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I can't pass a red telephone box without nipping in and having a scan around. Even if I don't have my GPS or my phone app isn't loaded with caches. You know what I mean? Some locations are just SUPPOSED to have caches!

 

I've created a cache. Well, I'm not new to caching: I've created many. This particular cache is near a holiday destination we visit frequently, so the local reviewer allowed it. It's in one of those locations which was bizarrely lacking in a cache.

 

We were pretty busy that holiday I didn't publish the cache until a few weeks later when I got back home. Within a few hours of it being published, it was found - as you might expect with the local FTF race being what it is! But the finder was less than happy. Why? It had already been found. It had been found and someone had made a logbook entry several days before it was published.

 

I know FTF isn't a formal part for the game. I have an attitude where "game" is the pertinent word. It's a passtime. A fun passtime. A fun family passtime. No winners, no losers and nobody dies.

 

For discussion, what does anyone else think? Has it been discussed before? I could take some "blame" for the confusion in that I should have registered the cache sooner. However, what happens, for example, if you publish a cache but the reviewer rejects it, and in the meantime, someone finds it?

 

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13 minutes ago, BaseOverApex said:

Has it been discussed before?

 

Many times. :)

 

I place a cache and let it fester for as long as 6 months before submitting it.  Hey, it's gonna be permanent, might as well have it out there.  I usually set it up so I know if it was opened.  If a cacher or a muggle finds it in that time, or if it's entirely untouched, that's useful information to me.

 

If anyone finds it before activation, I might try at least a slightly different spot.  But if I publish it, I'd thank the signer(s) who "Beta-tested" the cache, so the "first" finder knows what to expect.  If you had a timer, and a sheet of paper, and you wrote each cache event by time, you'd see who was "first".  But as a CO, in this case I'd let everyone else figure out "FTF". 

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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6 minutes ago, BaseOverApex said:

But the finder was less than happy. Why? It had already been found.

Yep. That's part of the FTF game. Someone else might find it before you do, and then you aren't FTF. :cry:

 

Some people use the acronym FTFAP for First To Find After Publication. That might console your STF a bit. Then again, maybe not.

 

8 minutes ago, BaseOverApex said:

Has it been discussed before?

What's to discuss? You hid a cache. People found the cache. One of them was first. One of them was second. Someone else will be third. And so on.

 

A cache series around here was originally created for a private birthday celebration. The honoree enjoyed a day of adventure finding all the caches in the series. About a year later, the CO listed the series on the geocaching.com site, and let everyone know that the coveted STF was still up for grabs. It was no big deal.

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1 hour ago, BaseOverApex said:

We were pretty busy that holiday I didn't publish the cache until a few weeks later when I got back home. Within a few hours of it being published, it was found - as you might expect with the local FTF race being what it is! But the finder was less than happy. Why? It had already been found. It had been found and someone had made a logbook entry several days before it was published.

 

IMO the FTFAP would have a legitimate complaint only if s/he thought you had provided the coordinates to someone else before the cache was published.  That not being the case, s/he should just accept that "Stuff happens."

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So far, I'm hearing a distinct agreement with my "it's a game" philosophy. My best guess, though, is that the disgruntled ones maybe don't join in too much on the forums?

I'm also thinking of instigating "DFTF" (Dedicated First To Find) for folk who find BEFORE publication!

In all this, the person I feel who lost out is the original (pre-publication) finder. I've no ideas who they are and they've not logged their find on geocaching.com!

 

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16 minutes ago, BaseOverApex said:

In all this, the person I feel who lost out is the original (pre-publication) finder. I've no ideas who they are and they've not logged their find on geocaching.com!

 

I place nice, suitable for framing, "FTF Certificates" in my caches just before submitting them, so it's all nice-n-legal.  For a bison tube, the certificate is a little larger than a postage stamp. :anicute:

 

But a lot of people find my caches, and don't log online.  Such as "jAMeS", who signed it large in pencil with no other information.

 

I have an ammo box cache with a log book, and with an inkjet printed "Geocaching Sticker" on the outside, and the names of three boys on the log, but without any specific information for the names or the cache.  The bird sanctuary was building its trails, and this box was in the way of the new trail.  So I was asked by the land owners if I wanted the box.  It was never published, and I still don't know whose container it is.  But there was an FTF.  :P

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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17 minutes ago, BaseOverApex said:

So far, I'm hearing a distinct agreement with my "it's a game" philosophy. My best guess, though, is that the disgruntled ones maybe don't join in too much on the forums?

I'm also thinking of instigating "DFTF" (Dedicated First To Find) for folk who find BEFORE publication!

In all this, the person I feel who lost out is the original (pre-publication) finder. I've no ideas who they are and they've not logged their find on geocaching.com!

 

We see FTF "rules" made every once-in-a-while. Most to benefit the person making that rule.  :D

 

We still have long-time geocachers here who find caches, but never log on the site. 

These have been some of our favorite cachers ... trading swag sometimes, and leaving awesome logs, drawings and poems in our log books.

Big difference from just the name n date we see so much of today...

 - But we're surprised at all the non-cachers who've signed the log and even traded (usually with money).

One area we got thanks from a hunter, who borrowed our pencil to sign his deer tag. 

Most simply curious, seeing them from in their stands.  Guess no one looks up. :)

Another was a happy hiker, grateful we had those little travel TP packs inside. 

 - We were thankful too, or the next cacher might say we're missing a log book.   :laughing:

 

Edited by cerberus1
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12 minutes ago, kunarion said:

The bird sanctuary was building its trails, and this box was in the way of the new trail.  So I was asked by the land owners if I wanted the box.  It was never published, and I still don't know whose container it is.  But there was an FTF.  :P

 

 

 

Wow! Amazing story!

