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Gary&Vicky

Power trails in the suburbs are bad for “Geocaching”.

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Posted (edited)

I feel like an old man shouting “stay off my lawn”.  That’s how I feel when I get another email notification announcing that a specific geocacher (name withheld) has added to his never ending power trail(s).  Within my 10 mile notification circle, I believe there are well over 500 caches placed by this cache owner.  For months, 9 out of 10 email notifications received have been power trail related. 

 

If these were imaginative geocaches that put a smile on your face or take you to a cool location, I would not say anything.  They are not.  I know, I am free not to looks for these caches.  For the record, we worked one of the early trails deployed by this cache owner.   But there is a negative impact to the quality of our geocaching.  We have to wade through the long lists of geocaches placed by this cache owner before we see a cache placed by any other geocacher.   If we have an idea for clever new cache,   Unique placement locations are  squandered by thoughtless power trails.  New geocachers may find these power trails fun for a while, since the prize is so easy to find.  But when new geocachers go to place their first geocache, they have these lousy caches as role models.  I used to say that new geocachers should find 25 to 50 caches before they hide their first cache.  Thanks to these local power trails in the suburbs, a new geocacher may never see a geocache with multiple favorite points before they abandon this new hobby. 

 

In a past life, we were “all about the numbers”.  We chased down every cache we could.  Hitting a couple power trails out in the desert was particularly fun and number producing.  Now a days, we search for the few new caches placed in the neighborhood and when we travel. These power trails are encroaching on my neighborhood....not happy about it. 

 

Can be be stopped?  Should it be?  

 

Rant, over.  

 

Your thoughts.

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Edited by Keystone
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Have you talked to the CO about it? It seems like that would be more productive than coming here to complain. I'm not criticizing you: it's fine to come here to vent about something like this. But the problem you're having is strictly a local one, so think about how to solve it within the community. (I'm a little sensitive about this because every time someone complains about something some individual CO is doing, GS tends to make rules that get in everyone's way even in places where COs don't do annoying things like that.)

 

I think it's really interesting that you are fully aware from your personal history why people like power trails, so that should put you in a good position to understand and interact with the CO as friends even as you talk over the problems his caches are causing you as a reformed ex-numbers cacher. In particular, I think you're in a good position to point out that while numbers are fun, it's even more fun if the numbers caches are interesting in their own right.

 

Although nothing as bad as this has happened in my area, there have been a few series with the caches put out fairly densely along country roads, so I have gotten a taste of the problem of a hundred notifications, all for the same series. For some reason, though, the COs around here put some thought into it, so the caches themselves are reasonably good. Admittedly, they're all not super creative -- although some are -- but they are generally unique. Maybe getting the CO thinking along those lines will be enough to sort out your problem.

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I have the same problem north of me in the west Texas oilfields, that's why the CO and all 503 of his caches are on my ignore list. As long as the reviewer approves these and they are in decent shape I don't see any options other than ignoring them. Because of the few caches I've found that were placed by this CO I've learned to delete anything that resembles a power trail from my caching list.

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Posted (edited)

I can see the point the OP has made. Yes, PTs are not everyone's cup of tea, and has been discussed here many times, but the impression made on new cachers can be very negative and a turn off for them to continue caching. Just think for a moment dprovan if you were just starting out in this game and your first experience is a trail of crappy film pots, pill bottles or medi tubes, one after the other ad nauseum.

"Maybe getting the CO thinking along those lines will be enough to sort out your problem."

This could be a starting point but I reckon it would be a tough job getting this particular CO to change their attitude. Perhaps a lot of protests/complaints from a lot of his peers may turn him around but most people really don't like to interfere on a personal level. I don't have an answer and I'm not sure there is one except for the ignore button but that doesn't help the noobs.

Edited by colleda
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We have someone in our area continually placing power trails too. I have grizzled here in the past about that. Over 1,000 caches now, although some of those are now archived. And they keep placing them. Most are very ordinary containers. I too find this annoying and wish there was a way to exclude all this person's caches from my bulk load. Needing to ignore hundreds of caches is not practical. If for some reason I wanted to go do a power trail, I could then load the number I wanted manually.

