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Explaining attributes?


patternleap

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Where can I find more information about attributes? All I found is a list of icons. While many are self-explanatory (available in winter, dogs allowed, tick hazard, and similar), some are not. What do these mean?

 

  • Stealth required
  • Park and grab
  • Tourist friendly
  • Field puzzle
  • Night cache
  • Teamwork cache
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40 minutes ago, patternleap said:

Where can I find more information about attributes? All I found is a list of icons. While many are self-explanatory (available in winter, dogs allowed, tick hazard, and similar), some are not. What do these mean?

I don't know of any definitions for any of the attributes, beyond the list of attribute icons and names.

 

But here is my understanding of the ones you listed:

 

Stealth required - The CO thinks seekers need to be stealthy to avoid compromising the cache.

 

Park and grab - The CO thinks seekers can drive up, park, find the cache quickly, and be on their way again.

 

Tourist friendly - The CO thinks the cache is a good one for tourists to seek.

 

Field puzzle - There is some sort of puzzle that needs to be solved in the field, and cannot be solved before you leave home. (Gadget caches often use this attribute, but so to multi-stage caches that involve solving a puzzle at one stage to get information needed for another stage.)

 

Night cache - The CO intended the cache to be found at night. (The cache may be more difficult or even impossible to find during the day.)

 

Teamwork cache - The CO intended the cache to be found by multiple people working together.

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1 hour ago, niraD said:

Teamwork cache - The CO intended the cache to be found by multiple people working together.

 

Unofficially you are right because Groundspeak doesn't police the attribute (except wheelchair accessible and it's not since the beginning of the game) but officially it's only for cache that the final coordinates are in a cache in another country/state https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=127&pgid=814

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2 hours ago, patternleap said:

Where can I find more information about attributes? All I found is a list of icons. While many are self-explanatory (available in winter, dogs allowed, tick hazard, and similar), some are not. What do these mean?

 

  • Stealth required
  • Park and grab
  • Tourist friendly
  • Field puzzle
  • Night cache
  • Teamwork cache

 

If you see an attribute on a cache page, and are unsure of what it means, it would be good to ask the cache owner (send a message).  Some are required for cache publication, but otherwise attributes are not set in stone, and are used in various ways.  For example, if it's a cache downtown and there's a "Watch for livestock" attribute, it means that the cache owner is silly :P.  Or it may be a clue. 

 

I've seen "Night Cache" used when a cache is a better experience at night, such as when it's creepier to fit the theme.  But available in the daytime, too.

 

There are whole discussions around here about how or when "Tourist Friendly" should be used. B)

 

Edited by kunarion
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59 minutes ago, niraD said:

I guess I gave up searching the Help Center too soon.

 

Anyway, for completeness, here's one more Help Center article that could be useful: Night and UV caches

Hum well I learnt something today Groundspeak added the same sillyness than the letterbox and want you to add a GPS use part that destroy the purpose of the cache.

 

I would need to check but I am pretty sure that none of the night cache I have found include waypoint for the final or a waypoint on the trail of reflector because it would be dumb to do so for a night cache. People would just bushwalk to it.

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13 minutes ago, Lynx Humble said:

I would need to check but I am pretty sure that none of the night cache I have found include waypoint for the final or a waypoint on the trail of reflector because it would be dumb to do so for a night cache. People would just bushwalk to it.

 

The cache location must be included in some way so that the reviewer can check cache separation.  But it would tend to be a hidden waypoint. People won't just bushwalk to coordinates that are unknown.

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26 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

The cache location must be included in some way so that the reviewer can check cache separation.  But it would tend to be a hidden waypoint. People won't just bushwalk to coordinates that are unknown.

From what I understand from the help article there must be 2 visible waypoints. One at the starting point (reflector at the parking lot) and a second one somewhere else.

 

From the help center article :

 

Like all geocaches, night caches must involve GPS use for at least part of the search. This means that following reflectors from the parking lot to the container is not enough.

