Coronavirus and Events

[+cerberus1]

1 hour ago, AleksSI said:

Sorry, I have to be very critical. While Groundspeak Inc. staff is in a safe enviroment at home, it is obvious that they made a bad decision that threatens public health.

 

Maybe it's just me, but being one of two hotspots on the CDC map  here in the US doesn't seem all that safe.  

Others are no where near that bad, and probably why the rest in this hobby are told to use some common sense...   

Unfortunately, even our local government's is in a panic, not even making sense on what stores are "important enough" to stay open.  

[+LizzyRN]

8 hours ago, hal-an-tow said:

Health care professionals throughout the world are the front line in this, they deserve our respect and thanks for continuing to walk into danger for us each and every day.

 

An academic study in the UK medical journal The Lancet shows male mortality is greater than female mortality in every age group observed in a study of the Wuhan outbreak.

 

Statistics from epidemiological studies are all fine and dandy, until you put faces in place of numbers, especially if those faces are your friends , family and self. Risk of severe illness after infection may be statistically higher in older people, people with existing conditions, pregnant women, and those with Y chromosomes, but we are all at some risk, and we can all be vectors of the disease, passing it on to others.

 

One big problem is that there are no symptoms whatsoever that you have this sneaky virus for several days, so feeling OK some folk think it's OK to continue with life as normal. Not wise : best treat everyone as if they had it and you have it , even if you think you don't. Social distancing is keeping other humans at a safe distance, but not necessarily the same as staying in your home. And (as long as no laws forbid it) keeping your lungs, immune system and general physical and mental health in good shape with a solo walk in the relatively unpopulated countryside is risking nothing as long as you avoid human contact, and wash your hands.

As healthcare professionals working in a hospital currently we come to work, UNLESS we have a fever over 100.5 F. We could still have the virus, we simply don't have the fever. We STILL have to take care of patients, until we are sick enough to stay home. Hopefully that does not happen because there won't be enough nurses, techs, respiratory therapists, etc. to take care of the sick people, let alone PPE and equipment such as ventilators.  As you said, we do know what works. We avoid close contact by social distancing and wash our hands (I stopped counting at 80 washings one shift), wear a mask at work, etc. It's so simple, yet so effective. 

 

In Washington our stats are a little different. 59% of deaths have been female, 38% male and 3% unknown (don't ask).  I've been following the stats here daily. We have been consistently at 54-58% of deaths occurring in folks 60 years and older. Yesterday that changed and 17% were 50-59 years old.  Today it's tremendously different. A bunch of deaths were reported and it is now 93% 60 and older. 

 

Here in Washington many people are now out of work, due to this situation. The economic affects will be catastrophic. 

 

Re: influenza - It is deadly in its own right. However, we have a vaccine for it, and we have treatment. Neither of which we have for COVID-19.  Yet, people still choose to not receive the flu vaccine. They rely on the rest of us to protect them, and their unvaccinated children. 

[+hal-an-tow]

15 minutes ago, LizzyRN said:

As healthcare professionals working in a hospital currently we come to work, UNLESS we have a fever over 100.5 F. We could still have the virus, we simply don't have the fever. We STILL have to take care of patients, until we are sick enough to stay home. Hopefully that does not happen because there won't be enough nurses, techs, respiratory therapists, etc. to take care of the sick people, let alone PPE and equipment such as ventilators.  As you said, we do know what works. We avoid close contact by social distancing and wash our hands (I stopped counting at 80 washings one shift), wear a mask at work, etc. It's so simple, yet so effective. 

 

In Washington our stats are a little different. 59% of deaths have been female, 38% male and 3% unknown (don't ask).  I've been following the stats here daily. We have been consistently at 54-58% of deaths occurring in folks 60 years and older. Yesterday that changed and 17% were 50-59 years old.  Today it's tremendously different. A bunch of deaths were reported and it is now 93% 60 and older. 

 

 

It's a grotesque and appalling failure of planning by political and medical bodies that supplies of  PPE, respirators and trained staff were not increased in anticipation in every country of the world after this particular virus emerged in December last year.

 

A pandemic was entirely predictable at some point after we had close escapes with MERS  and SARS ,  it wasn't a matter of 'if' but 'when' another relative of theirs would emerge, and we've had nearly 2 decades to prepare. But they have not thought it worth spending money on. As you say, the economic outcome is going to be enormous, so the gamble of optimistic inaction has failed big time.

