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daddybeth

What to call six caches + bonus cache

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Hi, 

 

Apologies for a dumb question. 

 

I want to do a Cluedo themed series of caches placed closely together. It won't be explicitly called Cluedo, but there will be six caches themed around each murder weapon. E.g. one cache will be suspended at the end of a noose under a raised footpath. One will be in a revolving puzzle container. Etc. 

 

The first five caches work as traditional caches, you can cache them individually if you want to. 

 

The sixth is locked and you are explicitly told you need clues from the previous five to open it. 

 

When you open the sixth you are told there is a bonus cache but you can only get the coords if you have noticed the clues from the previous five to tell you the murderer. There won't be attention drawn to the clues in the first five, but if you realise the Cluedo theme you will probably notice the clue. 

 

How do I log these caches? I don't think its a multi cache because the first five are standalone which just just happen to tie closely together. 

 

Thanks in advance for your help. 

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5 minutes ago, Lynx Humble said:

The seventh cache seems to be a bonus cache of a bonus cache that are NOT allowed.

 

In one way yes - but it is a traditional cache with lock. It is not a bonus in this context if you publish it as a traditional cache with a lock.

- Five traditional caches without fieldpuzzle

- One traditional with fieldpuzzle

- One mystery bonus cache.

Edited by arisoft
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1 hour ago, daddybeth said:

I want to do a Cluedo themed series of caches placed closely together.

It won't be explicitly called Cluedo, but there will be six caches themed around each murder weapon.

 

The first five caches work as traditional caches, you can cache them individually if you want to

 

The sixth is locked and you are explicitly told you need clues from the previous five to open it. 

 

When you open the sixth you are told there is a bonus cache but you can only get the coords if you have noticed the clues from the previous five to tell you the murderer. There won't be attention drawn to the clues in the first five, but if you realise the Cluedo theme you will probably notice the clue. 

 

I had to google, as it's called "Clue" in the US.   :)

Curious about the sixth and bonus cache... there's no mention that you'll "need something" from the others in the series ?

Maybe just me, but if I see a "Clue" themed traditional cache with  "a clue"  in the cache, I'd simply think it's part of the theme, not something needed at a later date. 

We see that on many themed caches.  Cartoon or game characters,  scenes from a movie, etc. inside each, separate cache in the series. 

It would only be mention on the traditional caches page that would make me think it had any meaning...

If I was looking for them individually,  I'd probably look at part 1 to start.  I'd have to start at part six to get any idea what's going on ?

 

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29 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

I had to google, as it's called "Clue" in the US.   :)

Curious about the sixth and bonus cache... there's no mention that you'll "need something" from the others in the series ?

Maybe just me, but if I see a "Clue" themed traditional cache with  "a clue"  in the cache, I'd simply think it's part of the theme, not something needed at a later date. 

We see that on many themed caches.  Cartoon or game characters,  scenes from a movie, etc. inside each, separate cache in the series. 

It would only be mention on the traditional caches page that would make me think it had any meaning...

If I was looking for them individually,  I'd probably look at part 1 to start.  I'd have to start at part six to get any idea what's going on ?

 

Thank you all for your replies.

 

Cerebus, essentially yes. There would be a description that it would be highly advantageous to solve caches 1-5 first before 6. You can solve 6 without 1-5 but like Cluedo, it would require a much better guess than if you had done at least one of 1-5. If you had done 1-5 and paid attention to the Cluedo theme, you would have a very good chance of unlocking 6.

 

I wanted to make it similar to the game where, as you go on, you get an exponentially better idea of the final answer. But, like with Cluedo, in theory you could guess on your first turn and get it right. Hence six isn't really a bonus of a bonus cache because it's the last one you can get even if it would be D5/time consuming without doing at least one of the others. Cache #7 is the only one you can solve without solving at least cache #6.

 

That's why I didn't think it would be a puzzle cache. Because the co-ordinates would be provided for that cache, just not everything to easily unlock it or get the co-ords for cache #7.

Edited by daddybeth

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2 hours ago, Lynx Humble said:

The seventh cache seems to be a bonus cache of a bonus cache that are NOT allowed.

 

That's kinda what I was thinking as well.   The guidelines do say that no geocache should have more than one cache dependent on it.   

I'd ask the Reviewer what they think.      :)

Maybe that seventh can be a mystery/puzzle separate from the rest to "finalize" the series. 

Or why even have that seventh ?   Just to keep with the game (Clue) ?   Then make six traditionals as "clues" to that bonus...

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3 hours ago, arisoft said:

- Five traditional caches without fieldpuzzle

- One traditional with fieldpuzzle

- One mystery bonus cache.

 

I agree.  The definitions are based on coordinates.

 

Taking the definitions from the Help Center literally:

 

2.3. Mystery Caches

 

Puzzle caches

 

The posted coordinates are usually bogus coordinates. Geocachers must solve a puzzle on the cache page to get the coordinates for the first stage or the final container.

 

2.19. Bonus caches

 

A bonus cache is a Mystery Cache for which you have to find clues in other caches. Sometimes the coordinates for the bonus cache are in one other cache.

 

 

Caches 1 through 6 would all have coordinates listed on their respective cache pages.   Cache 7 is a bonus cache found from the other caches.

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I see another problem:

 

I think #6 will be "easy" if you have found all the clues (like in the game). #6 will be difficult if you haven't found the clues.

So as mystery cache ("bonus 1") it might have a normal difficulty rating but as traditional cache with field puzzle attribute (as intended by some) it should have a high difficulty rating.

And I am sure you want the cachers to find the clues first and then open this final cache?!

 

If I were you I would:

1) skip the seventh cache;

2) make the sixth one a real bonus: give away parts of the coordinates in each traditional 1 to 5. Add in the bonus listing that like in the real game every hint might help (hint, hint!!).

