Blog Post: Hints on geocache hints

[+niraD]

There's a new post on the official blog:

Quote

 

Hints on geocache hints

 

Geocaching hints are meant to offer a little extra nudge when searching for the cache. Perhaps the container is hidden somewhere with a lot of muggle traffic so you need to be quick, or maybe it’s the classic nano in the woods. Regardless of the reason, hints should help your search not leave you shrugging your shoulders!

 

“Hints” like, “It’s in the obvious place” or “Yes, it’s really there” or “You don’t really need a hint” can lead to a lot of confusion and even a few DNF’s (did not finds). The hint shouldn’t spoil the exact location of the geocache, but it should be a good clue as to where the hide can be found. If you’re a geocache hider, consider a clue that would help someone who’s finding their first geocache get one step closer to the container.

 

The hint can still be clever and require geocachers to think about their surroundings. If you’re new to geocaching, or even a seasoned pro, sometimes the hint takes a little decoding. Here’s some help:

 

• Tie Your Shoe = Bend down and look at a lower level
• Attractive = Magnetic geocache
• Troll = Under a bridge
• SPOR/UPR = Suspicious Pile of Rocks/Unusual Pile of Rocks
• Handyman Special = Magnetic bolt

 

What have your favorite hints been? Do you have any tips on creating a hint? Share in the comments below!

 

 

[+niraD]

At this point, I don't mind obscure hints, or even useless hints (e.g., "tree" in a forest). The only hints I find annoying are the ones that are genuinely misleading, like "ground level" for a cache that must be accessed via an opening that is 6ft (1.8m) high.

[+barefootjeff]

When I'm standing on one leg on the side of a cliff in a gale with driving rain, I want the hint to actually be something that's going to help me find the cache then and there. Not tell me it's at the bottom of the cliff (I needed to know that before I got to GZ and that sort of information ought to be in the description), be a D5 rhyming riddle that I need to solve on the spot or be something that only makes sense after I've found the cache. I'm afraid I don't have much patience for hints that don't provide any helpful information for someone searching at GZ.

Edited November 13, 2019 by barefootjeff

[+Max and 99]

I do not like hints that are completely dependent on your direction of approach, which is unknown to the CO.

"Left side" can just as easily mean right side for a cache that can be approached from four different directions. 

[+Max and 99]

3 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

something that only makes sense after I've found the cache. 

I'm surprised at how many times I don't understand a hint even after solving a puzzle or finding the cache.

[+barefootjeff]

2 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I'm surprised at how many times I don't understand a hint even after solving a puzzle or finding the cache.

 

Yes, I struck one of those just a few days ago. The hint said look up and you will find the sky, look down and you will see the geocache so I was thinking maybe it was beneath a hole in the rock so the cache looking up would see the sky while someone looking down through the hole would see the cache, but nup, it was just tucked in a crevice behind a bush on the side of the track. I'm still scratching my head, trying to figure out how that hint was meant to help in any way, as the whole area was a flat rock shelf with some low knee-height scrub so it couldn't be anything but down.

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

When I'm standing on one leg on the side of a cliff in a gale with driving rain, I want the hint to actually be something that's going to help me find the cache then and there. Not tell me it's at the bottom of the cliff (I needed to know that before I got to GZ and that sort of information ought to be in the description), be a D5 rhyming riddle that I need to solve on the spot or be something that only makes sense after I've found the cache. I'm afraid I don't have much patience for hints that don't provide any helpful information for someone searching at GZ.

It has been a very long time since I've decrypted a rot13 hint manually. For useless/meaningless hints like this, I push a button or two, read the hint, and realize that I'm in the same situation I was in before. All it cost me was a couple button pushes.

 

As I mentioned earlier, the ones I find annoying are the ones that appear to be useful/meaningful, but turn out to be deliberately misleading. Those cost me the time wasted searching the wrong place. They're essentially the same as deliberately bad coordinates.

[+mustakorppi]

Quote

maybe it’s the classic nano in the woods.

Rather than any hint, a nice starting point would be listing the cache size as nano. Then if it’s in the woods, I could stop reading right there.

Edited November 13, 2019 by mustakorppi
Misattributed quotation

[+niraD]

49 minutes ago, mustakorppi said:

4 hours ago, niraD said:

maybe it’s the classic nano in the woods.

Rather than any hint, a nice starting point would be listing the cache size as nano. Then if it’s in the woods, I could stop reading right there.

To be clear, I was quoting the blog post.

[+mustakorppi]

 

10 minutes ago, niraD said:

To be clear, I was quoting the blog post

Yeah, sorry about that, I used the select to quote feature and couldn’t find any obvious way to edit that part.

