Fighting for Entitled Favourite Points

[+Mister Doctor 3]

I want to make a case for obtaining 20 favorite points I believe I’m entitled to. Had anyone else been in a similar position?

 

About a year ago, with around 300 finds, I trialled Premium membership for a month. At the time I received the 30 prorated favorite points that were due to those finds.

 

I wasn’t in a position then to purchase Premium membership, but a year later I was gifted Premium for my birthday. By that time I had made a 500 finds, however I did not receive the additional 20 favorite points I had earned.

 

I am aware of the condition that states that if your paid membership lapses you do not earn FP in the interim. However, I had not ever been paying member. I was exploring a free trial, and a trial by definition leads either to taking up an offer or not. At that time I didn’t take up the offer and so a paid membership never lapsed.

 

It’s disappointing that the moment when I was able to be a paying member was also when my benefits were reduced.

 

I am a strong advocate for cache quality and am keen to recognise quality caches I had found. I have 53 hides myself which have earned 728 FP and 3 Victorian Cache of the Year Awards over the past 2.5 years.

 

Hoping to find a way to claim back these points

 

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

Mister Doctor 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Mister Doctor
sent too soon

[+The Jester 564]

???

[+Max and 99 2147]

You're going to have to be more selective when awarding Favorite Points. That's all you get.

[+colleda 834]

How many FPs do you have now?

How many FPs have you awarded?

[+Max and 99 2147]

16 minutes ago, colleda said:

How many FPs do you have now?

How many FPs have you awarded?

I think: Awarded 45

[+niraD 3172]

The first time you get premium membership ("I trialled Premium membership for a month"), you get FP for any Finds you logged prior to that. If you let your premium membership lapse, then you don't get FP for the Finds you logged while your premium membership was lapsed. That's just the way Groundspeak set it up.

[+Max and 99 2147]

1 hour ago, Mister Doctor said:

I am a strong advocate for cache quality and am keen to recognise quality caches I had found

My preferred method of rewarding cache quality is writing a great log for the CO to enjoy. 

[+cerberus1 3218]

1 hour ago, Mister Doctor said:

I want to make a case for obtaining 20 favorite points I believe I’m entitled to. Had anyone else been in a similar position?

About a year ago, with around 300 finds, I trialled Premium membership for a month. At the time I received the 30 prorated favorite points that were due to those finds.

I wasn’t in a position then to purchase Premium membership, but a year later I was gifted Premium for my birthday. By that time I had made a 500 finds, however I did not receive the additional 20 favorite points I had earned.

I am aware of the condition that states that if your paid membership lapses you do not earn FP in the interim. However, I had not ever been paying member. I was exploring a free trial, and a trial by definition leads either to taking up an offer or not. At that time I didn’t take up the offer and so a paid membership never lapsed.

It’s disappointing that the moment when I was able to be a paying member was also when my benefits were reduced.

I am a strong advocate for cache quality and am keen to recognise quality caches I had found. I have 53 hides myself which have earned 728 FP and 3 Victorian Cache of the Year Awards over the past 2.5 years.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

Okay, let's see if I get it...  

You got a free trial membership, and the site treated you as if you were actually a paid PM,  by giving you all FPs earned up to then.  Correct ?

Now you're disappointed that the time from your change to basic afterwards, and being gifted another PM doesn't count for FPs.  That about right ? 

 - So you were able to receive a free PM with full benefits, including all past FPs, and now you feel entitled to more.  Close ?

 

[+colleda 834]

1 hour ago, Max and 99 said:

I think: Awarded 45

If you had been premium the whole time you would have earned 66. Less about 45 you say you have awarded then you would now have, about 21. From that 21 you would need to deduct 1 for every ten finds while you were not premium. Correct?

The question remains, how many FPs do you have now? None?

[+Crow-T-Robot 153]

I think you're hung up on the word trial. It seems like you feel it means you weren't actually a premium member during that time and that's simply not the case. 

 

While it was a trial Premium membership, during that trial period, you had full access to all of the premium perks. You opted to not continue being a premium member when the trial term ended, but you WERE a premium member and chose to allow it to lapse. You didn't earn any additional favorite points because you were no longer a premium member. 

[+K13 995]

To date you have been a Premium Member two different times, neither of which you paid for. Why do you feel entitled to something that other PM who lapsed their paid status never receive?

