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FloridaPanther

Geocache CO deleting DNF's and Notes on their caches

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Posted (edited)

We have a geocacher in our nearby urban area that is putting out new geocaches.  Overall, I think they mean well but I don't think they understand the rules of placing and maintaining  a cache. 

Recently they placed a cache on private property and supposedly got permission for the placement.  The coords are about 40 ft. off.  I DNF'd it on my first visit as it was on private property and couldn't find it. They said they updated the coords but haven't and the original coords put it very near a busy road and utility pole.   On the 2nd visit, I found it on private private property, log the find and asked him if he got permission to place it there.   I've tried to help him with this placement but got a nasty email back saying he was deleting all DNF's, including mine, and to change my found log or he would delete that as well. I know of others that have gotten a nasty email from him as well regarding his caches. He basically told me if anyone logs something negative in any of his caches he will delete their log.  As the CO he said, he can do anything he wants with his caches.

 

We went to another cache he put out that was found about 95 ft. off in a public area. I sent him a message and told him this with no response back. There were 3 notes on that one which he has deleted all stating about the placement.  The coords put it on private property.  He changed his cache page and says it's not on private property but there is a new fence at that location and he refuses to update the coords here as well.

 

I've since put all his new hides on ignore.  Thoughts from anyone?  

Edited by FloridaPanther
typo
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Contact HQ to have your found reinstated (and locked).

Contact the reviewer who published the caches and give him/her all needed info about the caches. Reviewers can see deleted logs (it seems).

Post NA (needs archived) on both caches.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

He didn't deleted my found log as I edited it to his liking.  He's only deleting DNF's and Write notes so far.  Plus, he won't take any advice on updating his coords.

Edited by FloridaPanther

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21 minutes ago, FloridaPanther said:

As the CO he said, he can do anything he wants with his caches.

Well, not "anything", but I've never heard of HQ stepping in on DNF/WN disputes.  Bad coordinates are another issue, and should be addressed.  If they aren't addressing that issue, I would probably escalate to an NA log.  They can delete that log all they want, it won't do them any good.

 

Sounds like they aren't really cut out for this cache ownership thing.

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I know this CO and also believe he misunderstands the point of notes and DNFs.  He takes them as an insult for some reason.  I have personally tried to help this CO on several of his caches by recording my coords and trying to get him to update his coords.  He states that he has updated the coords but every time I check they are not.  I was told not to log a DNF and to update him on the coords on my found caches.  I didn't realize that was my job, however I always try to help. It's difficult to find caches that are 90 feet off and then not be able to notify fellow cachers where they can find the cache. I just received a message to modify my find that was 90 ft. off. This may be a question on educating him of how to update his coords or something else, I don't know but it is odd and One other point, I do not search of private property without some indication on the cache page that there was permission given.  Just my take.

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16 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Contact HQ to have your found reinstated (and locked).

When I did this about a find a CO deleted (another CO with problems about negative comments), HQ did nothing. My Find was genuine and I had photographs of the log and cache.

 

As others have suggested, I think placing a NA log is the way to go, with an explanation, that the CO won't take any advice or fix problems such as his coordinates being out and possibly on private property. Tell the reviewer he is deleting all DNFs and Write Notes.

I do remember a beginner cacher in my area (no finds) who placed a couple of caches. One was 'only' about 20 metres out, but the other, which I don't think anyone found, could have been more than 100 metres out (going on hint). People made helpful suggestions. The CO deleted them all. I contacted the reviewer and the deleted logs were returned and the CO told they shouldn't delete logs and people were just trying to assist. The CO 'disappeared' and was never heard from again (back to that argument whether or not someone should be a member for three months before being able to publish a cache. It would have helped them if they had also found some caches. They never found any.)

 

Log NA.

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For sure  the reviewer should be notified,  whether by NA log or personal message,  whichever you prefer.   Even if the CO  deletes the  NA log, the reviewer will still see it.

There are some people who just can't take any criticism at all,  no matter how much you're just trying to be helpful. 

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3 minutes ago, SkipperL said:

I know this CO and also believe he misunderstands the point of notes and DNFs.  He takes them as an insult for some reason. 

I wonder about people like that. I have come up against similar people. The geocacher I'm thinking of, I have discovered several other people have had run ins with too. Log a NM with, "I think this cache is missing and should be checked', after several DNFs and six months has passed, gets a message back, such as "That was rude doing that." It turned out to be missing.

 

Maybe when they were growing up, they were continuously told how special and wonderful they are, and never criticised by their parents. Must be some reason.

