Log deletions

[+kunarion]

4 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

???? Not part of the younger crowd, but still have no idea who this is. I could google him I suppose.

Just googled him. Better add many non-Americans to the "younger crowd" . (I had seen him in movies though; just didn't know his real name.)

 

Yeah.  He was the guy in an ad who had an American Express card or travelers checks, and the slogan was "Don't Leave Home Without It!"

 

I might start my own campaign, like, "Couple of working pens.  Don't go caching without it!"

 

[+jellis]

44 minutes ago, kd0bik said:

An interesting read for sure.  I wonder if the reasoning for being against stamps is the fact they tend to take up more room on the log sheet than just a signed entry?  I'm not saying this is justification for his rules....but perhaps the reasoning he's working under.  

I'll be honest.  I maintain about 14 caches at the moment and I'm amazed at the number of times someone will log a find and state they forgot their pen/pencil.  While I think some of our fellow geocachers carry around too much stuff and look completely out of place in some urban settings (especially when hunting LPC's), in my opinion having a pen/pencil is just part of the minimum requirements.  Having at least one backup pen/pencil is just smart, common sense.  

If Karl Malden had been a geocacher we wouldn't have this issue as he would remind everyone not to leave home without a pen.  Of course, I've just dated myself as most in the younger crowd won't know who Karl Malden is or the reference I'm making.  ?  
 

Mine is smaller then most handwritten ones. 

[+jellis]

https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2019/06/geocaching-etiquette-201-finding-and-logging/?newsletter=PM

[+Max and 99]

4 minutes ago, jellis said:

Mine is smaller then most handwritten ones

It sure is!

[+NanCycle]

19 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

???? Not part of the younger crowd, but still have no idea who this is. I could google him I suppose.

Just googled him. Better add many non-Americans to the "younger crowd" . (I had seen him in movies though; just didn't know his real name.)

 

If someone forgets their pen, I first check their other logs to see if this is a regular thing. IE, I might suspect them of being an armchair logger. If I find they always forget or drop their pen (I did have one of those once) I just delete. If it's not a regular occurrence I contact them to ask for more proof of find.

 

There have been times that I jumped out of the car,  leaving my pen  behind -- but I went back and got it..

Edited June 19, 2019 by NanCycle
Typed before I read the rest of the thread.

[+jellis]

9 hours ago, funkymunkyzone said:

 

And yet before you said...

 

 

Partially is the word. He once kept bringing up to me when I used my stamp and forgot to use the one with mine and another cacher on it who was with me so I re stamped it. It wasn’t even his cache. 

[+kunarion]

3 minutes ago, NanCycle said:

There have been times that I jumped out of the car,  leaving my pen  behind -- but I went back and got it..

 

I've done that, too.  I'm never gonna be one of those "I didn't have a pen probably saw a cache gimme a Smiley" guys. 

 

But one other thing I "don't have" is my hiking stick... "don't need that, the cache is just 30 feet from the curb!"... and routinely have to go get the hiking stick because the pine straw and leaves are hiding the container too well.  Since I now try to always bring that, I could design a compartment in that stick for an emergency pen.  Or two.

 

The stick I use most is made from a carbon fiber golf club shaft.  I'm thinking I can drill down through the handle for a hollow space to fit a decent writing utensil.  If I do that, I'll post a picture.

 

Then all I have to do is not forget the stick at the cache site, and I'm golden.

[+NanCycle]

12 minutes ago, kunarion said:

Then all I have to do is not forget the stick at the cache site, and I'm golden.

 

Lol I've done that too,  and had to go back for it.

[+L0ne.R]

2 hours ago, kd0bik said:

An interesting read for sure.  I wonder if the reasoning for being against stamps is the fact they tend to take up more room on the log sheet than just a signed entry?  I'm not saying this is justification for his rules....but perhaps the reasoning he's working under. 

 

Because jellis is using a small stamp, and he (the CO) hasn't said anything about size being the problem, I think his reasoning against the use of stamps is that people are using the 'divide-and-conquer' group caching style of play in his area. It's done to get more smiley points. A stamp with the groups name is made and each member carries a group stamp. The group's ethos is that at least one person did get to ground zero and found the cache (or in some cases depending on the ethos of the group, at least one person got to ground zero and left a throwdown with the group's name). Sometimes this behavior is assumed by the CO when the group find a huge number of caches in a day and all log generic logs not mentioning a visit to each of the caches. Sometimes the CO hears about the groups practices through the grapevine from other sites like Facebook, or perhaps talk that goes around at events. The CO cannot do anything about this practice. They must allow it. They can not insist that finders write their individual trailnames as more concrete proof that they actually visited the cache.  

