Paying entrance fee in order to find virtual info

[+Deepdiggingmole]

Can I just have clarification regarding whether it is allowed to expect an entrance fee to be paid in order to gather information to answer questions for a virtual - I am not talking about older virtuals where the rules were not so defined - I can not see anything on the help page, but had heard it was not allowed. I may have heard wrong so just asking for clarification

Many thanks

 

[+The red-haired witch]

It can be ok if it is a small amount and if it is paid to a non-profit or to a government agency.

 

Entry fees into a national park for example.

 

 

[geoawareUSA9]

35 minutes ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

Can I just have clarification regarding whether it is allowed to expect an entrance fee to be paid in order to gather information to answer questions for a virtual - I am not talking about older virtuals where the rules were not so defined - I can not see anything on the help page, but had heard it was not allowed. I may have heard wrong so just asking for clarification

Many thanks

 

It sounds like you are planning to place a cache, correct?

 

@The red-haired witch is spot on for the general rule on fees:

 

26 minutes ago, The red-haired witch said:

It can be ok if it is a small amount and if it is paid to a non-profit or to a government agency.

 

Entry fees into a national park for example.

 

It should typically not be to a commercial, for-profit business, unless Groundspeak has some sort of commercial arrangement with the business.

 

What is a small fee?  It is interpreted differently in different areas.  The general rule is anything $10 US or less, but local reviewers have some leeway.  I recommend contacting yours with the details on the entry fee amount and who is collecting it.

[+ras_oscar]

The custom of not placing caches in areas that requiring entrance fee arises from the possibility of unscrupulous business owners attempting to increase their traffic by placing caches inside their businesses and requiring an entrance fee to score the find. Geocaching is only supposed to be monetized by Groundspeak. Which is one reason why, for instance, there are no geocaches In Epcot ( permission is likely another issue, but lets ignore that or now  )

[+IceColdUK]

Not sure whether it sidestepped the guidelines, but a Virtual that requires entrance to the Eiffel Tower was published in 2017, and that costs 25 Euros.

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC7B9JV_at-the-top-of-the-eiffel-tower

[+Touchstone]

I think that this is one of those areas where Reviewer judgement probably comes into play.  I know in my area, places like Yosemite National Park ($30.00 US) and Alcatraz National Park (~$40.00 US) can get up there in terms of entrance fees (and ferry ride for Alcatraz, as private water craft are not allowed to land at the dock).  Both are run by government agencies, so there's probably some consideration for that fact.

 

On the other hand, Disneyland (~$97.00 US) has some older Virts, and I don't think that sort of thing would pass Review nowadays for both its commercial nature and the relatively high entrance fee.

 

Seems like the line is drawn mostly along Government/Non profit and obviously commercial and private.  Some leeway for Earthcaches is allowed on this topic, but that may depend on how unique the geologic feature is.   I'm not sure where the ceiling on cost is on that particular issue.

 

YMMV

[+Deepdiggingmole]

2 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

Not sure whether it sidestepped the guidelines, but a Virtual that requires entrance to the Eiffel Tower was published in 2017, and that costs 25 Euros.

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC7B9JV_at-the-top-of-the-eiffel-tower

 

 

I spotted that one when it first came out and did query it then - but as you say seems to have slipped through

[+Wet Pancake Touring Club]

Also note, there may be multiple options for park fees. For example, a one-day pass to a Washington State Park is $10. However, you can purchase an annual pass for $30. My point, if there is more than one fee level, I would suggest including a note on the cache listing either explaining that there are multiple fee options, and providing a link to the agency charging the fee. Sometimes there are different in-state versus out-of-state fees.

 

Primarily because of geocaching, I currently pay $120 per year for state (WA and ID) and federal (US) annual passes. I don't consider that too onerous. Of course, the definition of onerous depends on ones situation. (That is soon to change. In a month I qualify for the over 62 $80 lifetime federal pass.)

[+Isonzo Karst]

2 hours ago, Wet Pancake Touring Club said:

a note on the cache listing either explaining that there are multiple fee options, and providing a link to the agency charging the fee.

 

;-) or not, given that  the cache page content guidelines has in the not allowed section:

Links or logos of agencies and organizations (including nonprofit organizations), unless needed for permission. 

[+ras_oscar]

As a personal data point, if I rolled up to GZ and saw an entrance fee I would probably turn around and add it to my ignore list. But that's just me

[+cerberus1]

3 hours ago, ras_oscar said:

As a personal data point, if I rolled up to GZ and saw an entrance fee I would probably turn around and add it to my ignore list. But that's just me

 

We've done similar if we didn't plan on an all-day outing.  One cache (I feel) isn't worth it unless we intended to do something else while there.