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Knowing a bit about the cache owner and their situation, I think it's best to just ignore them if it bothers you, and apply more filters to your searches to help weed them out (e.g. D/T combinations, and/or Attributes).  On the plus side, they appear to be a very active cache owner when it comes to maintenance.  I think that kind of behavior is to be applauded if not lauded these days.

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1 hour ago, Touchstone said:

On the plus side, they appear to be a very active cache owner when it comes to maintenance.

Yes sometimes, although I placed a NM and a month later a note to remind them about one broken cache with sodden log, and they finally placed an OM log to say that someone had reported leaving a new cache. It didn't sound like they did the maintenance. I hope the old cache was removed.

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3 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Yes sometimes, although I placed a NM and a month later a note to remind them about one broken cache with sodden log, and they finally placed an OM log to say that someone had reported leaving a new cache. It didn't sound like they did the maintenance. I hope the old cache was removed.

Just for clarification, I'm talking about a cache owner located in California referenced by the OP, which it doesn't appear  you've visited, judging from your Profile.

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6 hours ago, colleda said:

Just think for a moment dprovan if you were just starting out in this game and your first experience is a trail of crappy film pots, pill bottles or medi tubes, one after the other ad nauseum.

I have no idea why you think I don't understand the issue. I'm just pointing out that the solution is with the CO, not more rules forbidding whatever it is people complain about this week.

 

(By the way, the OP is complaining about a dense series of caches which we can see on the map, but I don't see any evidence that they're crappy film pots, pill bottles, or medi tubes. The description and hints sound like fairly common hides, not particularly great, but not thoughtless, either. And, in fact, carefully reading the OP reveals that the main complaint is that there are too many of them, and a secondary complaint is that they aren't special. Although his disdain is obvious, he doesn't actually say anything about them being junk, although perhaps he just left out that part. If make me wonder if we applied the OP's criteria, just about everywhere we'd have 90% fewer caches.)

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1 minute ago, dprovan said:

I have no idea why you think I don't understand the issue. I'm just pointing out that the solution is with the CO, not more rules forbidding whatever it is people complain about this week.

 

(By the way, the OP is complaining about a dense series of caches which we can see on the map, but I don't see any evidence that they're crappy film pots, pill bottles, or medi tubes. The description and hints sound like fairly common hides, not particularly great, but not thoughtless, either. And, in fact, carefully reading the OP reveals that the main complaint is that there are too many of them, and a secondary complaint is that they aren't special. Although his disdain is obvious, he doesn't actually say anything about them being junk, although perhaps he just left out that part. If make me wonder if we applied the OP's criteria, just about everywhere we'd have 90% fewer caches.)

OK. I stand corrected. It becomes a little too easy at times to tar all PTs with the same brush. (I wonder why).

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3 hours ago, Touchstone said:

Just for clarification, I'm talking about a cache owner located in California referenced by the OP, which it doesn't appear  you've visited, judging from your Profile.

It did follow my entry without a reference, so understandably I was confused.

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SO you asked for thoughts and here's mine as briefly as i can. I think one thing about the hobby i dig most is that there is no "correct" way to geocache. You just do what you like to do and leave out the things you dont. To each their own, But for me personally Im more quality over quantity, in both finding and hiding. i have come to enjoy being a co and creating experiences for cachers above the getting smileys . i wasnt able to find any thing still to this day with the type of experience to keep me excited and ready for the next find. I have had a few great moments but nothing like the feedback an responses i was receiving from the community and logs explaining their adventures and expressing there enjoyments of my hides. i believe the hobby is falling in to the wanting PNG's over the hikes or unique caches. everyone jus wants that quick smiley for your map and on to the next cause once its found ,You pretty much never find same one again and defiantly dont get 2 smileys even if you did. id rather go get one geocache that was unique container,beautiful place, learn something new, feel that sense of true accomplishment (considering you dont actually win get or reward with anything ,its all virtual or accolades from the community anyways)then go find 100 caches on a PT,especially the power trails where more than 1/2 are questionable at best with no parking ,home owners watching you be out of place, and onlookers of everyone thinking we some crazy and steer the non cachers away from at least knowing the great , priceless ,endless aspects  that this awesome hobby does have to offer ....      side note if u want to see some original one of a kind hides and caches ,including gadget cache and few other cool series check my geocaches out under my profile after all i am the KingoftheHide JCACHE