 

[+Goldenwattle]

1 hour ago, mustakorppi said:

Rather than any hint, a nice starting point would be listing the cache size as nano. Then if it’s in the woods, I could stop reading right there.

Agreed. Why oh why would someone hide a micro even (let alone a nano) in the woods? Fortunately nanos in the woods are rare here, so we haven't got the "classic nano in the woods." Thank goodness!

[+Goldenwattle]

4 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

only makes sense after I've found the cache.

Example: "Red"

After searching around and not seeing anything red as per the hint, I open up an access hole in the ground and find a..."red" box and it's obvious it's a cache. Useless hint.

[+niraD]

44 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Why oh why would someone hide a micro even (let alone a nano) in the woods?

Sometimes there's a spot in the woods where only a micro will work. One of my Favorites was like that. Yes, a larger container could have been hidden somewhere nearby, but it wouldn't have had the same impact as a cache at that location. And at that location, only a micro would work.

[+niraD]

Quote

What have your favorite hints been? Do you have any tips on creating a hint?

My favorite hints have been the ones that avoided spoiling the hide, but helped narrow down the search. Knowing that the cache is at ground level--or at knee level, or at eye level, or whatever--can really help limit the area that must be searched, which helps with the find without spoiling the hide.

[+mcc_]

6 hours ago, niraD said:

What have your favorite hints been? Do you have any tips on creating a hint? Share in the comments below!

 

Some of my favourite hints are the ones that have sneaky puns in them - for example a cache with a hint of "Are you feeling herassed?" was in an old Heras fence block. That one got a favourite point.

 

IMO, I think the box is called "hints" for a reason - they are supposed to be hints, not direct spoilers (although a spoiler is acceptable with an urban cache to deter muggling). Overall I think the find is more rewarding at the end of the day as well.

[+arisoft]

9 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Agreed. Why oh why would someone hide a micro even (let alone a nano) in the woods?

 

From the cache owner's view there is no reason to use larger containers. Even if the camouflage is regular size the cache inside is most probaply a micro.

Edited November 13, 2019 by arisoft

[+IceColdUK]

2 hours ago, mcc_ said:

Some of my favourite hints are the ones that have sneaky puns in them - for example a cache with a hint of "Are you feeling herassed?" was in an old Heras fence block. That one got a favourite point.

Great if you get the pun, but useless if you don’t.  I’d never heard of a Heras block, and might have assumed a typo in the hint.  Anybody translating from another language would have no hope.

 

I’ve seen hints like ‘Yo, Adriaaan”.  I’m of the right age (and demographic?) to get the reference, but I’m guessing many wouldn’t.

 

I think if you provide a hint it should be useful to the majority.

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by IceColdUK

[+Goldenwattle]

1 hour ago, arisoft said:

 

From the cache owner's view there is no reason to use larger containers. Even if the camouflage is regular size the cache inside is most propably a micro.

I am more used to if the cache is a small or larger, most will be small or larger inside. The log will be in a plastic bag. A few might be more elaborate designs, but not most. I have a couple of those myself of externally small size, but internally micro. However, I list those as 'Other' sized, as they aren't a small, as they don't have the expected internal size to hold TBs and trinkets, and they aren't a micro either, as the object is much bigger.

But in a normal small, regular or large, if the log was inside a micro cache inside the larger cache what does it matter, as basically the cache will still  fit TBs and trinkets. It's not a micro.

[+Goldenwattle]

1 hour ago, IceColdUK said:

Great if you get the pun, but useless if you don’t.  I’d never heard of a Heras block, and might have assumed a typo in the hint.  Anybody translating from another language would have no hope.

 

I’ve seen hints like .  I’m of the right age (and demographic?) to get the reference, but I’m guessing many wouldn’t.

 

I think if you provide a hint it should be useful to the majority.

 

I also have never heard of a Heras block, and don't get ‘Yo, Adriaaan”. I hate those non-hints that presume too much.

[+barefootjeff]

2 hours ago, arisoft said:

6 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Agreed. Why oh why would someone hide a micro even (let alone a nano) in the woods?

 

From the cache owner's view there is no reason to use larger containers. Even if the camouflage is regular size the cache inside is most propably a micro.

 

I can think of plenty of reasons to use a decent-sized container for a cache in the woods. For a start it's far less likely to need maintenance visits or get dropped and lost in the leaf litter. This is typical of what I use for such when it's under a ledge or in a cave protected from the weather:

 

 

Most commonly I see ammo cans, small and regular clip-lock Sistemas and such in the woods here. I shuddered when I saw a nano in the woods described as a "classic cache".

