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pocket queries


seekerfamily

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Has anyone had any recent issues with pocket queries.  2 of the last 3 I have done are showing caches that I have already logged as not logged on the GPS (garmin colorado).  I went out yesterday to to a run of 85 caches - I had found about 1/2 of them 3 months ago.  Had a new pocket query that I downloaded yesterday - got there and it was showing most of the found caches as not found - did not show 1/2 of the not found at all.  Had 1000 downloaded and centered in the middle of the grouping.   Same thing happened 2 weeks ago - driving through a town I had done 30+ caches one year ago - all came up as not found.

 

Thanks,

Seekerfamily

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Have you checked the PQ settings? Have you tried loading the PQ in Basecamp/GSAK or other software to check the caches' status?

I have PQs running Monday through Thursday for years and have never noticed any founds to be included in my PQs when "I haven't found" is set.

 

 

Edited by on4bam
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16 hours ago, The A-Team said:

Check to make sure that you don't have some old PQ files on your device. If they used a different name, they wouldn't have been overwritten by your latest ones.

 

This.

 

Garmin GPSrs run their own databases, and sometimes they will hang onto old data if you haven't deleted the right file(s).  (And sometimes, even if you have.)

 

I always first delete the old GPX file(s) off my Garmin, then start up the Garmin BEFORE uploading the new GPX file(s) (so that it is forced to recognize that it has zero geocaches stored), THEN plug it back into the computer and load up the new GPX file(s). 

 

It not only keeps the Garmin from holding on to old caches, it also helps avoid corrupted data and crashes, which canhappen if you don't clear out the old data.

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2 hours ago, hzoi said:

This.

 

Garmin GPSrs run their own databases, and sometimes they will hang onto old data if you haven't deleted the right file(s).  (And sometimes, even if you have.)

 

I always first delete the old GPX file(s) off my Garmin, then start up the Garmin BEFORE uploading the new GPX file(s) (so that it is forced to recognize that it has zero geocaches stored), THEN plug it back into the computer and load up the new GPX file(s). 

 

It not only keeps the Garmin from holding on to old caches, it also helps avoid corrupted data and crashes, which canhappen if you don't clear out the old data.

Seriously? You do this song and dance every time you load new files? It amazes me what Garmin users are willing to put up with. When I was still using my PN-60, I'd leave old PQs around just in case I was in the area unexpectedly a year or two later and hadn't had a chance to grab a fresh PQ. No wonder I have so much trouble with my 66st. I'm used to a GPSr that doesn't require a lot of hand holding.

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3 hours ago, hzoi said:

 

This.

 

Garmin GPSrs run their own databases, and sometimes they will hang onto old data if you haven't deleted the right file(s).  (And sometimes, even if you have.)

 

I always first delete the old GPX file(s) off my Garmin, then start up the Garmin BEFORE uploading the new GPX file(s) (so that it is forced to recognize that it has zero geocaches stored), THEN plug it back into the computer and load up the new GPX file(s). 

 

It not only keeps the Garmin from holding on to old caches, it also helps avoid corrupted data and crashes, which canhappen if you don't clear out the old data.

 

I delete the old files, then install the new without restarting.  Could just over-write, but, nah.  Too many times I've arrived at a cache site and the file didn't get properly over-written (not just a Garmin thing, Windows is also a suspect).  But at any hint of a problem, my first plan would be that restart.  The Garmin may refresh its index and then work great.

 

And if you use both Pocket Queries and "Lists", the file naming convention is different for each.  It's good to delete all of those, and install fresh files.

 

The OP might also consider including Found caches rather than filtering them out of a PQ (which you can then slice and dice on the GPS as desired).  The Garmin GPS will try to use the most recent data when more than one data set exists.  I have plenty of space for files, and knowing where new caches are in relation to Found caches is helpful to me.  And knowing where all caches are, I may just squeeze a new cache into the area. :anicute:

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, dprovan said:

It amazes me what Garmin users are willing to put up with.