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11 hours ago, dprovan said:

Have you talked to the CO about it? It seems like that would be more productive than coming here to complain. I'm not criticizing you: it's fine to come here to vent about something like this. But the problem you're having is strictly a local one,

 

Are you serious?  This is not just a local problem.   It's a problem that affects local communities all over the world.  Maybe you don't see it be you apparently live in a geocaching utopia where all the caches are high quality, well maintained, with containers that never leak, and pens never run out of ink.  

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Never heard the term Power Trail before. What does it refer to specifically?

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Unanswered questions:  
Do you really mean *only* in the suburbs, as stated in the title?  So power trails in the desert - or some place far from your home zone - are ok?  

Do you have plans to place caches in your 10-mile zone that new cachers can hunt and learn from (i.e., non-PMO caches)?  If so, have you communicated the plans with the "perpetrator"?  Have you already placed non-PMO caches which are shining examples from which these newbies can learn?  

Are there parts of the PTs that are showing a poor example, other than simply being a PT?

Can/should '...something be done?': By *whom*?

Are you thinking of something along the lines of allowing would-be COs to "stake a claim" to a certain area around them?  Or delineating "PT-free/Newbie-only zones"?

Not knowing the answers to those questions, nevertheless I sally forth.
----
Yes, it does sound quite a bit like "... an old man shouting 'stay off my lawn'."

 

From the OP, I interpret that in your geocaching youth, you enjoyed an activity that, now that you're older [and wiser? not traveling as much?], you no longer enjoy ... and expect others - all others - to follow suit.  Frankly, I read the rest of the OP as *justifications* for your stance. Whether they are true or not in *your* community, I can't know.

 

One problem, old man :D , is that it is not *your* lawn to forbid others to invade.  Your lawn is, in reality, community property.  

 

Do I think "something can/should be done"?  Well, I don't think you'd have started this thread if you didn't think something SHOULD be done ... rather rhetorical, there. Again, the salient question is, WHO should be doing something?  To that, I will offer requested opinion.

 

As dprovan reasonably suggests, open communication with your community members - or particular member whose behavior you wish to alter - can be an effective method of achieving what you want. So, can be done? You betchya ... by you.

 

If it bothers you enough, then yes, you should communicate your feelings with your community member(s).  (And be prepared to be met with the fact that you may be in the minority in your community.) Whether you do this by personal and amicable messages directly to one member or - possibly even more effective for your cause - planning and hosting a "Building and Placing Awesome Caches/The Impact of Cache Placement to the Community" event.  Market it; advertise it in your community.  Target your marketing of the event to those you wish to share your wisdom/influence.  With work on your part, sure, it CAN be done.

 

Do I think "something should be done" by HQ?  Recommendations have been issued via blog, etc., but should they take it further, creating a rule or enforced guideline?  *No*.  I am firmly in the "Rules Must Benefit/Address Problems for the GLOBAL Community" camp.  While some - even many - may find PTs irksome for any number of reasons, unless they are improperly maintained or otherwise don't meet guidelines, there is nothing that should be addressed on a global level.

 

FWIW: I am not a PT advocate and have never done one.  No, I take that back.  I did do "The World's Shortest Power Trail" 1 & 2:  2 caches, each at opposite ends of a 0.1-mile-long guardrail.  HA!

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3 minutes ago, VAVAPAM said:

I did do "The World's Shortest Power Trail" 1 & 2:  2 caches, each at opposite ends of a 0.1-mile-long guardrail.  HA!

