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Garmin Oregon 700 stopped downloading new geocaches over WiFi


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4 hours ago, AlexUK51 said:

My Garmin Oregon 700 has suddenly stopped downloading new geocaches using WiFi. I have checked the Wifi password and tried un-registering and re-registering the device.

Can anyone please suggest what the problem might be?

Regards,

Alex

 

Is this the same issue as the one from 2017?  Has it been working until today?

 

My brand new 750t doesn't even try to download from my iPhone Personal Hotspot (wi-fi).  Yet it works fine on my home wi-fi, that seems to be the 2017 issue.

 

Also, mine can occasionally pair to Bluetooth, ends up with two devices, one called "LE".  It seems absolutely broken on Bluetooth.  Or else I don't understand what it's doing.  Anyway, all it does is "pair", and from then it "can't connect".  So I'm unable to even try to do Geocaching Live on Bluetooth.  Software version 4.40.

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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My issue in 2017 was that the Oregon would not download via my smartphone but it was OK with home wifi.

This time it won't work with wifi. It was OK last week. I zoom the map to where I know there is a new geocache, the spinning circle appears for 30 seconds then stops with no caches appearing.

I'm using software version 4.40.

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I thought my Oregon 700 had stopped downloading geocaches the other day as well. Just like others here report, the circle would spin on the screen but nothing would appear afterward, on the map or in the list. Turned out I had a filter enabled that hid most geocaches, and once I selected 'show all' they were revealed to me!

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36 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

I thought my Oregon 700 had stopped downloading geocaches the other day as well. Just like others here report, the circle would spin on the screen but nothing would appear afterward, on the map or in the list. Turned out I had a filter enabled that hid most geocaches, and once I selected 'show all' they were revealed to me!

Ha! I thought of that and checked the filters which seemed to be OK in my case.

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After further experimentation I have discovered the Oregon will download over wifi certain types of cache, e.g. multicaches, virtual, earthcaches, etc but NOT traditional caches. I have double checked that there are no filters in operation and it should download all types. I can't understand how this can happen.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

Regards,

Alex

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37 minutes ago, AlexUK51 said:

After further experimentation I have discovered the Oregon will download over wifi certain types of cache, e.g. multicaches, virtual, earthcaches, etc but NOT traditional caches. I have double checked that there are no filters in operation and it should download all types. I can't understand how this can happen.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

Regards,

Alex

 

Yes!  I saw the same effect just now.  I had not changed anything since yesterday when it worked.

 

I tried it just now, and instead of the usual screenfuls of gigantic brown treasure chests, I was getting only a Virtual icon or a Multi here and there.  I filtered out the "Traditional" filter, then viewed the map, and when I returned, "Traditional" had somehow become "unfiltered" again, yet still with no such caches in view.  All this time, the PQ-loaded caches were in view just fine including Traditionals.  It affects only the Geocaching Live caches.

 

Then I tried the "Apply a Saved Filter", "Show All",  which is in the lower right corner of the filter selection screen (a funnel on a folder icon).  At that point, all caches appeared.  So I guess they were already loaded, but filtered.   At the moment, mine is working.

 

There are two related issues that I've seen with the 650 that I guess exist in the 750.  The first is that when you select a filter, it may become "de-selected" again a few seconds later.  You have to go back and check.  The second is that when you select a filter, it takes a few moments for the filter to properly occur, even if the icon looks fine.  Sorry if that doesn't make sense, but it looks like a bug to me and it's hard to explain.

 

So far, all the major issues on my new Oregon 750t relate to "Geocaching Live".  I can't get a full "Bluetooth" connection, wi-fi sends no caches from my iPhone, and there are some glitches where caches suddenly don't show or aren't loading over even the home wi-fi that usually works.  "Geocaching Live" was a cute idea, but it's in no way reliable enough to use in the field.  I will be pre-loading Pocket Queries as always, in addition to using my phone for the occasional cache that I didn't load in advance.  And I'm going to stop fiddling with "Geocaching Live".

 

Edited by kunarion
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49 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

Yes!  I saw the same effect just now.  I had not changed anything since yesterday when it worked.

 

Then I tried the "Apply a Saved Filter", "Show All",  which is in the lower right corner of the filter selection screen (a funnel on a folder icon).  At that point, all caches appeared.  So I guess they were already loaded, but filtered.   At the moment, mine is working.

 

Clearly, you had enabled a filter at some point!

 

I cant count how many times users have posted here they dont have any filters set, only to eventually (and begrudgingly) resolve the issue by using the show all filter, just as you have.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

Clearly, you had enabled a filter at some point!

