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Max and 99

When is it OK to use photos not taken by you?

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Many categories state that photos must be taken by you. Will they accept uncategorized waymarks?  Do they have to?

 

"Rules" are not consistently enforced; we all know that. Despite instructions to the contrary, a WMO can make up their own visit requirement. The officers in each category can and sometimes  do interpret posting and visiting requirements differently, making it frustrating to others. S ome just make up their own rules. 

 

I've helped several other waymarkers who did not have a unique required photo for something they wanted to post. It was something I was happy to help with. Would the officer have accepted it knowing that someone else contributed a photo?

 

Is uncategorized waymarks the only option? I personally consider that feature utterly broken. I'm not a fan. 

 

But this is an invite to discuss options for using someone else's photos in your waymarks. I know that there is little chance we will all agree on if and when it's acceptable, but let's discuss it

 

One of my categories actually requires that someone else take the photos. I have to decline the waymark if you took the photos yourself! Fortunately that's a peer reviewed exception. I think.

 

Although I think the MOH category was a worthy exception, I also think that for the most part you should take your own photos. But for me it's not a hard rule. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

 this is an invite to discuss options for using someone else's photos in your waymarks. I know that there is little chance we will all agree on if and when it's acceptable, but let's discuss it

 

For me, having a picture taken is not an issue, for the most part. I think the problem comes from taking a picture off the internet, never having visited the site personally.

An example -- I was in the military, and moved around, even to a few other countries. This was long before Waymarking. If I could, for instance, find a way for someone to go to the post office by the house I rented in Landstuhl, Germany and take the picture, I would love to post a European Post Office. I went there monthly to pay my bills, so I did personally visit there. I just don't have a picture of it. (In 1990, I would have NEVER had a thought that I would one day want a picture of it!)

But, never having been in Australia, finding that there is a non-waymarked post office in Perth and getting a picture of it off an internet site, and posting it, is not kosher as I understand the idea of Waymarking.

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2 hours ago, vulture1957 said:

For me, having a picture taken is not an issue, for the most part. I think the problem comes from taking a picture off the internet, never having visited the site personally.

An example -- I was in the military, and moved around, even to a few other countries. This was long before Waymarking. If I could, for instance, find a way for someone to go to the post office by the house I rented in Landstuhl, Germany and take the picture, I would love to post a European Post Office. I went there monthly to pay my bills, so I did personally visit there. I just don't have a picture of it. (In 1990, I would have NEVER had a thought that I would one day want a picture of it!)

But, never having been in Australia, finding that there is a non-waymarked post office in Perth and getting a picture of it off an internet site, and posting it, is not kosher as I understand the idea of Waymarking.

Very good points! Thank you.

 

I've been thinking about this all day, and still have mixed feelings.

 

I appreciate the response.

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True confession: my wife and my mother have taken photographs on their own travels that I have used to create waymarks myself.  Even after uncategorized waymarks became non-functional, I have traded my photographs of rare Waymarking categories to others seeking same.  However, I would never even consider using a publicly available photograph to create a waymark.  On the other hand, I have used a publicly available photograph to improve my waymark after it passed review.  As a reviewer, I get so angry when I see an internet photograph being used as the default photo in a waymark submission.  But then I have no problem with the compromise worked out for the MoH category. 

 

Maybe I'm a bad example. 

 

Maybe there are too many exceptions to our rules.

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Max and 99 — I’m totally with you on the frustration of inconsistent application of requirements...if nothing else, that “no drive-by photos" ought to be included in the expectations/unwritten rules for all submissions. Personal capabilities, aesthetics, and artistic style aside, clear and obvious intention and effort should be part of capturing quality photos.

 

Vulture1957 — I’m totally with you on not grabbing images from the Internet — taking without permission and credit is unethical and illegal.

 

elyob — It would seem to me that using other’s photos for WM’s from a time you were together at the location would be totally acceptable, as long as credit is given

 

In my brief experience, I’ve had just one rejection stand out for which I’ve considered asking somebody I know to return to the location to snap one picture...a “You Are Here” map several states away from home...My widest image shows the entire sign and part of a unique-looking building in the background...but, apparently not enough of the surroundings. My wide, medium, and close-up shots make the subject perfectly clear if you were to visit the place. Worth it for me to explain Waymarking and ask somebody to go out of their way to take a single picture? In this case...Meh.

