Replacing Full Log

[+kdhusky]

If I come across a cache belonging to someone else that has a full log, am I allowed to replace that log?  If so, what do I do with the full log when there is no room for both?

[+Goldenwattle]

I am hesitant to replace the log of someone I don't know. I likely wouldn't. But I might add a piece of paper without removing the old log. I have replaced logs for some people I know. I then either offer to post the old log to them, photograph the log and let them have that (for checking the logs), or I hand it to the person personally. So for me, I would mainly do this only for COs I know. And then not often; most times just letting them know the log needs replacement. Depends on the situation with me.

[+alain4s]

I never "replace" full logs. Instead, I send a photograph of all the signatures to the CO and add a new temporary sheet of paper to make the geocache last until the CO does their own maintenance. If there is no space for even a minuscule temporary log then I just send the photograph.

In my region, truly full logs are very rare. Most geocachers, here,  let the CO know the log will need replacement soon.

[+hal-an-tow]

Replace, no, not unless you have the permission of the cache owner. It isn't your property to take, and some C.O.s will be annoyed.

I would be, as it's my habit to post photos of the old  logs with my maintenance note (altho' I'm about two months behind with uploading my photos at the moment , must sort that out ...) I know several cache owners in my area well enough that I've asked them about this in the past, and some are O.K. with old logs being removed and disposed of,  others are happy for me to return full logs to them next time we meet up. But I'd never assume it was OK to take the old log.

 

Add to  , yes,  a temporary log can usually be placed alongside the old one.

Tthere are various places on the internet you can download common sizes to print out for free. The only real problem is if the cache is packed tight with the existing log, as magnetic nanos or tiny tubes tend to be, so there might be no spare space . In that case either overwrite an old faded log, squeeze a tiny signature in sideways somewhere,  or post a photo of the full log. And don't forget to add a 'needs maintenance' log.

 

It's also my habit when typing my logs, to mention if the log book or sheet is getting close to full : some C.O.s with more than a few caches may not bother reading most incoming logs , spending your time reading dozens of identical copy/paste logs of emoji heavy  drivel is a total waste of time, but hopefully sometimes my early warning about the situation might be read and enable them to plan a proactive maintenance visit  before the problem even happens.

[+hzoi]

1 hour ago, hal-an-tow said:

Add to  , yes,  a temporary log can usually be placed alongside the old one.

 

Concur.  I wouldn't normally take out a log, but adding an emergency sheet to one, sure.

 

1 hour ago, hal-an-tow said:

It's also my habit when typing my logs, to mention if the log book or sheet is getting close to full

 

This as well.

[+Touchstone]

If the log is truly full, and I'm unable to sign, I would post a DNF and  a NM and explain the situation.  A few cache owners that I know, don't take the time to read through the Find logs, particularly cache owners with many Hides.  A DNF/NM has a better chance of getting some notice than a Find, and hopefully provokes some action to take care of the cache.   The alternative is to continue to enable this sort of behavior and have a cache full of little scraps of soggy paper.

[+kunarion]

3 hours ago, kdhusky said:

If I come across a cache belonging to someone else that has a full log, am I allowed to replace that log?  If so, what do I do with the full log when there is no room for both?

 

As mentioned, you can usually squeeze at least a couple of initials in there.  I have some Micros with rolled-up log sheets, and "the log is full" and considered impossible to sign when the entire back of the sheet is blank.

 

But in the case of an actually full log, definitely mention that in a log, and NM is suitable.  Although you can often see a succession of "Log Is Full" logs with no resolution, cachers tend to say nothing until it's too late (how about "Couple more finds and it will be full, front and back" or something?), but if it's been a while since I last changed the log sheet on my Micro, I go change it without waiting for it to become an issue.  If a Cache Owner isn't doing that, it's a bad idea to prop it up.  I sometimes have a tiny spare log sheet in a baggie, to add if it fits, and if I feel like it.  But if it's an unmaintained cache, it might be time to let it go, and it certainly will be an unpleasant thing to find.  You could skip that one entirely.

 

Some Cache Owners like to keep old cache logs. 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by kunarion

[+IceColdUK]

51 minutes ago, Touchstone said:

If the log is truly full, and I'm unable to sign, I would post a DNF and  a NM and explain the situation.

 

I’ve never found a log that I couldn’t squeeze my initials onto!  NM though, definitely.

[+Max and 99]

In addition to what has already been posted,  I also recommend making sure all sides of the log are FULL before reporting it in your log. It happens. Twice I've done maintenance on a cache because "the log is full" only to discover that the back side was empty! ? 