 

I cant count how many times users have posted here they dont have any filters set, only to eventually (and begrudgingly) resolve the issue by using the show all filter, just as you have.

 

 

 

I don't expect it to happen without my actually setting it.  Plus, nothing looked "set" at the time.  But Show All did seem to be the thing that fixed it.

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18 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

I don't expect it to happen without my actually setting it.  Plus, nothing looked "set" at the time.  But Show All did seem to be the thing that fixed it.

 

I just dusted off my Oregon 7x0 to do some testing, and it appears to me Groundspeak have again changed something in the API, because my Oregon 7x0 actually showed every cache downloaded as a generic 'geocache' closed chest symbol, instead of displaying actual cache types such as traditional, multi, virtual, etc.

We know the firmware has not changed on the Garmin GPSr, which only leaves Groundspeak screwing around with the API, which they have been doing a lot of in recent days and weeks....

 

edit: This is also the behavior on my GPSMAP 66 - so indeed Groundspeak have made some changes to the API that Garmin (and other GCLive partners) will have to adapt to.....

 

Edited by Atlas Cached
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2 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

I just dusted off my Oregon 7x0 to do some testing, and it appears to me Groundspeak have again changed something in the API, because my Oregon 7x0 actually showed every cache downloaded as a generic 'geocache' closed chest symbol, instead of displaying actual cache types such as traditional, multi, virtual, etc.

We know the firmware has not changed on the Garmin GPSr, which only leaves Groundspeak screwing around with the API, which they have been doing a lot of in recent days and weeks....

 

OK, that explains something.  Thanks! :)

 

My 750t is brand new (just now setting it up these past few days), and I don't know what the "Geocaching Live" caches should look like.  I simply thought they are like that by design to differentiate them from pre-loaded caches.  Guess not. :anicute:

 

Yeah, maybe there are some tweaks happening right now.  This situation seems to be changing as we speak.  People who are seeing sudden strangeness may simply need to wait a few months couple of days and see if the whole problem clears up automagically.

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15 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

I just dusted off my Oregon 7x0 to do some testing, and it appears to me Groundspeak have again changed something in the API, because my Oregon 7x0 actually showed every cache downloaded as a generic 'geocache' closed chest symbol, instead of displaying actual cache types such as traditional, multi, virtual, etc.

We know the firmware has not changed on the Garmin GPSr, which only leaves Groundspeak screwing around with the API, which they have been doing a lot of in recent days and weeks....

I have again tried the Show All filter setting and have replicated your device.... every cache is showing as a generic closed chest symbol. This is not much use to me as I need to see which type of cache to select. All this is a new development. My device was working as normal a few days ago.

Looks like I'll have to revert to the old way of tranferring pocket queries to the Oregon using the USB lead.

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1 hour ago, Mineral2 said:

If this were strictly a Groundspeak issue, other apps that rely on the API would also have problems. Groundspeak may have initially caused the problem with changes to the api, but Garmin also likely didn't write very good code to access the api.

 

There's something funky about the way the 700 handles null icons (or the big brown boxes, whatever they're called, the caches loaded with a default icon during this glitch) as it applies to the "Show All" Filter.  It was loading them just fine, but I could not view them until I messed around with "Show All", which was already set.  I had to... "Show the all of the All"... before they appeared.  Strangely, the first time I loaded some of these Live caches they showed.  I had not touched any "Filters" since opening the box, factory fresh, yet the Filters performed in two or three different ways during this glitch.

 

 

Edited by kunarion
Typos
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1 hour ago, Mineral2 said:

 

If this were strictly a Groundspeak issue, other apps that rely on the API would also have problems. Groundspeak may have initially caused the problem with changes to the api, but Garmin also likely didn't write very good code to access the api.

 

Are you seriously suggesting Garmin should write code that anticipates changes Groundspeak might make in the future?

 

The Garmin GPSr worked just fine one day. Then not the next day. There were no changes to the GPSr, but there were changes made to the API.

 

In what universe is that Garmins fault?

 

 

Edited by Atlas Cached
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16 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

There were no changes to the GPSr, but there were changes made to the API.

Right. And Groundspeak as the API's owner gives the rules. Every API partner should write their code to meet the API's needs accordingly. Even Garmin has to do so. Full Stop.

 

Hans

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34 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

Are you seriously suggesting Garmin should write code that anticipates changes Groundspeak might make in the future?

