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koalabinski

When a cache gets muggled?

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Hi all, new here! This has probably been asked a million times already, but what do you do when your cache gets muggled? 

 

I hid a cache and I had a suspicion that it would eventually be muggled. It was one of my first cache hides and in hindsight I wouldn't put it in the same place again. Are there any rules/etiquette about replacing a cache but moving it (and also making it a bigger container for some themed swag) is it rude to completely change it? Would those who have already found it be upset? 

 

Thanks in advance 😊

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It's ok to move it up to 161m provided it doesn't go within 161m of any others. Any more would require a reviewer to do it. If you are going to change it significantly, e.g. the way its hidden, container size and type, terrain etc I think it would be better to archive the existing listing and start afresh. I hope to get down that way in February to log my first Tassie find.

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I had a look at the map and it looks like proximity to others won't be any problem. Also, those who have already found it shouldn't be upset, in fact it would be the reverse - another cache to find and another smiley face.

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15 hours ago, colleda said:

I had a look at the map and it looks like proximity to others won't be any problem. Also, those who have already found it shouldn't be upset, in fact it would be the reverse - another cache to find and another smiley face.

Thanks Colleda for your reply 😊 the original cache was a small container with a magnet which I attached to a cannon. It was relatively obvious if you had a good look 😂 I was thinking about hiding a medium-large container in the bush (161m+ away) instead. It's a lovely area, I could probably even get away with having a micro in the same location AND a large one in the bush. 

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5 hours ago, koalabinski said:

It's a lovely area, I could probably even get away with having a micro in the same location AND a large one in the bush. 

 

No, you couldn't,   unless the two containers were part of the same multi-cache.    

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8 hours ago, koalabinski said:

 ...what do you do when your cache gets muggled? 

I hid a cache and I had a suspicion that it would eventually be muggled. It was one of my first cache hides and in hindsight I wouldn't put it in the same place again. Are there any rules/etiquette about replacing a cache but moving it (and also making it a bigger container for some themed swag) is it rude to completely change it? Would those who have already found it be upset? 

 

"What do you do..." depends on area, permission, and your commitment to that hide.  :)

You say you already had a suspicion it'd go bye-bye. Hopefully when you asked for permission you had a couple more options for hiding.

If it was on the item, hopefully you realized that more than just us play there. If it was, I'm kinda surprised this didn't happen sooner.

You have .8 leeway to find a new area, and still fit the second one you mentioned  (in another post)  placed.

 - Read about distances allowed to move your hide in the guidelines.

Pretty-much the only thing you can't change is the cache type.    ;)

I feel it'd be much nicer if you do replace that borderline micro/small, and place a bigger container in another location.

You can still present what you intended, without putting people on it. 

Good luck.

 

 

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You don't have to worry about past finders or, really, anyone. It's your cache. As long as you don't do anything against guidelines, it's up to you.

 

Having said that, stop and consider whether you're really hiding the same cache or a difference cache. Larger container, changed from ordinary to in-theme? That sounds like a different cache, even if it's just v2.0 of the same idea. So consider whether you want to just archive the old listing and post a new listing. There are many reasons to go either way, so whatever feels right to you is still the way to think about it. My main point is that you don't have to use the same listing just because it's close to the same spot.

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9 hours ago, koalabinski said:

Are there any rules/etiquette about replacing a cache but moving it (and also making it a bigger container for some themed swag) is it rude to completely change it? Would those who have already found it be upset? 

There are two parts to this question: the rules and the etiquette.

 

The rules are what others have mentioned. You can edit the cache listing after publication, and except for the cache type, you can change pretty much anything. You can update the coordinates with an Update Coordinates log type, and move it up to 528ft (161m).

 

The etiquette is that the original cache is part of the caching history of the people who have already found it. When they review the listings of the caches they've found (or when they return to the cache for some reason), it would be good for the cache and its listing to be familiar to them. As the first Help Center article I linked to says, "If edits to your cache page change the experience of your geocache fundamentally, it may be appropriate to archive the cache page and submit a new one."

 

Personally, if I were replacing a magnetic micro on a cannon with a larger hide in a bush, I'd archive it and create a new listing.

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50 minutes ago, niraD said:

The etiquette is that the original cache is part of the caching history of the people who have already found it. When they review the listings of the caches they've found (or when they return to the cache for some reason), it would be good for the cache and its listing to be familiar to them. As the first Help Center article I linked to says, "If edits to your cache page change the experience of your geocache fundamentally, it may be appropriate to archive the cache page and submit a new one."