To involve GPS use in your night cache, include a stage that provides the coordinates

  • Where the reflector trail continues
  • Needed to continue the reflector trail
  • Of the cache container

From the GPS use link :

  • Adequate GPS usage

    The cache page must provide coordinates of a specific object or location that is needed to find the cache. In most cases, this specific object is the cache container. However, it could also be another object is needed to find the final container or the next stage.

    Examples of specific objects or locations:

  • A container with further instructions or coordinates to the next stage.
  • A sign or plaque with information.
  • A landmark used as a reference point to determine the next stage.
  • A tool used to find or access the cache container.
  • A street number or number from a sign.
  • A feature of a specific object at the location.
  • Something to count at the location.
  • Inadequate GPS usage

    Coordinates for locations or objects that are not necessary to find the cache do not count as adequate GPS usage.

    Examples of objects that don't count as GPS usage:

  • Parking lots.
  • Arbitrary locations that are in the neighborhood.
  • Trailheads.
  • Doors and entranceways.
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2 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

 For example, if it's a cache downtown and there's a "Watch for livestock" attribute, it means that the cache owner is silly :P.  Or it may be a clue. 

 

 

There are whole discussions around here about how or when "Tourist Friendly" should be used. B)

 

I'll confess to being a "silly" CO where once or twice I have added a 'No Snowmobiles' attribute - considering where I live has never seen snow.

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A couple more that confuse me a bit are:

  • Significant Hike - how does this differ from the hike distance attributes (short, medium or long hike), the Difficult Climbing attribute and the terrain rating? In other words, what makes a hike significant?
  • Available During Winter - I live in a subtropical region where there's never any ice or snow and winter is often the best time for caching, yet a fair few caches around here have this attribute set. How do they differ from those that don't? And for those in snowy places, how does that differ from the Seasonal Access attribute?
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2 hours ago, Lynx Humble said:

Hum well I learnt something today Groundspeak added the same sillyness than the letterbox and want you to add a GPS use part that destroy the purpose of the cache.

All the reflector-based night caches that I've done have used accurate GPS coordinates to get to the start of the reflector trail. No, the reflector trail did not start at the parking lot.

 

And the letterbox hybrid caches that I've done have all used accurate GPS coordinates to get to the start of the clue-style route to the cache. And no, the clue-style route did not start at the parking lot.

 

And as kunarion indicated, just because you have to list the GPS coordinates of the final location doesn't mean that those final coordinates have to be public. This is no different from puzzle caches or multi-caches or any other caches where the seeker has to do something to figure out where the final location is.

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6 hours ago, Lynx Humble said:

Hum well I learnt something today Groundspeak added the same sillyness than the letterbox and want you to add a GPS use part that destroy the purpose of the cache.

 

Only the CO can destroy the porpose of the cache by using guidelines some silly way like placing the cache to the posted coordinates. Traditional cache with reflectors would be this kind of sillyness unless there is a reason to folllow reflectors instead of bushwalk.

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8 hours ago, kunarion said:

I've seen "Night Cache" used when a cache is a better experience at night, such as when it's creepier to fit the theme.  But available in the daytime, too.

 

I don’t doubt it - use of attributes is just so random! - but I see this as the difference between the ‘Night cache’ and the ‘Recommended at night’ attributes.

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10 hours ago, kunarion said:

a cache downtown and there's a "Watch for livestock" attribute, it means that the cache owner is silly :P.  Or it may be a clue.

 

Or there’s a challenge cache nearby that requires rare attributes like the livestock attribute. Some COs will oblige. 

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On the website, under the attributes pane (if there are any attributes) you'll see this link:

 

what are attributes

 

Because of the way the attributes are grouped there, it's the best explanation of attributes anywhere. Way back when they were added to pocket queries,  the module used was just a jumble of icons.  And every other place in the site ever since has used that same meaning-deficient jumble. For a long time, the "required" was dropped on the hover text for a number of them; for sure, boat and scuba. Possibly others that i wouldn't notice in Florida. So they got used as if there were available facilities - boat ramp available, but cache was a walk-in-the-park.