 

[+Goldenwattle]

17 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

I shuddered when I saw a nano in the woods described as a "classic cache"

I can only remember finding one nano cache in bushland in Australia.(Possibly I have found more, but they would be very rare and they were obviously unmemorable.) And the one I do remember, I thought how very, very silly is that. So many places to hide a decent sized cache and they attach a nano to a metal fence.

The log was also full, wet, unreadable, and unwriteable on by many pens. A real rubbish cache. But thankfully NOT a "classic cache" here in bushland.

[+baer2006]

3 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

I’ve seen hints like ‘Yo, Adriaaan”.  I’m of the right age (and demographic?) to get the reference, but I’m guessing many wouldn’t.

I didn't get it, and had to google it. As geocache hints, I don't really like "in jokes" like this. It's just a nuisance, if have a network connection and can google it on the spot, and quite frustrating otherwise.

[+on4bam]

2 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I also have never heard of a Heras block

 

Pretty common here and a hint like that is a giveaway.  Hints shouldn't be to simple anyway, where's the fun in that?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

7 hours ago, niraD said:

My favorite hints have been the ones that avoided spoiling the hide, but helped narrow down the search. Knowing that the cache is at ground level--or at knee level, or at eye level, or whatever--can really help limit the area that must be searched, which helps with the find without spoiling the hide.

 

For example:   There was a cache here hidden at a parking garage.  In the description, it mentions that they were able to get good coordinates from where the cache is hidden.   The hint was:  "Think laterally"

 

 

[+cerberus1]

4 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

Great if you get the pun, but useless if you don’t.  I’d never heard of a Heras block, and might have assumed a typo in the hint.  

Anybody translating from another language would have no hope.

 

I’ve seen hints like ‘Yo, Adriaaan”.  I’m of the right age (and demographic?) to get the reference, but I’m guessing many wouldn’t.

I think if you provide a hint it should be useful to the majority.

 

Most hints we've ever seen were meant for people who'd understand it,  if they'd only give it some thought.

Similar to on4bam, I don't feel a "hint" means I should hold your hand and direct you there.  It's a hint...

I don't think anyone here would find "Yo, Adriaaan" tough to decipher. 

We've yet to see a hint that is meant for an international audience, most not even a thought that someone from another country would stop by.

  - When I'm bored and look at caches in other countries, I use google a lot.  Both your examples come up right away.  

[+IceColdUK]

13 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

I don't think anyone here would find "Yo, Adriaaan" tough to decipher.

 

3 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I also have never heard of a Heras block, and don't get ‘Yo, Adriaaan”.

 

Small sample, I know, but it was just an example.  Incidentally, when this hint came up, I asked my two twenty-something sons, and neither of them had a clue.  Of course, a quick Google solves this one, but I'm still not so sure about mcc's "Are you feeling herassed?" example.  And should we really be expecting people to access the Internet just to make use of a hint?

Edited November 13, 2019 by IceColdUK
typo

[+cerberus1]

I had a cache once called "Black Rock".   It was a huge flat rock I sprayed flat-black and hauled in on an ALICE pack carry frame.

It was the only flat rock at a rock wall,  and  simply sat in front of a large indent deep enough for a 50cal.  Stuck out like a sore thumb...

I didn't want to leave a hint, then changed it to   "you're kidding, right ?"    

 - After numerous emails asking for help, I finally wrote.  "Okay, if not, look at the cache name again..."

Sheesh...

 

Our county-wide P&R open space  has listed every cache they've placed with the hint, " When replacing cache, please hide it as you found it."

 - Not even a hint, yet we've heard no one mention it.  Go figure...

 

[+IceColdUK]

1 hour ago, on4bam said:

Pretty common here and a hint like that is a giveaway.

 

If the hint was "Heras block" then, assuming I could see 'one of those things used to hold up a temporary fence' at GZ, then I think I'd have made the logical leap.  "Are you feeling herassed?", less certain!

[+CAVinoGal]

Being vertically challenged, I find hints that say "chest high" or "eye level" to be ... a bit off!  Of course, it depends on the hider, and what is at their chest height is most likely eye level for me. and eye level?  I might need a TOTT to grab it!  If I know the hider, I can adjust my expectations, and if I don't have a clue who the CO is, then the clue means little!  Then again, caches migrate over time, so who knows if the clue applies NOW?

 

We try to give a hint that, put together with the cache title and the location, will help narrow down your search.  And it's a hint, not a giveaway.  We've seen hints that tell you exactly where to look - "Under rocks, behind the fence post" - where's the fun in that one?