Edited June 19, 2019 by L0ne.R
clarification

[+IceColdUK]

2 hours ago, jellis said:

https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2019/06/geocaching-etiquette-201-finding-and-logging/?newsletter=PM

 

I thought this was timely given this discussion.  It does say (as in the guidelines):

 

Caches can be logged online as “Found” after the geocacher has visited the coordinates and signed the logbook.

 

But that does sort of assume there is a logbook to sign.

 

If I found a cache without a logbook, I’d add a temporary replacement - if I’m unprepared, it might just be the back of an old receipt.  I’d claim the find and add a NM log.

 

Would you delete a found log on one of your caches in that situation?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

30 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

 

Because jellis is using a small stamp, and he (the CO) hasn't said anything about size being the problem, I think his reasoning against the use of stamps is that people are using the 'divide-and-conquer' group caching style of play in his area. It's done to get more smiley points. A stamp with the groups name is made and each member carries a group stamp. The group's ethos is that at least one person did get to ground zero and found the cache (or in some cases depending on the ethos of the group, at least one person got to ground zero and left a throwdown with the group's name). Sometimes this behavior is assumed by the CO when the group find a huge number of caches in a day and all log generic logs not mentioning a visit to each of the caches. Sometimes the CO hears about the groups practices through the grapevine from other sites like Facebook, or perhaps talk that goes around at events. The CO cannot do anything about this practice. They must allow it. They can not insist that finders write their individual trailnames as more concrete proof that they actually visited the cache.  

 

On the other hand,  because some teams use the divide-and-conquer style of play (which GS, has now come out and stated violates geocaching etiquette), and use stamps with a "team name",   the CO doesn't have concrete proof that the online log (posted to an individual account) was from someone that actually visited the cache.    In the scenario in this thread, jellis used a stamp which is clearly being used by an individual (the name on the stamp is a distinct geocaching user name) in lieu of a written signature, while  the divide and conquer style players use a stamp for a "team" which only exists while caches are being found (or in some cases, not found) that somehow dissolves when it comes time to post online found it logs.  The stamp and is used to expedite the finding process by shaving a few seconds off the amount of time it takes for each cache *and* to facilitate the  divide-and-conquer process itself by using a facsimile for a signature rather than something written by a person.

[+jellis]

14 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

 

I thought this was timely given this discussion.  It does say (as in the guidelines):

 

Caches can be logged online as “Found” after the geocacher has visited the coordinates and signed the logbook.

 

But that does sort of assume there is a logbook to sign.

 

If I found a cache without a logbook, I’d add a temporary replacement - if I’m unprepared, it might just be the back of an old receipt.  I’d claim the find and add a NM log.

 

Would you delete a found log on one of your caches in that situation?

I would have excepted him putting a logsheet. We did have to set him straight about putting throw-downs. He thought he was helping. 

[+MartyBartfast]

1 hour ago, L0ne.R said:

I think his reasoning against the use of stamps is that people are using the 'divide-and-conquer' group caching style of play in his area

 

I don't see how use of stamps particularly facilitates the divide-and-conquer method, it's surely just as easy for each part of the team to simply write the team name in the logs.

[+jellis]

2 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

I've done that, too.  I'm never gonna be one of those "I didn't have a pen probably saw a cache gimme a Smiley" guys. 

 

But one other thing I "don't have" is my hiking stick... "don't need that, the cache is just 30 feet from the curb!"... and routinely have to go get the hiking stick because the pine straw and leaves are hiding the container too well.  Since I now try to always bring that, I could design a compartment in that stick for an emergency pen.  Or two.

 

The stick I use most is made from a carbon fiber golf club shaft.  I'm thinking I can drill down through the handle for a hollow space to fit a decent writing utensil.  If I do that, I'll post a picture.

 

Then all I have to do is not forget the stick at the cache site, and I'm golden.

One reason I use s stamp, it is around my neck hardly runs out of ink, which I keep that in my car. But one day I forgot my stamp and a pen and got a stick, wet it got mud from the dirt and wrote my name and photographed in case it faded. 

[+NYPaddleCacher]

23 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

 

I don't see how use of stamps particularly facilitates the divide-and-conquer method, it's surely just as easy for each part of the team to simply write the team name in the logs.

