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CdnNinja

Garmin GPSmaps 62s vs Garmin Oregon 600

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My apologies for creating another thread about which GPS unit to buy. Which unit would you folks buy? They're both the same price with the exception of the 600 being used and the 62s being new.

 

A huge deciding factor would be ease of use and accuracy, especially on a trail or forest. I can't seem to figure out which one is the better buy from google searches.

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62, buttons.  600 touch screen.

62 2.6" screen, 160 x 240 pixels, 600 3" screen 240 x 400 (22% larger screen, 2.5 times the number of pixels, much higher resolution).

 

Otherwise, they are the same and will perform the same with basically the same software.

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Oregon has twice ? the pixels as the 62s. It's a higher resolution screen. Still, the user customizable buttons along with user defined shortcuts are the best features of the Oregon. Hands down.

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Thank you all for your responses and help! Any idea about reception quality of the two? Does the 600 have better satellite reception than the 62s?

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Satellite reception should be about the same.

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2 hours ago, CdnNinja said:

Thank you all for your responses and help! Any idea about reception quality of the two? Does the 600 have better satellite reception than the 62s?

 

The Oregon 6x0 can make use of GLONASS satellites, which means more satellites to choose from when calculating actual position. The GPSMAP 62 can not. This suggest the Oregon 6x0 can not only calculate actual position with more accuracy, but may also be able to do so in conditions the GPSMAP 62 can not.

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2 hours ago, Red90 said:

Satellite reception should be about the same.

 

Except for the fact that the Oregon 6x0 has twice as many satellite signals to choose from 8^)

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Can you take an Oregon outside face the display upward, turn it on, go to sat view, get a position,

then turn it upside down with the display facing the ground and looking up at it, tell what happens?

 

I’d be interested because all of the “all screen” units use a ceramic chip antenna pointed directly at the ground.

The displays have a foil backing that would block any signal directly overhead, which is also where the chip antenna’s highest gain is.

 

With all of the birds in the sky nowadays, it might be beneficial to block those directly overhead. I don’t know.

It would also be interesting to compare them in some canyon environment where both struggle to get any signal at all.

 

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Canyon environments are certainly tricky with the Oregon. I have, on occasion, had it locate me on the opposite side of the river. But the fact that it still has me in the bottom of the canyon, within 100 feet or so of my actual position. Remember, these aren't survey devices, they're for navigation, and you can still navigate just fine so long as you understand how error works and that you need to look up once in a while to actually verify your surroundings.

With the exception of slot canyons, the issue isn't so much lack of satellites in view but a phenomenon known as multipath, where signal from the satellite bounces off of the canyon walls, then hits your receiver making it seem as though you are further from the satellite than you actually are.

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3 hours ago, _Art_ said:

Can you take an Oregon outside face the display upward, turn it on, go to sat view, get a position,

then turn it upside down with the display facing the ground and looking up at it, tell what happens?

 

I’d be interested because all of the “all screen” units use a ceramic chip antenna pointed directly at the ground.

The displays have a foil backing that would block any signal directly overhead, which is also where the chip antenna’s highest gain is.

 

The original Oregon/Dakota units had this 'issue' - However, to be perfectly fair (and honest) - how often does one use the GPSr with the screen inverted (facing toward the ground)?

 

Later units use a redesigned 'patch' antenna that has equal access to the sky regardless of GPSr orientation.

 

3 hours ago, _Art_ said:

With all of the birds in the sky nowadays, it might be beneficial to block those directly overhead. I don’t know.

The displays have a foil backing that would block any signal directly overhead, which is also where the chip antenna’s highest gain is.

With all of the birds in the sky nowadays, it might be beneficial to block those directly overhead. I don’t know.

 

Having multiple satellites directly overhead is great for determining elevation, however it does very little for horizontal accuracy.

 

3 hours ago, _Art_ said:

It would also be interesting to compare them in some canyon environment where both struggle to get any signal at all.

