with cutting my hair for awhile. Hairdressers have more restrictions now, and really should be closed. Not that I personally ever go to a hairdresser.

[+G.O. Cash 43]

33 minutes ago, Mermaid.Man said:

 

Yes it certainly came as a blow when it was announced yesterday but actually these measures do seem sensible.  The logic is summed up quite well in an article

here.

Mhm, an opinion piece from the „Lifestyle“ section, written by the „Social media and trending reporter“... „sensible“ and „logic“ are not words I would associate with that article.

 

Nevertheless, governments in most regions as reported here seem to take a „kill the economy now, worry about the consequences later“ approach. Those in charge appear to want to outmatch each other with more restrictive measures; do they realise they are gambling with people‘s livelihoods? What if in a few weeks time people crawl out from the toilet paper forts in their homes, and find out they have no employer, no job and no income? I do not want to advocate reckless behaviour, or underestimate risks; all I‘m looking for is some weighing of risks, costs and benefits - anything other than hype, fear and panic.

[+cerberus1 3324]

4 hours ago, Mausebiber said:

What are the gloves for?  The virus is not going through your hand's skin.  The problem is, that we all touch our face several times an hour and the virus is getting through mouth, nose and eyes into in our imun system.  There is no difference using bare hands or gloves. 

Hand sanitiser is the is the best choice if you are caching.

Agreed. 

I watched a lady at the local drug store take her nitrile gloves off properly (peeled from behind the cuff), but then roll them up in her (now) bare hands, and threw them in the waste pail.

Anything touching the outside of those gloves could/would be contaminated, creating more hassle than those gloves were worth.

When folks don't have a plan for those gloves afterwards, best to just keep using sanitizer on bare skin if you can't wash 'em.   

[+TeamRabbitRun 526]

3 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Agreed. 

I watched a lady at the local drug store take her nitrile gloves off properly (peeled from behind the cuff), but then roll them up in her (now) bare hands, and threw them in the waste pail.

Anything touching the outside of those gloves could/would be contaminated, creating more hassle than those gloves were worth.

When folks don't have a plan for those gloves afterwards, best to just keep using sanitizer on bare skin if you can't wash 'em.   

 

Glove removal:

1. Pinch the glove at the palm of the other hand and pull it off. Ball it up in the still-gloved palm.
2. With the bare hand, insert fingers INTO the back of the glove's cuff and without your thumb touching the outside, pull it off, turning it inside-out, with the first glove inside.
3. Now the newly-outside side is clean. Throw it away.

[+ecanderson 593]

9 hours ago, Mausebiber said:

 

What are the gloves for?  The virus is not going through your hand's skin.  The problem is, that we all touch our face several times an hour and the virus is getting through mouth, nose and eyes into in our imun system.  There is no difference using bare hands or gloves.  Hand sanitiser is the is the best choice if you are caching.

 

Gloves, like masks, can serve a very useful secondary purpose.  You're not likely to shove a piece of blue nitrile up your nose, and if wearing a mask, you can't even find your nose. 

 

For a period of time, gloves serve as a very visible reminder that your hands can be your enemy, and to treat them accordingly.  If for no other reason than that, they can prove very useful in times such as this.

[Keystone 3453]

On 3/25/2020 at 6:09 PM, Keystone said:

Great question.  Stay tuned for guidance on adjusted cache maintenance expectations during the COVID-19 pandemic.  Geocaching HQ and the Community Volunteer Reviewers are having a thoughtful dialogue on this subject.

 

I can now confirm two items relating to cache maintenance expectations.

 

First, Geocaching HQ has "turned off" the cache maintenance notification emails that cache owners receive when their geocache falls below the threshold for a good "Cache Health Score." Under present conditions, many CO's may not feel comfortable responding to a notification by going out to check on their cache.  In some areas that may be contrary to governmental orders and restrictions on non-essential travel.

 

Second, Community Volunteer Reviewers will be noticeably more lenient about archiving or disabling caches that have maintenance issues.  The details may vary from one country or region to another, based on local conditions, but the spirit is consistent worldwide.