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Jayeffel

Just interesting

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I found a cache the other week, one known for lack of good parking. Anyway, another cacher. had problems finding it and apparently send a message to me about it using the Geocaching message. I saw in my email he sent the message. It does not show up in the message box on Geocaching.I returned the message using that message box, don't know if he got it since there is no response there yet. This was transacted yesterday.

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Are you sure that it was sent through the Message Center and not through the site's email functionality?

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Posted (edited)

No I looked at several places and detected no message other then via email. It did I believe say something about coming from Geocaching. I can look more!

Here is what showed on my screen, (if it actually does copy and paste):

 

GEO] Buffalo Bob contacting Jayeffel from Geocaching.com

 
 
 
 
 
profile_mask_2x.png
 
Trash
x

Geocaching <noreply@geocaching.com>

Sun, May 19, 10:13 AM (1 day ago)
 
 
cleardot.gif
cleardot.gif
to me
cleardot.gif
 
 
 
 
 
Geocaching
Looking for "To Hard". Guardrail outside Shippensburg. Seems like it shouldn't be that hard. What am I missing?

User's Profile: https://coord.info/PRHWKZ

------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by Jayeffel

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2 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

No I looked at several places and detected no message other then via email. It did I believe say something about coming from Geocaching. I can look more!

 

Do you still have the original email? You sould be able to see the actual source from the subject.

 

E-mail type: "[GEO] The Flying Dutchmen contacting arisoft from Geocaching.com"

 

Message Center type: ""Geocaching: arisoft, you have a new message from Yassar!"

 

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I do know who it was from. Just curious how it showed up in email and not Geocaching.com. No big deal in any respect.😊

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12 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

[GEO] Buffalo Bob contacting Jayeffel from Geocaching.com

 

As arisoft says, this has come from a direct email, rather than an email notification of a new message from the message centre.

 

 

3C673752-814E-43B1-B1FD-EF84BCB8DBBE.jpeg

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Ok, I did respond using Geocaching.com. Oh well.

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1 hour ago, Jayeffel said:

Ok, I did respond using Geocaching.com. Oh well.

 

Just an fyi: some players won't use the message center, only email. I

 

Like you, I recently received an email notification asking for help on my cache, but then couldn't find it on the Messaging Center. It took me a minute to realize that the message was emailed to me.

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7 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Just an fyi: some players won't use the message center, only email.

 

The problem is that they have not always opted out from the Message Center properly. There is an option to make it always using email for communication but it is not on by default which leads to frustration.

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8 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

Just an fyi: some players won't use the message center, only email.

 

Correct. I take it one further and switched off e-mail notifications for the MC and have a script that removes MC from my profile page. The only time I see that there's a message in the MC is when I visit my profile page on my tablet and that almost never happens. I've found messages there that were send months before.

I have a warning not to use MC in big red letters on my profile so people know.

 

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1 hour ago, on4bam said:

I have a warning not to use MC in big red letters on my profile so people know.

 

You have done just the opposite what is correct way to opt out from the Message center. Instead of solving your problem proper way you have created a new problem.

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10 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

You have done just the opposite what is correct way to opt out from the Message center. Instead of solving your problem proper way you have created a new problem.

There is no correct way.  There should be an option to "opt-out" in a way that someone trying to send something via the MC would get a message like "this user does not want to receive MC messages, use e-mail instead" but since GS wants to "appify" the website that won't happen.

BTW, using GClittlehelper a signature with "don't use the MC......" is automatically added when I send e-mails from the website. Nothing more I can do to totally ignore the MC.

 

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, on4bam said:

There is no correct way.  There should be an option to "opt-out" in a way that someone trying to send something via the MC would get a message like "this user does not want to receive MC messages, use e-mail instead" but since GS wants to "appify" the website that won't happen.

 

I understand that you are not going to change your opinion.

 

These instruction are not for you but for them who want to know how to opt out Message center correctly.

 

Step 1:

 

step1.jpg.182051f5efd0c26b3e3d07e912a838c7.jpg

 

Step 2:

 

step2.jpg.ce188b60af64e345bc7be44ddfd574cb.jpg

step3.jpg.16056d0b4f11e7d1113ee07e56d6abc8.jpg

step4.jpg.92381abf442b35cf456a53b4ebf9353a.jpg

 

Step 3:

 

Use your email to receive and reply to messages with your desktop or mobile device. No need to open or use the Message center in any case.