 

Permissions (Allowed/Not Allowed)

Conditions (Yes/No)

Equipment (Required/Not Required)

Hazards (Present/Not Present)

Facilities (Yes/No)

 

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9 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Attributes don't show up on my Garmin, so in the field they are irrelevant to me, because I can't see them. Therefore they have never been that important to me, although I do mark a few attributes on my caches, but wondering if anyone actually looks at them, because not appearing on my Garmin, I never do.

 

+1

 

When researching a cache, I read the cache description, look at the map, and read previous logs.  I hardly even notice the attributes.

 

But when placing a cache, I've always selected as many as ten appropriate icons.  Used to be that ten was the limit, and I'd sometimes have to be choosy.  Anyway, my thought was that if I ever wanted to filter by some attribute, I'd want the caches' grids filled with attributes.  So that's why I set mine up like that.

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11 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Available During Winter - I live in a subtropical region where there's never any ice or snow and winter is often the best time for caching, yet a fair few caches around here have this attribute set. How do they differ from those that don't? And for those in snowy places, how does that differ from the Seasonal Access attribute?

 

I've always understood this to mean that the CO hid this above the average level of snowfall, meaning that it's usually a hanging cache and can be found during the winter because of this.  As far as seasonal acess, I wouldn't assume that it means the cache is hanging above average snowfall levels, but only available (or suggested as the best time to go find it?) during certain times of the year.  However, I have no idea if that's the case or not.

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4 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

wondering if anyone actually looks at them, because not appearing on my Garmin, I never do.

 

I use them when creating a PQ.

When I'm in the field I generally don't. On the app they are hidden, I have to think to check them.

 

I filter for low T caches (I have some minor mobility issues and don't want to push it). I couldn't find a T2 cache, logged a DNF via the app. Had the irritated CO tell me that the cache was up a tree and I would have known that if I had checked the attributes. <_<

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6 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Attributes don't show up on my Garmin, so in the field they are irrelevant to me, because I can't see them. Therefore they have never been that important to me, although I do mark a few attributes on my caches, but wondering if anyone actually looks at them, because not appearing on my Garmin, I never do.

 

On higher terrain caches, I've learnt from experience to check the attributes before I head out, especially the hazard ones like thorns and ticks. To quote from one of my early logs:

 

Quote

There are razor-wire thorn vines in there. I suppose if I'd looked closely at the attributes I would've known that, but I didn't and stupidly became ensnared in them. What's worse, I was in my summer uniform of just board shorts and a hat, and the hat didn't help much!

 

Lesson learned. I would also hope that those taking small kids out caching with them take note of the "not recommended for kids" attribute, although I once received a complaint from someone that one of my 2.5T caches with that attribute was really hard and dangerous for their three-year-old.

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8 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Attributes don't show up on my Garmin, so in the field they are irrelevant to me, because I can't see them. Therefore they have never been that important to me, although I do mark a few attributes on my caches, but wondering if anyone actually looks at them, because not appearing on my Garmin, I never do.

They show up in my Garmin Etrex20x and 10.. What Garmin are you using? On mine the attributes show as text, not icons, at the bottom of the description.

Edited by colleda
spelling typo
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3 hours ago, colleda said:

They show up in my Garmin Etrex20x and 10.. What Garmin are you using? On mine the attributes show as text, not icons, at the bottom of the description.

Garmin Etrex30. Reading your comment I will need to go take a look at the Garmin when I get home to check this, but I don't remember seeing the attributes.

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30 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Garmin Etrex30. Reading your comment I will need to go take a look at the Garmin when I get home to check this, but I don't remember seeing the attributes.

 

Check your GPX file version in your account settings. It will need to be set to 1.0.1 to have attributes included.