 

The Garmin GPSr worked just fine one day. Then not the next day. There were no changes to the GPSr, but there were changes made to the API.

 

In what universe is that Garmins fault?

 

 

I'm just saying that there is good code and there is bad code. And I know that programming a working application isn't cut and dry and simple, that fixing one problem often causes other problems elsewhere.

But given Garmin's history of buggy software on their (handheld) GPS units, it's not without reason to suggest that they take the lazy way and recycle code whenever possible. I can't blame them, everyone does it. But...

I also don't think they throw the minimal resources necessary to keep their products up to date. The products released lately are hardly at the forefront of technology, and it seems like they grudgingly update hardware and software out of necessity rather than willingness to stay on top of trends. Their late adoption of USB standards comes to mind - they just now, in 2018 with the release of the 66 series, switched to the more prevalent micro-USB-B port from the mini-USB. But this was their opportunity to skip micro-USB altogether for the new standard USB-C. Instead, we'll probably see it in 5-10 years time. Perhaps in the current problem, they are using code written in an earlier version of whatever language they are using to write the GPS software, and the new API no longer supports functions from that version. So they will be forced to update their programming and compilation with a new(er) version of that language.

Of course, this is all speculation. I don't really know what goes on at Garmin. But since they like to release new products with outdated hardware standards, it's not out of line to think that they also build the software with outdated coding standards.

 

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1 hour ago, HHL said:

Right. And Groundspeak as the API's owner gives the rules. Every API partner should write their code to meet the API's needs accordingly. Even Garmin has to do so. Full Stop.

 

Hans

 

Friday, all Garmin GPSr running the samae code could download and properly display geocache data.

 

Saturday, those same Garmin GPSr, using the exact same code as Friday, could no longer display the geocache data correctly.

 

This is not because Garmin failed to write their code to meet Groundspeak API specifications (or it would not have worked, ever).

 

Garmins GCLive API access code has been working just fine for weeks, months, and years. their code was not at fault.

 

Clearly Groundspeak made a change in how the API distributes geocache data.

 

And I know you understand this simple logic, HHL 8^)

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45 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

Blah Blah Blah

Of course, this is all speculation. I don't really know what goes on at Garmin. But since they like to release new products with outdated hardware standards, it's not out of line to think that they also build the software with outdated coding standards.

 

 

All Garmin GPSr could load and display geocache data correctly one day, then not the following day, using the same exact code.

 

It does not require a lot of logic to realize the GPSr code could not be at fault as something clearly changed in how the API distributes geocache data from one day to the next.

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But other apps didn't break. I know this because iCaching updated caches just fine on Saturday over the API. And I haven't heard and outcry from other app users, whether GSAK, Cachely, GCDroid, etc. over this. So whatever the issue is, it has not affected the partner apps. Maybe Garmin has special access to the data that the API partners don't have, and that has changed. Maybe Garmin was still using the old API and was given an extension to use it until now where everyone else was closed out of it at the beginning of June.

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1 hour ago, AlexUK51 said:

 I have taken the matter up with Groundspeak but as yet have not received a reply. 

Groundspeak vs. Garmin ... we've been down this road before.

Whoever is responsible, in the meantime we, the paying customer, are left with a device with reduced functionality.

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To be fair, the GPS still works as a GPS, and you can still load geocaches the old fashioned way. It's like having a glorified Oregon 600, with some of the non-geocaching upgrades. But it is a bit of a slap in the face to those who bought it specifically for the wireless downloading capabilities for geocaching.

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I bought it specifically for downloading caches out in the field in conjunction with a smartphone. I only use it for geocaching.  My 700 has always been hit and miss at doing this but never had problems with home wifi until now. If I'd known how temperamental it would be I would have got the 600 and saved some money.

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29 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

But other apps didn't break. I know this because iCaching updated caches just fine on Saturday over the API. And I haven't heard and outcry from other app users, whether GSAK, Cachely, GCDroid, etc. over this. So whatever the issue is, it has not affected the partner apps. Maybe Garmin has special access to the data that the API partners don't have, and that has changed. Maybe Garmin was still using the old API and was given an extension to use it until now where everyone else was closed out of it at the beginning of June.

 

"But Timmys parents let him stay out after dark..."

 

I'm no concerned with  'other Apps' - They all operate on entirely different platforms, and we don't know that they use the API the same way.

 

Stop letting inconsequential and unrelated information cloud your logic.

 

Nothing changed on the Garmin GPSr, yet from one day to the next they can no longer properly process information provided by the API, therefore, the API changed.