 

That would but a fun academic study....

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

The original Oregon/Dakota units had this 'issue' - However, to be perfectly fair (and honest) - how often does one use the GPSr with the screen inverted (facing toward the ground)?

 

 

That’s the whole point though. With the display facing up, as you’d normally use it, the antenna faces the ground, and all signals it sees are reflected from the ground,

which would add another few wavelengths to the signal it receives from any satellite. Some vehicle trackers also do this out of necessity, because the car is above them.

 

I can’t find current model PCBs, but these are Oregon 650 & Montanna 600.

 

Screen Shot 2019-05-25 at 10.51.49 am.png

Screen Shot 2019-05-25 at 10.56.18 am.png

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Ah I see.. weedy antenna, but probably better overall. I assume there’s some bezel outside of the screen to sit that under.

 

Thanks for the pic. I couldn’t find anything new.

 

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On 5/23/2019 at 8:16 AM, Atlas Cached said:

 

Except for the fact that the Oregon 6x0 has twice as many satellite signals to choose from 8^)

 

In my experience that does not help.  The GLONASS system seems to be less accurate, so the end combination is not a step up.  I run a mapping project and get to see dozens of tracks of the same trails from different devices.  There is no measurable difference in signal quality between any modern Garmin GPS.

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4 minutes ago, Red90 said:

 

In my experience that does not help.  The GLONASS system seems to be less accurate, so the end combination is not a step up.  I run a mapping project and get to see dozens of tracks of the same trails from different devices.  There is no measurable difference in signal quality between any modern Garmin GPS.

 

Accuracy or signal quality is irrelevant where there is limited or no signal availability.

 

Certainly, under ideal conditions where GPS signals alone are plentiful and optimally located, additional signals from system such as GLONASS or GALILEO are of little or no benefit.

 

However, in many real life conditions (outside of a laboratory), where sight-lines to GPS satellites are limited or simply unavailable, the additional signals from GLONASS/GALILEO result in a more accurate positioning calculation where potentially one could not even be determined without them.

 

This is the benefit of having the capability to access more than one satellite navigation system.

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Thanks.  I'm well aware of the potential benefits. What I'm telling you is that real life comparisons do not show that those potential benefits results in actual ones.  As already stated, I get to compare many track logs from many devices.  These are not tracks on trails in optimal conditions.  These are is heavy forest cover on steep mountains and in deep valleys.  The multi system receivers are not providing better quality tracks.  If you get into the nit picky details, you can show that they are a little bit worse.  It is quite apparent when caching.  The location accuracy during a find is on average worse with GLONASS turned on.

 

One thing that I do know is that all Garmin handhelds starting at the Colorado occasionally go completely off every now and then (without the unit knowing it) and it only seems to happen when they can't connect to a WAAS satellite.  There is a bug in the software that has been carried through since that device that has never been rectified.

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57 minutes ago, Red90 said:

One thing that I do know is that all Garmin handhelds starting at the Colorado occasionally go completely off every now and then (without the unit knowing it) and it only seems to happen when they can't connect to a WAAS satellite.  There is a bug in the software that has been carried through since that device that has never been rectified.

 

I would love to hear more about this, either here or privately, please.

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Posted (edited)

Here are eight tracklogs of the same hike over seven years.  They are all my own to avoid any argument over how they were recorded.  Half are with a Colorado, half with a 64S.  In the spots where you see the track wander off, the GPS is still showing a good EPE.  Rebooting fixes the problem, or it just wanders back eventually.  The red one was a reboot.

 

Capture.thumb.JPG.5ffbae1b919531001c435b6bfa593fdb.JPG

 

This used to be a well known and well discussed issue that started following one of the Colorado firmware updates.  You can see it happen on all newer units once in awhile.