 

Interesting that your statistics differ so much as far as gender goes from the Wuhan study , maybe some cultural difference coming into play ? Anyway, you take care, and keep washing those hands ...

[+LizzyRN]

7 minutes ago, hal-an-tow said:

Interesting that your statistics differ so much as far as gender goes from the Wuhan study , maybe some cultural difference coming into play ? Anyway, you take care, and keep washing those hands ...

The stats I quoted are only for Washington state. 

 

Back to choosing a pattern for making PPE......I wonder if I take my sewing supplies to work, I could be paid for making them?

[+Viajero Perdido]

<hypothetical>

When I attend that one last outdoor and physically well-spaced-out event tomorrow, if I mention that I have a leftover supply of chloroquine (a malaria preventative and possible C19 cure), will suddenly everyone be inside my personal space, asking for some?

</hypothetical>

 

Sorry, just trying to keep this at least partly on-topic, given this part of the thread really belongs in off-topic, but currently isn't.

 

Anyway, @LizzyRN, I wanted to ask, are you seeing patients being treated with chloroquine?  On an experimental basis, presumably.

 

From what I've read, it seems Korea has been giving it to patients, and also their mortality numbers are looking much better than Italy's for a similar case count.  Coincidence or causation, I'm sure people want to know more.

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Viajero Perdido
Wrong -etical

[+Max and 99]

40 minutes ago, LizzyRN said:

Back to choosing a pattern for making PPE......I wonder if I take my sewing supplies to work, I could be paid for making them?

A local hospital is asking volunteers to sew PPEs.  They will not be used by hospital personnel. 

[+LizzyRN]

2 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

 

Anyway, @LizzyRN, I wanted to ask, are you seeing patients being treated with chloroquine?  On an experimental basis, presumably.

 

No, not at my facility.

[+LizzyRN]

2 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

A local hospital is asking volunteers to sew PPEs.  They will not be used by hospital personnel. 

 

My co-workers (nurses and docs) are making regular surgical masks to wear over our N95 respirators, simply to preserve the N95s. Providence has a 100 Million Mask program going on. Hospitals are going through a six month supply in 2-3 days. 

[+Max and 99]

4 hours ago, LizzyRN said:

 

My co-workers (nurses and docs) are making regular surgical masks to wear over our N95 respirators, simply to preserve the N95s. Providence has a 100 Million Mask program going on. Hospitals are going through a six month supply in 2-3 days. 

Same everywhere!  I think it's great that the community here is sewing those for the hospital.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Max and 99

[+TerraViators]

On 3/17/2020 at 1:02 PM, thebruce0 said:

 

Sure, but the proposal is worldwide, that's not a simple decision. On the smaller scale, they could decide region by region to override local reviewer decisions, but I think they trust their reviewers to know when to draw the line.

Perhaps.  I know there is an event scheduled in two days a mile away where four cased of COVID-19 were discovered. 

[fendmar]

Imagine while we are all stuck in our caves the creepy crawlies (pathogens) festering while waiting to be released on an unsuspecting public when the mm decides to free us all from our current prisons. Will it spread faster or kill more than corona? Keeping people in confined spaces for long periods has always been a breeding ground for all sorts of fun things. It could be being delivered as I type this. When do you think the last time that delivery van was disinfected? How about the warehouse? The manufacturing equipment? The materials suppliers? Anyone think the restaurant where you are anxiously waiting to reschedule that event is taking this time to thoroughly clean all their equipment?

 

Are we entering a new age of germaphobia/xenophobia? Should we be? The potential has always been there, what is a proper level of precaution that still allows a society to function? I am fairly certain we have far exceeded that and I am not convinced all of it has been in the interest of public safety.

[+CAVinoGal]

 

 

Events for my area seem to have disappeared from the calendar through mid April.

Edited March 22, 2020 by CAVinoGal

[+TeamJohan]

Are we allowed to have virtual events?  Over Facebook live, Skype or Zoom?  

 

[+hal-an-tow]

4 minutes ago, TeamJohan said:

Are we allowed to have virtual events?  Over Facebook live, Skype or Zoom?  

 

No.

