GPS device too old? Possibilities?

[4Glückskinder4]

Hi,

 

I own a Garmin Edge 810, formerly used for biking. Now I want to use it for geocaching and I tried to find my first caches. ATM I want to find a cache in the woods with a clearing here and some clearing there - but the GPS device is not as precise as I would need it, my smartphone is worse. The Garmin seems to update itself slowly  and if I'm on the very exact position, I can find nothing (or did the Garmin not update, yet)? It's somewhat laborious.

I know that a cache could be destroyed and that a GPS device does not need to show the very exact position, most of all in the woods or between houses and so on But I'm wondering if somebody can find a small cache within 20 meters in the woods, blackberry bushes everywhere... Maybe I'm at the wrong coordinates, but at least I have to be able to rely on my GPS, right?

 

So my questions: are more recent GPS devices better in the woods (does someone have a recommondation)?  What kind of other possibilities do I have to determine a more exact position if GPS is bad/not available?

 

Best regards, Alex

 

[+colleda]

You are assuming that the given coordinates are exact or correct, they rarely are. Generally, you can assume you are within about 10 metres so put the GPS away and start searching for possible hiding places.

 

 

[+cerberus1]

 

I don't think it's too old, but IIRC it's a bike gps, and not really designed for geocaching.

 - Though most GPS will at least let you mark a waypoint.

I thought I remembered "EasyGPS" has a work-around to load for that model.

 

Civilian GPS is "accurate" to around 10 feet.

Over the years, electronics and antennas have improved, but it's still 10 feet. 

In '04, we had a blue legend that would lose signal every time we went under a tree.

 - Just one year later, a 60csx got signal in the basement.  I'm in gorges, and under heavy tree cover, and get a signal fine.

I still use the 60csx, and the legend is in the truck for a spare (it works).  

I'd think that any model that mentions geocaching in it's functions after (oh, let's say...) '09 should be fine.

Many models, buttons or touchscreen ... it's just what you're comfortable with.

Most modern phones are just as accurate as a handheld GPSr today.

[+cerberus1]

5 hours ago, 4Glückskinder4 said:

What kind of other possibilities do I have to determine a more exact position if GPS is bad/not available?

 

Hints and the cache description might help.   Just common sense really.  Expect most don't average their coordinates, and you're 20 feet off.

We just put the GPS away when we got around 20 feet and start looking. 

I didn't think basic members could find caches higher than 2, yet you found a 3/2 and a 3/4.5 .    Caching with someone ?

Looking for lower-rated 2/2 or less, and larger than a micro for a while will probably help get you figuring what to look for.  

[+msrubble]

Hallo, 4Glückskinder4.

 

I have not used an Edge, so you would know better than I if there is an orientation in which it gets the best reception. Long ago, some GPS units worked best if held vertical, while others were more accurate when held parallel to the ground.

 

Have you checked to make sure it is not trying to lock on to the nearest road?

[4Glückskinder4]

Hi,

ok, thank you for the hints and suggestions! At the weekend we'll take another shot. Yesterday it was too late already as it was getting dark and the kids were impatient and were a little scared in the dark forest - after I made some creepy moaning noises, it was over. 

 

And yes, the Edge is a bike (only) GPS - not very comfortable for geocaching, I think (does not accept hddd°mm.mmm for example ). But I can enter the coordinates for a position at least. I'll test it a little bit in a free field area to get a better idea how accurate it could be and perhaps I can borrow an eTrex touch 35 for some testing/comparision from a friend.

 

Furthermore we'll have to be more patient within the final area. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by 4Glückskinder4

[+hzoi]

Greetings from Wiesbaden!

 

While it is possible to go geocaching with an older GPSr - in 2007 we started out with a Garmin GPS 12, which was about the size of a small brick and came out about 20 years ago! - it is certainly easier when the GPSr is more responsive.  I have tried using various Garmin running watches to geocache, and they have not been very helpful - in fact, they functioned a lot like my old GPS 12, just smaller.  I suspect that they, and perhaps also the Edge 810, are designed less for navigation to a point, and more for navigating along a route. 

 

Some sports GPSr's have a default setting to only get a GPS signal read every five seconds or so, in order to preserve battery life.  You may check to see if this is the case with your Edge.  If there is a way to change the settings so that it constantly receives the signal, that may help improve things for you. 

 

When we started geocaching, it did not take us long to realize that we needed a GPSr that was better suited to navigating in the woods.  We have since owned a Garmin 60CSx, a Garmin Oregon 450, and a Garmin Montana 600.  All those, however, were purchased before we had a good smart phone.  And while we still use our Montana for geocaching, we use our phone increasingly more often.

 

If you have a smart phone, you may be better served using an geocaching app, either the official Groundspeak app or the third party app of your choice.  I would definitely recommend looking into an app before investing in a stand alone GPSr.

 

Also, the more you geocache, they better you will be at figuring out where a cache might be hidden, and seeing where things may have been rearranged to hide a container.  But to start out, as recommended above, it can be easier to limit your search to larger containers until you get the hang of it.

Edited December 19, 2019 by hzoi

[+Isonzo Karst]

13 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

I didn't think basic members could find caches higher than 2, yet you found a 3/2 and a 3/4.5

 

Going a bit sideways from the original post; the Geocaching.com smartphone app shows basic members Trads and Events, Trads limited to 2/2 and under.