😂

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1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Are you serious?  This is not just a local problem.   It's a problem that affects local communities all over the world.  Maybe you don't see it be you apparently live in a geocaching utopia where all the caches are high quality, well maintained, with containers that never leak, and pens never run out of ink.  

 

straw_agriculture_bale_field-1347898.jpg!d.jpg

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1 minute ago, VAVAPAM said:

 

straw_agriculture_bale_field-1347898.jpg!d.jpg

 

Hey VAVAPAM (see what I did there?), I don't know what you're trying to say.  Is the field of hay bales a metaphor for what it's like to find a power trail of caches that are exactly alike?  

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3 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Hey VAVAPAM (see what I did there?), I don't know what you're trying to say.  Is the field of hay bales a metaphor for what it's like to find a power trail of caches that are exactly alike?  

:P

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23 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

Never heard the term Power Trail before. What does it refer to specifically?

 

In your area I see 3 near the Lost geoart. 

 

 

1125849799_ScreenShot2019-08-13at8_42_30AM.thumb.png.0c5199967a6ec6cdc9707621623b1512.png

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A community that doesn't have problems with PTs =

"all the caches are high quality, well maintained, with containers that never leak, and pens never run out of ink."

 

I only use pencils, so I couldn't possibly know whether that statement is true or not.  :D 

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47 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

 

In your area I see 3 near the Lost geoart. 

 

 

1125849799_ScreenShot2019-08-13at8_42_30AM.thumb.png.0c5199967a6ec6cdc9707621623b1512.png

I'd be surprised if that Lost geoart wasn't a power trail too after the puzzles were solved.  

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one of my favorite quotes

"When you go to hide a geocache, think of the reason you are bringing people to that spot. If the only reason is for the geocache, then find a better spot."

briansnat, Charter Member

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16 hours ago, Gary&Vicky said:

Thanks to these local power trails in the suburbs, a new geocacher may never see a geocache with multiple favorite points before they abandon this new hobby. 

Well at least they'll give you more fav points for the better caches!

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3 hours ago, Touchstone said:
4 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

Never heard the term Power Trail before. What does it refer to specifically?

Link for reference:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/about/glossary.aspx

To expand on that definition a bit...

 

The term "power trail" is sometimes used to refer to strings of many, many identical containers hidden identically, spaced every 528ft/161m along a rural road. The intent is for finders to pull over, find the cache almost instantly, and be on their way to the next cache moments later. I tend to refer to these as "numbers trails", since their only purpose is increasing one's find count. One cache in the trail is pretty much identical to any other cache in the trail, and this is often exploited by teams that use techniques like the three cache monte, where they save time by swapping each container with a container holding a pre-signed log; while driving to the next cache, someone in the vehicle will sign the swapped log, and later that one will be swapped for some other container, ad nauseum.

 

Before this type of trail was allowed, there were still trails called "power trails". They too had "a large number of caches placed within close proximity to each other", but they evolved naturally as popular trails became saturated. However, these caches would generally be different from each other, and would often be created by different cache owners. One such power trail is used by a local county parks department for its introduction to geocaching classes. New geocachers can find an assortment of 8-10 varied caches, and be back at the trailhead by lunchtime.

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I found the subject of this thread interesting, "Power trails in the suburbs are bad for Geocaching". Upon reading, the thread didn't go in the direction that I expected based on the subject.

 

For the most part, I don't object to power trails. (I do wish that there was an easy way to ignore them.) But, most power trails are on some long stretch of highway. But these are a high density of caches in a suburban setting. Most of the caches are located on arterial roads. So, where does one park? Stop (blocking the bike lane), jump out, search in the bushes, then jump in the car and do it again in a quarter of a mile? Seems like these caches are designed to get one stopped and questioned by the police. 

