Release Notes (Website: Update Coordinates log) - December 17, 2019

[+Geocaching HQ]

Release Notes (Website: Update Coordinates log) - December 17, 2019
 
With today’s release, cache owners must use the new logging flow for the Update Coordinates log on owned geocaches.  
 
This is due to some changes that were required to make it possible to log the new cache Find Signal the Frog® - Locationless in 2020. (See the Geocaching Blog for more about the Locationless Cache.) We weren’t able to keep the Update Coordinates log working in the old logging flow while also making it possible to log the Locationless Cache in mobile apps.

 

If you're using the old logging flow, it will look like this:

 

 

 

To access the new logging flow, click the “Try it now” in the blue banner on the Post a New Log page. If you wish, you can opt out of the new logging flow after using it.

 

If you're using the new logging experience, it will look like this and you'll be able to use the Update Coordinates log as expected:

 

 

 

Sven (Bl4ckH4wkGER) and Chris (Rock Chalk) are watching this thread to answer questions whenever possible.
 
Any posts in this thread should relate to features in this release. Comments unrelated to the release may be removed. Please direct unrelated comments to other appropriate threads. Thanks!

[+Max and 99]

13 minutes ago, Geocaching HQ said:

The Update Coordinates log still appears in the old logging flow dropdown, but fields for entering new coordinates do not appear. 

They look like they are there. 

 

14 minutes ago, Geocaching HQ said:

 
To access the new logging flow, click the “Try it now” in the blue banner on the Post a New Log page. If you wish, you can opt out of the new logging flow after using it.

I can't find this. Can you include a screenshot?

[+Bl4ckH4wkGER]

@Max and 99 

If you don't see the banner and see the update coordinate logs and coordinate fields as before, you are using the new logging flow and have nothing to worry about  

[+Max and 99]

How do I opt out, if I want to?

[+The A-Team]

29 minutes ago, Geocaching HQ said:

The Update Coordinates log still appears in the old logging flow dropdown, but fields for entering new coordinates do not appear.

 

Like Max and 99 said, the fields still appear on the old logging form. In fact, when I select "Update Coordinates" as the log type, the "Add a coordinate to this log" box is automatically checked like it always has.

 

That being said, unless I'm totally missing something, why not simply remove the "Update Coordinates" option entirely from the old logging form for COs? Leaving it there but broken will foreseeably lead to issues.

[+Viajero Perdido]

Thank you for not simply abandoning the "old logging flow".

 

Every so often I find myself looking at the new version, and I hit the Opt Out button faster than you can imagine.

 

It keeps the peace.

[+Max and 99]

The screenshots helped! 

[+JL_HSTRE]

19 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

Thank you for not simply abandoning the "old logging flow".

 

Every so often I find myself looking at the new version, and I hit the Opt Out button faster than you can imagine.

 

I find the new logging is better sometimes (attaching photos) and the old logging is better other times (NM/NA logs).

[+bergpeserl]

Maybe this change is the reason that I cannot edit coordinates in my cachelisting - even before it is reviewed. 

I cannot change any coordinates when editing a cachelisting that has not yet been published.
If I make changes in the listing before I send the cache to the reviewer and then click on SAVE or SAVE and EXIT, the changes in the listing text are saved, but not the posted coordinates (header coordinates and also final coordinates)

[+Isonzo Karst]

@bergpeserl  Changes on coordinates of unpublished listings are made on the edit form - not by log.  

 

That form is VERY fussy about the formatting of coordinates!  The edit form only accept H DD MM.mmm   You don't need to type in the ° mark, but you do need to be careful about spaces!

I just tried these coords on an unpublished cache of mine, and it rejected them: N  27 40.933 W  79 25.880  - too many spaces between W and 79.  It's the worst coords entry field on this site, or any other site that I use.

On the edit form, if you change the cache type, you may lose any additional waypoints.

 

When you first write up a cache on the cache report form, that form will accept H DD MM.mmm or DD.ddddd or DD MM SS.sss and will convert for you.

None of this is related to  "old logging" and the loss of the update coordinates log.

[+Team Geofrog]

Did this also wipe out the “Add a coordinate to your log” feature as well in the old logging flow?

Edited December 24, 2019 by Team Geofrog
Hit save in error.

[+Bl4ckH4wkGER]

@Team Geofrog That is correct. That is the change that made the Update Coordinate non-functional in the old logging flow, too.

[+The A-Team]

2 hours ago, Bl4ckH4wkGER said:

@Team Geofrog That is correct. That is the change that made the Update Coordinate non-functional in the old logging flow, too.

 

That's unfortunate. I used that feature somewhat often when providing coordinates that I believed may be better. Were only 200 people using this feature?

 

I understand forcing owners to use the edit form to update coordinates. What I don't understand is accomplishing this by breaking the "Update coordinates" log type and then leaving it there, as well as removing a function that was being used by members. A better way would have been to simply remove "Update coordinates" as an option and leave the "Add a coordinate" feature in place. Now we have a broken log type and a lost feature, both of which are detrimental to the members.

[+Bl4ckH4wkGER]

@The A-Team

 

The "Add a coordinate" feature was legacy functionality that was required for logging Locationless Caches. It was not possible to log a Locationless Caches without adding coordinates to your log. Doing so was only possible in the old logging flow, not in the new logging flow, nor the mobile apps. This is why this feature came to our attention ahead of the 2020 Locationless Cache launch. The cache had to be available and loggable on all platforms.

 

It is true that the feature was also adopted by the community to provide coordinates they believed were better. The problem with coordinates entered this way is that they are only visible on the website. They are not visible on GPS devices or most mobile apps. The resulting situation was that players would read "See the corrected coordinates in my log." However, they would be unable to see said coordinates because the information was in an unavailable data field. Additionally, a constantly decreasing numbers of geocachers made use of this functionality as fewer and fewer were aware of its existence.