While I agree that confusing past finders is one thing to consider, I'd hardly call it "etiquette". I agree that, as you say, "it would be good", and I do encourage any CO modifying the cache in significant ways to post a new listing, it's not rude if the CO, taking everything into account, decides to change things under the same listing.

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Thanks all. I will have a chat with my reviewer. This was only my second cache hide and in retrospect I would definitely do things differently! Rookie error 🤦‍♀️

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12 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

No, you couldn't,   unless the two containers were part of the same multi-cache.    

You may have missed the part where he indicated the bush was more than 161m away from the cannon so he could have both as individual caches.

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Cheers all, after a discussion with our local reviewer/geocache guru I have decided to move the cache about 20m from the original location and put a short explanation in the description stating that the cache has moved due to mugging 👍 and I'll just keep the cache the same size. 

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I f I could move it fairly close to its original spot, maybe within 40-50m or so, and keep the hide similar, I'd just move it, more than that I'd archive and relist.

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Thanks all, cache has been replaced. 50m away from the original location (which was a little further than I'd like) but a much safer position.

 

Just another question. There's a cache near me and it's quite a walk to get there. It's had 3 DNFs and no finds since November (crushed remains of a cache container at GZ) the owner hasn't been up to check. Are DNFs automatically sent to the reviewer? Or do I put in a maintenance request? ☺️

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30 minutes ago, koalabinski said:

 There's a cache near me and it's quite a walk to get there. It's had 3 DNFs and no finds since November (crushed remains of a cache container at GZ) the owner hasn't been up to check. Are DNFs automatically sent to the reviewer? Or do I put in a maintenance request? ☺️

 

Reviewers don't receive DNF or NM logs.   Some check around once in a while - and there's also the Cache Health Score.   :)

 

The Needs Maintenance   guidelines  say:   " If you find a geocache in need of help..."

It also says that you could log a Needs Archived if "You couldn't find a cache and it has several “Didn’t Find It (DNF)” or “Needs Maintenance” logs on the cache page with no cache owner response."

Both seem (to me) to say you shouldn't armchair  action logs if you haven't been there...

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28 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Reviewers don't receive DNF or NM logs.   Some check around once in a while - and there's also the Cache Health Score.   :)

 

The Needs Maintenance   guidelines  say:   " If you find a geocache in need of help..."

It also says that you could log a Needs Archived if "You couldn't find a cache and it has several “Didn’t Find It (DNF)” or “Needs Maintenance” logs on the cache page with no cache owner response."

Both seem (to me) to say you shouldn't armchair  action logs if you haven't been there...

I was the first DNF in November, so definitely not armchair actioning 😂 and not long after me quite an experienced cacher also logged a DNF and another recently. It was a big walk (uphill with 2 kids 😂) and disappointing not to get the cache at the end! Owner has quite a few cache hides requiring maintenance and seems not to be caching any more. 

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1 hour ago, koalabinski said:

I was the first DNF in November, so definitely not armchair actioning 😂 and not long after me quite an experienced cacher also logged a DNF and another recently. It was a big walk (uphill with 2 kids 😂) and disappointing not to get the cache at the end! Owner has quite a few cache hides requiring maintenance and seems not to be caching any more. 

You would not be out of order to now log an NM then  one month later, if there has been no response, log a NA. Oz reviewers usually stipulate waiting 30 days between NM and NA but have been known to act quicker.

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2 hours ago, koalabinski said:

Just another question. There's a cache near me and it's quite a walk to get there. It's had 3 DNFs and no finds since November (crushed remains of a cache container at GZ) the owner hasn't been up to check. Are DNFs automatically sent to the reviewer? Or do I put in a maintenance request? ☺️

Never mind the reviewer. The cache needs maintenance. File an NM. If you found crushed remains when you first DNFed it, you should have filed the NM immediately at that time. NMs tell the owner that the cache needs maintenance, and that's exactly what you want to do when you find a crushed container, DNFs or not. You shouldn't depend on the CO to noticing a problem described in a DNF.

 

Not that it matters much: from what you describe, you or someone else are going to have to file an NA to get it off the books soon.

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2 hours ago, colleda said:

You would not be out of order to now log an NM then  one month later, if there has been no response, log a NA. Oz reviewers usually stipulate waiting 30 days between NM and NA but have been known to act quicker.

 

Thanks 😂 I wasn't sure what I had to do, I just assumed that the DNFs would have been enough 🤦‍♀️ I've sent a NA request to the reviewer as it's quite obvious CO isn't doing maintenance on any of the other caches. 

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