The ultimate "throw down"?

[+GrateBear]

A new cacher with 4 finds did their first hide.  3 very well experienced cachers could not find it, and requested that the coords be checked.  But, lo and behold, our local FTF fiend posted this:  "I placed a cache there and claiming a FTF, so others who come here don't waste their time. the owner needs to check on this cache the power lines could be affecting the readings."  This guy has 21k finds and 1400+ FTFs.  I knew he was a fanatic about FTFs, but not to this extent.  This was back on 10/25, and so far, no one else has apparently even looked for it.

[+lee737]

A true good samaritan, he only did it for all the others! 

[+Touchstone]

Sounds like your local "fiend" hasn't read the following Help Center article:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=38&pgid=427

 

The flipside of this is the recent local cache owner that deleted several Find logs due to a throwdown that turned their 4 Star Difficulty cache into a 1 Star Difficulty,  punishing the throwdown culprit as well as the hapless Finders afterwards.

 

[+dprovan]

19 hours ago, lee737 said:

A true good samaritan, he only did it for all the others! 

Actually, I think that's true: he was doing it because he thought it would be a good deed. With 21k finds and 1400+ FTFs, it's really not worth the effort to do it for the +1. Think about it: the statistics as quoted in the OP aren't accurate enough to reflect a +1. They probably aren't even accurate enough to be different depending on whether they did or didn't reflect all of the throwdowns this guy's ever done. So I really doubt the problem here is a misguided desire for numbers. It's more likely a misguided idea that a failed cache is precious and should be kept alive.

[+baer2006]

1 hour ago, dprovan said:

Actually, I think that's true: he was doing it because he thought it would be a good deed. With 21k finds and 1400+ FTFs, it's really not worth the effort to do it for the +1.

That wasn't my impression from the opening posting. It quoted the throwdowner (or down-thrower??) as logging "I placed a cache there and claiming a FTF, [...]". Explicitly "claiming FTF" on a throwdown looks to me as if the FTF was the main motivation. If intended as a  "good deed", they should have logged like "Placed a cache here. FTF is up for grabs".

Anyway, it's a funny story. Lazy cache owners in the area might think about not providing a container of their own in the first place - they know, that there is a cacher who will do it for them .

[+dprovan]

1 hour ago, baer2006 said:

That wasn't my impression from the opening posting. It quoted the throwdowner (or down-thrower??) as logging "I placed a cache there and claiming a FTF, [...]". Explicitly "claiming FTF" on a throwdown looks to me as if the FTF was the main motivation. If intended as a  "good deed", they should have logged like "Placed a cache here. FTF is up for grabs".

Nope, I still doubt it. He's claiming the FTF because he sees himself as the FTF, just like 1400+ times before. That doesn't mean that one FTF is important to him, it's just a fact. Even if he said, "HAHAHA, another precious FTF to add to my prized collection," I'd still think that was just how he logs FTFs, not that FTFs are so important he'd go to the trouble of carrying spare containers all the time just to be sure he gets one more. I just think the image of the halo over his head is a much bigger motivation than the +1 that no one will notice. So if you talk to him, sure, go ahead and rib him about being a numbers fiend, but if you want to stop him from dropping throwdowns, talk him him about why throwdowns are not a good idea. He won't listen if you say it's just because it makes him look like a numbers fiend.

[+Mudfrog]

2 hours ago, dprovan said:

Nope, I still doubt it. He's claiming the FTF because he sees himself as the FTF, just like 1400+ times before. That doesn't mean that one FTF is important to him, it's just a fact. Even if he said, "HAHAHA, another precious FTF to add to my prized collection," I'd still think that was just how he logs FTFs, not that FTFs are so important he'd go to the trouble of carrying spare containers all the time just to be sure he gets one more. I just think the image of the halo over his head is a much bigger motivation than the +1 that no one will notice. So if you talk to him, sure, go ahead and rib him about being a numbers fiend, but if you want to stop him from dropping throwdowns, talk him him about why throwdowns are not a good idea. He won't listen if you say it's just because it makes him look like a numbers fiend.

 

Can we say "NAIVE"? 

 

Well sure, there's a chance you are correct. However, I'd betcha an ammocan it's more like the throwdowner did it because his or her goal is big numbers. In this case, FTFs. 

 

 

[+NYPaddleCacher]

12 hours ago, Mudfrog said:

 

Can we say "NAIVE"? 

 

Well sure, there's a chance you are correct. However, I'd betcha an ammocan it's more like the throwdowner did it because his or her goal is big numbers. In this case, FTFs. 

 

 

I wouldn't take that bet either.

 

+1's add up.  It's easier to get higher numbers if you never post a DNF, and a throwdown is a way to do that.   Several years ago there was an informal poll asked users here how often the had a DNF.  Though the sample size was small, the results suggest that about 10% of the time, a search will result in a DNF.   For a numbers hound, a 10% reduction in their find count is enough of an incentive to throw down a container and log it as found.  For someone that is also a FTF hound that's an additional incentive.   The fact that the OP knows how many FTFs this throwdowner has (and that it's a pretty high number) suggests that FTFs  are a significant incentive.  

[+lee737]

3 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

I wouldn't take that bet either.

 

+1's add up.  It's easier to get higher numbers if you never post a DNF, and a throwdown is a way to do that.   Several years ago there was an informal poll asked users here how often the had a DNF.  Though the sample size was small, the results suggest that about 10% of the time, a search will result in a DNF.   For a numbers hound, a 10% reduction in their find count is enough of an incentive to throw down a container and log it as found.  For someone that is also a FTF hound that's an additional incentive.   The fact that the OP knows how many FTFs this throwdowner has (and that it's a pretty high number) suggests that FTFs  are a significant incentive.  

 

If you throwdown your way out of a 10% DNF count, you'll probably even increase your find count by more than 10%, as the time you haven't spent searching can be diverted to finding even more caches..... that's what irks me about DNFs, not the frowny - the loss of time.....

[+barefootjeff]

45 minutes ago, lee737 said:

If you throwdown your way out of a 10% DNF count, you'll probably even increase your find count by more than 10%, as the time you haven't spent searching can be diverted to finding even more caches..... that's what irks me about DNFs, not the frowny - the loss of time.....

 

It's not just the time searching that's lost, it's the time it takes to go back for another try. For a cache that's an hour or more away that you visit four or five times before finally spotting it (yes, I've done that) it adds up. Glad I'm retired now .

[+ecanderson]

19 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

It's not just the time searching that's lost, it's the time it takes to go back for another try. For a cache that's an hour or more away that you visit four or five times before finally spotting it (yes, I've done that) it adds up. Glad I'm retired now .

We would call that a 'nemesis cache', and we've had a few as well!