Setting a trail question.

[+Sokmonsta]

When setting a trail is the done thing to submit them all at the same time?

 

I’m planning a trail but there’s a prolific ftf chaser whose name is on pretty much every one friends and I have ever found as a ftf. We’d settle for just one! 

 

Anyway, in order to somewhat limit the chances of this chaser buzzing round at speed on my lovely 4 mile walk, I was wondering whether I could submit the caches in smaller groups of 2-3 and whether that would offer another cacher a fighting chance. Short of simply submitting the cache but not actually hiding it until a DNF pops up! (Which I wouldn’t do as its not the done thing but tbh would be tempting). 

 

Or do I just accept that for this person, quantity rather than quality is the aim of the game for them. 

[+cerberus1]

Does it matter ?  

I'd guess if you're leaving prizes in every cache on your "trail"  it might...

[+cerberus1]

23 minutes ago, Sokmonsta said:

Or do I just accept that for this person, quantity rather than quality is the aim of the game for them.  

 

Curious, are you saying that the "quality" of your caches will change if someone finds them in-a-row,  and in one shot?  

 

If me, I'd ask my local Reviewer how they'd like me to do it.    

Someone who likes to play the FTF side-game not really a consideration...

[+kunarion]

23 minutes ago, Sokmonsta said:

When setting a trail is the done thing to submit them all at the same time?

 

I’m planning a trail but there’s a prolific ftf chaser whose name is on pretty much every one friends and I have ever found as a ftf. We’d settle for just one! 

 

Anyway, in order to somewhat limit the chances of this chaser buzzing round at speed on my lovely 4 mile walk, I was wondering whether I could submit the caches in smaller groups of 2-3 and whether that would offer another cacher a fighting chance. Short of simply submitting the cache but not actually hiding it until a DNF pops up! (Which I wouldn’t do as its not the done thing but tbh would be tempting). 

 

Or do I just accept that for this person, quantity rather than quality is the aim of the game for them. 

 

If they’re all the same in a line, it may not take long for someone to connect the dots.

 

I never placed a power trail, but I placed mine one at a time to foil FTF hounds.  Wait.  I mean, to ensure each cache was working great before placing the next.  Not to foil anybody.  Nope.  

[+cerberus1]

6 minutes ago, kunarion said:

I never placed a power trail, but I placed mine one at a time to foil FTF hounds.  Wait.  I mean, to ensure each cache was working great before placing the next.  Not to foil anybody.  Nope.  

 

Someone told us similar at an event once.   Thought they were busting the other 2/3rds chops.  

 I don't get it...  It seems like it's just more effort to solve a non-issue.  

If they really are a "FTF hound", they'll hit each cache singly as well as one long line.    Nature of the beast...  

[+niraD]

17 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Someone told us similar at an event once.   Thought they were busting the other 2/3rds chops.  

 I don't get it...  It seems like it's just more effort to solve a non-issue.  

I think it's silly if the only point is to foil the dreaded FTF hounds.

 

But if the exercise helps the CO view each cache as its own entity, as something worthy of attention on its own, rather than as merely another link in the chain that forms the trail, then it could be useful.

[+cerberus1]

9 minutes ago, niraD said:

I think it's silly if the only point is to foil the dreaded FTF hounds.

But if the exercise helps the CO view each cache as its own entity, as something worthy of attention on its own, rather than as merely another link in the chain that forms the trail, then it could be useful.

 

Agreed, if only for some "peace of mind" thing for the CO.   

The "quality" of their cache won't change,  whether someone does one, or all at once.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Hee hee hee.  My brother-in-law challenged me to set out a GeoArt series.  Took me seven months to get them set.  Mostly along a very nice walkway along the river.  I had them submitted and published as the were set out.  Over seven months.  They were in no order.  Hee hee hee.  

[+colleda]

2 hours ago, Sokmonsta said:

When setting a trail is the done thing to submit them all at the same time?

 

I’m planning a trail but there’s a prolific ftf chaser whose name is on pretty much every one friends and I have ever found as a ftf. We’d settle for just one! 