 

 

Meh.  The situation has greatly improved, but why tempt fate?  If there's a process that keeps things kosher, I may do that even though it's a little faster to not do that.  Plus, I don't forget how to "fix it" later, when I'm already doing the thing that fixes it.  :anicute:

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I connect my Oregon600 to the PC, delete the GGZ and POI files GSAK wrote the previous time and immediately  write a new GGZ file + POI files with the garminexport macro with GSAK. Never failed me since I have the Or600. Never failed with GPX files (same workflow) on my Colorado 300 either. On top of that I never "safely disconnect" any USB device. ?

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1 hour ago, on4bam said:

I connect my Oregon600 to the PC, delete the GGZ and POI files GSAK wrote the previous time and immediately  write a new GGZ file + POI files with the garminexport macro with GSAK. Never failed me since I have the Or600. Never failed with GPX files (same workflow) on my Colorado 300 either. On top of that I never "safely disconnect" any USB device. ?

 

Ooh, you're a daredevil.  You live life on the edge.  Sweet!  :grin:

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1 hour ago, kunarion said:

Meh.  The situation has greatly improved, but why tempt fate?  If there's a process that keeps things kosher, I may do that even though it's a little faster to not do that.  Plus, I don't forget how to "fix it" later, when I'm already doing the thing that fixes it.  :anicute:

As a new Garmin user, I just wish you guys had complained a little more instead of saying "it's always been that way" for who knows how many years. Anyway, now I have a better idea why no existing Garmin users see the weird behavior that plagues me where PQs disappear after a week. You guys don't leave any data older than a week on your units ever. I've gotten used to keeping old but still serviceable data on my DeLorme, so I'm having a hard time adjusting to caches evaporating.

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9 minutes ago, dprovan said:

As a new Garmin user, I just wish you guys had complained a little more instead of saying "it's always been that way" for who knows how many years. Anyway, now I have a better idea why no existing Garmin users see the weird behavior that plagues me where PQs disappear after a week. You guys don't leave any data older than a week on your units ever. I've gotten used to keeping old but still serviceable data on my DeLorme, so I'm having a hard time adjusting to caches evaporating.

 

I doubt it has to do with the age of the data. It may have to do with duplicate data though. On holiday I keep 1 or 2 GGZ files for 4 weeks and that doesn't create problems.

I must admit I never load PQs to the GPS, I load them in GSAK and only export what I need, be it a few 100 caches or 30000.

 

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2 hours ago, dprovan said:

Anyway, now I have a better idea why no existing Garmin users see the weird behavior that plagues me where PQs disappear after a week.

 

I can't say that I've ever seen that. I've encountered the situation where the caches don't show up immediately after loading them, but not this.

 

So, you put some PQ files on the device and the caches show up, leave it for a week, and the GPSr then fails to see the caches despite no changes being made? Are you storing the files on the internal memory or on an SD card? It almost sounds like you have a flaky SD card.

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3 hours ago, on4bam said:

I must admit I never load PQs to the GPS, I load them in GSAK and only export what I need, be it a few 100 caches or 30000.

 

Are they individual GPX files, one per cache?  Plus parking waypoints?  I've never used GSAK for anything, and now I've begun dabbling in it and wondering about the process.  I've really liked loading a PQ or two in preparation for a cache run.  Keeps things organized.  But all loading all 30000 caches has its charms. :)

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6 hours ago, dprovan said:

As a new Garmin user, I just wish you guys had complained a little more instead of saying "it's always been that way" for who knows how many years. Anyway, now I have a better idea why no existing Garmin users see the weird behavior that plagues me where PQs disappear after a week. You guys don't leave any data older than a week on your units ever. I've gotten used to keeping old but still serviceable data on my DeLorme, so I'm having a hard time adjusting to caches evaporating.

 

With my Oregon 650T (unfortunately, discontinued), I've had nothing to complain about for years.  But I'm not a power user, don't change the map files (City Navigator North America SD card), and I delete a couple of PQs, download a couple new ones.  In concert with an iPhone 8, it's fine for a little cache run on a weekend.

 

I don't use "eject", but I let Windows sit and finish closing the files.  I don't like the cheesy little spring clip that holds the Micro SD card, so my plan is to unclip it as infrequently as possible.  Maybe my process kind of works around some of the gotchas that happen to others.