[+thebruce0]

1. Sometimes I find those non-hints can be hints as well. Something like "none needed" implies it really isn't that hard - don't overthink it. Often I'll find it because of the hint.  Still...

 

2. I do prefer hints that aren't giveaways or spoilers as well. I do like the idea of providing multiple hints, each one less and less vague (and to be safe, each somehow obscured differently so there's no unintended spoiler by reading too far ahead). That gives people the choice to reveal each if they're having difficulty, if the CO really wants to have a cacher find a cache and not walk away with a DNF.  But that's up to the CO.

 

3. Arguably, providing too many hints or easy hints could alter the D. Arguably. Some people factor provided hints into the D, and others feel the rating should apply before hints.  I'll typically only provide hints like that if the D is lower. Because at least in my area, I know there will be people who use the hints because they don't want to deal with the high D, thus lowering the D from the get-go. So I suppose that puts me in the camp of the hints affecting the D (at least in my region).

[+arisoft]

18 minutes ago, CAVinoGal said:

"Under rocks, behind the fence post" - where's the fun in that one?

 

The fun is the fact that you used the hint too early and spoiled the hide yourself

It was meant to be read when you can not find the cache.

 

[+cerberus1]

1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

 ... Because at least in my area, I know there will be people who use the hints because they don't want to deal with the high D, thus lowering the D from the get-go.

So I suppose that puts me in the camp of the hints affecting the D (at least in my region).

 

We've found that most here read the hint before they head out.  I feel it's simply human nature. 

I write the hint on a index card or small notebook, but don't really think about what I'm writing since everything pertinent is written when loading manually, most weeks before I head out, and doing a lotta caches with little cell reception.

 

One recent group of caches out, the hints are easy, with reminders to look at hints in the description,  because of the lack of cell service in the area. 

 - You're not getting help until you get home (or at least outta the area). 

I guess they feel the "D" can be knocked down a bit in a hint,  as the "T" gets higher with each cache.

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by cerberus1
forgot...

[+The Jester]

3 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

 

 

Small sample, I know, but it was just an example.  Incidentally, when this hint came up, I asked my two twenty-something sons, and neither of them had a clue.  Of course, a quick Google solves this one, but I'm still not so sure about mcc's "Are you feeling herassed?" example.  And should we really be expecting people to access the Internet just to make use of a hint?

I did a quick Google search and still have no idea what "Yo, Adriaaan" means???

 

We have one hider around here that uses an "elf" theme.  One hint was "three elves high" - which means you need to know what size elf they mean, since elves come in sizes from a inch or so to over 6 feet (Middle Earth) - so anything from 3 inches to 18 feet...

[Moun10Bike]

2 minutes ago, The Jester said:

I did a quick Google search and still have no idea what "Yo, Adriaaan" means???

 

(pssst: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRWDx1eUEJtUBHxLnIIhGUis-9tBeRdWr6csaD2Nso5l2ohoZ-9)

[+The Jester]

1 hour ago, cerberus1 said:

 

We've found that most here read the hint before they head out.  I feel it's simply human nature. 

 

There are a lot of us around here, like me, that don't read hints until we "need" them.

One of the worst was in Eastern Washington, this was back before instant decryption devices, that I had did the hand rot13 to find out it was in Spanish.

[+thebruce0]

1 minute ago, The Jester said:

I did a quick Google search and still have no idea what "Yo, Adriaaan" means???

 

Google results can also be regional. It's a quote, and the name is Adrian.  Regionally relevant results are really the only reason I could imagine Google (for one) not giving an answer immediately...

 

nonetheless. Sometimes hints (as mentioned above) aren't intended for a worldwide audience. Whether it's 'trivia' knowledge well known to a small area, or heck even language used has the same effect, a hint like this could be anywhere along that line between common knowledge/universally understandable, and "may require a bit of extra work to discern"

[+on4bam]

With all this complaining about hints it wouldn't surprise me that GS removes this info one of these days.

 

 

[+The Jester]

I came up with an entertainer Yo Adrian, that works the East Coast, a sound studio in Key West by that name and various shows that used the phrase.  I wouldn't even have that in the field.

[+The Jester]

1 minute ago, on4bam said:

With all this complaining about hints it wouldn't surprise me that GS removes this info one of these days.

 

 

They aren't complaints about GS, they are complaints about CO's - which nobody can control...