This was near the end of the message sent out about Community Celebration events to those who posted a 'will attend'

"We understand it can be very disappointing to miss the connections that are made at Events. But please remember that geocaching is a location-based game, and locationless Events or virtual logging of Events are not permitted by the Geocaching guidelines. "

 

Plus all of those platforms need individuals to sign up to other services/websites I suspect, so even if the situation eventually got so desperate that virtual events were allowed, those would probably not be the channels used.

[+TeamJohan]

So sad, but thank you!

 

[+frostengel]

1 hour ago, TeamJohan said:

Are we allowed to have virtual events?  Over Facebook live, Skype or Zoom? 

 

Of course, you are. Just contact your geocaching friends to meet in Facebook live, Skype, Zoom or whatever you want and have a good time.

Only thing missing is the listing and the statistics point.

 

Have fun!

Jochen

[+LizzyRN]

On 3/20/2020 at 7:13 PM, Viajero Perdido said:

 

Anyway, @LizzyRN, I wanted to ask, are you seeing patients being treated with chloroquine?  On an experimental basis, presumably.

 

Viajero Perdido,  I amend my earlier answer. I have heard of patients in my facility being treated with it and a Z-pack.  Rumor says there have been positive results. 

[+31BMSG]

17 minutes ago, LizzyRN said:

 

Viajero Perdido,  I amend my earlier answer. I have heard of patients in my facility being treated with it and a Z-pack.  Rumor says there have been positive results. 

Is  chloroquine and mefloquine the same drug with different brand names or are they entirely different compounds? I've had a lot of experience with mefloquine and it has some rather bizarre side effects.

Also, if there is a web site(s) that provides factual information without media involvement where would that be? I like to read the facts before jumping off the boat, if there are others in addition to the CDC and WHO newsletters I'm all about reading them.

Above all, thank you for what you are doing!

 

[+LizzyRN]

25 minutes ago, 31BMSG said:

I like to read the facts before jumping off the boat, if there are others in addition to the CDC and WHO newsletters I'm all about reading them.

Since each state/region seems to be affected differently, I would refer you to your state Dept of Health, followed by your County Health Department. Ours here in Washington, a hot bed of COVID, updates daily and lists pertinent statistics in a way that won't put you to sleep.  https://www.doh.wa.gov   I also refer to my County Health Department page at least daily.   https://www.skagitcounty.net/Departments/HealthDiseases/coronavirus.htm    It's less complete, but it's another source for me.  Unfortunately, the information takes a bit to get to the officials. We know about deaths that have occurred in certain counties, but it isn't reflected on these websites yet. Ironically, the DOH is closed until further notice. 

 

We are seriously struggling here for PPE. Some hospital administration is FORBIDDING people from wearing masks in some departments, as well as NOT providing N95s to nurses caring for COVID-19 positive patients. Staff are wearing less effective surgical masks. Some are provided only goggles when a complete face shield is the appropriate PPE. I have ordered my own face shield and am awaiting its arrival. I have sewn several surgical masks to wear over my N95 to prolong its life.  I've heard that Target and Harbor Freight will divert their supplies of PPE to healthcare providers.  I read a great post by a doc who hits the nail on the head re: PPE and big businesses that should be shifting their efforts to making PPE, such as Proctor & Gamble, 3M, Johnson & Johnson, etc. 

 

MEFLOquine and CHLOROquine are two different drugs used to treat malaria. The sides effects sound miserable. Hydroxychloroquine (Brand name: Plaquenil) is an anti-malarial as well as used for other conditions such as some bowel disorders. From the very little I've read, it seems that this is what has been used. I do not know that for fact. 

[+bflentje]

23 hours ago, frostengel said:

 

Of course, you are. Just contact your geocaching friends to meet in Facebook live, Skype, Zoom or whatever you want and have a good time.

Only thing missing is the listing and the statistics point.

 

Have fun!

Jochen

 

And tying up bandwidth for those working remotely doing what could be an important job in the fight against the invisible enemy.

[+niraD]

19 minutes ago, bflentje said:

And tying up bandwidth for those working remotely doing what could be an important job in the fight against the invisible enemy.

Somehow, I think an online gathering among a few geocachers is just a drop in the bandwidth bucket when it comes to all the people using online tools to stay connected during a "shelter in place" order.

[+bflentje]

7 hours ago, niraD said:

Somehow, I think an online gathering among a few geocachers is just a drop in the bandwidth bucket when it comes to all the people using online tools to stay connected during a "shelter in place" order.

 

It's like picking up a penny. They all add up.