Yes, it has happened to others, me included. I've never seen anyone else ask, and can only imagine the storm if word got out that your wish is granted.

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by K13
Speeling

[+Max and 99 2147]

Groundspeak is missing out. Just think of the money they could make selling extra favorite points to those who want more. 😃😁

[+MartyBartfast 778]

4 hours ago, Mister Doctor said:

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

Contact Groundspeak direct using the Contact Us link at the bottom of the pages and make your case to them, they may or may not take pity on you.

 

What anyone on these forums thinks is pretty irrelevant.

 

FWIW I've got loads of FPs I haven't used and would let you have some if it was possible.

[+Mister Doctor 3]

I’m lucky that in my area there are many terrific caches which have meant I’ve given out all the FP in my account. I could easily give out more - thanks for the offer

 

I’ve been emailing Geocaching HQ support, and then my local reviewer suggested I also post to the forums.

 

My issue is really that it wasn’t clear to me that a Premium trial came with conditions. The main one being that if I didn’t then purchase membership there would be a penalty.

 

In general I really love what Groundspeak is doing, and am a big fan of the game. In this instance I think they got it wrong and as a result it’s taken some of the shine off being a member.

 

[+arisoft 811]

2 hours ago, Mister Doctor said:

The main one being that if I didn’t then purchase membership there would be a penalty.

 

I think that it is meant to be a punishment for not being a member. I understand your point between paying member and trial membership. I hope that HQ will comply with the terms of the contract.

[+frostengel 830]

6 hours ago, niraD said:

The first time you get premium membership [...], you get FP for any Finds you logged prior to that. If you let your premium membership lapse, then you don't get FP for the Finds you logged while your premium membership was lapsed. That's just the way Groundspeak set it up. 

 

That explains all and this was new to me. Thank you, niraD.

 

In fact I totally understand the original poster (and I found the first entry completely understandable!) and think that Groundspeak's system is nonsense here. They should give those favourite points to everyone whenever they get premium, again.

 

It should be much easier for the system, shouldn't it be? At the moment they have to keep track (and remember!) how many favourite points you have when degrading down to member. Else they only had to calculate

 

1 (I think there is one bonus FP in the beginning) + (numbers of finds)/10 (rounded) = earned favourites

earned favourites - given favourites = remaining favourites

 

I think of someone being a premium member from 2014 to 2016 and then lose interest in the game. With the actual system they need to save those remaining favourites forever. With the other system they could forget those and just calculate them new if he regains interest in 2035.

 

So I see no basic advantage of the actual system. :-(

 

Mister Doctor, I feel with you (and others). :-(

[+cerberus1 3218]

5 hours ago, Mister Doctor said:

My issue is really that it wasn’t clear to me that a Premium trial came with conditions. The main one being that if I didn’t then purchase membership there would be a penalty.

In general I really love what Groundspeak is doing, and am a big fan of the game. In this instance I think they got it wrong and as a result it’s taken some of the shine off being a member.

 

I would have been happy that I was given all past FPs  simply by requesting a trial PM.    

You have to ask for a PM, unless the site allows all basic members PM for a promotion.  That's happened a while ago.

Who knows, maybe there's a lot of people confused about what they're entitled to now...

I'd think that if the site gives in because you feel "cheated" somehow,  they'd have to get all their attorneys together to add more language for the next person that complains about the site doing a good turn for them.

It'd probably be easier to discontinue free trial premium memberships altogether.  

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by cerberus1

[+kunarion 2549]

12 hours ago, Mister Doctor said:

I am aware of the condition that states that if your paid membership lapses you do not earn FP in the interim. However, I had not ever been paying member.

 

There is no distinction between Premium Memberships, trial or not. The Help Center seems to not be official policy, but this may be a more thorough caveat:

"If you found caches as a Basic member, you are prorated Favorite points the first time you become a Premium member. If your subscription lapses for any reason, you will not earn Favorite points until you renew your Premium membership, at which time the Favorite points will start accruing again at one Favorite point per 10 finds."

 

The Reviewer who told you to post in the Forum probably intended that you create a feature request here.  Best case scenario, the Help Center (or whatever) may get a better explanation of various cases (such as what may lapse after Premium Member Free Trial before a paid Premium Membership occurs), but I can't imagine that it would make the situation simpler.  The official text sometimes contradicts or is worded in odd ways, and tends to not be thorough.  So it's often tough to know what the various policies/guidelines actually are.