 

stamps could be duplicated so that they appear to be identical,  there may be differences in the signature (assuming the CO cared to look) when it was written by different people.  

[+MartyBartfast]

3 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

there may be differences in the signature (assuming the CO cared to look) when it was written by different people.   

I realise that, but on the odd occasions I've been out with a team using a team signature it's the person who spots the cache first and retrieves it who signs the log, so the sigs would all be different handwriting and most likely different writing implements. I wouldn't expect teams to have a "designated signer" for all the logs.

 

 

[+niraD]

1 minute ago, MartyBartfast said:

I realise that, but on the odd occasions I've been out with a team using a team signature it's the person who spots the cache first and retrieves it who signs the log, so the sigs would all be different handwriting and most likely different writing implements. I wouldn't expect teams to have a "designated signer" for all the logs.

Even when I've been in groups where we didn't use an impromptu team name to sign all the logs, we have had different people signing the logs of different caches. So in one cache, all the names appear in one order, written with one person's handwriting, and in another cache, all the names appear in a different order, written in another person's handwriting. This is just a normal part of group caching.

[+cerberus1]

41 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

I don't see how use of stamps particularly facilitates the divide-and-conquer method, it's surely just as easy for each part of the team to simply write the team name in the logs.

 

Maybe it's the time involved ?  

We know of a "Team" that when one's placing caches, all team members sigs are already in the middle of the log somewhere (I was FTF...).

 - That's a lotta writing on multiple logs...  

[+funkymunkyzone]

8 hours ago, jellis said:

Partially is the word. He once kept bringing up to me when I used my stamp and forgot to use the one with mine and another cacher on it who was with me so I re stamped it. It wasn’t even his cache. 

Don't get me wrong, jellis, I'm with you on *everything* else.  I'm just offering you my opinion - that in hindsight you shouldn't have deleted his find log.

 

Ask yourself, if it was me finding your cache, no logsheet, I tell you politely in my find log that there was no logsheet (but I don't take a photo of the cache or anything else), and suppose there's none of the other negativity in the background, would you delete my find log?  (I'll tell you, if you did, I wouldn't be in contact with you - I'd go straight to HQ to get my log reintstated as in my experience trying to reason with such COs goes nowhere)

Edited June 19, 2019 by funkymunkyzone

[+colleda]

19 hours ago, kd0bik said:

If Karl Malden had been a geocacher we wouldn't have this issue as he would remind everyone not to leave home without a pen.  Of course, I've just dated myself as most in the younger crowd won't know who Karl Malden is or the reference I'm making.  ?  
 

I've just been reminded that I'm no longer a spring chicken. I remember the ads on OZ TV.

[+GO Geiger]

16 hours ago, niraD said:

Even when I've been in groups where we didn't use an impromptu team name to sign all the logs, we have had different people signing the logs of different caches. So in one cache, all the names appear in one order, written with one person's handwriting, and in another cache, all the names appear in a different order, written in another person's handwriting. This is just a normal part of group caching.

In my case, even caching solo, I can use multiple different writing implements throughout a long day of caching (I just grab whatever pen comes to hand before jumping out of the car or, if I have the forethought to have a pocket full of pens, it's whichever one comes to hand).  But, also, my handwriting is such that no two signatures look quite the same - then add in the difference between trying to sign a wet film canister log while balancing on a tree branch vs. signing while sitting on a park bench.  (I'm really starting to wish I wasn't so cheap and would splurge on a stamp, now.)

[+bflentje]

The entire notion of a stamp being too large is just hogwash anyway. I still remember the days when we used an entire page, or pages, to "write about our adventure", as being the task of signing the log.

[+The Jester]

1 hour ago, bflentje said:

The entire notion of a stamp being too large is just hogwash anyway. I still remember the days when we used an entire page, or pages, to "write about our adventure", as being the task of signing the log.

I agree.  I have different stamps for different size logsheets/books.  I've thought about cutting one from a pencil eraser for nano logs...

[+NYPaddleCacher]

21 hours ago, The Jester said:

I agree.  I have different stamps for different size logsheets/books.  I've thought about cutting one from a pencil eraser for nano logs...

 

If you're going to cut a stamp from a pencil, why not just use the pencil to sign the log?