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I've found one prior and had one of mine found prior. Both times a number of caches were placed and didn't all come out at the same time. I copped curry for the one I put out, but from someone who paddled past it and didn't see it themselves (a bright blue metal drink flask hanging in a tree).

 

It happens, and more regularly than most would think. As long as no-one has been given the location then they are FTF. Which is merely unofficial bragging rights anyway.

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Once a ?-Cache was published close to my home. After solving the moderate Puzzle I knew it´s at a location I was also thinking of hiding a cache, the listing was already prepared (and I was startled, thought the cords are blocked when already a listing exists).

FTF was claimed by a well known FTF-hound while I was still asleep. I took STF a few hours later, but was kinda confused that the log in the film canister I found was still blank. I contacted the FTF-girl and she told me that the cache she found was not a film canister. I went back to search again, found the bison tube with the FTF Log an took the alien film canister to avoid further confusions.

It seems someone else was about to set up a cache there too, but took to long to create te listing or what ever.

Thing´s happen!

 

Edit: The above is not entirely correct. I just went though the old logs and I did not return to take the wrong cache. Instead it caused further confusion :D

Edited by DerDiedler
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I found a cache about 6 months before it got published. It was about 155 meters from a neighboring stash with hidden coordinates, so publication may have been held back by saturation rule. Fortunately, I was not even the first to sign the log, so didn't have to ponder whether I'm entitled to ftf or not. In my book, it wasn't a cache until it was published so the first one after publication is welcome to log ftf. I just logged a find later as a curiosity.

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On 11/3/2019 at 9:49 AM, cerberus1 said:

We see FTF "rules" made every once-in-a-while. Most to benefit the person making that rule. 

That's one of the cool features of the FTF game: everyone gets to make their own rules and declare themselves FTF if they want. No one can say they aren't and claiming FTF for yourself doesn't prevent anyone else from claiming it for themselves, too. The only people that get upset about it are the people that have the mistaken idea that their rules trump anyone else's rules.

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12 hours ago, papu66 said:

<snip>  it wasn't a cache until it was published so the first one after publication is welcome to log ftf. <snip>

 

My assumption is that it was a cache as soon as someone put a container/logbook there. As long as you don't have insider knowledge of the hide, I say it's a fair (lucky) find.

 

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59 minutes ago, lee737 said:

 

My assumption is that it was a cache as soon as someone put a container/logbook there. As long as you don't have insider knowledge of the hide, I say it's a fair (lucky) find.

 

 

3 hours ago, BaseOverApex said:

 

I've often said that it doesn't matter what the rules to a game are, so long as we all play the same rules. That' probably why I never consider Geocaching to be a "game"! Just a passtime!

Fair enough, but in this case I'm not sure if the log book even had the GC-code. What if prior to publication the CO decides to put in a fresh new logbook? Or changes the location by a few meters? Did I find the cache then or just a plastic box used to make the cache later?

I know sometimes caches are  found in CO's hands at meets etc. That's a bit sleazy but in the end score these are just few isolated finds among thousands so no big deal. 

As far as the FTF game is concerned, I would draw the line at publication since the insider knowledge is hard to prove. Better to have a straightforward rule.

 

I myself have a few boxes hidden with just a logbook inside. No GC-codes obviously because the cache descriptions haven't been written yet. If by miracle someone finds any of those, I'll of course have to accept the log. However, If my mother should log FTFBP, I will delete. 

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1 hour ago, lee737 said:

 

My assumption is that it was a cache as soon as someone put a container/logbook there. As long as you don't have insider knowledge of the hide, I say it's a fair (lucky) find.

 

What do you define as "insider knowledge"?  On one hike my wife and I were FTF on a cache that was placed on the way out by another member of the group.  We were very slow and out of shape, so were an hour or so behind the rest.  A verbal mention of the general area (near a big rock that stands out along the trail) they were planning on hiding was enough that we - with a fair amount of searching not knowing even the size - were able to find and sign the cache, well before the cache was submitted.

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4 minutes ago, The Jester said:

What do you define as "insider knowledge"?  On one hike my wife and I were FTF on a cache that was placed on the way out by another member of the group.  We were very slow and out of shape, so were an hour or so behind the rest.  A verbal mention of the general area (near a big rock that stands out along the trail) they were planning on hiding was enough that we - with a fair amount of searching not knowing even the size - were able to find and sign the cache, well before the cache was submitted.

That.

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16 hours ago, papu66 said:

In my book, it wasn't a cache until it was published

2 hours ago, papu66 said:

Fair enough, but in this case I'm not sure if the log book even had the GC-code.

 

Groundspeak doesn't own geocaching. Something can be a geocache even if it doesn't have one of Groundspeak's GC codes, even if it hasn't been published on Groundspeak's geocaching.com site.

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As a finder and signer of an unpublished cache. I think the FTF spirit is after the publishing, ask them to claim it. No need to be angry or upset. I too used to run my fingers under any and all phone booths as one of our local hiders used them for multi caches. Unfortunately he never published that one. 

 

I'd also sign and log archived caches. A find is a find.

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11 hours ago, The Jester said:

What do you define as "insider knowledge"?  On one hike my wife and I were FTF on a cache that was placed on the way out by another member of the group.  We were very slow and out of shape, so were an hour or so behind the rest.  A verbal mention of the general area (near a big rock that stands out along the trail) they were planning on hiding was enough that we - with a fair amount of searching not knowing even the size - were able to find and sign the cache, well before the cache was submitted.

You just gave an excellent example for "insider knowledge" :) .

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