 

Edited by arisoft
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I don't understand the aversion to using the messenger.  It keeps a nice record of your conversation for anytime in the future, you can reply back from your email, you don't have to reveal your email address, you can see your conversation in the app, etc.  It helps me keep my conversations organized.  I used to insist on using email but didn't want to reveal my email address to strangers so every time I wanted to continue a conversation I'd have to return to the website and start a new email with the "send email address" notice turned off.

 

I'm sure there are valid reasons for not wanting to use the messenger, I'm just saying that I've found it helpful.  I'm curious why people don't like it.

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1 minute ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I don't understand the aversion to using the messenger.  It keeps a nice record of your conversation for anytime in the future, you can reply back from your email, you don't have to reveal your email address, you can see your conversation in the app, etc.  It helps me keep my conversations organized.  I used to insist on using email but didn't want to reveal my email address to strangers so every time I wanted to continue a conversation I'd have to return to the website and start a new email with the "send email address" notice turned off.

 

I'm sure there are valid reasons for not wanting to use the messenger, I'm just saying that I've found it helpful.  I'm curious why people don't like it.

1. That's why there are "folders" in my IMAP account, it does just that.

2. I have a GC only email address so no one needs to have my "real" address

3. I don't use nor have "the" app, I use a GPS.

4. see #1

 

5. I'm not online when "in the field" but I can read my offline mails and if needed I can just switch on my mobile hotspot to send an email or look something up.

 

YMMV but when I'm out I don't want to be "connected".

 

 

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1 minute ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I'm curious why people don't like it.

 

I found the MC extremely difficult to use on my mobile phone. That's why I preferred the email option and it works pretty well.

 

5 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

It helps me keep my conversations organized.

 

Yes it does, but it does not have any search functions. I am using my email archive to find messages I have received from the MC a long time ago.

 

7 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

every time I wanted to continue a conversation I'd have to return to the website and start a new email

 

And if you forgot this, nothing warns you about replying to a black hole. At least the system should give you an error if there is no real recipient but there is nothing. This has happened many times until I remember why my message has not been notified.

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How does the Message Center comply with GDPR, since there is no way to delete old messages?

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Say hello to Bob from coach!  I found a few of his caches a few weeks ago.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, arisoft said:

Use your email to receive and reply to messages

 

I can't trust this to ever work properly, after finding a fairly serious bug (text truncation), reporting it of course, and observing how Groundspeak deals with bugs...

 

Edited by Viajero Perdido
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6 hours ago, arisoft said:

Step 3:

  

Use your email to receive and reply to messages with your desktop or mobile device. No need to open or use the Message center in any case.

 

Note that you have to have your email set up just the way Groundspeak wants it for this to work. If you have a geocaching-specific address that forwards to your real address, then this won't work, because your replies will come from your real address, not from your geocaching-specific address. I had to change my email settings on geocaching.com to make this work.

 

 

5 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I don't understand the aversion to using the messenger.[...] I'm curious why people don't like it.

 

Here you go:

Quote

It keeps a nice record of all your conversations with someone all mashed together for anytime in the future, you can reply back from your email if your email is configured the way the MC expects it to be configured, you don't have to reveal your email address, you can see all your conversations in the app, etc.  It helps me keeps my conversations disorganized, all mashed together with no subject lines and no ability to search.

 

The MC is fine for the same kind of communication that SMS texting is good for: short messages that won't be important a week from now. For more substantial communication, I prefer a real email system.

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4 minutes ago, niraD said:

 

Note that you have to have your email set up just the way Groundspeak wants it for this to work. If you have a geocaching-specific address that forwards to your real address, then this won't work, because your replies will come from your real address, not from your geocaching-specific address. I had to change my email settings on geocaching.com to make this work.

That's where "identities" come in. In K9mail (Android) the identity when replying is automatically chosen depending on the address a message was send too, In Pegasus Mail (Windows) I do that manually.

 

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3 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

I can't trust this to ever work properly, after finding a fairly serious bug (text truncation), reporting it of course, and observing how Groundspeak deals with bugs...