[+niraD]

4 minutes ago, bflentje said:

It's like picking up a penny. They all add up.

Do you really expect everyone to stop using online tools so all the bandwidth is available to somehow be used to fight the COVID-19 virus?

[+Max and 99]

Geocaching is encouraging online hangouts, as well as puzzle solving.

 

12 ways to stay connected with geocaching.

[+Lynx Humble]

With 50K case in the States and 409K Worldwide why Groundspeak still haven't retract all future events for a few weeks?

[+Max and 99]

8 hours ago, Lynx Humble said:

With 50K case in the States and 409K Worldwide why Groundspeak still haven't retract all future events for a few weeks?

My state has banned all gatherings of 10 or more people. Still lots of geocaching events scheduled in my area.

The governor does want people to enjoy the outdoors!

[+Goldenwattle]

2 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

The governor does want people to enjoy the outdoors!

I think the governor does not want the virus spread by those who don't give a dadgum (the wordisdamn, which is not a swear word in Australia).

Edited March 25, 2020 by Goldenwattle

[+barefootjeff]

8 hours ago, Lynx Humble said:

With 50K case in the States and 409K Worldwide why Groundspeak still haven't retract all future events for a few weeks?

 

A couple of hours ago, my reviewer retracted my Community Celebration event set down for the 24th of May. I'd been intending to ask him to do that in the next week or two anyway, if things here go the way everyone's expecting now, and luckily posted an announcement a couple of days ago advising that it was likely to happen. Surprisingly, though, a similar CC event set down for the 28th of May in southern Sydney is still listed.

 

I hope we've come through and out the other side before the 31st of December cut-off date for these events.

[+Rustynails]

18 hours ago, Lynx Humble said:

With 50K case in the States and 409K Worldwide why Groundspeak still haven't retract all future events for a few weeks?

 

President Trump said everything will be better by Easter. We know the president would never lie.

[+on4bam]

1 minute ago, rustynails. said:

 

President Trump said everything will be better by Easter. We know the president would never lie.

He hopes for "full churches". Time to close our borders for US flights/visitors.

 

[Keystone]

The moderating team is being extra-generous about the "stay on topic" requirement in threads about COVID-19.  However, when politics come into play, it's time to point people over to the spacious Off-Topic forum, where there is plenty of room for such discussions.  The Geocaching Topics forum is for discussing geocaching - and on that subject, people of all nations and political persuasions are united.  Thanks.

[+JL_HSTRE]

18 hours ago, Lynx Humble said:

With 50K case in the States and 409K Worldwide why Groundspeak still haven't retract all future events for a few weeks?

 

At this point I think, given the global spread, no events anywhere through the end of April is not unreasonable.

 

Considering events must publish 2 weeks in advance it's probably not practical to have Earth Day CITOs since things would need to clear up within the next week or so.

[+on4bam]

As things are going now I wouldn't expect  a "back to normal" before the end of May and then some. One of Belgium's largest music festivals the first weekend of July is in doubt. Preparations are going on but the organization is prepared for anything. It wouldn't surprise me should they already know they are going to cancel but are working out practical stuff like insurance and refunds.

[+LizzyRN]

On 3/25/2020 at 5:38 AM, on4bam said:

As things are going now I wouldn't expect  a "back to normal" before the end of May and then some. 

I will be happily surprised if GeoWoodstock isn't cancelled.

[+Touchstone]

On 3/25/2020 at 5:38 AM, on4bam said:

As things are going now I wouldn't expect  a "back to normal" before the end of May and then some. One of Belgium's largest music festivals the first weekend of July is in doubt. Preparations are going on but the organization is prepared for anything. It wouldn't surprise me should they already know they are going to cancel but are working out practical stuff like insurance and refunds.

There's only one thing dictating the time line on this issue: Biology.   One of two things will have to happen.  Herd immunity  or a viable vaccine.  The only realistic question is which one will get us to where we want to get to first.

[+LizzyRN]

30 minutes ago, Touchstone said:

Herd immunity  or a viable vaccine.  The only realistic question is which one will get us to where we want to get to first.

 

I'm voting for herd immunity! Oh wait, I didn't get a ballot.

[+Touchstone]

4 minutes ago, LizzyRN said:

 

I'm voting for herd immunity! Oh wait, I didn't get a ballot.