[+kunarion]

2 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

 

I’ve never found a log that I couldn’t squeeze my initials onto!  NM though, definitely.

 

Here's one from a Nano, where the log roll had petrified into a rod.  I decided to attempt to "unroll" it and sign it anyway, and kind of managed that!  The once-and-done Nanos are the worst for being "full", pretty much the first finder gets to sign it, and the CO doesn't care if anyone signs it.  There's no "maintenance plan" at all on this cache style that actually requires constant maintenance.

 

 

 

But years ago, for one of the first Nanos I ever found, I custom-cut a fresh clean log sheet, rolled it up and placed it.  I even installed an O-ring (which breaks upon every Find).  I'm not doing that anymore.  Not gonna do it.  Na ga da.

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by kunarion

[+cerberus1]

3 hours ago, kdhusky said:

If I come across a cache belonging to someone else that has a full log, am I allowed to replace that log?  

If so, what do I do with the full log when there is no room for both?

 

I don't replace logs unless I have a cache on a watch and maintaining it for them a while (medical issues mostly).  

I'll add a Rite in Rain strip to a cache though, meant as help until the CO can do it themselves.  

No room for both,  I'll find a faded spot from earlier, and make a note where I entered my sig in the log.

 - Bisons and nanos see that a lot...

We act on logs, not waiting for a NM, so we realize some may do the same.

One of the advantages of taken your time, entering finds when home, is you can view a couple caches the CO has and see how reliable they are in communication and maintenance. 

This helps decide if a "log full" addition is good enough, or you'll need to log a NM with your Found It.

 

Like Max and 99, we used to get "log full" added to Found It logs (few people leave NMs...)  and find that the back of the entire log book wasn't touched.

 -  Even a rolled-up piece of paper has another side ...  

[+coachstahly]

Apparently I'm in the minority here, as I will replace the log for the CO and mention that I still have the log if the CO wishes to either receive it (via mail or in person) or have me take a picture of all the signatures and send it to them.  Once I get home, I also send them an email and a message, letting them know I have the log and will do what they ask of me if they want it back or want photos of it.  I've done this probably about 50 times over the last 7 years or so (since I started carrying spare logs) and only once has a CO contacted me about their log.  I should add that if the container won't keep things dry, I won't do it.  I'll add a piece of paper (as others have mentioned) and file the NM, stating that the container isn't watertight, which is why I placed a temporary log in there and the cache needs a new container.

[+colleda]

9 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

 

I’ve never found a log that I couldn’t squeeze my initials onto!  NM though, definitely.

Same here. I'll NM it and if it continues to get "log full" logs with no CO response (usually over some months) I'll NA it.

[+dprovan]

On 6/7/2019 at 4:47 AM, kdhusky said:

If I come across a cache belonging to someone else that has a full log, am I allowed to replace that log?  If so, what do I do with the full log when there is no room for both?

Yes, you are allowed to replace the log if you have suitable paper. Take pictures of the full log, all sides, and attach them to your find log.

 

But it's not really your responsibility, so you don't have to. As you can see from the other responses, a lot of people don't, and I don't either. Worst case, I figure if the CO hasn't put in a fresh log, he doesn't care about signatures, so I don't worry about writing over the most faded one.

 

Don't listen to people talking about NMs and -- OMG! -- NAs. A full log isn't a big deal and doesn't significantly diminish the cache's value. Mentioning the full log in your find log is sufficient notification for the CO.

[+Max and 99]

If the log is soaked, completely damaged, covered in a slimy film, etc., I will replace the log and baggie without worrying about the CO getting mad. I'll let them know what I did. 

[+niraD]

On 6/7/2019 at 4:47 AM, kdhusky said:

If I come across a cache belonging to someone else that has a full log, am I allowed to replace that log?  If so, what do I do with the full log when there is no room for both?

I've never replaced a log. I wouldn't take the full log with me because it isn't my cache and it isn't my log.

 

Many times, I have added another log to a cache, and I carry extra logs in my geocaching kit. But I leave another log as a favor to the CO.

 

If the only issue is that the log is full, then leaving another log saves the CO a trip, and there is no need for a NM log.

 

If the log is unusable (e.g., wet, mushy, moldy), then leaving another log can tide the cache over until the CO deals with the real problem, but there is still a real problem that the CO needs to address. In that case, a NM log is also needed.

[+kdhusky]

Thank you all for your responses. I am pretty new to geocaching and needed clarification.  

[+Goldenwattle]

20 hours ago, dprovan said:

I figure if the CO hasn't put in a fresh log, he doesn't care about signatures

That's not necessarily true. It might mean that no-one (could be many people) had mentioned the log is full, and the CO doesn't know.