 

But if your case is adjusted and you're awarded points, a lot of others will expect it, too, beyond just a "trial PM" situation.

[+cerberus1 3218]

5 minutes ago, kunarion said:

But if your case is adjusted and you're awarded points, a lot of others will expect it, too, beyond just a "trial PM" situation.

 

Yep.  Over the years I've gone back to basic a few times.    Mostly when something "new" bugged me. 

That was when I was caching much more than lately.  Add in maybe a couple thousand people similar, and it might be interesting here...

I still have 35 left, so adding more may help with less finds found lately, but I'll "run out" eventually anyway.  

No big deal.   No one had favorite points until the month/year that the OP joined. 

I feel bad for all those classic, older caches that got "shortchanged" FPs too...  

 

 

[RuideAlmeida 545]

14 hours ago, Mister Doctor said:

I am aware of the condition that states that if your paid membership lapses you do not earn FP in the interim. However, I had not ever been paying member.

 

Just needed to read this part several times...

If I understood correctly, you seem to think that a paying Premium Member should have less perks than anyone that is PM simply after a voucher offer?

How that makes any sense???

Instead of stop offering such vouchers, probably a good move would be to give less perks (such as FPs) with them, I guess...

Problem solve!

[+arisoft 811]

28 minutes ago, RuideAlmeida said:

How that makes any sense???

 

I avoided this pitfall by not using a trial membership. When I paid for the membership I got all benefits. Mister Doctor didn't. Do you think that he deserves this treatment?

[+TeamRabbitRun 495]

9 hours ago, Mister Doctor said:

I’m lucky that in my area there are many terrific caches which have meant I’ve given out all the FP in my account. I could easily give out more - thanks for the offer

 

I’ve been emailing Geocaching HQ support, and then my local reviewer suggested I also post to the forums.

 

My issue is really that it wasn’t clear to me that a Premium trial came with conditions. The main one being that if I didn’t then purchase membership there would be a penalty.

 

In general I really love what Groundspeak is doing, and am a big fan of the game. In this instance I think they got it wrong and as a result it’s taken some of the shine off being a member.

 

 

I think HQ suggested that you should post to the forums is so that you would get the shellacking you're now getting from us. Maybe WE could make you understand.

 

My guess is that they explained the rules, and you chose to not accept them.

 

Very simple:

1. You get FP credit for every cache you find as a PM.

2. As a "Thank You" for people who INITIALLY make the move to become PM after 'trying' the hobby as a Basic member, HQ retroactively awards FP credit for all your finds to-date. That's a great thing; I've NEVER seen a company do anything remotely like that.

3. THAT'S ALL!

 

When you lapsed your P-Membership, you no longer qualified for Condition #1.

When you became a PM the second time, it wasn't your INITIAL choice to go Premium, so you don't qualify for Condition #2.

 

The fact that both of your PM-ships came to you FREE makes it a little head-shaking that you would spend so much time demanding a perk that NO ONE GETS; NOT EVEN THE PEOPLE WHO PAID FOR THEIR MEMBERSHIPS.

 

That's more than a little self-entitled, donchathink?

 

Here's your recourse: If you want more FPs to award to the great COs around you, then get up, go out AND FIND MORE CACHES.

 

 

Finally, you said that not getting these FPs added to your account when you aren't entitled to them and didn't earn them has "taken some of the shine off being a member".

 

Are you kidding me? THAT spoils your experience? Maybe you're in this for the wrong reason; go try Pokémon GO.

[+arisoft 811]

2 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

My guess is that they explained the rules, and you chose to not accept them.

 

This is a good topic. In this case, rules are easy to explain but hard to justify.  This is a bad deal for every participant.

[+TeamRabbitRun 495]

6 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

This is a good topic. In this case, rules are easy to explain but hard to justify.  This is a bad deal for every participant.

 

No, easy to explain, and easy to justify.

Not a bad deal for any participant.

Is this going to devolve into that old conversation about how there shouldn't be any features that are only available to Premium Members?

Edited September 6, 2019 by TeamRabbitRun

[+niraD 3172]

5 minutes ago, arisoft said:

This is a good topic. In this case, rules are easy to explain but hard to justify. 

