+*GeoPunx* Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Like an absolute dope, I walked off and left my GPS on a bench a few months ago. Went back to see if it was still there. Of course it wasn't. My fault...still #feelsbadman. The whole thing soured me on placing caches for awhile, but I'm getting the itch again. I absolutely loved my unit i lost. It was a Garmin Dakota 20. They have now discontinued this model. What are some good suggestions for a new handheld that won't break the bank? Preferably touchscreen and color. I'd ideally like to stay under $250-ish since apparently I like to lose them . lol I made a cursory look around Amazon a bit ago but everything was either way out of that price range or just not to my liking in one way or another. TIA! Quote Link to comment
RuideAlmeida Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, *GeoPunx* said: What are some good suggestions for a new handheld that won't break the bank? Probably you already own a smartphone... it would be a good replacement. 1 1 Quote Link to comment
+*GeoPunx* Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 minute ago, RuideAlmeida said: Probably you already own a smartphone... it would be a good replacement. I definitely use my phone for finding caches. I just don't seem to get the accuracy I like out of my phone for actually placing my hides. 2 Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, *GeoPunx* said: What are some good suggestions for a new handheld that won't break the bank? Preferably touchscreen and color. I'd ideally like to stay under $250-ish since apparently I like to lose them . lol I made a cursory look around Amazon a bit ago but everything was either way out of that price range or just not to my liking in one way or another. Yep. We've noticed a few folks now ask about handhelds, but make a price range that says they aren't really looking that hard. I'd watch for Cabela's closeout sales and things like that. eBay has a few Dakotas, and specifying touchscreen may be worth a look time-to-time. Many refurbished modelsonline. Old as they are, still bordering your limit. Discontinued I feel, isn't always a bad thing. You can still find them online. I'm still using a refurbished handheld from 2005. Finds caches... But I feel at your price RuideAlmeida has a good bet for now. Have you used an averaging app ? Civilian GPS "accuracy" is the same whether it's a handheld or phone, "accurate" to around 10' on a good day. Quote Link to comment
+*GeoPunx* Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 Quote We've noticed a few folks now ask about handhelds, but make a price range that says they aren't really looking that hard. Not everyone has an unlimited budget. 5 minutes ago, cerberus1 said: eBay has a few Dakotas, and specifying touchscreen may be worth a look time-to-time. Saw one this morning, but it looked like it had been through the ringer. 5 minutes ago, cerberus1 said: Have you used an averaging app ? I have not. Any good suggestions for Android ones? Definitely okay with looking into that avenue. 6 minutes ago, cerberus1 said: Civilian GPS "accuracy" is the same whether it's a handheld or phone, "accurate" to around 10' on a good day. Then my phone is ready to be replaced, too. It's definitely not that accurate. lol Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, *GeoPunx* said: Saw one this morning, but it looked like it had been through the ringer. If you hope for an inexpensive handheld, you must compromise somewhere. I saved up and bought a nice one! I can't stand how jumpy my HTC U11 and iPhone 8 is, both capable phones. My Garmin handheld is more stable, or at least sets upon a location in a different way, more a matter of personal preference than anything. Plus I can take a buhzillion waypoint snapshots as fast as I like, and pick candidates easily (wish a phone App did that!). A handheld GPS just feels more like a precision instrument to me, a phone feels more like a... phone. Go figure . But as mentioned, modern updated phones that have all the appropriate sensors tend to be perfectly suited for Geocaching. But you must select the Apps and get familiar with using them. You didn't say which phone you have. Is it very out-dated? A more modern one may be faster and better at “GPS”. Specifically for finding the average of a physical spot, there are a bunch of “GPS Averaging” Apps in the Play Store. Try some and see what works for you. These Apps come and go. I bought one and it has not been updated in 4 years. Find one that has free features to test before you pay, and ideally one that seems to have an active developer. You didn't say what Apps you use for placing Geocaches. I have “Spyglass” which is not an averaging App. It allows easily saving and testing of waypoints, and it has a trial version. Edited February 5, 2020 by kunarion Quote Link to comment
