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Use of html <blockquote> in long descriptions

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Just to be clear, the html <blockquote> is a device used to quote "A section from another source.  The <blockquote> tag specifies a section that is quoted from another source."  My source for this is w3schools.com, but there are other sources out there.  See the example they give and note: NO QUOTATION MARKS AROUND THE SECTION QUOTED!!!!!  The blockquote does NOT state to add quotation marks within blockquote tag.  Added quotation marks would need to have special markup to state that the quotation marks are yours, not the author's per MLA.  Bottom line, those categories that insist on quotation marks be used, even with blockquotes; those categories need not to allow blockquotes, then, as the quotation marks are superfluous and redundant.  The html code makes for a nicer writeup and easier for the person writing up the page.  I'm sorry that we have to give participation awards to those people who cannot complete a proper waymark writeup without punishing those of us who do it correctly.

 

As for me and the categories I lead, those waymarkers who do use html and use the <blockquote> html tag, those waymarks that include quotation marks within blockquote will be denied from this point forward.  I'm sorry it had to come to this, if waymarks are being denied for the use of proper html <blockquote> tag style, they darn sure will be denied for the improper use.

 

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Just now, The Leprechauns said:

Thanks for reminding me why I don't create waymarks anymore.  Enjoy your fun!

Much better to go looking under lamp post skirts and finding wet logs as you learn so much more that way, correct?  Unfortunately, geocaching has turned into a game where numbers are king and the original idea of actually placing caches at places where you learn something is LONG gone.  

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Well said Tom. I fully agree with your comments regarding <blockquote>. I have used it for years, even italicising quoted text and keep getting the odd denial for not using quotation marks as well.

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I don't use the <blockquote> tag in my waymarks, but nevertheless I ask myself (and you) several questions:

  • Isn't it somehow ridiculous to insist on perfect HTML code, if every waymark is full of invalid code that is coming from Groundspeak? For example: http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMC6DV_iconions contains 230 Errors, 118 warnings but you would deny a new waymark because it has one more error?
  • If you insist on the above - does that mean that every officer has to be a pro with HTML?
  • If you see quotation marks in a blockquote, will you check the source and see if the quotation marks are there or added by the WM owner?
  • Isn't w3.org the website that is defining HTML standards or why shall we suddenly care about what w3schools.com is thinking? According to themselves they are not affiliated with w3.org.
  • Even if the example of w3.org or w3schools.com doesn't show quotation marks within the blockquote tag doesn't necessarily mean, that they are forbidden. I for example wouldn't create something like <h1><strong>Headline</strong></h1>, but it's not forbidden.

And finally my suggestion would be:

 

<p>&quot;</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Quoted text</p>

</blockquote>

<p>&quot;</p>

 

Will look awful, but you have quotation marks to fulfill the category rules and they are not within the blockquote tag. Beautiful new world! :-)

 

Edited by PISA-caching
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13 minutes ago, PISA-caching said:

I don't use the <blockquote> tag in my waymarks, but nevertheless I ask myself (and you) several questions:

  • Isn't it somehow ridiculous to insist on perfect HTML code, if every waymark is full of invalid code that is coming from Groundspeak? For example: http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMC6DV_iconions contains 230 Errors, 118 warnings but you would deny a new waymark because it has one more error?
  • If you insist on the above - does that mean that every officer has to be a pro with HTML?
  • If you see quotation marks in a blockquote, will you check the source and see if the quotation marks are there or added by the WM owner?
  • Isn't w3.org the website that is defining HTML standards or why shall we suddenly care about what w3schools.com is thinking? According to themselves they are not affiliated with w3.org.
  • Even if the example of w3.org or w3schools.com doesn't show quotation marks within the blockquote tag doesn't necessarily mean, that they are forbidden. I for example wouldn't create something like <h1><strong>Headline</strong></h1>, but it's not forbidden.

And finally my suggestion would be:

 

<p>&quot;</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Quoted text</p>

</blockquote>

<p>&quot;</p>

 

Will look aweful, but you have quotation marks to fulfill the category rules and they are not within the blockquote tag. Beautiful new world! :-)

 

Thanks for the suggestion.  I do appreciate it.  This doesn't put paragraph marks around the text, only the blockquote.  Probably puts it in the grey area and could be a reason for another denial.   As of right now, I have deleted the offending material as it isn't required to the waymark.  It would be nice to have in there as it gives some pretty nice history.
 

If I decide to restore that material, and do this absolutely properly, I have to:

<blockquote>

<p>(")Quoted text(")</p>

<blockquote>

Putting the quotation marks in the parentheses notifies the readers, per MLA (this is a standard English writing style guide  - Modern Language Association), that those marks are mine, not the original author's. 
Those quotation marks in parentheses would be just as confusing, and this is stated as no offense to anyone as English has some of the worse rules when it comes to proper punctuation.  There is a reason there is such a creature as the MLA guide!  Again, a huge can of worms gets opened by just saying - put in the quotation marks in the blockquote.  They are not needed and are totally unnecessary and redundant.

 

Or, do this entirely old school and skip the html.  I prefer the html as it makes a little cleaner look to the page, personal preference and stubbornness on my part.

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1 hour ago, iconions said:

Or, do this entirely old school and skip the html.  I prefer the html as it makes a little cleaner look to the page, personal preference and stubbornness on my part.

 

Or do it like me and use HTML, but not the blockquote tag. My main reason for ignoring the blockquote tag is, that often my quotations are the only content I have (see for example http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WM1133K) especially when I want a description in the local language that I never learned. And (IMHO) it makes no sense  to have all the content in a blockquote tag. If you have a good reason why the blockquote tag is important, let me know.

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So, what's the problem? I don't get it.

 

All very well thought out and said, but I feel there is something going wrong that was the trigger for this post, and you didn't say what.

 

I can imagine something, but maybe I am wrong, so first the facts:

 

Despite the horribly poor reputation of w3cschools among professionals, I think they are a valuable source for beginners, we are just not their target audience; and they are actually correct in this case. The <blockquote> tag is the correct markup for citations (longer ones - paragraphs - , there is also the <q> tag for shorter inline quotes and this one does add quotation marks around the quote). But it has a problem: it is not obvious. It lets other machines read the page semantically correct, search engine spiders will know this is a quote and when the "cite" attribute is set, they even know where it is from. Great! But they are not our primary target audience. The visible appearance of this tag is normally just an indention, not obvious enough - not obvious at all - for human readers that this is a citation.

 

So, the blockquote is the semantically correct replacement (yes - replacement, not just an addition) for quotation marks, it is even better and - in theory - it makes them redundant. We do not need both. But the many categories that require citations to be marked, have this requirement because humans need to see it, not machines, and unfortunately the <blockquote> tag does not fulfill this requirement without additional styling.

 

So, I do understand officers who do not accept the tag alone to mark quotes, because they do not understand the meaning and - although they are actually wrong - this means that other users will neither understand the meaning - and this makes them sort of right, because that is what this requirement is all about.

 

The MLA solution (") in brackets is for an academic audience, for the average waymarker it's just ugly and confusing (well, it's ugly for anyone). About half of the users are not native English speakers and we have some native speakers here who make it hard to believe that their poor English is their only language. The MLA is not for us, I guess.

 

My suggestion is to only use the blockquote tag in a way to make it obvious. Like have it always preceded by a line that defines the source and ends with a colon and then make the qoute more prominent: italics, borders and/or background colors etc.

 

Something like this:

 

<p>Albert Einstein said:</p>

<blockquote style="border:1px solid #666666;font-style:italic"> <p>Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. </p></blockquote>

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