[+TeamRabbitRun]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 10:39 AM, kunarion said:

 

But one other thing I "don't have" is my hiking stick... "don't need that, the cache is just 30 feet from the curb!"... and routinely have to go get the hiking stick because the pine straw and leaves are hiding the container too well.  Since I now try to always bring that, I could design a compartment in that stick for an emergency pen.  Or two.

 

The stick I use most is made from a carbon fiber golf club shaft.  I'm thinking I can drill down through the handle for a hollow space to fit a decent writing utensil.  If I do that, I'll post a picture.

 

 

Naw, stick with its original form.
Add a ball point pen mechanism so that when you either twist the bottom end of the hiking stick or press a little button way up on the top end a ball-point comes out of the bottom!

THAT'S innovation!

[+The Jester]

On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 9:24 AM, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

If you're going to cut a stamp from a pencil, why not just use the pencil to sign the log?

Because the pencil isn't sharpened?  Pencil writing tends to blur on cache logs with all the handling they get?  Mainly because I can't draw that well - especially in the field - and I like the Jester figure of my large stamp, the Jester head & hat of the small stamp and want a tiny Jester hat for really small logs. 

[Ageleni]

On 6/17/2019 at 2:35 AM, Goldenwattle said:

Once when I forgot my pen (rare event) I used a lump of charcoal to sign with.

 

I found myself geocaching unexpectedly one day with no pen to be found in the car.  I used lipstick instead!  (Didn't do the entire signature, just signed the first initial and made a note of it when logging the visit.)

[+Max and 99]

13 minutes ago, Ageleni said:

 

I found myself geocaching unexpectedly one day with no pen to be found in the car.  I used lipstick instead!  (Didn't do the entire signature, just signed the first initial and made a note of it when logging the visit.)

I hope it was a brand new lipstick!

[Ageleni]

3 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I hope it was a brand new lipstick!

 

No, but having been in the car for a while, it likely wasn't going to get used again anyway.

[+Max and 99]

1 minute ago, Ageleni said:

 

No, but having been in the car for a while, it likely wasn't going to get used again anyway.

But your lip cooties are on the cache log.

[Ageleni]

6 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

But your lip cooties are on the cache log.

 

Haha!  Geocaches are some of the nastiest things out there!  Touched by goodness knows how many people who have almost certainly not washed their hands recently, scattered in dirt or debris, shoved into armpits or held in teeth while the log is being signed, possibly pooped or peed on by birds and animals.  I think some old dead skin cells from a lipstick are the LEAST anyone would have to worry about!

[+Max and 99]

13 minutes ago, Ageleni said:

 

Haha!  Geocaches are some of the nastiest things out there!  Touched by goodness knows how many people who have almost certainly not washed their hands recently, scattered in dirt or debris, shoved into armpits or held in teeth while the log is being signed, possibly pooped or peed on by birds and animals.  I think some old dead skin cells from a lipstick are the LEAST anyone would have to worry about!

I can think of worse things than dead skin cells from a lipstick. ?

 

I'm sticking with Ewwwww. Using a lipstick to sign a log is like advertising that you left germs. Same with blood signatures. Ewww. 

[+Max and 99]

1 hour ago, Ageleni said:

 

I found myself geocaching unexpectedly one day with no pen to be found in the car.  I used lipstick instead!  (Didn't do the entire signature, just signed the first initial and made a note of it when logging the visit.)

In your defense, my husband said it wouldn't bother him at all. However, this is the same guy whose definition of a "clean house" was that visitors didn't have to step on poopy diapers. ?

 

In all seriousness, I realize that there are worse things I could be touching on a cache log, but I'd rather not know about them. Lipstick can't be ignored. 

[+VAVAPAM]

On 7/12/2019 at 11:54 PM, Max and 99 said:

But your lip cooties are on the cache log

 

[gif: Signal, milk shooting out his nose]

[+VAVAPAM]

On 6/19/2019 at 10:39 AM, kunarion said:

But one other thing I "don't have" is my hiking stick... "don't need that, the cache is just 30 feet from the curb!"... and routinely have to go get the hiking stick because the pine straw and leaves are hiding the container too well.  Since I now try to always bring that, I could design a compartment in that stick for an emergency pen.  Or two.

 

The stick I use most is made from a carbon fiber golf club shaft.  I'm thinking I can drill down through the handle for a hollow space to fit a decent writing utensil.  If I do that, I'll post a picture.

 

Then all I have to do is not forget the stick at the cache site, and I'm golden.

 

Bet those would sell like hotcakes at a Mega.