 

image.png.276d8dddb0acb59097d23ad1dd969301.png

Edited by barefootjeff
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On 10/7/2019 at 11:58 PM, barefootjeff said:

A couple more that confuse me a bit are:

  • Significant Hike - how does this differ from the hike distance attributes (short, medium or long hike), the Difficult Climbing attribute and the terrain rating? In other words, what makes a hike significant?
  • Available During Winter - I live in a subtropical region where there's never any ice or snow and winter is often the best time for caching, yet a fair few caches around here have this attribute set. How do they differ from those that don't? And for those in snowy places, how does that differ from the Seasonal Access attribute?

 

Around here Available During Winter is generally used when the container is placed on or near the ground, where it might be covered in snow.   Sometimes reading attributes with an inverse helps understand them better.  What sort of conditions might make a cache "NOT Available During Winter".

 

Around here are a fair number of rural roads that are not maintained during winter.  Unless one has a snowmobile they're mostly impassable.  There are also areas which are closed during winter.   There's a gorge about a 7 minute walk from here that has a couple of caches along a stone trail (and several waterfalls).   It is posted as "Closed" every winter due to the ice and dangerous conditions.   Some might use the Seasonal Access for areas with active hunting seasons.

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4 minutes ago, haydn.seek said:

WHAT IS THE HANDSHAKING ATTRIBUTE?

 

You mean this one?

 

image.png.5680ec1ce83b6e553b50d429f874cf67.png

 

The Partnership Cache attribute "is awarded to geocaches developed in partnership between Groundspeak and another company. Groundspeak works to provide a limited number of entertaining sponsored caches in order to bring another element of fun to the activity."

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4 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

The Partnership Cache attribute "is awarded to geocaches developed in partnership between Groundspeak and another company. Groundspeak works to provide a limited number of entertaining sponsored caches in order to bring another element of fun to the activity."

 

I translate this as:

 

"A partnership cache is an advertisement cache giving Groundspeak money. It has nothing to do with 'another element of fun' but that sounds better."

 

For me it is an attribute that I do not need. :-)

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Just a brief on what the few of these that exist are about.  These aren't commercial enterprises.

 


This cache is part of a series of other geocaches. The Jim Henson Company has hidden Dinosaur Train themed geocaches nationwide with the help of local PBS stations

 

Welcome to The Museum of Flight's Spaceflight Academy. Spaceflight is one of the most challenging human accomplishments. This geocache is not quite that challenging.

 

To find this geocache, follow the coordinates to the front steps of the Fort Negley Interpretive Center and then come inside and ask any of the very helpful folks behind the counter if they will assist you in locating the geocache.

 

WNET's Dinosaur Train geocache is located just off the 66th Street entrance to Central Park, just a couple blocks from the station's new studio at Lincoln Center.

 

Welcome to the Timberland Trail of Heroes. This is one of 5 Timberland Trail of Heroes geocaches hidden in Paris.

 

The Museum of Geocaching is the first project of its kind in Europe, which was created in cooperation with Geocaching HQ.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, masterninja said:

What about the lost and found attribute? I tried to do a pocket query for any hides with this one and the partnership attribute for about a 1000 miles and nothing came back. How do you finds caches with them?

 

Wasn't "lost and found"  changed to Community Celebration Events ?

 

IIRC, the last L&F cache had the attribute removed in 2016.  It wasn't supposed to have it .  :)

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19 hours ago, masterninja said:

What about the lost and found attribute? I tried to do a pocket query for any hides with this one and the partnership attribute for about a 1000 miles and nothing came back. How do you finds caches with them?

 

This was used in 2010 to denote 10 Years! events that would have a lackey in attendance. There was at least one cache that had the attribute either mistakenly, or maliciously, added; this was fixed, as cerebus1 notes. As far as I know, they's gone and not coming back, so you can't find 'em.

 

I was caching in 2010 and didn't manage to pick one up either. Somehow my life has gone on despite this glaring omission. :laughing:

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