 

Anyway, in order to somewhat limit the chances of this chaser buzzing round at speed on my lovely 4 mile walk, I was wondering whether I could submit the caches in smaller groups of 2-3 and whether that would offer another cacher a fighting chance. Short of simply submitting the cache but not actually hiding it until a DNF pops up! (Which I wouldn’t do as its not the done thing but tbh would be tempting). 

 

Or do I just accept that for this person, quantity rather than quality is the aim of the game for them. 

Forgetting about the FTF hounds for a moment.

You don''t have to submit trail caches in one go. You can, if you like, hit the submit button for one or as many as you like over a number of days - or weeks. Or you can submit them all at once with a note to the reviewer to release them progressively remembering that the reviewer is under no obligation to do so but, I guess, most reviewers will assist if they can. Do NOT submit any caches without them being in place. If you do, it could upset other cachers besides the FTF hound and, possibly, get yourself a bad name among local cachers for trying to micro manage who finds your caches.

 

[+Touchstone]

If it were me, I'd space the Publication times out.  Maybe two a year or so.

[+Max and 99]

4 hours ago, Sokmonsta said:

Short of simply submitting the cache but not actually hiding it until a DNF pops up! (Which I wouldn’t do as its not the done thing but tbh would be tempting). 

Don't even think about it. My kids and I made two trips to find a cache only to be told later by the CO that they hadn't placed it yet. No apology either. 

What if one of your friends tries to get FTF and the cache isn't there? 

 

4 hours ago, Sokmonsta said:

Or do I just accept that for this person, quantity rather than quality is the aim of the game for them

That's an unfair assumption.

[+Sokmonsta]

Cerberus, you make a good point. No. The quality would not change. I guess my view on the game is just different to this persons. 

 

I suspect I have to ignore my feelings on this hound and accept that everyone has their own objective for playing the game. For this person it really might be the thrill of the chase (and don’t worry, I wouldn’t cheat for friends either and let them claim as I lay a cache. If they’re going to find it properly). That’s how they get their enjoyment. 

 

My preference is a nice walk with points of interest, interesting caches and getting the kids outside. 

 

Max - I absolutely would not submit without laying a cache. It’s disappointing enough when you don’t find a cache which should be there according to other logs. I want people to enjoy themselves.

 

i suspect my answer is to submit every other one and hope someone else does get a chance at the elusive ftf. 

 

And as as I do like to put a small ftf prize in, maybe do an ‘X to find’ type prize as well. I’m a crafter so easy enough to create something and they’re all very local to me to ensure they can be well maintained. Also nothing worse than a CO who wants to hide  but then doesn’t do efficient maintenance! 

[+Goldenwattle]

How will not publishing all the trail at once stop a keen FTFer? The ones I know will go out each and every time. Won't stop them.

[+arisoft]

8 hours ago, Sokmonsta said:

Anyway, in order to somewhat limit the chances of this chaser buzzing round at speed on my lovely 4 mile walk, I was wondering whether I could submit the caches in smaller groups of 2-3 and whether that would offer another cacher a fighting chance. Short of simply submitting the cache but not actually hiding it until a DNF pops up! (Which I wouldn’t do as its not the done thing but tbh would be tempting). 

 

I think you have no changes in either way and publishing non existent caches may be your last cache ever.

 

It is possible to time publications so that caches will appear in a random like order. Your reviewer may tell you more about this feature.

 

 

[+cerberus1]

5 hours ago, Sokmonsta said:

i suspect my answer is to submit every other one and hope someone else does get a chance at the elusive ftf.

And as as I do like to put a small ftf prize in, maybe do an ‘X to find’ type prize as well. I’m a crafter so easy enough to create something and they’re all very local to me to ensure they can be well maintained.

 

The other 2/3rds was a FTF monster at one time.  She'd meet others at night in her PJs , most of them in PJs too.  Crazy.   

She finally burned out, tired of "beta-testing" for new folks.  Her last cache found was 400 feet off...