 

We know that there are cachers that will park without regard for anyone else in their quest to find a geocache. To me, that is how suburban power trails are bad for Geocaching. Neighbors reporting strangers doing strange things in the bushes, cops stopping to investigate illegally parked cars, etc., are all things that can give geocaching a bad name. What can be done to alleviate this? Asking the CO to add parking coordinates, and maybe suggesting the best way to approach their cache might help. Yes, not everyone looks at cache descriptions, but some of us still do. For this specific set of caches, the best way would be to ride a bike. Maybe suggest that in the cache description. Heck, link the cache descriptions to a bookmark list that lists the caches in order for a bike trip, with parking at a local park. IMO, doing this shows that the hider is trying to make the experience a good one for the cacher.

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3 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

I'd be surprised if that Lost geoart wasn't a power trail too after the puzzles were solved.  

Where is that , I don't recognize any place names?

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18 hours ago, Gary&Vicky said:

I feel like an old man shouting “stay off my lawn”.  That’s how I feel when I get another email notification announcing that a specific geocacher (name withheld) has added to his never ending power trail(s).  Within my 10 mile notification circle, I believe there are well over 500 caches placed by this cache owner.  For months, 9 out of 10 email notifications received have been power trail related. 

 

If these were imaginative geocaches that put a smile on your face or take you to a cool location, I would not say anything.  They are not.  I know, I am free not to looks for these caches.  For the record, we worked one of the early trails deployed by this cache owner.   But there is a negative impact to the quality of our geocaching.  We have to wade through the long lists of geocaches placed by this cache owner before we see a cache placed by any other geocacher.   If we have an idea for clever new cache,   Unique placement locations are  squandered by thoughtless power trails.  New geocachers may find these power trails fun for a while, since the prize is so easy to find.  But when new geocachers go to place their first geocache, they have these lousy caches as role models.  I used to say that new geocachers should find 25 to 50 caches before they hide their first cache.  Thanks to these local power trails in the suburbs, a new geocacher may never see a geocache with multiple favorite points before they abandon this new hobby. 

 

In a past life, we were “all about the numbers”.  We chased down every cache we could.  Hitting a couple power trails out in the desert was particularly fun and number producing.  Now a days, we search for the few new caches placed in the neighborhood and when we travel. These power trails are encroaching on my neighborhood....not happy about it. 

Can be be stopped?  Should it be?  

Rant, over.  

Preaching to the choir, I give it a 4.5.  :laughing:

Many notifications we see lately are low D/T , placed nowhere-special hides, or events.  It's ice cream time now, no need for potluck to socialize either...

You say "placed because we can" caches are a negative on your geocaching.   This hobby isn't only about you.  :)

There are now one heck-of-a-lotta folks who play this as a game, and those people enjoy the fact they can "rackin' up points" like Roger Daltrey in "Tommy".  

 - But that's often fixed by simply walking a bit further than others.  We still think of this as a hobby...

Most our unique placement areas are still there,  It's just that there's now a gazillion "placed on the way to..." pill bottles leading the way.

I skip them... 

Took a while, but at least locally most now know that the reason their film can hide was there was because they went to that special one at the end too. 

 - Now they shut up about it, knowing I'm fine with public speaking  (at events).  :D

Guess I don't understand...a power trail in the desert at one time was "fun and number-producing", but now that you want to stay within your own area,  it's not ?

I guess NIMBY* maybe can be applied here.   ;) 

 

*A person who objects to the siting of something perceived as unpleasant or potentially dangerous in their own neighborhood, such as a landfill or hazardous waste facility, especially while raising no such objections to similar developments elsewhere.

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15 minutes ago, niraD said:

To expand on that definition a bit...

 

The term "power trail" is sometimes used to refer to strings of many, many identical containers hidden identically, spaced every 528ft/161m along a rural road. The intent is for finders to pull over, find the cache almost instantly, and be on their way to the next cache moments later. I tend to refer to these as "numbers trails", since their only purpose is increasing one's find count. One cache in the trail is pretty much identical to any other cache in the trail, and this is often exploited by teams that use techniques like the three cache monte, where they save time by swapping each container with a container holding a pre-signed log; while driving to the next cache, someone in the vehicle will sign the swapped log, and later that one will be swapped for some other container, ad nauseum.