[+The Jester]

One of the funniest I remember was a hint about the type of tree it was hidden by - and they got the tree wrong!  Hidden before the leaves came out and they said Alder but it was a Big Leaf Maple.  They were somewhat embarrassed as their occupation was forest related...

[+IceColdUK]

18 minutes ago, The Jester said:

I did a quick Google search and still have no idea what "Yo, Adriaaan" means???

 

8 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

I’ve seen hints like ‘Yo, Adriaaan”.  I’m of the right age (and demographic?) to get the reference, but I’m guessing many wouldn’t.

... such as my two sons.  But you’re focusing too much on this one example.

 

The point I was trying to make is that with a cryptic hint, some people will just get it; others might get it by using Google, assuming they have a smart phone + connectivity + the hint isn’t too cryptic (such as “feeling herassed?”); and others just won’t get it.

 

My feeling is that hints should be useful to everybody.  Why would I only offer a hint to people that have seen Rocky?! ?

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by IceColdUK
Added the “Yo, Adriaaan” spoiler!

[+The Jester]

1 minute ago, IceColdUK said:

 

... such as my two sons.  But you’re focusing too much on this one example.

 

The point I was trying to make is that with a cryptic hint, some people will just get it; others might get it by using Google, assuming they have a smart phone + connectivity + the hint isn’t too cryptic (such as “feeling herassed?”); and others just won’t get it.

 

My feeling is that hints should be useful to everybody.

I agree that they should be useful to anybody.  I was just responding the comments that "a quick Google search" would reveal the meaning.

[+IceColdUK]

4 minutes ago, The Jester said:

I agree that they should be useful to anybody.  I was just responding the comments that "a quick Google search" would reveal the meaning.

Apologies Jester, I completely misread your reply.  I thought you were suggesting I had no idea what the hint meant.

 

So, you illustrate the point nicely: even with Google you couldn’t decipher the hint.  I’m sure the CO in this case had nothing against those cachers who aren’t fans of Sylvester Stallone’s films, but clearly they would be disadvantaged!

[+arisoft]

22 minutes ago, The Jester said:

There are a lot of us around here, like me, that don't read hints until we "need" them.

 

Sometimes I forget to read the hint and post a DNF instead.

[+on4bam]

19 minutes ago, The Jester said:

They aren't complaints about GS, they are complaints about CO's - which nobody can control...

I didn't say the complaints were about GS

 

 

[+thebruce0]

38 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

My feeling is that hints should be useful to everybody.  Why would I only offer a hint to people that have seen Rocky?! ?

 

Well, to what degree? A common phrase the CO might think "everyone would know", but someone comes along and doesn't. Whether it's a proper name, a dual-coded hint, another language, or a common phrase.  It's really up to the CO to decide what's "reasonable".  We can't expect to understand every single hint, any number of reasons...

 

(that's not an excuse to say that "Yo, Adriaaaan" is as reasonable a hint as "red rock", just that there's a chance neither could be understood - context and location also makes a great difference, as "tree" demonstrates )

Edited November 13, 2019 by thebruce0

[+IceColdUK]

1 minute ago, thebruce0 said:

 

Well, to what degree? A common phrase the CO might think "everyone would know", but someone comes along and doesn't. Whether it's a proper name, a dual-coded hint, another language, or a common phrase.  It's really up to the CO to decide what's "reasonable".  We can't expect to understand every single hint, any number of reasons...

Obviously.

[+arisoft]

Anagram hints are fun. You do not try to solve the hint before you have tried to find the cache, but if you don't find it you can try to solve the anagram and get the hint.

[+IceColdUK]

1 minute ago, arisoft said:

Anagram hints are fun. You do not try to solve the hint before you have tried to find the cache, but if you don't find it you can try to solve the anagram and get the hint.

I guess it depends on how tricky the anagram is, but I’d still not be massively in favour.  I’m not advocating ‘give away’ hints, by the way, I just feel that our hints shouldn’t be favouring fencing experts, Rocky fans or Times Crossword solvers! ?

[+barefootjeff]

1 hour ago, arisoft said:

Anagram hints are fun. You do not try to solve the hint before you have tried to find the cache, but if you don't find it you can try to solve the anagram and get the hint.

 

Anagram hints might be fun when you can sit on a park bench on a nice sunny day with notepad and pen in your lap, but perhaps not so much when you're out in the wild with the weather trying to erase you from the landscape.

 

When setting my hints, I try to visualise someone's GPSr leading them to within about five metres of the cache and then asking what in their surroundings they should be looking for to focus their search. At the end of an hour or two of rugged hiking, most people don't want to then spend another hour doing an emu parade (and there's another local colloquialism to Google in the field).