 

One here puts dollar lottery tickets in their caches, three for FTF, two for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd.   

Two of three now-regular FTFers don't even mention their "prize", but have a separate paragraph in the log of their stats.  

A new couple put out caches I enjoy (distance in varied terrain), and each one had a FTF prize.

Because it had distance, and most hunt for C&Ds, I was FTF on all days after published.

I felt guilty, their prizes more than I felt should be there, and left the rest after the first two.  We've seen others do the same.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by cerberus1
addification

[+barefootjeff]

26 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

A new couple put out caches I enjoy (distance in varied terrain), and each one had a FTF prize.

Because it had distance, and most hunt for C&Ds, I was FTF on all days after published.

I felt guilty, their prizes more than I felt should be there, and left the rest after the first two.  We've seen others do the same.

 

About eighteen months ago, a local cacher put out a series of four puzzles and a multi with a common theme. On all but one I got FTF and on each of those, 2TF was at least another month behind (in one case it was 3 months). There were no prizes but he'd left themed TBs for the FTF to move along, which I did. I started to feel a bit guilty after the first couple but no-one else appeared interested.

[+cerberus1]

4 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

There were no prizes but he'd left themed TBs for the FTF to move along, which I did. I started to feel a bit guilty after the first couple but no-one else appeared interested.

 

 I would have left them there.   So now as a "reward", you're expected to move a trackable along for them.  Big deal...     

We've seen some do that.  Not sure why, since we find trackables "to move along" in any other hides... 

We've left unactivated TBs and geocoins as FTF prizes though.  I now place them in caches as swag sometimes too.

 

 

[+cerberus1]

Guess I don't understand why some have ill feelings for FTFers... 

I liked them simply because that's the only way to see the cache as presented by the CO.  

 

The other 2/3rds burned out because of it, and I lost interest much earlier. 

When an easy quarter of new caches headed to are many to hundreds of feet away, miles away ,  or not there at all (" I thought I had to get it approved first..."),  FTF isn't always as fun as some think.

I found a cache FTF that was a couple miles away from home once, but listed 200 miles away, in the other half of the state (archived the same day).

Everything gets sorta fixed by the time you get there.    

[+coman123]

I put a 2nd to find prize in my caches every once in a while.

[+colleda]

5 hours ago, coman123 said:

I put a 2nd to find prize in my caches every once in a while.

I have done that with a new series soon to be published. It's a series of 12 that does a loop which would take 2 - 3 hours along scenic coastal l walking tracks. I have placed a FTF prize in the cache furthest away from the start and a 2TF prize in the cache second furthest away. I've not mentioned the prizes in the descriptions so it will be a surprise (except now to a couple of local cachers who visit this forum).

[+palmetto]

In reviewer mode, I suggest you submit as soon as you've got coords. You can request scattered publication, or once the location is cleared, disable and wait, days or months  to submit again.

 

The common error with trails is  your own cache  too close to another of your own caches. I see this over and over and over. The CSP will NOT warn you that your unpublished cache A is only 156m from your unpublished cache B (minimum is 161m). It warns  about the distance to posted coords of published Traditional caches and Multi-caches with posted coords as physical.  Nothing else. Not Challenge caches (Mystery type) that are at posted coords.  Just those 2 things, and not your own other unpublished caches.

[+usyoopers]

I guess I really don't want to go out for a 4 mile walk for a cache find one day only to have another published on the same trail 2 days later and then maybe another 2 more days later. At least let me know how many are going to be placed, I'll wait until they are all out there to make the find. Does being FTF really matter?? If so, don't leave anything high value as a FTF prize, you are kinda creating your own problem if you do that, IMHO.

[+niraD]

43 minutes ago, usyoopers said:

I guess I really don't want to go out for a 4 mile walk for a cache find one day only to have another published on the same trail 2 days later and then maybe another 2 more days later.

I'm the exact opposite. I've gone for 4+ mile hikes, found a single cache, and saved the rest for a future visit to the park when I'll find another single cache after another 4+ mile hike.