 

The website shows everything that isn't PMO.   from the site  a basic member can download a full gpx (individually, from cache page, I don't know if there's a limit on that, I'm not going to try and find out either) once you've got the gpx, depending on device, can load to it. Or handload coords, print page, take some notes... . 

 

Other API partner apps load up to 3 requested Trads daily, of any D/T,  user loads/requests them to device by  GC Code. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Isonzo Karst

[+BethDaddyKaty]

Are you using the official app?

 

For me that never works very accurately, accuracy shows (and is) to the nearest 10 metres or so, less under tree cover.

 

Instead especially for forest caches I use Columbus (poorer UI but free) or more recently Geooh (paid app, but better interface). They are usually accurate to 2-3 metres.

 

I did ask a while back about the discrepancy. My guess is that the official app only uses GPS whereas the third party app uses Android's location, which also factors in triangulation from masts, which is much more accurate under tree cover. But I don't know for sure. Either way there is always some Chinese whispers involved. Civilian GPS is limited to 3 metre accuracy. So even if the CO provides correct co-ordinates, their margin of error + yours could mean you are several metres off.

 

Of course quite often the co-ordinates are totally wrong for tree cover caches, and the hint is "look in the tree" or similar. So your only chance of getting it is via logs. I had one that was about 20 metres out - co-ords took you to a park, the cache was behind a thick hedge and in trees. Must have been a tenacious FTFer to get that one.

[+Rustynails]

The trusty handheld GPS is the way to go. Phones are unreliable with limited battery power. To many times we see newbie hides that are 100s of feet off. I only use my phone for lab caches and talking to people. Yes, you can actually speak to another person with no needing to type many letters.

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, rustynails. said:

Phones are unreliable with limited battery power.

There are ways to address that limitation. And if you're looking for only a couple caches a day, who cares?

 

1 hour ago, rustynails. said:

To many times we see newbie hides that are 100s of feet off.

I've used my phone with an app that does waypoint averaging, and gotten coordinates that were virtually identical to the coordinates my handheld GPS produced.

 

And I've seen coordinates that were 100s of feet off, where no phone was used.

[+cerberus1]

13 hours ago, rustynails. said:

The trusty handheld GPS is the way to go. Phones are unreliable with limited battery power.

To many times we see newbie hides that are 100s of feet off.

I only use my phone for lab caches and talking to people. Yes, you can actually speak to another person with no needing to type many letters.

 

That's odd, the other 2/3rds uses an "older" iphone 8 , and she's got enough "power" left back to the truck (where she plugs into the inverter).

She's proven time n again when caching with others (using GPSrs...) that's there's little to no difference in "reliability" or accuracy. 

The only times we've seen issues with battery-life is in extreme cold (she simply places the phone inside her coat...), and overnighters.

We do see issues with newbs being off too, but we feel it's because they often "wing it" instead of reading handy Help Center examples. 

Some odd reason a lot want to hide a cache right away, rather than find some first.

The other 2/3rds final caching day was a hide 400 feet off.  She found it, but got tire of beta-testing for new folks unwilling to learn the hobby..

 - The newb no hides or finds CO didn't know there was such a thing as a Help Center.  People were unreliable, not their phones.

 

I've never done a lab cache.   Since they didn't count for anything earlier, I just thought why bother now. 

 - But I have used a phone off n on for caching with no issues, and just prefer a GPSr.  

 

[Rosen and Rosen]

I have a 60csx, site says not supported. any solutions or do i need a new unit. what is a good unit for under $200.00

[+cerberus1]

4 hours ago, Rosen and Rosen said:

I have a 60csx, site says not supported. any solutions or do i need a new unit. what is a good unit for under $200.00

 

I've used a 60csx since '05, and load caches manually, with some notes, hints and things that happened during the day on a small notepad.

 - That's a solution. 

Since this "privacy" thing, I still can't get onto anyone's profile tabs, so can't see the daily caching (other than count...) you do to see if it'd work.

 - But loading manually only takes about a minute each...

I'd look for sales online if you feel you really need to upgrade now.  Sticking with that type,  the  64s should get you around your price point.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

On 1/7/2020 at 7:28 PM, Rosen and Rosen said:

I have a 60csx, site says not supported. any solutions or do i need a new unit. what is a good unit for under $200.00

 

The 60csx was considered the gold standard for quite a few years after I started in 2007.     I'm not sure why the site says that it's not supported, but it may be that the "Send to Garmin" feature doesn't work on the 60Csx.  However as a premium member (using pocket queries to download cache data) it would work fine.  It may not be as geocaching friendly as some of the newer models.  That just might require reading cache listings before you go out, and keeping a notebook for information about specific caches that you would have access to in real time if using a smartphone and app.  In terms of ruggedness, battery life, ease of use, and even accuracy a 60Csx is still a very viable option for geocaching.

 

I would recommend using a waypoint manager such as GSAK (for windows), Garmin Basecamp, or EasyGPS to manage geocache data.  Send cache data from the website to the waypoint manager then  send/receive data to/from the GPS device.

Edited February 24, 2020 by NYPaddleCacher