+Isonzo Karst Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Android averaging app GPS Point. I don't know if it's out of beta yet, developed by geocachers. https://app.grecnar.sk/gpspoint/#header there is a difference between the antenna on your phone (any phone) and the antenna on a gps. https://forums.geocaching.com/GC/index.php?/topic/353466-best-coord-method-for-hides/&tab=comments#comment-5793809 1 Quote Link to comment
+Wet Pancake Touring Club Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 57 minutes ago, *GeoPunx* said: I definitely use my phone for finding caches. I just don't seem to get the accuracy I like out of my phone for actually placing my hides. You could also consider getting a Bluetooth GPS receiver for your phone, especially if your smart phone does not (yet) have GLONASS and/or GALILEO. I use mine with an iPod Touch, and several different laptops. Interestingly, comparing the locations shown on maps between my Pixel 3 and my iPod Touch (both with all the location services features turned on), the Touch with the BT receiver is more accurate. I didn't do any kind of formal study on this, just an observation. My guess is that the difference is between how the two devices incorporate the non-GPS based location features. Quote Link to comment
+*GeoPunx* Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 53 minutes ago, kunarion said: you must compromise somewhere. Yeah. I had just gotten spoiled with my Dakota 20. It did everything I wanted and had a color touchscreen. Price I got it for was unbeatable. 54 minutes ago, kunarion said: You didn't say which phone you have. Is it very out-dated? It's a Galaxy S6. Not super outdated, but I've been tough on it. That's a story for a different time. lol 55 minutes ago, kunarion said: “GPS Averaging” Apps in the Play Store. Try some and see what works for you. Just searched up some. Some never updated. Some with bad reviews. Once it stops storming here, I'm going to check a few out and see how they work for me. 55 minutes ago, Isonzo Karst said: Android averaging app GPS Point. I don't know if it's out of beta yet, developed by geocachers. https://app.grecnar.sk/gpspoint/#header Will check this out. Thanks for the suggestion. Quote Link to comment
RuideAlmeida Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, *GeoPunx* said: I have not. Any good suggestions for Android ones? Definitely okay with looking into that avenue. Don't miss the official app... For your own caches, just navigate to any cache, then select to create a Waypoint on the desired coordinates for a new hide. Simple when you get the hold of it. Quote Link to comment
+*GeoPunx* Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 minute ago, RuideAlmeida said: For your own caches, just navigate to any cache, then select to create a Waypoint on the desired coordinates for a new hide. I somehow never noticed this on the official app. Learn something new every day. Quote Link to comment
RuideAlmeida Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, *GeoPunx* said: I somehow never noticed this on the official app. Learn something new every day. My pleasure! Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 My opinion if you want a handheld GPSr very reasonably priced these days is the Etrex 30x which does everything (except garmin chirp) and can be had at around $130.. It's not touchscreen though. The cheapest touchscreen on the market is probably the Etrex 25 1 Quote Link to comment
+SpiritGuide Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 9 hours ago, *GeoPunx* said: 9 hours ago, *GeoPunx* said: Then my phone is ready to be replaced, too. It's definitely not that accurate. lol Or it could be the app you use. 1 Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 11 hours ago, SpiritGuide said: Or it could be the app you use. But it probably isn't. Geocaching apps just use the phones location services (built into the operating system for the phone). The accuracy is determined by the location services and how it's configured. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I was going to move this thread to the GPS forum section, but I see it's morphed into a great discussion of handheld GPS vs. Smartphone. So, I'm leaving it here. My own contributions: The OP was unaware of the ability to add waypoints to an existing cache, as a means of recording the coordinates for a new cache. Here's another tip for cache owners: create a bookmark list of all caches you own. Lists automatically show up in the app. When I'm planning to do cache maintenance, I just pull up that list on my smartphone. I still use a handheld GPS when out hiking beyond sight of my car. Nothing beats the tracklog feature, which isn't available on the official Apps. The ability to follow breadcrumbs to retrace my trail back to the car has rescued me from the deep woods on multiple occasions. I use the smartphone app, integrated with my car's screen display, to navigate to parking. I then turn on the GPS at the beginning of my hike. I use the smartphone for looking at old logs, hints, and photos if I have trouble finding the cache. It's a matter of finding the right tool for the job, and for me, having more tools is better. 