[+Camroo]

7 minutes ago, niraD said:

I'm the exact opposite. I've gone for 4+ mile hikes, found a single cache, and saved the rest for a future visit to the park when I'll find another single cache after another 4+ mile hike.

im really bad for doing that... then never getting around to doing it, and then the caches get archived lol

[+captnemo]

I put out a series of caches (not really a power trail as they are .5  a mile apart)and asked the reviewer to release them after 1pm on the same day as a geocaching event at a local restaurant.  At the event I announced the existence of series which made the eyes of our local FTF hounds light up.  After the event, of they when to get these new FTFs.  The weather was terrible, rain and wind, for the desert so they really had a challenge ahead of them.  

 

They got to the first cache, around 11pm,  only to find that another local cacher's signature on the FTF line!  Seems that this other cacher had been hanging around their house because of the rain and spotted this series pop up so off they went.  They got to the caches before the rain but didn't log them until after the geocaching event, which they didn't attend, had started.  Another fun thing was that I had made a mistake on the coordinates on one of the caches,  They figured out my typo and found the cache anyway.  Oh yeh, the FTF hounds gave up after a couple of the caches as the weather and trail were terrible and came back latter to find them.

[+frostengel]

On 8/28/2019 at 1:06 AM, Sokmonsta said:

I’m planning a trail but there’s a prolific ftf chaser whose name is on pretty much every one friends and I have ever found as a ftf. We’d settle for just one!

 

He can't do the FTFs if he is on vacation. So perhaps you can read his logs and if you see that he logged caches far away it is time for the publish.... But be sure to ask your reviewer first because if it takes to much time before publish he might be back.... ;-)

 

It's simple stalking. :-D

[+kunarion]

Just now, frostengel said:

 

He can't do the FTFs if he is on vacation. So perhaps you can read his logs and if you see that he logged caches far away it is time for the publish.... But be sure to ask your reviewer first because if it takes to much time before publish he might be back.... ;-)

 

It's simple stalking. :-D

 

I could publish caches when the main FTF hounds are at a far away Event.  I'd never do that.  OK, once.  OK, more than once.

 

I also never submit a cache just as a big storm approaches.  OK, once.

[+Sokmonsta]

Ha ha. I have loved the replies to this and resolved my own grumps about it.

 

I figure if that’s how they want to play the game, then why should whether I play it differently matter. Neither one of us is breaking rules. 

 

So geokids and I are having fun plotting our caches and designing them. We hope fellow cacher’s appreciate the work and the walk and anything else is down to their gameplay. 

 

We’ve found some cute smiley face badges in our local scrap store for loot and have decided not to leave anything as a specific ftf prize. Again leaving it to cacher’s to choose whether to swap loot or not. 

[+Mudfrog]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 6:47 PM, cerberus1 said:

 

Someone told us similar at an event once.   Thought they were busting the other 2/3rds chops.  

 I don't get it...  It seems like it's just more effort to solve a non-issue.  

If they really are a "FTF hound", they'll hit each cache singly as well as one long line.    Nature of the beast...  

 

This above! Published at different times or all at once probably ain't gonna make much difference. Honestly, an attempt to try and foil a regular FTFer seems a bit silly to me. Cachers who want a FTF sometimes need to up their game to get it.

 

I used to play it and believe me, I had to be ready and fast if I wanted to be first. We used to have some good friendly, no drama competition in our area back in the day. Making it to ground zero first was a challenge and a big part of the fun. Thankfully, no one (as far as I know) purposely slowed up their game to make it easy for us or others.  

[+colleda]

For my recent series of 12 I submitted in two lots of six about 3 or 4 days apart. I left it up to the reviewer to decide when to publish. They were published all published together. And no FTF hounds.

[+BethDaddyKaty]

As an opposing view, I would love a FTF... but as a cache owner do you not get a certain thrill out of your FTFs, and part of that is how quick they are? I mean, in the end all of us could be prepared to drop everything to run out and find GCs as soon as they are published, personally I prefer the more sedate pace and being able to find GCs on impulse rather than the FTF rush.