There are a lot of quirks to the allocation of Favorite points. This is just one of them.

 

My guess is that this is intended to prevent perceived abuse. Groundspeak would rather someone be a premium member for several years, awarding Favorite points as they go. Groundspeak doesn't want someone to get a month of premium membership every couple years, then award Favorite points for the caches found as a basic member, and then repeat the cycle over and over and over.

[+arisoft 811]

1 hour ago, niraD said:

My guess is that this is intended to prevent perceived abuse. Groundspeak would rather someone be a premium member for several years, awarding Favorite points as they go. Groundspeak doesn't want someone to get a month of premium membership every couple years, then award Favorite points for the caches found as a basic member, and then repeat the cycle over and over and over.

 

This is a rational explanation generally but not suitable for this particular case. In this case the player may consider being a basic member just because GS ripped off benefits he should earn being a paying customer. There is no way GS could benefit from the situation they have created.

Edited September 6, 2019 by arisoft

[+The A-Team 1858]

11 hours ago, Mister Doctor said:

My issue is really that it wasn’t clear to me that a Premium trial came with conditions. The main one being that if I didn’t then purchase membership there would be a penalty.

 

It isn't a penalty, because you didn't lose anything. What happened is that you didn't receive something that you never had before.

 

It seems like most of the people responding here have a pretty strong opinion that you don't have a case, and I agree with them. The rules have been the same for many years and I don't believe that exceptions should be made because that leads to a slippery slope.

 

In the end, this is a fairly minor thing to quibble over. You don't have enough FPs to give one to each of the top 66 caches that you've found because you lost out on those benefits, so just give one to the top 45 of those instead. As Max and 99 said, writing a good log can often be more rewarding than a FP.

[+TeamRabbitRun 495]

11 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

This is a rational explanation generally but not suitable for this particular case. In this case the player may consider being a basic member just because GS ripped off benefits he should earn being a paying customer. There is no way GS could benefit from the situation they have created.

 

in what way did GS "rip off" benefits he "should earn being a paying customer"? The 'Paying Customer' thing aside (let's substitute "Premium Member" because apparently he wasn't a paying customer), he didn't earn those benefits.  Go back and read the rules.

 

If you insure your house against theft and let it lapse at the end of the year, then get burgled the following year, do you expect to be able to take out another insurance policy in the third year and collect on the theft in year 2?

 

 

AND, as far as GS benefiting from the situation, of course they could. If he wants to keep earning FPs, he'll keep renewing his PM!

Edited September 6, 2019 by TeamRabbitRun

[+The A-Team 1858]

I think it's also worth noting that the title of this discussion is flawed. It's clear that you were never entitled to those FPs, so what you're asking for is an exception to a rule, not a correction of an error.

 

The part of the Help Center that discusses this issue doesn't say anything about "paid membership", so your argument on that point is baseless.

 

(bolding mine)

Quote

If you found caches as a Basic member, you are prorated Favorite points the first time you become a Premium member. If your subscription lapses for any reason, you will not earn Favorite points until you renew your Premium membership, at which time the Favorite points will start accruing again at one Favorite point per 10 finds.

 

Sorry for piling on, but I think some of us get sick of this current age of entitlement. Sometimes things won't go your way in life, so you'll have to just accept that you lost out on these benefits and move on.

[+arisoft 811]

1 minute ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

in what way did GS "rip off" benefits he "should earn being a paying customer"? The 'Paying Customer' thing aside (let's substitute "Premium Member" because apparently he wasn't a paying customer), he didn't earn those benefits.  Go back and read the rules.

 

Everything is explained in the OP.  The customer is disappointed and the situation is not good for the business. As I told, it is easy to explain, even you can do it, but hard to justify.

 

1 minute ago, The A-Team said:

so you'll have to just accept that you lost out on these benefits and move on.

 

Yes, this is the point, he lost out those benefits. And the question is, should he? Which way GS would gain more profit when a player considers being a paying member? Ripping of benefits wouldn't be in my mind when trying to get a new customer.

[+Corfman Clan 44]

12 hours ago, Mister Doctor said:

My issue is really that it wasn’t clear to me that a Premium trial came with conditions. The main one being that if I didn’t then purchase membership there would be a penalty.

What penalty? Favorite points are a part of premium membership. If you're not a premium member you don't have access to premium member features. Did you get upset about not having access to other premium features such as better search facilities, lists, and pocket queries?