We don't have fees in our state parks, but many states around us do.   

[+The Jester]

14 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

We've done similar if we didn't plan on an all-day outing.  One cache (I feel) isn't worth it unless we intended to do something else while there.

We don't have fees in our state parks, but many states around us do.   

It does depend on the fee - under $5 it's no big deal.  It's one of the things I like about the Lifetime Senior Pass to the National Parks, I can stop by one any time, for any amount of time, and not feel "abused". 

 

When we were going for the oldest cache in MD, as we pulled up to the entrance station (with our trailer) they asked if were camping there.  We said no, just a little geocaching, they said Oh, we don't charge for geocachers.

 

[+Max and 99]

2 hours ago, The Jester said:

It does depend on the fee - under $5 it's no big deal.  It's one of the things I like about the Lifetime Senior Pass to the National Parks, I can stop by one any time, for any amount of time, and not feel "abused". 

 

When we were going for the oldest cache in MD, as we pulled up to the entrance station (with our trailer) they asked if were camping there.  We said no, just a little geocaching, they said Oh, we don't charge for geocachers.

 

Oh wow! That's nice. 

 

I need to look up that Lifetime Senior Pass. Max is approaching eligibility.

[+The Jester]

6 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Oh wow! That's nice. 

 

I need to look up that Lifetime Senior Pass. Max is approaching eligibility.

It's the same as a one year pass (currently $80) but is good for the life of the owner (if you lose it though, you have to buy a new one, no replacements).  I got mine when it was just $10, but it's still a great deal.

[+JL_HSTRE]

While we're on the subject: would a Virtual at a lighthouse that requires a photo taken at the top of the lighthouse be approved? (By top I mean the gallery / observation deck, not the roof!) Would it depend who owned the lighthouse?

 

Lighthouses are variously owned/operated by federal, state, or local governments or non-profits. A few are privately owned (the one in Hilton Head, SC for example). Just about every one has an admission fee to climb.

[+kunarion]

7 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

While we're on the subject: would a Virtual at a lighthouse that requires a photo taken at the top of the lighthouse be approved? (By top I mean the gallery / observation deck, not the roof!) Would it depend who owned the lighthouse?

 

Lighthouses are variously owned/operated by federal, state, or local governments or non-profits. A few are privately owned (the one in Hilton Head, SC for example). Just about every one has an admission fee to climb.

 

I don't know specifically about Virtuals in lighthouses.  But I've seen Geocaches where you get in for free if you're doing the Geocache.  Where the plan is to go in, do the cache and leave.  If you can swing that deal, it just might make cache publication go more smoothly. 

[+kunarion]

On 1/31/2020 at 8:59 AM, ras_oscar said:

As a personal data point, if I rolled up to GZ and saw an entrance fee I would probably turn around and add it to my ignore list. But that's just me

 

I was tempted to turn back at Jekyll Island.  A couple of years ago, I had reservations for two nights at a hotel there, and arrived to an entrance gate.  $8.00 per day to get onto Jekyll Island (and hotel reservations don't count as entrance validation).  I did not know that there was a fee until I saw that gate, and I had done all the other touristy research I thought of.  The loophole is that you pay no more for additional days if you don't leave/return.  So I stayed there for the duration. 

 

There are caches there, but allowed because it's an island fee.  Government fee.  Whatever.  I didn't ignore the caches. 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by kunarion

[+NYPaddleCacher]

On 2/1/2020 at 5:28 PM, kunarion said:

 

I don't know specifically about Virtuals in lighthouses.  But I've seen Geocaches where you get in for free if you're doing the Geocache.  Where the plan is to go in, do the cache and leave.  If you can swing that deal, it just might make cache publication go more smoothly. 

 

There was a cache in a State park that normally had a small entrance fee about 35 miles from here.  I stopped at the entry kiosk and asked the attendant if I could just drive through the park to check it out for later.  He was fine with it.  

[+The Jester]

1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

There was a cache in a State park that normally had a small entrance fee about 35 miles from here.  I stopped at the entry kiosk and asked the attendant if I could just drive through the park to check it out for later.  He was fine with it.  

Most State Parks here in Washington charge, but you can get in for a few minutes to use the bathroom.  I've grabbed a picture needed that was close the restrooms after using them.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Just now, The Jester said:

Most State Parks here in Washington charge, but you can get in for a few minutes to use the bathroom.  I've grabbed a picture needed that was close the restrooms after using them.

 

One of your nicest state parks in the area (which includes a 200+ foot high waterfall) doesn't staff the entrance kiosk during the winter  but the park stays open (some of the main trails are closed though).