 

Before this type of trail was allowed, there were still trails called "power trails". They too had "a large number of caches placed within close proximity to each other", but they evolved naturally as popular trails became saturated. However, these caches would generally be different from each other, and would often be created by different cache owners. One such power trail is used by a local county parks department for its introduction to geocaching classes. New geocachers can find an assortment of 8-10 varied caches, and be back at the trailhead by lunchtime.

Must be before my time. I've only ever heard the first example called "a power trail", imply both the hiding and the finding require the minimum effort. The second kind is called "a series" if they're related to each other, or else "lots of caches" if they're independent caches strung along the same trail.

 

The series in question -- there's one in the OP's picture that I looked at, but there are more nearby, so I'm not sure the ones I looked at are then entire problem the OP is discussing -- is right between the two, apparently intended to provide lots of close caches that are easy to pick up, but each having its own name and different hints and, sometimes, slightly different descriptions. From what I can tell, the containers are suitable to the spot where the cache is hidden. I think it would probably be each person's personal decision whether to call them a power trail. But, having said that, the OP is specific about the problems it causes him, so I don't think we have to worry about what to call them. Although we do have to worry about the OP's specific complaints turning into a jihad against anything anyone anywhere decides to call a power trail.

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3 hours ago, p0cy said:

one of my favorite quotes

"When you go to hide a geocache, think of the reason you are bringing people to that spot. If the only reason is for the geocache, then find a better spot."

briansnat, Charter Member

 

That quote should come up every time someone looks at the submit-a-cache form. 

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Posted (edited)

A Rail-Trail in my area was just extended four or five miles to connect with another Trail in the next town. It's a great thing, giving safe bike-passage on a growing network of ex-railroad beds.

 

Within a few weeks, someone (I think it was a couple of buddies, actually) crammed the WHOLE new stretch with 500 foot guardrail mags & zip-tied bison tubes, focused 'internally', meaning every one was about "here's another hide" instead of "here's a great place".

 

THAT'S an aspect of PTs that I don't like. Nobody else can play on that stretch; nobody gets a chance to say "Look at the view, or the waterfall, or the birds in the swamp."

 

If you DID manage to get a cache in there, dollars-to-donuts it would get ignored as 'just another on the trail'. Not much chance to stand out and be appreciated individually.

 

Just selfish. Bet they eat all the shrimp at a wedding, too.

Edited by TeamRabbitRun
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6 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

Are you serious?  This is not just a local problem.   It's a problem that affects local communities all over the world. 

I've cached in many places, and only a couple times had power trails nearby that caused me to adjust the center of my pocket query to minimize the clog. But, regardless of how common they really are, or whether they are, unbeknownst to me, the scourge of the Earth, they're still a local problem. Someone created them, someone is finding them, someone is enjoying them, so it's people in the area that need to change the priority of those COs from what those people are enjoying to what the person complaining would enjoy.

 

6 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

Maybe you don't see it be you apparently live in a geocaching utopia where all the caches are high quality, well maintained, with containers that never leak, and pens never run out of ink.

Oops. You let your pants down. Now it's obvious you're just complaining in general about anything you don't like. We aren't talking about bad containers or high quality. I wouldn't be surprised if my area has the same quality as yours, I just enjoy caching because of the good while you are outraged and blinded by the bad. I have to wonder whether if I lived where you do, I'd describe your area the same utopian terms.

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5 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Within a few weeks, someone (I think it was a couple of buddies, actually) crammed the WHOLE new stretch with 500 foot guardrail mags & zip-tied bison tubes, focused 'internally', meaning every one was about "here's another hide" instead of "here's a great place".

If they're your buddies, then talk to them about it. If they aren't your buddies, make them your buddies and then talk to them about it.