 

 

Edited by Red90

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4 hours ago, Red90 said:

Here are eight tracklogs of the same hike over seven years.  They are all my own to avoid any argument over how they were recorded.  Half are with a Colorado, half with a 64S.  In the spots where you see the track wander off, the GPS is still showing a good EPE.  Rebooting fixes the problem, or it just wanders back eventually.  The red one was a reboot.

 

Capture.thumb.JPG.5ffbae1b919531001c435b6bfa593fdb.JPG

 

This used to be a well known and well discussed issue that started following one of the Colorado firmware updates.  You can see it happen on all newer units once in awhile.

 

 

 

You indicated this phenomenon was related to the GPSr being unable to connect to a WAAS satellite?

 

 

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19 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

You indicated this phenomenon was related to the GPSr being unable to connect to a WAAS satellite?

 

Whenever I've noticed it happening in the field, there has not been a WAAS lock.  For that reason, it is more common on north facing slopes.  At this latitude, you need a clear view to the south to see a geosynchonous satellite.  It happens less often with the 64S, but it still happens.  The position will be 100 meters off, but the unit says it has an EPE of 10 meters and it is connected to a dozen satellites.  Like I said, anyone that has been around will remember when this started to happen.  There was a lot of discussion on the issue.  It was improved and is thus fairly rare, but the original bug is still there.  The older units never did this.

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On 5/26/2019 at 10:22 AM, Red90 said:

This used to be a well known and well discussed issue that started following one of the Colorado firmware updates.  You can see it happen on all newer units once in awhile.

 

The word to search for is drift.

 

 

 

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The posters above have done a commendable job of answering the question actually asked, though perhaps off into the weeds for the needs of a typical geocacher. As the moderator, it's usually my goal to nudge people toward doing that and now I'm going to be difficult and nudge the question.

The arguments for touch vs. d-pad preferences have been well covered in this group many times and that's obviously the biggest difference. It's mostly personal preference.

However, you're buying behind the curve in all the cases listed. This may be intentional - perhaps you're buying used or with a very limited budget or something else not really said. The progression 62->64->66 and 600->700 with the Oregon already at two years old and the 62 from early in this decade. Garmin is pretty bad about effectively dropping support for units once they go out of manufacture and they become hard to repair. You're buying units without warranty and that have been dropped.

As long as you know that you're looking at 7-10 year old designs and you're OK with that, carry on. These are evolved products from earlier models and offhand can't think of any reason that a well maintained used one wouldn't be just fine for caching for some time to come.  Enjoy!

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On 5/24/2019 at 10:26 AM, Mineral2 said:

Canyon environments are certainly tricky with the Oregon. I have, on occasion, had it locate me on the opposite side of the river. But the fact that it still has me in the bottom of the canyon, within 100 feet or so of my actual position. Remember, these aren't survey devices, they're for navigation, and you can still navigate just fine so long as you understand how error works and that you need to look up once in a while to actually verify your surroundings.

With the exception of slot canyons, the issue isn't so much lack of satellites in view but a phenomenon known as multipath, where signal from the satellite bounces off of the canyon walls, then hits your receiver making it seem as though you are further from the satellite than you actually are.

Years ago we were caching in the cracks by Mono Lake, CA and the 62S did great.....when the crack closed to where I had to turn sideways to get through I would lose sats but as soon as it opened up a bit I would pick up again. Once at GZ I marked the location and while my wife stayed below I exited the crack and climbed on top and walked over until I was just above her ( about 90 feet ).........with an unobstructed view of the sky I had GZ at exactly the same place as when I was at the bottom. I can't say enough about the 62S and quad antenna.

As I've said elsewhere I now use the 78S as its the same as the 62S but in a better case.

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25 minutes ago, BAMBOOZLE said:

As I've said elsewhere I now use the 78S as its the same as the 62S but in a better case.

 

Have you been just as happy with the performance of the 78s compared to the 62s?

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Just now, Atlas Cached said:

 

Have you been just as happy with the performance of the 78s compared to the 62s?