 

You can always send the email from the recipient's profile page if you don't trust the easy way.

 

4 hours ago, K13 said:

How does the Message Center comply with GDPR, since there is no way to delete old messages?

 

These are private messages. You can't delete your sent email either.

 

2 hours ago, niraD said:

If you have a geocaching-specific address that forwards to your real address, then this won't work

 

This is correct, but in this case the easy fix is to use the real address instead of the unnecessary secondary address as you have done.

 

 

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1 hour ago, arisoft said:

 

 

 

These are private messages. You can't delete your sent email either.

 

 

Groundspeak can't view my GC Message Center messages?

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24 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Groundspeak can't view my GC Message Center messages?

 

If you suspect a conspiracy you should note that even if you could "delete" your sent messages there is no proof that they would be deleted permanently.

 

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I'm just asking if they can view my messages. I assume they can.

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13 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

If you suspect a conspiracy you should note that even if you could "delete" your sent messages there is no proof that they would be deleted permanently.

 

I did catch your point. Thank you for that!

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12 hours ago, arisoft said:

These instruction are not for you but for them who want to know how to opt out Message center correctly.

<snip>

 

Just to be clear, there is no way to opt out of the Message Center. You can set things up such that you don't have to interact directly with it (as you showed), but it's still there. All you're doing is interacting with the MC by email.

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14 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I'm just asking if they can view my messages. I assume they can.

 

If things have been set up correctly, the content of the messages should be obfuscated or encrypted in the database to prevent even administrators from viewing it. However, even if this isn't the case, it would generally be a small number of system administrators that would have the necessary level of access, and those people are usually highly trusted to not poke around in that kind of thing unless absolutely necessary. As a sysadmin myself, I have "the keys to the castle" for my employer and some of our clients and could access a lot of sensitive data if I wanted to, but I'm trusted not to do so. And I don't.

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8 minutes ago, The A-Team said:

 

If things have been set up correctly, the content of the messages should be obfuscated or encrypted in the database to prevent even administrators from viewing it. However, even if this isn't the case, it would generally be a small number of system administrators that would have the necessary level of access, and those people are usually highly trusted to not poke around in that kind of thing unless absolutely necessary. As a sysadmin myself, I have "the keys to the castle" for my employer and some of our clients and could access a lot of sensitive data if I wanted to, but I'm trusted not to do so. And I don't.

OK. Thanks!

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31 minutes ago, The A-Team said:

Just to be clear, there is no way to opt out of the Message Center. You can set things up such that you don't have to interact directly with it (as you showed), but it's still there. All you're doing is interacting with the MC by email.

 

I am interacting with my email client program when I read my email. I don't buy your explanation :)

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I really like having the Message Center even though I very rarely use it in the field. Upwards of 95% of my communication through the website involves sending answers to Earthcaches and Virtuals. Having them all together by CO makes it easy to confirm what answers I sent and gives me clear proof the answers were sent. They can't bounce back, end up in spam, or vanish into the aether like an email. The CO can't intentionally or accidentally delete the email.

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13 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

I understand that you are not going to change your opinion.

 

These instruction are not for you but for them who want to know how to opt out Message center correctly.

 

Step 1:

 

step1.jpg.182051f5efd0c26b3e3d07e912a838c7.jpg

 

Step 2:

 

step2.jpg.ce188b60af64e345bc7be44ddfd574cb.jpg

step3.jpg.16056d0b4f11e7d1113ee07e56d6abc8.jpg

step4.jpg.92381abf442b35cf456a53b4ebf9353a.jpg

 

Step 3:

 

Use your email to receive and reply to messages with your desktop or mobile device. No need to open or use the Message center in any case.

 

That's exactly how mine is set up. Really don't understand the negativity towards the MC and I did read all threads when MC was introduced.

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On 5/21/2019 at 11:59 AM, arisoft said:

These instruction are not for you but for them who want to know how to opt out Message center correctly.

 

Step 1:

 

step1.jpg.182051f5efd0c26b3e3d07e912a838c7.jpg

 

Step 2:

 

step2.jpg.ce188b60af64e345bc7be44ddfd574cb.jpg

step3.jpg.16056d0b4f11e7d1113ee07e56d6abc8.jpg

step4.jpg.92381abf442b35cf456a53b4ebf9353a.jpg

 

Step 3:

 

Use your email to receive and reply to messages with your desktop or mobile device. No need to open or use the Message center in any case.