 

I certainly appreciate you wanting to use that area for your own caches, and I do wish you'd had your chance, but, at the same time, a lot of people will enjoy those caches, so it's not immediately obvious leaving the trail blank so you could hide one or two great caches would have added up to better caching overall. The best way to strike a good balance is to interact with the other COs to share the area. Some people here would ban such a series legally in the same way they banned you by getting there first. I'm not convinced one is better than the other.

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14 minutes ago, dprovan said:

I just enjoy caching because of the good while you are outraged and blinded by the bad

 

You sure do like to troll. 

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18 minutes ago, dprovan said:

If they're your buddies, then talk to them about it. If they aren't your buddies, make them your buddies and then talk to them about it.

 

I certainly appreciate you wanting to use that area for your own caches, and I do wish you'd had your chance, but, at the same time, a lot of people will enjoy those caches, so it's not immediately obvious leaving the trail blank so you could hide one or two great caches would have added up to better caching overall. The best way to strike a good balance is to interact with the other COs to share the area. Some people here would ban such a series legally in the same way they banned you by getting there first. I'm not convinced one is better than the other.

 

You're missing my point.

I didn't mean that they were MY buddies, I meant that THEY'RE buddies, working together to carpetcache the trail.
 
It's not that "I" wanted to plant caches along there, it's that ONLY they get to plant caches there. I'd much rather have a variety of cache types, hide types, COs and anything else that can be variable about geocaches in my area.
 
"I" don't like it when a space gets dominated by anyone or any one type of experience. Here are forty caches in a row, all virtually identical and not enhancing MY enjoyment of the hobby.

 

I'd love to see a land manager implement a policy that encourages cache diversity.

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36 minutes ago, dprovan said:

<...>

 

The best way to strike a good balance is to interact with the other COs to share the area.

 

<...>

 

AND, it's hard to interact with other, more-'greedy' COs on the trail when you have no idea that anyone's planning to red-tide a trail.

 

"Hey, I see you had twenty new caches pub'd last night on the new trail! Please stop, even tho I'm sure you have another twenty in the pipeline ready to be dropped tonight!  Oh, and if you're working with anyone else, please get them to stop, too! C'mon!!! Play fair!!!"

 

Or what? I'll tell their Moms?

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1 hour ago, dprovan said:

Must be before my time. I've only ever heard the first example called "a power trail", imply both the hiding and the finding require the minimum effort. The second kind is called "a series"

 

From what I've seen, calling a large group of caches "a series" doesn't make it fundamentally different from what I think of as a power trail (an niraD thinks of as a numbers trail).   The only difference that I see is that there are some "series" that have few caches than most power trails.   At the end of the day, the primary reason for placing the group of caches is to provide finders an opportunity to find as many caches as possible.  Calling it a series instead of a power trail is just semantic sugar coating.

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1 hour ago, Jayeffel said:

Where is that , I don't recognize any place names?

 

Just a bit south of Lancaster, PA

 

Ironically it's an area which used to be the playground of someone, who at one point was one of the most prolific hiders in the game (before power trails became a thing)

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59 minutes ago, dprovan said:

I've cached in many places, and only a couple times had power trails nearby that caused me to adjust the center of my pocket query to minimize the clog. But, regardless of how common they really are, or whether they are, unbeknownst to me, the scourge of the Earth, they're still a local problem. Someone created them, someone is finding them, someone is enjoying them, so it's people in the area that need to change the priority of those COs from what those people are enjoying to what the person complaining would enjoy.

 

Oops. You let your pants down. Now it's obvious you're just complaining in general about anything you don't like. We aren't talking about bad containers or high quality. I wouldn't be surprised if my area has the same quality as yours, I just enjoy caching because of the good while you are outraged and blinded by the bad. I have to wonder whether if I lived where you do, I'd describe your area the same utopian terms.

 

Sure, it's a problem that exists in a local area that may be caused but a handful of COs.  However, it's a scenario that exists all over the world. 