[+niraD 3172]

41 minutes ago, arisoft said:

As I told, it is easy to explain, even you can do it, but hard to justify.

Yeah, I don't know how Groundspeak can justify giving FP for caches found by basic members. Sure, they only do it the first time someone becomes a premium member, but it's still completely unjustified. 

[+arisoft 811]

47 minutes ago, niraD said:

Yeah, I don't know how Groundspeak can justify giving FP for caches found by basic members. Sure, they only do it the first time someone becomes a premium member, but it's still completely unjustified. 

 

It is a bait, like a free toaster you get when you open a bank account .

[+Mister Doctor 3]

6 hours ago, kunarion said:

The Help Center seems to not be official policy, but this may be a more thorough caveat:

"If you found caches as a Basic member, you are prorated Favorite points the first time you become a Premium member. If your subscription lapses for any reason, you will not earn Favorite points until you renew your Premium membership, at which time the Favorite points will start accruing again at one Favorite point per 10 finds." ...

 

... But if your case is adjusted and you're awarded points, a lot of others will expect it, too, beyond just a "trial PM" situation.

 

I get that Groundspeak wants subscribers to keep on subscribing, but in a trial you aren’t yet a subscriber. When you subscribe to something money is involved.

 

In fact, I agree that getting prorated favourite points in a free trial is unnecessary. It would be a far better incentive to prorate them only when you become a paid member.

 

This is where I (and I’m sure others) have lost out. Particularly if we have still been finding caches after the trial whilst weighing up the pros and cons of Premium membership.

 

Would it be so bad to prorate favourite points to a lot of others in a similar position? These are committed cachers who haven’t dropped out of the game, but instead have gone on to be paying members. They’re not asking for free points, they’ve still made the finds required to earn them. Surely giving them these FP to award can only be good for geocaching?

 

It’s also clear you can only get a single free trial, so this situation is quite specific to the gap between a trial and paid membership.

 

 

 

 

[+joesdolphins 11]

19 hours ago, Mister Doctor said:

I want to make a case for obtaining 20 favorite points I believe I’m entitled to. Had anyone else been in a similar position?

 

About a year ago, with around 300 finds, I trialled Premium membership for a month. At the time I received the 30 prorated favorite points that were due to those finds.

 

I wasn’t in a position then to purchase Premium membership, but a year later I was gifted Premium for my birthday. By that time I had made a 500 finds, however I did not receive the additional 20 favorite points I had earned.

 

I am aware of the condition that states that if your paid membership lapses you do not earn FP in the interim. However, I had not ever been paying member. I was exploring a free trial, and a trial by definition leads either to taking up an offer or not. At that time I didn’t take up the offer and so a paid membership never lapsed.

 

It’s disappointing that the moment when I was able to be a paying member was also when my benefits were reduced.

 

I am a strong advocate for cache quality and am keen to recognise quality caches I had found. I have 53 hides myself which have earned 728 FP and 3 Victorian Cache of the Year Awards over the past 2.5 years.

 

Hoping to find a way to claim back these points

 

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

Mister Doctor 

 

 

Really

[+Max and 99 2147]

38 minutes ago, Mister Doctor said:

I get that Groundspeak wants subscribers to keep on subscribing, but in a trial you aren’t yet a subscriber. When you subscribe to something money is involved.

My bolding. My experience is the opposite. Most things I subscribe to are free. 

[+kunarion 2549]

52 minutes ago, Mister Doctor said:

Surely giving them these FP to award can only be good for geocaching?

 

Well I’m convinced.  I’ve placed all the Favorite points into your account that I possibly can.  I hope it’s not too many.  It’s hard to get this exactly right.

[+Harry Dolphin 1131]

It seems to be a matter of semantics.  

Quote

Earn Favorite points

Only Premium members earn Favorite points.

• One Favorite point just for being a Premium Member.
• One Favorite point for every 10 caches they find. (Duplicate finds and finds on your owned caches are also not included.)

The fine print: If you found caches as a Basic member, you are prorated Favorite points the first time you become a Premium member. If your subscription lapses for any reason, you will not earn Favorite points until you renew your Premium membership, at which time the Favorite points will start accruing again at one Favorite point per 10 finds.