 

The only issue I've had recently is I lost touch control during a heavy downpour.  The gigantic drops of rain were "controlling" the screen.  So, no more rainstorm Geocaching.  Oh, well. :rolleyes:

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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I've used PQs on my Garmin for years without ever seeing any of this weird stuff.  I leave PQs sometimes for months without deleting them, but usually delete before updating.  The only real problem where I "lost" caches came about because I was loading them only on the SD card and I guess it died.  Got a new SD card and no more problems.  But now I usually load the PQs on both the SD card and the Garmin's own storage.

 

I did have an issue a while ago where some of my own caches didn't show up, but thanks to help I received here in the forums I learned that they were showing as "Found" caches because I had put logged NMs on them and the Garmin interpreted NM as meaning Found.  A little weird I think, but not like the stuff described here.

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6 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

Are they individual GPX files, one per cache?  Plus parking waypoints?  I've never used GSAK for anything, and now I've begun dabbling in it and wondering about the process.  I've really liked loading a PQ or two in preparation for a cache run.  Keeps things organized.  But all loading all 30000 caches has its charms. :)

No, no individual caches. I make sure all caches are in GSAK and for  the ones I want to do I set the user flag. When I prepare for a caching day I hit F8 (filter userflag is set) and run the garminexport macro. This writes the GGZ file and separate POI files for parking, Virtual,, Physical, final.... waypoints.

When going on holiday I don't take my laptop anymore so I load all caches for the areas we'll visit (a few years ago I loaded all caches, about 30000, for Denmark as we drove around the whole country) . To make sure I don't go after archived/disabled caches I update the database (in GDAK I have my GSAK database)  when possible over hotel/B&B WiFi . I also log from GDAK using the API.

This workflow works best for me, YMMV.

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43 minutes ago, on4bam said:

No, no individual caches. I make sure all caches are in GSAK and for  the ones I want to do I set the user flag. When I prepare for a caching day I hit F8 (filter userflag is set) and run the garminexport macro. This writes the GGZ file and separate POI files for parking, Virtual,, Physical, final.... waypoints.

When going on holiday I don't take my laptop anymore so I load all caches for the areas we'll visit (a few years ago I loaded all caches, about 30000, for Denmark as we drove around the whole country) . To make sure I don't go after archived/disabled caches I update the database (in GDAK I have my GSAK database)  when possible over hotel/B&B WiFi . I also log from GDAK using the API.

This workflow works best for me, YMMV.

 

Cool! :D

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3 hours ago, on4bam said:

No, no individual caches. I make sure all caches are in GSAK and for  the ones I want to do I set the user flag. When I prepare for a caching day I hit F8 (filter userflag is set) and run the garminexport macro. This writes the GGZ file and separate POI files for parking, Virtual,, Physical, final.... waypoints.

FWIW that's basically what I do since 4 years with my Oregon 600 and so far I never felt the need to first manually delete the old files but I always let GSAK overwrite them.

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On 6/4/2019 at 8:57 AM, dprovan said:

Seriously? You do this song and dance every time you load new files?

I don't. Most Garmin users probably don't. Because Garmin units do check each GPX file and compare it to the last time that file was indexed. This is why, after loading 10 fresh pocket queries, it may take a minute to boot up, but the next time it doesn't. You can safely overwrite a PQ with a new file of the same name. You can do the same with a GSAK or iCaching export. If you delete files first and you are a Mac user, then you have to remember to empty the trash before disconnecting. But overwriting simply overwrites, Windows, Linux, or Mac.

Now, the OP's situation is rather interesting. If the cache was marked Found on the GPS, as long as the field notes haven't been deleted, the GPS will still recognize that cache as found, regardless of the state of the GPX file. If the field notes (geocache_visits.txt) has been deleted, and the original gpx file has not, then a found cache may revert to unfound. And if this GPX file is different than the pocket query - maybe from a list, or another pocket query, or a single cache download - Garmin may index this file first, keeping the old data and skip the newer data in the PQ file of interest. And that could be one way that a few finds might appear as unfound on the GPS. But again, only if the field notes file has been deleted, or the cache was never marked found on the GPS, or it was marked unattempted after it was found. Because, as far as I have tested, the GPX file does not get altered by the GPS when logging geocaches.