Yes I have....its all I use now, my wife uses the 62S and they read pretty much the same as you would expect. I've always used units with the buttons on the bottom going back to the Magellan Platinum so at first the 78S seemed awkward but in no time at all I began liking the buttons better. Seems all new firmware is buggy so when a 62S ver came out that that performed great I put it on all 3 62S units and saved a copy. When I bought the 78S rather than taking a chance I replaced the firmware with the one I use on the 62S ( I think 6.8 )

Once in a great while I will turn it on ( I may have just been using it a few min earlier ) and it will do a re-set...don't know why.......I tweak my settings and its fine. I use GSAK and from time to time a file glitch will cause me to do a re-boot of a locked up unit ( happens with ALL my units ).....a good friend with a 62S running the exact firmware and map has NEVER had a lock up.....they only download direct from GC.com ??

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, BAMBOOZLE said:

Yes I have....its all I use now, my wife uses the 62S and they read pretty much the same as you would expect. I've always used units with the buttons on the bottom going back to the Magellan Platinum so at first the 78S seemed awkward but in no time at all I began liking the buttons better. Seems all new firmware is buggy so when a 62S ver came out that that performed great I put it on all 3 62S units and saved a copy. When I bought the 78S rather than taking a chance I replaced the firmware with the one I use on the 62S (I think 6.8)

 

The GPSMAP 62 and GPSMAP 78 use the exact same firmware file (*.gcd) - That is to say, a single firmware is used for both units.

 

1 hour ago, BAMBOOZLE said:

Once in a great while I will turn it on ( I may have just been using it a few min earlier ) and it will do a re-set...don't know why.......I tweak my settings and its fine. I use GSAK and from time to time a file glitch will cause me to do a re-boot of a locked up unit ( happens with ALL my units ).....a good friend with a 62S running the exact firmware and map has NEVER had a lock up.....they only download direct from GC.com ??

 

Could be related to GSAK files. Especially since you know another user who uses the same hardware without modified GPX and never has any issues!

 

2 hours ago, BAMBOOZLE said:

I can't say enough about the 62S and quad antenna. As I've said elsewhere I now use the 78S as its the same as the 62S but in a better case.

 

You may have been bamboozled!

 

The GPSMAP 78 series is not the same as the GPSMAP 62 series.

The much loved quad-helix antenna found in the GPSMAP 62 series is not present in the GPSMAP 78 series. 

The GPSMAP 78 series uses a ceramic patch antenna:

 

929478497_GPSMAP62CircuitBoard03360x.png.274fb7b3e36c7b80babdcb462c77c775.png   830689855_GPSMAP78scCircuitBoard03400x.png.4a2b23a5ac39809713f3b32f883c8d53.png

 

 

 

Edited by Atlas Cached

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37 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

 

The GPSMAP 62 and GPSMAP 78 use the exact same firmware file (*.gcd) - That is to say, a single firmware is used for both units.

 

 

Could be related to GSAK files. Especially since you know another user who uses the same hardware without modified GPX and never has any issues!

 

 

You may have been bamboozled!

 

The GPSMAP 78 series is not the same as the GPSMAP 62 series.

The much loved quad-helix antenna found in the GPSMAP 62 series is not present in the GPSMAP 78 series. 

The GPSMAP 78 series uses a ceramic patch antenna:

 

830689855_GPSMAP78scCircuitBoard03400x.png.4a2b23a5ac39809713f3b32f883c8d53.png

 

 

You are correct.....its the 60 series that has the quad and it was the 62S I took back into the crack ( didn't have the 78S then ) ......and in that same situation I would want the 62S.

That said on an extensive trip out west along with the forest and swamps of LA and Fl the 78 has matched up well with the 62........I guess you could say a 78 is a 62 minus the quad.

 

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I'm just happy to hear you find the Patch antenna in the 78 series functions equally well to the quad-helix in the 62 series!

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