 

 

Steps 1 and 2 also work for anyone who wants to actively use the message center, too.  That's how mine is set up.

 

12 hours ago, colleda said:

Really don't understand the negativity towards the MC and I did read all threads when MC was introduced.

 

I don't either.

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20 hours ago, colleda said:

Really don't understand the negativity towards the MC and I did read all threads when MC was introduced.

 

  1. It was and remains buggy. See Viajero Perdido's post above about unwanted truncation and other discussions about missing messages, scrambled GC codes, platform incompatibility, and various other unexpected behaviour.
  2. It duplicated the existing email messaging system for minimal gain (ie. it can be used in the official app).
  3. HQ knows that it isn't fit for purpose. We know that they know this because the reviewers stated that it doesn't fit their needs and HQ allowed them to opt out of using it. Even though the reviewers' reasons are identical to the members', the members aren't allowed to opt out.
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16 hours ago, The A-Team said:

HQ knows that it isn't fit for purpose. We know that they know this because the reviewers stated that it doesn't fit their needs and HQ allowed them to opt out of using it. Even though the reviewers' reasons are identical to the members', the members aren't allowed to opt out

 

It seems to me Reviewers deal with a quantity and nature of geocaching messages far beyond what pretty much any non-Reviewer receives and sends.

 

For the needs of a typical geocacher contacting another typical geocacher, especially without revealing their email address, it seems quite adequate.

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16 hours ago, The A-Team said:

It duplicated the existing email messaging system for minimal gain

 

I go to a cacher's profile and click send email. That cacher now needs to go my profile page to reply if he/she wishes to keep their email private.

 

Depending on how much use the app gets integration with the app might also be a big deal.

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5 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

 

I go to a cacher's profile and click send email. That cacher now needs to go my profile page to reply if he/she wishes to keep their email private.

 

Depending on how much use the app gets integration with the app might also be a big deal.

If a cacher sens me a message through the MC then I have go go to the webpage to read it. When I'm out I don't use my browser, I can, if I need to, read emails and can reply to them. I'm not prepared to go to the MC page and type a reply there.

See, it works both ways. :ph34r:

 

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33 minutes ago, on4bam said:

If a cacher sens me a message through the MC then I have go go to the webpage to read it. When I'm out I don't use my browser, I can, if I need to, read emails and can reply to them. I'm not prepared to go to the MC page and type a reply there.

See, it works both ways. :ph34r:

 

 

If only there was a way to get those messages forwarded to a mailbox... ;-)

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34 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

 

If only there was a way to get those messages forwarded to a mailbox... ;-)

So you can hit "reply" to answer... oh no, wait... ;-)

 

 

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5 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

It seems to me Reviewers deal with a quantity and nature of geocaching messages far beyond what pretty much any non-Reviewer receives and sends.

 

For the needs of a typical geocacher contacting another typical geocacher, especially without revealing their email address, it seems quite adequate.

 

I don't know what the "typical geocacher" needs, and I don't know whether the volunteer reviewers get more geocaching email than I get total email. However, I want to handle personal communication from other geocachers the same way I handle all my other personal communication, with an email system that is far more capable than the Message Center.

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Reviewers' needs (or at least mine) are not so much based on the volume of emails we receive, which is considerable, but rather on needing the ability to search for and retrieve conversations easily.  A recent example:  last month I reviewed a complex gadget cache that required watching a YouTube video in order to open the cache container.  I had a lot of questions about it, including a design element that skirted the edge of a listing guideline.  When I challenged the CO on these points, he reminded me that, in 2016, he had written several emails back and forth with me to obtain preapproval for the design in advance of constructing the elaborate cache.  I was able to easily search and retrieve that email chain, which he initiated under a different account name.  I could not have done that in the message center, whether the conversations are a month old or three years old.  I have to save everything and I must be able to retrieve it quickly in the event of a land manager complaint or a "what the heck were you thinking?" inquiry from our benevolent amphibian overlords at the Lily Pad.

 

I have my reviewer account's message center set to forward everything to my email, and I reply to that via email, and the sender can read it in the message center if they prefer.  Works great.  My reviewer account has never signed into a smartphone geocaching app, or in the message center on the website.  That's for my player account.