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On 6/3/2019 at 7:11 PM, seekerfamily said:

I went out yesterday to to a run of 85 caches - I had found about 1/2 of them 3 months ago.  Had a new pocket query that I downloaded yesterday - got there and it was showing most of the found caches as not found - did not show 1/2 of the not found at all.

I have no further explanation as were already posted but just in case you're not aware of it: When loading new GPX/GZZ files you might want to exclude your found caches. While I can imagine some situations where it is handy to see previously found caches (also in the field) but at least I'm much preferring to exclude my already found caches.

 

5 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

If the cache was marked Found on the GPS, as long as the field notes haven't been deleted, the GPS will still recognize that cache as found, regardless of the state of the GPX file.

Just to nitpick :P: With my procedure of removing found caches from new GPX/GZZ files the GPSr never shows those caches even when they are still in the geocache_visit.txt file.

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On 6/4/2019 at 1:06 PM, The A-Team said:

So, you put some PQ files on the device and the caches show up, leave it for a week, and the GPSr then fails to see the caches despite no changes being made? Are you storing the files on the internal memory or on an SD card? It almost sounds like you have a flaky SD card.

It's very regular. Caches from week old PQs disappear. I haven't left the unit doing nothing at all, since I do go geocaching. The GPX files are on the internal memory, not the SD card, but it's so consistent, I can't believe it's a hardware problem. It's actually hard to believe it's a software problem. For all the world, it looks like a "feature".

 

23 hours ago, Hynz said:

While I can imagine some situations where it is handy to see previously found caches (also in the field) but at least I'm much preferring to exclude my already found caches. 

On DeLormes, found caches are shown on the map, but not in the list (unless you ask for them). With the foolish consistency of my 66st that has a single, uniform filter for caches no matter where they're being displayed, I can see how you'd prefer not bothering with the ones you've found already. I very rarely change the filter so I can see them.

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6 hours ago, dprovan said:

It's very regular. Caches from week old PQs disappear. I haven't left the unit doing nothing at all, since I do go geocaching. The GPX files are on the internal memory, not the SD card, but it's so consistent, I can't believe it's a hardware problem. It's actually hard to believe it's a software problem. For all the world, it looks like a "feature".

 

If you want to learn how to view "disappearing" caches, it would be good to start a thread, or read some of the many threads on that exact subject.

 

1. “Find” a cache, and it can be automatically filtered from the main list. That tends to be the factory default.

2. Load a GPX file with the same file name as the old file, and only the new caches are listed.

3. If you are more than 60 miles from a cache, the cache may not be automatically listed. It's shown on the map, but its information is unavailable until its icon is in view.

 

It's important to note that a Garmin's "Geocaching" function arrives from the factory not set up for Geocaching.  I've owned 3 different models, and I've had to make drastic changes to make them useful, including the removal of the "Geocaching Dashboard", replacing it with a (four) Small Fields dashboard, at least on the Map and Compass screens.

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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10 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

If you want to learn how to view "disappearing" caches, it would be good to start a thread, or read some of the many threads on that exact subject.

 

1. “Find” a cache, and it can be automatically filtered from the main list. That tends to be the factory default.

2. Load a GPX file with the same file name as the old file, and only the new caches are listed.

3. If you are more than 60 miles from a cache, the cache may not be automatically listed. It's shown on the map, but its information is unavailable until its icon is in view.

 

It's important to note that a Garmin's "Geocaching" function arrives from the factory not set up for Geocaching.  I've owned 3 different models, and I've had to make drastic changes to make them useful, including the removal of the "Geocaching Dashboard", replacing it with a (four) Small Fields dashboard, at least on the Map and Compass screens.

I've figured all that out pretty much, no thanks to the unit or its documentation. None of that is relevant. I first discovered this when on vacation. I downloaded the PQs for the area I wanted to be, then I woke up 7 days later without having connected the 66st to anything in the meantime, turned on the 66st, and all the caches for that area had disappeared. No change in configuration or filters or location. Caches there, happy as clams, when I turned it off the day before. Caches gone the next morning when I turned it back on. Imagine my surprise! Since then I've run various tests to convince myself that it's consistent with PQs dated over a week before being skipped when the unit scans the GPX directory at start up.

