Geocache not published due to phisical mistery container location

[deiwor]

Hello everyone.

 

I've just wrote this in the "Spain" subforum in spanish but it has no so much activity so I'll try here [Spanish topic] ...

 

I'm a basic member, and I've been playing geocaching for almost two years so I decided to contribute hiding my first own geocache. I used the main geocaching.com website and I've found a valid place among the red circles with the 161m separation.

 

Now I am in a loop with the moderator of the area trying to validate the geocache because he sais the position is not valid due to the final container of a mistery one is closer than 161m (which is not reflected with the red circles and I am not able to play mistery as i'm basic). Keep in mind the mistery geocache pin is 1km away.

 

So I can not publish the geocache neither the moderator tells me which is the coordinates of that container in order to try to find another place to hide. I try to align all the rule but even with the maps showing restricted areas, there are another we are not able to see. Is a very annoying experience after so much effort.

 

For whom which are available to see unpublished hides, I'm talking about GC84HHC.

 

All help is appreciated.

 

Regards.

 

[+Max and 99]

13 minutes ago, deiwor said:

So I can not publish the geocache neither the moderator tells me which is the coordinates of that container in order to try to find another place to hide

What would be the purpose of puzzle caches if the reviewer could just give away coordinates to anyone who asked? 

You can solve and log the Mystery cache, even as a basic member (using the website), but it may be more work if the hidden mystery cache is Premium Member Cache, which you won't be able to see in the map. That puzzle looks a little hard!I

Can you contact the owner of the cache to ask for help?

Edited July 30, 2019 by Max and 99

[Keystone]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 7:13 AM, Keystone said:

 

If mystery caches and multicaches had their secret final locations show up on the planning map, then people would use that tool to cheat having to solve a puzzle or find all the stages of the multi-cache. 

 Adding on to that recent response in a similar thread, if I told you the coordinates of the conflicting cache's hidden waypoint, then the owner of the conflicting cache would be angry with me for "giving away" the secret to their cache.  So, I don't do that.   

 

Some reviewers will give the name of the cache that's causing the conflict.  Some (like me) will give an approximate, rounded-up distance to the hidden waypoint, like "less than 300 feet from a multicache that you have not found."  But no reviewer will give the exact coordinates.

[+Max and 99]

I sent you the GC code of the cache that may be conflicting with yours. It might help.

[deiwor]

14 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

What would be the purpose of puzzle caches if the reviewer could just give away coordinates to anyone who asked? 

You can solve and log the Mystery cache, even as a basic member (using the website), but it may be more work if the hidden mystery cache is Premium Member Cache, which you won't be able to see in the map. That puzzle looks a little hard!I

Can you contact the owner of the cache to ask for help?

 

Well, but if the hiding map does not show even an aproximantion of a mistery either the red circle, there is a gap which causes headaches. If m

y position is not exactly the same as the location of mistery geocache, what would be the probability of finding the wrong cache?

I've not played yet mistery caches, I'm still focused on single ones, I wrote to the cache owner just to have an idea of how far should I move my hiding in order to publish.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Keystone said:

 Adding on to that recent response in a similar thread, if I told you the coordinates of the conflicting cache's hidden waypoint, then the owner of the conflicting cache would be angry with me for "giving away" the secret to their cache.  So, I don't do that.   

 

Some reviewers will give the name of the cache that's causing the conflict.  Some (like me) will give an approximate, rounded-up distance to the hidden waypoint, like "less than 300 feet from a multicache that you have not found."  But no reviewer will give the exact coordinates.

 

Well, that would be enough, or at least with "Move to the north, move to the south....", I've not created this geocache in order to discover where the mistery is located

[+Max and 99]

3 minutes ago, deiwor said:

 

Well, but if the hiding map does not show even an aproximantion of a mistery either the red circle, there is a gap which causes headaches. If m

y position is not exactly the same as the location of mistery geocache, what would be the probability of finding the wrong cache?

I've not played yet mistery caches, I'm still focused on single ones, I wrote to the cache owner just to have an idea of how far should I move my hiding in order to publish.

 

 

 

 

Well, that would be enough, or at least with "Move to the north, move to the south....", I've not created this geocache in order to discover where the mistery is located

It's a benefit of PM to be able to see all geocaches. At least non PM geocachers can solve and log those geocaches! If the CO won't help you, solving the puzzle may be the only answer. Sorry!

[+arisoft]

56 minutes ago, deiwor said:

So I can not publish the geocache neither the moderator tells me which is the coordinates of that container in order to try to find another place to hide. I try to align all the rule but even with the maps showing restricted areas, there are another we are not able to see. Is a very annoying experience after so much effort.

 

It is annoying but there is not much you can do. In this case, the "free" area you found for your cache is already surrounded by traditional caches at almost every direction. It is possible that your reviewer can not give you any advice because there is no free space left in this area.

 

If your cache is going to introduce a specific place, for example, a monument or an art piece, you can use the position as a virtual starting waypoint for a multi-cache and place the final cache container anywhere you can find space for it.

[+cerberus1]

1 hour ago, deiwor said:

I'm a basic member, and I've been playing geocaching for almost two years so I decided to contribute hiding my first own geocache. I used the main geocaching.com website and I've found a valid place among the red circles with the 161m separation.