3 4 Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, Keystone said: I still use a handheld GPS when out hiking beyond sight of my car. Nothing beats the tracklog feature, which isn't available on the official Apps. It's also much easier to "mark your car" with a handheld GPS than the non-intuitive way that the official apps uses which requires you to bring up a unrelated cache and add a waypoint. 1 Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said: It's also much easier to "mark your car" with a handheld GPS than the non-intuitive way that the official apps uses which requires you to bring up a unrelated cache and add a waypoint. Yeah, and as a bonus, cache owners wouldn't need to get coordinates by adding waypoints to unrelated caches. But this feature has been suggested for years, and Groundspeak still hasn't added it. Even though it's a basic feature of every other geocaching app that I've used... 1 Quote Link to comment
+icezebra11 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) OP - If you are ok with going with a used unit, look at the Garmin Oregon 450 or 450T. Touch screen, easy to use, even runs Wherigo cartridges. I see a bunch of them on eBay for under $100. Edited February 6, 2020 by icezebra11 1 Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Keystone said: I was going to move this thread to the GPS forum section, but I see it's morphed into a great discussion of handheld GPS vs. Smartphone. So, I'm leaving it here. My own contributions: The OP was unaware of the ability to add waypoints to an existing cache, as a means of recording the coordinates for a new cache. Here's another tip for cache owners: create a bookmark list of all caches you own. Lists automatically show up in the app. When I'm planning to do cache maintenance, I just pull up that list on my smartphone. I still use a handheld GPS when out hiking beyond sight of my car. Nothing beats the tracklog feature, which isn't available on the official Apps. The ability to follow breadcrumbs to retrace my trail back to the car has rescued me from the deep woods on multiple occasions. I use the smartphone app, integrated with my car's screen display, to navigate to parking. I then turn on the GPS at the beginning of my hike. I use the smartphone for looking at old logs, hints, and photos if I have trouble finding the cache. It's a matter of finding the right tool for the job, and for me, having more tools is better. +1 Lists are how I manage the database. I hand-pick the caches I want to hunt, and they're in a List on the phone, when all of the town's caches are on the Garmin. I use the phone for routing with traffic updates to a cache area. Which one I use at the cache depends on many things, such as which function I need, whether I have data service, what was pre-loaded, or the need for satellite maps or photos. I use the handheld GPS most of the time, but I switch between handheld and phone for trickier hides. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 3 hours ago, niraD said: Yeah, and as a bonus, cache owners wouldn't need to get coordinates by adding waypoints to unrelated caches. But this feature has been suggested for years, and Groundspeak still hasn't added it. Even though it's a basic feature of every other geocaching app that I've used... I've wonder if they intentionally have not implemented a "Mark Waypoint" feature easily accessible from the main screen to discourage using smart phones to capture a location for hiding a cache. I think it's pretty obvious that most geocachers these day use a smart phone, which would most likely mean that most of the new caches hidden use coordinates captured with a smart phone. If the official app implemented a "Mark Waypoint" feature it could include a built in averaging function, which most good handheld GPS devices support, but the usage not enforced. 1 Quote Link to comment