 

The definition is for 'premium members'.  Not for 'paying members'. The OP was a Premium Member, and earned Favorite Points for all previous finds.  When he let his premium membership lapse, he did not earn any favorite points during that lapse.  

[+cerberus1 3218]

2 hours ago, Mister Doctor said:

I get that Groundspeak wants subscribers to keep on subscribing, but in a trial you aren’t yet a subscriber. When you subscribe to something money is involved.

 

This is where I (and I’m sure others) have lost out. Particularly if we have still been finding caches after the trial whilst weighing up the pros and cons of Premium membership.

 

Would it be so bad to prorate favourite points to a lot of others in a similar position? These are committed cachers who haven’t dropped out of the game, but instead have gone on to be paying members. They’re not asking for free points, they’ve still made the finds required to earn them. Surely giving them these FP to award can only be good for geocaching?

 

Lost out ?    Odd how we even managed to survive the hobby without favorite points it's first ten years, isn't it ? 

The whole idea of free trials is thinking  that the person will see the benefits and  become PMs.    

During that time, you have access to "advanced" as well as premium member-only caches,  PQs,  notifications,  advanced searches,  lists,  full function on their apps,  and yeah, favorite points.

Never heard of anyone shelling out 30 bucks to become PM for FPs,  but for the helpful "extras" to access caches. 

In one month's time a "free trial" PM could load most-every PMO cache in their state, and a crazy-amount of "advanced" caches too.   

 - That's 10,  1000-cache PQs a day.    Free.

Maybe that's why the site's now smart enough to limit trials to (IIRC...) one week.  I believe Reviewers can still give a month...

Edited September 7, 2019 by cerberus1
addification

[+Mister Doctor 3]

1 hour ago, cerberus1 said:

The whole idea of free trials is thinking  that the person will see the benefits and  become PMs.    

During that time, you have access to "advanced" as well as premium member-only caches,  PQs,  notifications,  advanced searches,  lists,  full function on their apps,  and yeah, favorite points.

I don't believe many shell out 30 bucks to become PM for FPs,  but for the helpful "extras" to access caches.

 

Agreed. And after the trial I could see the benefits of all of that once they disappeared again. So it then it moved on to how best to afford membership.

 

If I were offering free trials as a business, the motivation of course would be to convert people to being paid members.

 

As it stands now this path isn’t clear. Rather than the trial educating a basic member so they can make a well-informed decision to become Premium, there is a disincentive to try it out because of the loss of FP benefits if you don’t then pay immediately.

 

If you’re not able to pay up straight away the message is that you’re better off waiting until you can and trying to figure out somehow whether it’s right for you on your own. I can imagine this taking longer, but in the end you end up paying the membership AND being awarded all the prorated FPs.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Mister Doctor
*FPs

[+31BMSG 202]

23 minutes ago, Mister Doctor said:

 

Agreed. And after the trial I could see the benefits of all of that once they disappeared again. So it then it moved on to how best to afford membership.

 

If I were offering free trials as a business, the motivation of course would be to convert people to being paid members.

 

As it stands now this path isn’t clear. Rather than the trial educating a basic member so they can make a well-informed decision to become Premium, there is a disincentive to try it out because of the loss of FP benefits if you don’t then pay immediately.

 

If you’re not able to pay up straight away the message is that you’re better off waiting until you can and trying to figure out somehow whether it’s right for you on your own. I can imagine this taking longer, but in the end you end up paying the membership AND being awarded all the prorated FOs.

There are times you have to take initiative and do some research on your own rather than standing by and waiting for someone to hand the answers to you. Before I paid for premium I researched everything I could, if it took you more than a week to discover the benefits you weren't putting much effort into it,  https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=132&pgid=175

[+CAVinoGal 634]

On 9/5/2019 at 8:02 PM, Mister Doctor said:

I am aware of the condition that states that if your paid membership lapses you do not earn FP in the interim. However, I had not ever been paying member. I was exploring a free trial, and a trial by definition leads either to taking up an offer or not. At that time I didn’t take up the offer and so a paid membership never lapsed.

Bolding mine.  You had not been a paying member, therefore you should not have had ANY favorite points, is one way to look at it.  But FP's are a benefit of premium to explore, so awarding of SOME FP's during the trial makes sense.  ALL that you would have earned as PM to that point seems a bit much for a free trial, with no guarantee you'll stay PM.