Unfortunately, the Herd Immunity outlook looks very similar to what happened in the Life Care Center in Kirkland, WA.  I'm putting my money on a vaccine and will be practicing "Nazi Hand Washing" (phrase borrowed from Dr. David Price from New York), and responsible social distancing until then.

[+Viajero Perdido]

I'm betting on herd immunity.  This story today out of the UK suggests it's more contagious than previously thought, but that half the population already contracted it, and is herd-immune.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/prof-who-predicted-500k-deaths-uk-has-startling-change-heart-now-predicts-under-20k-two-week

[+Touchstone]

11 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

I'm betting on herd immunity.  This story today out of the UK suggests it's more contagious than previously thought, but that half the population already contracted it, and is herd-immune.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/prof-who-predicted-500k-deaths-uk-has-startling-change-heart-now-predicts-under-20k-two-week

An interesting read, but difficult to verify his hypothesis without a sensitive and reliable antibody test to actually see how many people have actually mounted an immune response.  The one negative against his argument, which doesn't support the Herd Immunity hypothesis that was stated in the article, is the fact that a significant number of people still testing positive for the PCR test (which measures the specific targets on the virus itself) that have apparently recovered from COVID-19 in China.   Similar numbers in the UK don't seem to support his theory very well at this point.

[+bflentje]

On 3/23/2020 at 8:16 PM, niraD said:

Do you really expect everyone to stop using online tools so all the bandwidth is available to somehow be used to fight the COVID-19 virus?

 

A bit of a frenzied and exaggerated response, don't you think? Suggesting online gathering might affect bandwidth somehow equates to ALL ONLINE TOOLS.. good grief get a grip.

 

[+niraD]

3 hours ago, bflentje said:

A bit of a frenzied and exaggerated response, don't you think? Suggesting online gathering might affect bandwidth somehow equates to ALL ONLINE TOOLS.. good grief get a grip.

Back atcha...

 

You're the one who suggested that using online tools to contact one's geocaching friends was "tying up bandwidth for those working remotely doing what could be an important job in the fight against the invisible enemy."

 

I see no difference between using online tools to contact one's geocaching friends vs using online tools to contact one's family, one's boardgaming friends, one's crafting friends, one's church friends, or anyone else. And doing so isn't going to interfere with "the fight against the invisible enemy".

[+frostengel]

5 minutes ago, niraD said:

I see no difference between using online tools to contact one's geocaching friends vs using online tools to contact one's family, one's boardgaming friends, one's crafting friends, one's church friends, or anyone else.

 

And I am sure that talking to a group of persons (using little webcams) creates much less traffic as if only one of those persons would stream a video. So better close down youtube, Netflix, ...!? I didn't think bflentje's post (originally he answered to my post) were meant seriously?!

If they are, I think I might calm you down: I am sure that bad internet will not be any of our problems in the next time. For sure it will not be the main problem or be responsible for many virus deaths.

 

Keep on chatting guys. A little communication once in a while is very important for us!

[+barefootjeff]

4 minutes ago, frostengel said:

 

And I am sure that talking to a group of persons (using little webcams) creates much less traffic as if only one of those persons would stream a video. So better close down youtube, Netflix, ...!? I didn't think bflentje's post (originally he answered to my post) were meant seriously?!

If they are, I think I might calm you down: I am sure that bad internet will not be any of our problems in the next time. For sure it will not be the main problem or be responsible for many virus deaths.

 

Keep on chatting guys. A little communication once in a while is very important for us!

 

The other thing to remember is that the internet by design is a very diffuse distributed network. There's no central pool of "bandwidth" that you borrow from whenever you're using it. There are a multitude of providers and servers with a vast web of interconnects that allow data packets to move efficiently from source to destination without obstructing other packets moving elsewhere in the network. Your chatting with your caching friends is unlikely to have any effect at all on a hospital, a doctor or someone working from home as they'll in all likelihood be using a completely different bit of the network.

[+Rustynails]

I wonder how many tested false positive and reported as real? The testing is new, so I'm guessing the positive numbers we see are not very accurate.

[+Goldenwattle]

1 hour ago, rustynails. said:

I wonder how many tested false positive and reported as real? The testing is new, so I'm guessing the positive numbers we see are not very accurate.

But then there are those with it who have never been tested, and I would presume more of those than 'false positives'. They might have had only mild symptoms or none at all. Unless many more people are tested the exact numbers with it are hard to tell. It's likely the numbers are greater than being recorded.