 

You clearly missed my point about a geocaching utopia.   Anyone that has read your posts over the years can easily detect a common theme of how you don't have the same problems that seem to be common everywhere else.    I suspect that my area is probably better in some ways than others.  We really only have one person that saturates trails with identical containers all hidden in the same manner.  However, there is a growing "all about the numbers" mentality that I didn't see 5-6 years ago in an area to the north.  Closer to home, the game is practically dead.  

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1 hour ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

THAT'S an aspect of PTs that I don't like. Nobody else can play on that stretch; nobody gets a chance to say "Look at the view, or the waterfall, or the birds in the swamp."

Once upon a time, there was an ethic among cache owners that you shouldn't hide a cache in a park where someone else had hidden one. That was before my time though.

 

After that, there was an ethic among cache owners that you should place a cache in a park so that it left room for someone else to place another cache in the same park. That was common in my area when I started.

 

Now, leaving room for other cache owners to do something seems pretty much irrelevant.

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19 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

From what I've seen, calling a large group of caches "a series" doesn't make it fundamentally different from what I think of as a power trail (an niraD thinks of as a numbers trail).   The only difference that I see is that there are some "series" that have few caches than most power trails. 

Maybe it's just the types of series that I've seen, but I don't think of a series as being the same thing as a power trail or a numbers trail at all.

 

A series is a group of caches that is unified by some theme. Most of the ones I've seen aren't 528ft/161m apart from each other along a road or trail. They can be miles apart from each other, and still reflect the common theme.

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1 hour ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

It's not that "I" wanted to plant caches along there, it's that ONLY they get to plant caches there. I'd much rather have a variety of cache types, hide types, COs and anything else that can be variable about geocaches in my area.

There's an interesting point.  Hm.

Where these odious placements occur, is there a vacuum? 

Are these "cache carpets" filling a void left by other would-be COs in the community? 

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33 minutes ago, niraD said:

Maybe it's just the types of series that I've seen, but I don't think of a series as being the same thing as a power trail or a numbers trail at all.

 

A series is a group of caches that is unified by some theme. Most of the ones I've seen aren't 528ft/161m apart from each other along a road or trail. They can be miles apart from each other, and still reflect the common theme.

 

This has been my experience in our area, too.  They really are quite different than power/numbers trails.

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44 minutes ago, niraD said:

Once upon a time, there was an ethic among cache owners that you shouldn't hide a cache in a park where someone else had hidden one. That was before my time though.

 

After that, there was an ethic among cache owners that you should place a cache in a park so that it left room for someone else to place another cache in the same park. That was common in my area when I started.

 

Now, leaving room for other cache owners to do something seems pretty much irrelevant. 

Those dang shrimp-hoggers!

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10 minutes ago, VAVAPAM said:

There's an interesting point.  Hm.

Where these odious placements occur, is there a vacuum? 

Are these "cache carpets" filling a void left by other would-be COs in the community? 

 

Oh, in your rush to provide this clever, snarky, dismissive, highly amusing comment, perhaps you forgot to read the part of the post that described the area in question and the origin of the caches.

 

You're not very clear as to what your point is; only that you're criticizing what I wrote. Did you have an actual question?

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1 minute ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

 

Oh, in your rush to provide this clever, snarky, dismissive, highly amusing comment, perhaps you forgot to read the part of the post that described the area in question and the origin of the caches.

 

You're not very clear as to what your point is; only that you're criticizing what I wrote. Did you have an actual question?

You fully misinterpret my intent, and I'm sorry that you took it be a personal attack in some way.

That was an actual question, a bona fide musing ... it didn't occur to me that it would be amusing or reflect on you in any way.  Huh.

 

The shrimp-eaters one, though, yeah, that was just a flippant remark.  I thought your characterization was funny!

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6 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

You're not very clear as to what your point is; only that you're criticizing what I wrote. Did you have an actual question?

Why, yes.  You quoted them, actually. 

 

18 minutes ago, VAVAPAM said:

Where these odious placements occur, is there a vacuum? 

Are these "cache carpets" filling a void left by other would-be COs in the community? 

I'm guessing your answer would be ... no?

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