 

Perhaps Garmin GPSr use a different part of the API related to android and iOS devices, etc. Doesn't matter. Clearly the portion of the API that Garmin uses changed, and that is the issue.

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I have received a reply from Groundspeak as follows:

 

Thank you for contacting Geocaching HQ.

I have contacted our engineers and there was one API change that occurred mid-week last week. Garmin is aware of the change, but we do not know whether they are aware of the issues you are reporting with Geocaching Live. We recommend reaching out to Garmin's customer support team.

Best regards,

 

Ball in Garmin's court.

  • Upvote 2
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15 hours ago, AlexUK51 said:

I have received a reply from Groundspeak as follows:

 

Thank you for contacting Geocaching HQ.

I have contacted our engineers and there was one API change that occurred mid-week last week. Garmin is aware of the change, but we do not know whether they are aware of the issues you are reporting with Geocaching Live. We recommend reaching out to Garmin's customer support team.

Best regards,

 

Ball in Garmin's court.

 

Except for one small detail.

 

This issue has now been resolved.

 

All Garmin GPSr with GCLive capability now recieve proper API data and will again display geocache data correctly.

 

Without any changes made to the Garmin GPSr Firmware.

 

So, I ask all you smug Garmin haters once more....

 

"Where was the problem?"

 

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This issue revolved around the change in names of the Lost and Found Celebration and Lost and Found Event cache types. These are being updated for their 2020 and beyond implementation. The IDs remained the same, but the name changes caused strangeness in Garmin's firmware (even though testing had been performed on our staging server). The IDs should technically be all that is needed, but similar problems happened with Garmin units 9 years ago when we made what we thought were simple corrections in GPX content!

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4 minutes ago, Moun10Bike said:

This issue revolved around the change in names of the Lost and Found Celebration and Lost and Found Event cache types. These are being updated for their 2020 and beyond implementation. The IDs remained the same, but the name changes caused strangeness in Garmin's firmware (even though testing had been performed on our staging server). The IDs should technically be all that is needed, but similar problems happened with Garmin units 9 years ago when we made what we thought were simple corrections in GPX content!

 

Thank you Moun10Bike for the additional clarity - This is the type of useful information I was looking for!

 

8^)

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6 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

Except for one small detail.

 

This issue has now been resolved.

 

All Garmin GPSr with GCLive capability now recieve proper API data and will again display geocache data correctly.

 

Without any changes made to the Garmin GPSr Firmware.

 

So, I ask all you smug Garmin haters once more....

 

"Where was the problem?"

 

I don't hate Garmin but at the time of writing there was an issue which I asked for some help with.

I appreciate the input of those who have replied and can confirm that my Oregon is now working as it should.

Regards,

Alex

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My 66 is displaying a not unrelated problem

I have created a PQ and am trying to go upload it to the 66 via Bluetooth and my iphone

All goes well until it gets to 99% then I get "sync failed"

Tried it multiple times

Any suggestions please?

 

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15 hours ago, mikeD said:

My 66 is displaying a not unrelated problem

I have created a PQ and am trying to go upload it to the 66 via Bluetooth and my iphone

All goes well until it gets to 99% then I get "sync failed"

Tried it multiple times

Any suggestions please?

 

 

This thread is about problems loading caches using "Geocaching Live" and a Garmin Oregon 700 over wi-fi.  Your question is about loading Pocket Queries over Bluetooth to a "66"?  That's quite a course deviation. B)

 

However, I have brand new Oregon 750T and an iPhone 8, and Geocaching Live has always been extremely strange and unreliable for me.  I can load no caches from the phone, ever. Other devices connect fine and work from this phone. Bluetooth "connects" to the Garmin after several tries, and then stops functioning (at which point it usually won't connect again).  The iPhone's Personal wi-fi Hotspot will connect, but the "Geocaching Live" loading icon just spins until it times out with an error.  I haven't tested this from a Droid, but I'm guessing it would connect and load, and that it's an iPhone thing.  Just a guess. I can load Geocaching Live caches over wi-fi at home.  Those load fast, although this produces the generic "treasure chest" icons previously mentioned.  I haven't tested it enough to know what differences there may be between loading "Geocaching Live" and the "Geocache Lists" section.  Either one is loading over my home's wi-fi today.  I don't see a percent of download, I see a spinning circle icon, followed by errors in certain cases.