 

OR my favourite idea would be:

1) make one great multi cache with stages 1 to 5 and the 6th cache is the final;

2) add the seventh cache as bonus cache to this multi.

 

Jochen

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On 9/21/2019 at 11:22 PM, arisoft said:

- Five traditional caches without fieldpuzzle

- One traditional with fieldpuzzle

- One mystery bonus cache

 

I disagree.  If the sixth cache requires information from the first five caches to open a combination lock, then it appears to function as a bonus cache for those five caches.  A traditional cache with a field puzzle attribute is normally a stand-alone puzzle that can be opened and logged without relying on other caches.  If the sixth cache can't be opened without information from the first five caches, it's functioning as a bonus cache, regardless of whether its coordinates are listed or not.

 

Edit to add: this 2015 post from Keystone may provide some clarity.

 

If the sevent cache relies on information in the sixth cache as well as in the first five caches, it appears to be a bonus to the bonus, which is not allowed under the guidelines linked above.

 

On 9/21/2019 at 9:59 PM, daddybeth said:

one cache will be suspended at the end of a noose under a raised footpath

 

I understand that this is supposed to be connected to a murder mystery theme, but you may want to consider not using a noose for a hide.  Nooses in public spaces may be more associated with lynching than with board games.  Your mileage may vary in the UK.

 

 

Edited by hzoi
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Just now, hzoi said:

I disagree.  If the sixth cache requires information from the first five caches to open a combination lock, then it appears to function as a bonus cache for those five caches.

 

In this case it should be published as a mystery cache. The lock does not require hints from other caches. It is just harder to open without hints. If the reviewer accepts it as a traditional cache then there is no daisy chainging problem.

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15 minutes ago, arisoft said:
21 minutes ago, hzoi said:

I disagree.  If the sixth cache requires information from the first five caches to open a combination lock, then it appears to function as a bonus cache for those five caches.

 

In this case it should be published as a mystery cache. The lock does not require hints from other caches. It is just harder to open without hints. If the reviewer accepts it as a traditional cache then there is no daisy chainging problem.

 

Assuming a combination lock with five numeric dials, there would be 100,000 possible combinations; assuming a standard MasterLock, 64,000.  Though I am aware of the different techniques that can be used to open a lock without the combination, that does not appear to be the OP's intent.  I believe a reviewer would be more inclined to view this as a bonus cache than a field puzzle.

Edited by hzoi
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Just now, hzoi said:

I believe a reviewer would be more inclined to view this as a bonus cache than a field puzzle.

 

In this case it is better not to tell about those hints. You may remember another case where a reviewer insisted that a locked cache must be published as a traditional instead of mystery because it is at the published coordinates.

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Thanks all.

 

I'm loathed to do a multicache in this area because in the past it appears a lot of caches have been muggled. I want to make mine more difficult so hopefully this is less likely, but still, it would be really annoying to get to the fifth cache and find it missing, even if promptly maintained.

 

I may change it a bit. Having seven caches was more aesthetic because I wanted one for each murder weapon, then a bonus at the end. But obviously I don't want to be playing at the edge of what is possible.

 

With the noose definitely agree @hzoi not a good idea to have a literal noose :) every "weapon" will actually be representative so will not appear to be a weapon/litter to muggles. So for instance, the candlestick is a large stick that I have concealed the cache in, but with a camoed candle on one end. Lead pipe will use a dog lead and pipe rather than an actual poisonous metal. I can see a large chance of a knock on the door from plod if I start hiding actual daggers :lol:

 

Think I will probably go with six traditional + bonus. Shame as it would be perfect as a multi. Might consider relocating it but the location I want is a fitness loop which used to have seven geocaches but all but one have disappeared. Just seems such a gap on the map whenever I check.

Edited by daddybeth

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10 hours ago, daddybeth said:

I'm loathed to do a multicache in this area because in the past it appears a lot of caches have been muggled. I want to make mine more difficult so hopefully this is less likely, but still, it would be really annoying to get to the fifth cache and find it missing, even if promptly maintained.

 

It is possible to make a multi which allows some waypoints to be missing. You may list all waypoints in the description. No matter what order they are found and the final gets easier when more hints are collected from the waypoints.

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On 9/21/2019 at 12:59 PM, daddybeth said:

The first five caches work as traditional caches, you can cache them individually if you want to. 

 

The sixth is locked and you are explicitly told you need clues from the previous five to open it. 

 

When you open the sixth you are told there is a bonus cache but you can only get the coords if you have noticed the clues from the previous five to tell you the murderer. There won't be attention drawn to the clues in the first five, but if you realise the Cluedo theme you will probably notice the clue. 

 

This is similar to a series I have placed (Series of 3 Sudoku puzzles,  each solvable and findable on their own as 3 individual puzzle caches).  On the top of each logsheet is a 2 letter code.  There is a 4th, BONUS cache that needs these 3 2 letter codes to solve the puzzle for the coordinates to the BONUS cache.  You can solve the Sudoku on the BONUS, but you will have a diffcult time turning that solution into coordinates without the codes from the previous 3.  I su[[ose someone could brute force the solution, but it's way easier with the codes!!

 

I'm a bit confused on the, apparently, 7th cache?  That is also dependent on previous caches, but you don't know of it until you open #6? You'd need to publish it with bogus ccords, and folks will see iteven without finding #6, unless I'm misunderstanding.

On 9/23/2019 at 2:27 PM, daddybeth said:

Think I will probably go with six traditional + bonus.

 

Or possibly 6 puzzles and a bonus - make it more challenging!  This makes more sense to me.

 

Good luck with the series - sounds like a fun one!

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