 

Technically, the retirement of Locationless Caches in 2005 made this field no longer essential outside of updating coordinates as a cache owner. In order to make the 2020 Locationless Cache loggable in the new logging flow and on mobile apps the dependencies had to be removed and with it went the "Add a coordinate" field.

 

An upcoming release after the holidays will fully remove the Update Coordinate logtype from the old logging flow to avoid the confusion described by you and others above. We will update these release notes at the time.

 

Going forward, we suggest to post your better coordinate suggestions in your actual log text. That way they will be more accessible to all your fellow geocachers.

[+The A-Team]

Thanks for the explanation, @Bl4ckH4wkGER. I didn't know that the feature was originally part of the Locationless logging (I started a few years after they were all retired), nor that it was effectively co-opted for the purpose of suggesting better coordinates.

 

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 12:46 PM, Bl4ckH4wkGER said:

An upcoming release after the holidays will fully remove the Update Coordinate logtype from the old logging flow to avoid the confusion described by you and others above. We will update these release notes at the time.

Thanks for letting us know. In the future, it might be a good idea to synchronize changes like these to avoid a period where a feature is simply broken.

 

Quote

Going forward, we suggest to post your better coordinate suggestions in your actual log text. That way they will be more accessible to all your fellow geocachers.

That's what I've been doing for quite a while due to the accessibility limitations you mentioned. Still, I would also use the "Add a coordinate..." feature because it jumped out more easily when scanning through logs. My preference would have been for this feature to be retained and made available via the API, but I'll survive without it.

[+Bl4ckH4wkGER]

The Update Coordinate log type has now been fully removed from the dropdown in the old logging flow.

The release notes have been updated. Thank you for your patience.

[SillySailor]

On 12/24/2019 at 8:46 PM, Bl4ckH4wkGER said:

@The A-Team

 

The "Add a coordinate" feature was legacy functionality that was required for logging Locationless Caches. It was not possible to log a Locationless Caches without adding coordinates to your log. Doing so was only possible in the old logging flow, not in the new logging flow, nor the mobile apps. This is why this feature came to our attention ahead of the 2020 Locationless Cache launch. The cache had to be available and loggable on all platforms.

 

It is true that the feature was also adopted by the community to provide coordinates they believed were better. The problem with coordinates entered this way is that they are only visible on the website. They are not visible on GPS devices or most mobile apps.

 

It's not true that they are only visible on the website. They are placed in the .GPX file for the cache. They are displayed by both my current GPS (a Garmin GPSMAP 66ST) and my previous GPS (a Garmin GPSMAP 62stc that I got in 2013). I would be surprised if any Garmin GPS from the last 7 years doesn't display them. They are also displayed by the cgeo app on my mobile phone.

 

On both GPS and the mobile phone, when present, they are displayed before the entered log text. This means they are easy to spot when scrolling through previous logs.

It is much harder to spot better coordinates if entered as part of the log text.

 

Losing the ability to log better coordinates into the field in .GPX files specifically for the purpose is a BAD thing and I hope this function will be brought back.

 

On 12/24/2019 at 8:46 PM, Bl4ckH4wkGER said:

 

The resulting situation was that players would read "See the corrected coordinates in my log." However, they would be unable to see said coordinates because the information was in an unavailable data field.

 

 

Which GPS or app doesn't display the coordinates?

 

On 12/24/2019 at 8:46 PM, Bl4ckH4wkGER said:

 

Additionally, a constantly decreasing numbers of geocachers made use of this functionality as fewer and fewer were aware of its existence.

 

Probably because one of the limitations of the "new logging experience" on the website was that it doesn't have the functionality. I don't know about apps as I do my logging when back on a computer with a large screen.

 

I used the functionality. e.g for https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC882C8_secret-squirrel  in December.

 

 

On 12/24/2019 at 8:46 PM, Bl4ckH4wkGER said:

 

Technically, the retirement of Locationless Caches in 2005 made this field no longer essential outside of updating coordinates as a cache owner. In order to make the 2020 Locationless Cache loggable in the new logging flow and on mobile apps the dependencies had to be removed and with it went the "Add a coordinate" field.

 

An upcoming release after the holidays will fully remove the Update Coordinate logtype from the old logging flow to avoid the confusion described by you and others above. We will update these release notes at the time.

 

Going forward, we suggest to post your better coordinate suggestions in your actual log text. That way they will be more accessible to all your fellow geocachers.

 

As I said above placing better coordinate suggestions in the actual log text makes them LESS accessible as they get missed when within the log text.

 

Please re-consider and bring back entering coordinates using specific log entry field.

 

p.s. I  have read blog. I would have made the moving mascot or banner a trackable and not a one off cache type.

 

[+Harry Dolphin]

On 12/24/2019 at 3:46 PM, Bl4ckH4wkGER said:

The "Add a coordinate" feature was legacy functionality that was required for logging Locationless Caches. It was not possible to log a Locationless Caches without adding coordinates to your log. Doing so was only possible in the old logging flow, not in the new logging flow, nor the mobile apps. This is why this feature came to our attention ahead of the 2020 Locationless Cache launch. The cache had to be available and loggable on all platforms.

 

But, then, the new 2020 Locationless Cache is not really a locationless cache!  Only one find per item permissable.  The updated coords were to show that the same item (Signal) was not logged twice.  So, Signal is NOT a Locationless cache!  And this has ruined corrected coordinates for other cache.  Signal is NOT a Locationless Cache!  It violates the requirements.  Change it to something like a 'Virtual'.

[+Max and 99]

5 hours ago, SillySailor said:

p.s. I  have read blog. I would have made the moving mascot or banner a trackable and not a one off cache type.

What a great idea!