 

I can't even tell if you have the same issue or not.  But I was planning to wait a long time and see if it automagically clears up.  Because I notice I can put a lot of hard work into "troubleshooting" a new Garmin and ask both GS and Garmin.com til I'm blue in the nose, and whoever I ask, it's "the other company's problem".  Or I can wait and the see the issue fixed upon a new Garmin firmware release.  At which point, the firmware introduces new problems.  Then the API gets changed.   Anyway, my point is, wait a while. B)

 

Edited by kunarion
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46 minutes ago, kunarion said:

I don't see where a GPSMAP 66 is any different from the Garmin 700 series.  You don't "load PQs over Bluetooth".  You load "nearby caches" with Geocaching Live:

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=PgdsvMdRDdA3pGIEGW0JN9

 

You most certainly can load "PQ's via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi" on both the GPSMAP 66 and Oregon 7x0 series!

 

You can also load saved lists etc. to either device via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi.

 

 

GC PQ List Download Example 01.png

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1 hour ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

You most certainly can load "PQ's via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi" on both the GPSMAP 66 and Oregon 7x0 series!

 

You can also load saved lists etc. to either device via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi.

 

 

GC PQ List Download Example 01.png

 

Thanks!  I already clarified my statement.  It works, but Garmin's site doesn't seem to know about it.  Or the info is in another section.  I don't even know how the 66 works, compared to the 7 series.  I have to rely on what I find online. :ph34r:

 

Why are "Lists" in the setup area where you unregister the device?  Is there a plan to automate "Lists"?  It seems odd to manually load "Lists" from the Setup menu.

 

Edited by kunarion
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37 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

That issue has been resolved.

 

Super.  Next, you'll tell me all I have to do is a hard reset again, and VIOLA.  :ph34r:

 

What exactly will I see?  Because if it's just big brown boxes, I have those already.

 

[EDIT]:  Yes!  I get mostly circle icons now!  Looks like "Wherigo" is still a brown box, so that explains why I still see a few brown boxes here and there... they are caches with no proper icon.  I guess?  Now I have new questions.  B)

 

Edited by kunarion
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16 hours ago, mikeD said:

My 66 is displaying a not unrelated problem

I have created a PQ and am trying to go upload it to the 66 via Bluetooth and my iphone

All goes well until it gets to 99% then I get "sync failed"

Tried it multiple times

Any suggestions please?

 

 

Are you seeing an actual "percent" number when you load Lists?  If so, your device seems different enough to start a new thread!  All I see on my Oregon is a spinning circle, then errors if a load fails.  I can download "Lists" (from a combined a menu of PQs and Lists), and they seem to load "Basic Geocaching Details" with more to be "loaded in the background", all seems well.  But only on home wi-fi (and likely, other Hotspots including other phones).

 

I followed the steps here, and now my Bluetooth works!  You might try backtracking a little and setting up Garmin Connect and Bluetooth again.  I had originally done all that during the maelstrom of the past couple of weeks, and maybe that's why I never got it working.  Now that things are basically back to normal, all I had to do was set it up again.  Maybe I made a mistake before.  But it works now!

 

I'm unsure about "wi-fi" when using my iPhone as a personal Hotspot.  I still get a long wait and then "No Data".  But what do I even need that for? …I have caches loading great over Bluetooth! :)

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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Thanks Kunarion

I will try re attaching 

 

For the record yes it is connected via BT and it gives the % loaded

It is not simple to get it to show the  %, I have tell it to sync the PQ, it says...being downloaded...

To get the percentage I have to quit /back then choose  lists and enter and it generally shows the %

 

It is annoying to get to 99% loaded then it fails!

 

Will post me thread of it persists

 

Mike 

Btw

Just loaded  firmware  3.1. Over the air. That went ok

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6 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

1. Thanks!  I already clarified my statement.  It works, but Garmin's site doesn't seem to know about it.  Or the info is in another section.  

 

2. I don't even know how the 66 works, compared to the 7 series.  I have to rely on what I find online. :ph34r:

 

3. Why are "Lists" in the setup area where you unregister the device?  Is there a plan to automate "Lists"?  It seems odd to manually load "Lists" from the Setup menu.

 

 

1. We have already determined here that Garmin.com does not always have all information about how to use their GPSr.

 

2. Information about loading PQ's and Lists on both the Oregon 7x0 and GPSMAP 66 can be found at GPSrChive for each unit, in both the Setup and Geocache pages.

 

3. In the afore mentioned tutorials at GPSrChive, they demonstrate that the PQ and List Download section can be accessed from within the Geocache page by simply opening the Menu and selecting Setup.

 

 

 

Edited by Atlas Cached
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