 

Perhaps the conditions of the free trial should be that you only earn Favorite points for the caches you find while the trial is in effect.  No retro points awarded, you only get what you earn during the trial.  

 

If you purchase (or are gifted) a full premium membership for a year, then you get the retro points the first time you go premium, and if that membership lapses, you don't earn FP's while a basic member.  Or simply forget "retro points" - you can only earn FP's while a premium member.  Even the first time, you simply start earning FP's when you become premium, and only earn points while you remain premium.  If it lapses, so does the accumulation of FP's.  Any points accumulated during the free trial could be counted.

 

As the rules are written, you have FP points for caches found as a basic member before the trial - 30 of them!  You chose, or were unable to accept the offer and continue as PM, and the accumulation stopped until your account went premium again.  You still kept the 30 FP's  given you by the free trial.  Awesome!  Once your account went premium again, you could then start accumulating more FP's; the ones found in between as a basic member will not get FP's awarded.

 

Personally, I find it hard to give away all the FP's I have.  We have a local challenge to show that you have awarded at least 50% of your available FP's and it took me awhile before I could find enough caches I felt deserved one of my FP's.  And I kept accumulating more FP's as I searched and found... 

[+kunarion 2549]

1 hour ago, CAVinoGal said:

FP's are a benefit of premium to explore, so awarding of SOME FP's during the trial makes sense.  ALL that you would have earned as PM to that point seems a bit much for a free trial, with no guarantee you'll stay PM.

 

+1

 

It's an automatic and curious system. You may try something that at first make sense to you and... whoops!... didn't expect that to happen. So the OP had a plan, a very particular situation that didn't work out. Sure, some issue could be changed.  Other people have been patiently waiting to see if their issue gets fixed. Get in line behind everyone else.

 

I don't know if I would have designed it all this way, nor if there could ever be a perfect way to run it.  But I guess on balance the FP system is fair to all. Or at least, it's equally annoying to all.

[+MartyBartfast 778]

I'm pretty sure this isn't being done to intentionally disadvantage people in your position, it may be just a side effect of using the existing code without needing to make any changes to cater for this edge case, the code goes something like this:

if (user has never been PM before) then give them all FPs for all previous finds ; else don't give them FPs for all previous finds.

 

They would have to write in code to check whether you had previously been PM but only on a free trial basis, and also check that you had never also had a paid membership. As your situation is most likely a rare edge case then it's not worth the manpower, and additional complexity in the code to facilitate this.

 

 

It's likely that nobody thought about this scenario when they implemented FPs and trial memberships, and having had it brought to their attention now they're probably going to fall back on the reasoning above.

 

 

7 hours ago, Mister Doctor said:

If I were offering free trials as a business, the motivation of course would be to convert people to being paid members. 

You're right, but consider it like one of those "only available today" offers. You get a free trial, if you sign up to PM immediately then you get all your FPs, the longer you take to make up your mind the more FPs you lose out on. They want to convert you and the quicker they can do so the better (for them).

Edited September 7, 2019 by MartyBartfast

[+JL_HSTRE 531]

While it's never really been relevant to me (my membership has only ever lapsed briefly during offseason inactivity), this seems like an odd system. Why have everyone accumulate FPs based on lifetime finds, with only PMs able to award them?

 

Does Groundspeak think anyone would try to game the system by only buying a month of Premium every year or so to award Favorites?

 

Couldn't someone get around the current limitation by deleting a log found while a Basic member then relogging the Find while Premium?

 

As an incentive, award a bonus FP each time someone buys Premium?

 

[+niraD 3172]

2 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Couldn't someone get around the current limitation by deleting a log found while a Basic member then relogging the Find while Premium?

Actually, they couldn't. The first Find log grants 1/10 of a FP (if you're a premium member). If you delete that log and log another Find log, then that log does NOT grant 1/10 of a FP.

[+bflentje 413]

On 9/6/2019 at 2:04 AM, Max and 99 said:

Groundspeak is missing out. Just think of the money they could make selling extra favorite points to those who want more. 😃😁

 

Two OT posts in one thread...

[+bflentje 413]

On 9/6/2019 at 5:29 PM, Mister Doctor said:

It’s also clear you can only get a single free trial, so this situation is quite specific to the gap between a trial and paid membership.

 

 

The vast majority of us didn't receive a free trial.