 

So, some considerations that could constitute acceptable use of photos by others (giving credit where credit is due in each case):

 

a) using another person’s photo that was taken at the same time as yours because you were at the location together

b) using another intentionally captured image which you requested specifically for a WM after your visit -- that is the same as working as a team

c) the super majority of a gallery’s photos should be from the WM owner — if for the only other reason aside from image ownership: this activity is about us personally visiting places to say “I have been here along my travels. This is a record showing that I marked my way.” -- so, an extra/follow-up photo would be OK to supplement a gallery.

d) Personal reputation has value -- This WM community is small enough to be at least aware of, if not actually familiar with, each other's work. Has the poster consistently contributed in the past? If not to the specific category, then are their WMs generally good? Trust one another's best intentions.

---j

Edited by 401Photos
clarity
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I agree to all of the above postings, or at least I don't disagree. :-) But like I said in this posting, there are situations, where exceptions from general rules make sense. And that discussion was very good to see that different people have a different view on the same matter. Some looked at it only from the "Waymarking side", saying things about the Waymarking rules, the "way the hobby is meant to be", the accuracy of coordinates etc. and others looked at it from "outside the Waymarking community". A person (who has no idea what Waymarking is) who is looking for MOH graves might find a waymark via Google and definitely wouldn't care at all, whether the WM owner or somebody else took the photo. Tourists and even local inhabitants will benefit from such waymarks, because you won't find that information anywhere else but on Waymarking.com. So, the more strict we obey the rules the more information will be lost (or not spread) or we can say "this waymark is so important/interesting/..., let's be a little generous with the rules in this case".

 

One more thing I want to add: I really would like to know, if there are any written rules on that topic. If one waymarker or the other says "that's not the way Waymarking is meant to be", I consider that to be a personal opinion, but working in a big company group, I know that you need written rules that everybody has to obey. And as long as passing photos from one waymarker to the other isn't officially prohibited, I don't see a problem doing it. I passed some photos to other waymarkers so that they are able to create a waymark in a category, that they wouldn't find in their part of the world and don't see a problem. I personally made my own rule that says "I don't post a waymark that I haven't seen in person", but that's my own rule that doesn't apply to others.

Edited by PISA-caching

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37 minutes ago, PISA-caching said:

I agree to all of the above postings, or at least I don't disagree. :-) But like I said in this posting, there are situations, where exceptions from general rules make sense. And that discussion was very good to see that different people have a different view on the same matter. Some looked at it only from the "Waymarking side", saying things about the Waymarking rules, the "way the hobby is meant to be", the accuracy of coordinates etc. and others looked at it from "outside the Waymarking community". A person (who has no idea what Waymarking is) who is looking for MOH graves might find a waymark via Google and definitely wouldn't care at all, whether the WM owner or somebody else took the photo. Tourists and even local inhabitants will benefit from such waymarks, because you won't find that information anywhere else but on Waymarking.com. So, the more strict we obey the rules the more information will be lost (or not spread) or we can say "this waymark is so important/interesting/..., let's be a little generous with the rules in this case".

 

One more thing I want to add: I really would like to know, if there are any written rules on that topic. If one waymarker or the other says "that's not the way Waymarking is meant to be", I consider that to be a personal opinion, but working in a big company group, I know that you need written rules that everybody has to obey. And as long as passing photos from one waymarker to the other isn't officially prohibited, I don't see a problem doing it. I passed some photos to other waymarkers so that they are able to create a waymark in a category, that they wouldn't find in their part of the world and don't see a problem. I personally made my own rule that says "I don't post a waymark that I haven't seen in person", but that's my own rule that doesn't apply to others.

My only exceptions to this are uncategorized waymarks, and the categories where someone creates the waymark based on your converted name. I wouldn't post a visit if I hadn't been there, but if someone went to the trouble to gather the info, I'd post a waymark in the category for my name. In hindsight, I wish I hadn't done any uncategorized waymarks, but what's done is done so I'll keep them. It's only a couple, I think. 

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