 

I did start a thread over on GPSrchive. My impression is that no one believes me, but I'm also suspecting Garmin users don't use PQs this way. In particular, most appear to wipe out old PQs whenever they download new ones, so they're not expecting PQs to be long lived. If they use PQs at all.

 

Anyway, thanks for the ideas.

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35 minutes ago, dprovan said:

I've figured all that out pretty much, no thanks to the unit or its documentation. None of that is relevant. I first discovered this when on vacation. I downloaded the PQs for the area I wanted to be, then I woke up 7 days later without having connected the 66st to anything in the meantime, turned on the 66st, and all the caches for that area had disappeared. No change in configuration or filters or location. Caches there, happy as clams, when I turned it off the day before. Caches gone the next morning when I turned it back on. Imagine my surprise! Since then I've run various tests to convince myself that it's consistent with PQs dated over a week before being skipped when the unit scans the GPX directory at start up.

 

I did start a thread over on GPSrchive. My impression is that no one believes me, but I'm also suspecting Garmin users don't use PQs this way. In particular, most appear to wipe out old PQs whenever they download new ones, so they're not expecting PQs to be long lived. If they use PQs at all.

 

Anyway, thanks for the ideas.

 

Garmin and Geocaching.com have a weird relationship where one won’t say much about the other’s product and yet they rely on us (the end users) to buy both.

 

Your Garmin talks to WiFi to automatically update cache info.  Pocket Queries expire in 7 days.  I wonder if there’s some setting or process that causes PQs to be wiped out.  

 

Until these WiFi Garmins, we could be confident that waypoints such as caches are never deleted by the device.  Things have changed.

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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15 hours ago, kunarion said:

Garmin and Geocaching.com have a weird relationship where one won’t say much about the other’s product and yet they rely on us (the end users) to buy both.

 

Your Garmin talks to WiFi to automatically update cache info.  Pocket Queries expire in 7 days.  I wonder if there’s some setting or process that causes PQs to be wiped out.  

 

Until these WiFi Garmins, we could be confident that waypoints such as caches are never deleted by the device.  Things have changed.

I'm not sure what your point is. Is that supposed to make me feel better? Anyway, all I'm really asking for at this point is the odd behavior be documented so I can understand it. Garmin doing that has nothing to do with Geocaching.com. Instead, I can't even find out if it's a feature. It certainly makes me wish I still had a choice of companies to deal with.

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On 6/4/2019 at 2:16 PM, on4bam said:

I must admit I never load PQs to the GPS, I load them in GSAK and only export what I need, be it a few 100 caches or 30000.

 

I won't say that I never copy the results of a Pocket Query directly to a GPS,   but I've always preferred using a waypoint manager such as GSAK, Easy/Expert GPS, Basecamp, or other waypoint manager to,  you know, manage  a collection of waypoints.  Although there are few geocachers that do it, a waypoint manager will also collect any waypoints captured on a GPS (for example, a tracklog or data that can be used in open street maps).  

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We use Garmin 650s and have never seen this issue... but we normally load the same PQ every week or so anyway.  (BTW, I usually just copy over the GPX file directly using Windows Explorer without deleting the previous files on the device and have never had a problem.)

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The issue I had was in an area that I only have 1 PQ so no overlap of older and newer PQ that may contain different info.  I delete any PQ file when replacing with a new one.  I delete the old found it and logged files off the garmin after downloading to drafts.   I have not had any issues the last 2 weeks,  try to get out at least once weekly - different areas each time - download about 500 to 1000 caches for the general location I will be going to (usually only get 15-30 caches in a day but like to dream big).  Thanks for all the replys.   Will watch for any new issues and likely erase all older PQ still stored on the garmin. 

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17 minutes ago, seekerfamily said:

download about 500 to 1000 caches for the general location I will be going to (usually only get 15-30 caches in a day but like to dream big). 

You're not alone. Many of us keep thousands of geocaches on our devices at all times, covering a broad area, not necessarily to dream big, but because we go out, grab a cache or two or 10, and next week go to a new location. But rather than pick and choose what areas to load each week, we just keep a larger area around home on the device and updated, choosing to add new areas when they are farther away (those trips take more advanced planning). Since I have a GPS with no geocache limit, my current "home range" is 120 mile radius and consists of around 9000 geocaches.

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