Now I am in a loop with the moderator of the area trying to validate the geocache because he sais the position is not valid due to the final container of a mistery one is closer than 161m (which is not reflected with the red circles and I am not able to play mistery as i'm basic). Keep in mind the mistery geocache pin is 1km away.

 

So I can not publish the geocache neither the moderator tells me which is the coordinates of that container in order to try to find another place to hide. I try to align all the rule but even with the maps showing restricted areas, there are another we are not able to see. Is a very annoying experience after so much effort.

For whom which are available to see unpublished hides, I'm talking about GC84HHC.

 

I get a line saying that the GC# you gave isn't valid...

 A premium member would have to do that mystery to know where the final is.  Multis too.  

I can walk a long time, so multis are my best bet, but I'm not very good at puzzles.  I'd be in the same boat.   

There's no secret code that will give anyone the final coordinates on those types of caches.

You can,  as a basic member,  go with someone who's a premium member to find that cache and use an alternative method to log it.

This will at least get you the information you're looking for.  We "team-up" with others often.

If it's simply an "advanced" cache,  you can get the cache info needed/available on the website for all types, all D/T ...  just not PMO caches.

[+Max and 99]

I think it's a 2.5/1.5 non PMO cache.

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Max and 99

[deiwor]

Thank you everyone for your messages. I obtained small advice from moderator so I strolled a couple of hours ago finding other places to hind. There is one, but i will need a smaller container in order to put so I hope the following days I'll be able to publish that.

 

Regards!

[+MNTA]

deiwor I definitely share your frustrations and truly wish GS would fix this problem. Yes I think it is a problem. So you are not alone. The placement tool truly needs to be improved specially in high density areas with a lot of mystery caches. Personally cheaters will always exist and should not be the reason why a placement tool can't be easily used. My suggestion was to put a random nebulous area over the cache area to indicate check with reviewer first even a warning of in the general area. I'm sure alternate solutions could be thought of.  If someone wants to cheat how is that hurting anyone including the CO. Make the requirements for logging solve the puzzle and use a web site (there are many) to give the actual coordinates. If you don't go through the web site delete the log, this could be one option. Instead this makes hiding caches more difficult than it should just to protect something that no one has solved or cared to solve for years.  Don't get me wrong I like a good puzzle and spent many an hour solving a few that catch my interest, will descend from my soapbox now sorry for the rant. 

[+Max and 99]

9 minutes ago, MNTA said:

just to protect something that no one has solved or cared to solve for years

Ouch.

[+bflentje]

I am just wondering how much effort it really was. If finding a place to hide a cache caused me that much anxiety or angst I probably wouldn't bother hiding.

[+arisoft]

13 hours ago, MNTA said:

Don't get me wrong I like a good puzzle and spent many an hour solving a few that catch my interest, will descend from my soapbox now sorry for the rant. 

 

I am not getting your wrong. I just found that your both mystery caches are hidden in the posted coordinates so you have nothing to lose in this game.

The truth is that the current system is already abused using saturation checks. It depends on the person whether they are happy or frustrated when their cache plans hit a hidden waypoint.

 

[+The A-Team]

14 hours ago, MNTA said:

If someone wants to cheat how is that hurting anyone including the CO.

 

Why is cheating bad? Let me count the ways...

[+GO Geiger]

14 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

I am not getting your wrong. I just found that your both mystery caches are hidden in the posted coordinates so you have nothing to lose in this game.

The truth is that the current system is already abused using saturation checks. It depends on the person whether they are happy or frustrated when their cache plans hit a hidden waypoint.

 

I was at an event somewhere a while back (MWGB? GW? not sure) and was at a reviewer panel and someone asked about saturation checks and how they could be abused.  The response was that if someone was obviously "battleshipping" (repeatedly asking for coordinate checks in an attempt to pin down where another cache was), that the reviewer in question had been known to allow publication of a cache within the 528' buffer zone around another cache.  (To throw off the person trying to find the puzzle or multi via coordinate checks with the reviewer.)

They stressed that this was extremely rare.

[Keystone]

That was my story, GO Geiger.  Thanks for remembering!  I have done that "anti-battleshipping" trick maybe three times in my 16 years as a reviewer.  Word gets around that it doesn't work.

[+The A-Team]

7 hours ago, Keystone said:

I have done that "anti-battleshipping" trick maybe three times in my 16 years as a reviewer.  Word gets around that it doesn't work.

Yep, and I think we need to keep that human/canine element in the process to watch for things like this. As soon as you have an automated system, someone will find ways to abuse it or work around it.

[+niraD]

For reference, please see the Help Center article Check for minimum distance, especially the section "Ask a reviewer to check coordinates".

[+Max and 99]

On 7/30/2019 at 1:06 PM, deiwor said:

 

Well, but if the hiding map does not show even an aproximantion of a mistery either the red circle, there is a gap which causes headaches. If m

y position is not exactly the same as the location of mistery geocache, what would be the probability of finding the wrong cache?

 

Congratulations, deiwor, on successfully publishing 5 new geocaches!