+SpiritGuide Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 12 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said: But it probably isn't. Geocaching apps just use the phones location services (built into the operating system for the phone). The accuracy is determined by the location services and how it's configured. No, developers can configure location services differently for frequency and accuracy. Two different apps on the same phone pointing to the same cache can have different results. I'm an app developer. 1 Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 10 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said: I've wonder if they intentionally have not implemented a "Mark Waypoint" feature easily accessible from the main screen to discourage using smart phones to capture a location for hiding a cache. I think it's pretty obvious that most geocachers these day use a smart phone, which would most likely mean that most of the new caches hidden use coordinates captured with a smart phone. With The App as a way to try out Geocaching to see if you can find a cache without obligation, it makes sense that it's not a cache hiding App. People may prefer to use a handheld GPS in their situation, or a different App or combination of Apps and devices that have the features they like. And if this is the first time you've tried a "Geocaching App", the part about marking a waypoint is tricky. I've seen some caches hidden by new users using phone "waypoints", where the cache location is 2 miles or more from the posted coordinates. I'm not saying that there won't or should not be more features in The App. But if I don't need them, a lot of other people don't either. Go ahead and fix the bugs ya got first. Quote Link to comment
+IceColdUK Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, kunarion said: With The App as a way to try out Geocaching to see if you can find a cache without obligation, it makes sense that it's not a cache hiding App. People may prefer to use a handheld GPS in their situation, or a different App or combination of Apps and devices that have the features they like. And if this is the first time you've tried a "Geocaching App", the part about marking a waypoint is tricky. I've seen some caches hidden by new users using phone "waypoints", where the cache location is 2 miles or more from the posted coordinates. I'm not saying that there won't or should not be more features in The App. But if I don't need them, a lot of other people don't either. Go ahead and fix the bugs ya got first. Yet, Groundspeak do explain the roundabout method to get coordinates using their App: https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=128&pgid=673 I’d say the reason (some) new users create caches with dodgy coordinates is precisely because there isn’t a more intuitive way of getting them from the App. The really dodgy coords I’ve seen are not primarily an issue with phone accuracy, changing conditions, lack of averaging, etc.; it’s because the user has struggled to grab coordinates from some other inappropriate tool (Google Maps, say) and entered them into the new cache page in the wrong format. Sorry, this thread is veering badly off topic. ☹️ Edited February 7, 2020 by IceColdUK Off topic! Quote Link to comment
+*GeoPunx* Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 On 2/7/2020 at 5:42 AM, IceColdUK said: Sorry, this thread is veering badly off topic. lol. Okay with me. It's a nice discussion, and no one is currently being a bung hole. On topic: I'm going to upgrade my phone first and see how that does. Then possibly look into a used handheld that has what I want. Back off topic in relation to apps: I really miss cachesense. Hands down the best geocaching app ever. It had an easy way to get coords if needed, and to me, the best feature ever: a saturation layer to help when determining proximity issues when placing new hides. 1 Quote Link to comment
+JohnCNA Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 23 hours ago, *GeoPunx* said: Back off topic in relation to apps: I really miss cachesense. Hands down the best geocaching app ever. It had an easy way to get coords if needed, and to me, the best feature ever: a saturation layer to help when determining proximity issues when placing new hides. I loved CacheSense too. You might like GCDroid. Has an 'add waypoint' and 'average waypoint' function on the main screen. These get saved as free-standing waypoints, not connected to a geocache. Perfect for marking where you parked or placing a new cache. You can also add child waypoints to a geocache entry, same as with the Groundspeak app. And you can turn on '.1 mile circles' to display on the map to display proximity. 2 Quote Link to comment
+*GeoPunx* Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/9/2020 at 10:09 AM, JohnCNA said: And you can turn on '.1 mile circles' to display on the map to display proximity. This, to me, is such a valuable tool when hiding my own caches! Thanks for the heads up on the app. I have seen it before on the play store, but never tried it out. Quote Link to comment
+Viajero Perdido Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, *GeoPunx* said: This, to me, is such a valuable tool when hiding my own caches! Thanks for the heads up on the app. I have seen it before on the play store, but never tried it out. Locus Map does proximity circles too. (It's a map+caching app for Android. For iOS, I believe Cachly has the feature.) Edited February 11, 2020 by Viajero Perdido 1 Quote Link to comment
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