 

My reviewer released 22 of my caches this morning. Three hours later I went on a walk to review them and I have to say... it was BRILLIANT! Because you get the emails in real time you can literally see who is searching for your caches and get instant feedback. You're not going to get that releasing one or two at a time.

 

So I would say, it's great you're trying to be fair. However, it takes a lot of work to build a trail, so why not enjoy the excitement on the first day as a CO? There is something very enjoyable about watching other people hunting frantically for your caches without needing to identify yourself, which you would need to if you were camped out at one cache. And you have to think about your enjoyment as well as a CO, perhaps more than being "fair", and surely the enjoyment comes from knowing other people are finding your caches?

 

Having done it once, reviewer permitting, I would ALWAYS release my caches together, on the proviso I can be there to watch the FTF frenzy.

 

FWIW I helpful FTF cacher tried to give me clues about how to find a cache. By "clues", I meant just tell me where it was, that is how FTFs work, the fun is in finding it instantly, not having to search. I had to reveal I was the CO and knew perfectly well where it was. But I still enjoyed someone trying to tell me where my own cache was

Edited September 18, 2019 by daddybeth

[+colleda]

When my series was published I realised I had not put an FTF prize in #1 but by the time I got to the start the FTFer had DNF'd #2. So I headed to #3 and found he had not yet got there so I placed the prize in the container and went back to the trail. I didn't know where the FTFer was so I assumed he had just done searched for the  #1 and #2 and left. As he had DNF'd #2 I quickly went and checked it and all was ok. After that I spotted the FTFer on the trail on his way to #3 so I followed. Then waited 'till he found it then made myself known to him. He was pleased with the FTF prize which he was going to give to his wife. It was a mother of pearl pendant my late wife had bought on our last cruise.

After that I accompanied my new geocaching friend around the rest of the series. No rush of FTFers that day, just him and it took about 2 hours to do the series.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

6 hours ago, colleda said:

When my series was published I realised I had not put an FTF prize in #1 but by the time I got to the start the FTFer had DNF'd #2. So I headed to #3 and found he had not yet got there so I placed the prize in the container and went back to the trail. I didn't know where the FTFer was so I assumed he had just done searched for the  #1 and #2 and left. As he had DNF'd #2 I quickly went and checked it and all was ok. After that I spotted the FTFer on the trail on his way to #3 so I followed. Then waited 'till he found it then made myself known to him. He was pleased with the FTF prize which he was going to give to his wife. It was a mother of pearl pendant my late wife had bought on our last cruise.

After that I accompanied my new geocaching friend around the rest of the series. No rush of FTFers that day, just him and it took about 2 hours to do the series.

 

I....have no words for this.

I guess we roll a different flavor of the game around here.

[+colleda]

7 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

 

I....have no words for this.

I guess we roll a different flavor of the game around here.

My wife purchased quite a few inexpensive pieces for gifts but did not have the opportunity to pass them all on before she passed on. We have no daughters, no grand children etc.   I think she would be happy that they could bring pleasure to a random stranger playing a game that she loved.

[+lee737]

I've done that, not with power trails, but with submissions - if we hide a couple, we'll hit the submit button on the second one once the FTF log for the first appears.... just sharing the love.....

 

[+colleda]

1 hour ago, lee737 said:

I've done that, not with power trails, but with submissions - if we hide a couple, we'll hit the submit button on the second one once the FTF log for the first appears.... just sharing the love.....

 

Hmmmm. I never thought of that. May have to keep it in mind if I ever do another series.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

On 9/20/2019 at 8:13 PM, colleda said:

My wife purchased quite a few inexpensive pieces for gifts but did not have the opportunity to pass them all on before she passed on. We have no daughters, no grand children etc.   I think she would be happy that they could bring pleasure to a random stranger playing a game that she loved.

 

 

Admiration coming your way for this!