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2 hours ago, niraD said:

I don't know what the "typical geocacher" needs, and I don't know whether the volunteer reviewers get more geocaching email than I get total email. However, I want to handle personal communication from other geocachers the same way I handle all my other personal communication, with an email system that is far more capable than the Message Center.

 

Same here.  I receive and send on average five emails a day in this hobby.  Most are people who don't/won't enter the forums.

All my other communication is by email as well.   People talk to me on the phone too.   :)

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, on4bam said:

So you can hit "reply" to answer... oh no, wait... ;-)

 

 

 

I can hit reply and the reply will go to the message center and the person who messaged me.  It doesn't open the message center.  It sends my reply directly to the message center.  I don't know if I have my most recent email notification about a message or not but if I do, I'll post a screenshot.

 

Found it.

 

1493201263_ScreenShot2019-05-24at8_28_07AM.thumb.png.ab5d2a2066cf2ed6842854c1675a5a20.png

 

New cacher found an adopted challenge cache.  I explained things for them and offered my assistance regarding any other questions they might have as a newer cacher.

Edited by coachstahly
Found email
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11 minutes ago, coachstahly said:

 

I can hit reply and the reply will go to the message center

 

Exactly what I don't want.

 

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22 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Exactly what I don't want.

 

 

Because?  

 

If it's solely about the fact that it "identifies" the manner in which the message was sent, that makes sense but I still don't see the problem, if the email address you provided to receive these notifications is the email address you get all your other geocaching.com emails from.  If you would prefer it to go to their email address, that's a different issue and one that obviously won't work as things currently stand.  The reply to the MC email doesn't provide the email address, only the message that it was replied to via email.  My initial reply was via the email response.  My next reply was directly on the MC page on the site.

 

579591842_ScreenShot2019-05-24at9_00_59AM.png.8dfa2408f2acba5028586fc919fedc3c.png

 

On 5/23/2019 at 8:43 AM, on4bam said:

If a cacher sens me a message through the MC then I have go go to the webpage to read it. When I'm out I don't use my browser, I can, if I need to, read emails and can reply to them. I'm not prepared to go to the MC page and type a reply there.

 

You don't have to go the webpage.  You can read your email and reply to them, thereby sending your reply to the MC without actually having to go to the MC. I will say that subsequent messages don't immediately go to the email, unless there's a longer duration of time between communications. I don't get those notifications regularly, which certainly defeats the purpose of being able to respond via email vs. having to go to the MC to reply back.  In the one I've used as an example, the only notification I received via email was the very first one sent.  We replied back and forth a few more times after that and I never received notification of a reply.  That's certainly not optimal and if you only want to reply via email, would cut the conversation short until the next email went out, notifying you that you had a message in the MC.  To my recollection, I've only received a single email notifying me that I had a follow up reply to my initial reply.

 

I personally prefer to send all my replies to ECs and virtuals via email, and will continue to do so, but I don't mind others contacting me through the MC to send me their answers or ask any questions they might have.  It's not an optimal set up but it still provides another means of communication whereby other cachers can reach out to each other.  I do most of my logging and communication through my desktop rather than my phone anyway, so it's not really much of an issue.

 

How would you respond to cachers who reply to any answers you may have regarding an EC or a virtual, who choose to reply via the MC vs. a more traditional email?  GS has said that answers sent by either format MUST be accepted.  Will you just not respond?

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5 minutes ago, coachstahly said:

I will say that subsequent messages don't immediately go to the email,

 

There’s a setting for that. 🙂

 

On 5/21/2019 at 10:59 AM, arisoft said:

Step 2:

step3.jpg.16056d0b4f11e7d1113ee07e56d6abc8.jpg

step4.jpg.92381abf442b35cf456a53b4ebf9353a.jpg

 

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Posted (edited)

I prefer not to use the message center but I'm not dogmatic about it as long as the "user interface" to process and receive all messages also via e-mail is working OK for my rather low numbers of conversations.

 

FWIW yesterday I got a message via the message center and I have neither received the forwarded e-mail nor a notification on my smartphone via the GC-app.

I received todays messages again via email. Hope it was only an interim hickup. 

Edited by Hynz

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