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Another idea is to host a event where you can teach cachers about how to maintain and place geocaches well. 

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29 minutes ago, CMWCwest said:

Another idea is to host a event where you can teach cachers about how to maintain and place geocaches well. 

 

I doubt that would work for a CO that doesn't accept notes about coordinates being off.

 

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1 hour ago, FloridaPanther said:

He didn't deleted my found log as I edited it to his liking.  He's only deleting DNF's and Write notes so far.  Plus, he won't take any advice on updating his coords.

 

I suggest sending a note to the reviewer.  The cache owner is exhibiting odd, angry behavior. I wouldn't want to publicly make it worse by posting the NA (but it would help the next finders). He doesn't respect the advice of finders, but he may respect the authority of a reviewer.  

 

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53 minutes ago, CMWCwest said:

Another idea is to host a event where you can teach cachers about how to maintain and place geocaches well. 

 

Would an antagonistic guy like that go to an event?

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Agree with Touchstone, an NA is a good idea for problems with the cache, not necessarily the deleted DNFs. 

 - The CO seems to have an issue or two, and though NAs may be deleted from the cache page , they're permanent.   ;)

The Reviewer, looking for problems related to that NA, will also be able to see all those deleted DNFs and stuff, and might "make a suggestion" to the CO before this gets too outta hand.  :)

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There was a forum regular here for some time, who stated he regularly deleted NMs and DNFs after he took care of whatever maintenance was needed.

Many (I'm one...) said that those were part of the cache's history, and we'd let them stay on ours. 

He claimed he was "cleaning up" his cache pages, making them "neater".   Every hide was pmo too.

 AFAIK, it seemed he never had an issue with doing that from the site. 

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

AFAIK, it seemed he never had an issue with doing that from the site. 

Probably the type of person that keeps a perfectly arranged sock drawer or something.  I don't have a problem with someone bordering on obsessive/compulsive behavior of that sort.  The "nasty email" situation crosses another line for me.  If the original Note or email suggesting the coordinates were off, was presented in an objective manner, the push back from the CO seems a bit out of line and disproportionate to me.

Edited by Touchstone
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2 hours ago, SkipperL said:

He states that he has updated the coords but every time I check they are not.

 

It’s possible that he’s updating his personal coordinates (the pencil on the cache page) rather than using Log Geocache > Update Coordinates.

 

Maybe worth asking him?

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3 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

My Find was genuine and I had photographs of the log and cache.

 

Did you put these spoiler images into your log or used them as evidence when appealing?

 

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1 hour ago, cerberus1 said:

Many (I'm one...) said that those were part of the cache's history, and we'd let them stay on ours. 

 

Not only cache history but also the player's own history / diary. If my DNF is removed without my consent this changes my statistics and the cache have wrong status on the map.

 

Anyway, this happens very rarely. I remember only one DNF report deleted by a CO.

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6 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

Did you put these spoiler images into your log or used them as evidence when appealing?

 

No spoiler images in log. I supplied the images to HQ. The images wouldn't have been spoilers anyway, as they only showed the caches, which was the same as most of the other caches in the series, so that cache was expected.

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Another solution, perhaps extreme, is to make a bookmark page with a title "caches more than 40 feet from listed coordinates" and list the corrected coordinates, or "caches with DNF's deleted" or something like that. Bookmark lists cannot be deleted by the cache owner.

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Posted (edited)

Of critical note:  There is a "Horses Ninny" in every crowd.  Have heard of a similar situation NW of Chicago ... the local group met and agreed as a whole to boycott this particular owners caches and spread the word to one another contacts.  The person eventually grabbed their bat, ball, glove and disappeared into the night.

Edited by humboldt flier
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42 minutes ago, humboldt flier said:

the local group met and agreed as a whole to boycott this particular owners caches and spread the word to one another contacts.  The person eventually grabbed their bat, ball, glove and disappeared into the night.

 Yep.  :D

Here, it often seems to be a new person who's going to "improve" the hobby.

One we had here, a person who named himself president of a small faceboook group,  became an anal retentive micromanager.

The surrounding groups (who all those faceboook people also belonged) took notice and passed it to others.

The guy left the state a short while later. 

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On 5/18/2019 at 4:01 PM, on4bam said:

Contact the reviewer who published the caches and give him/her all needed info about the caches. Reviewers can see deleted logs (it seems).

 

I can confirm this is the case.

 

Restoration of deleted logs is done through appeals, as you pointed out.

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On 5/18/2019 at 10:46 AM, CMWCwest said:

Another idea is to host a event where you can teach cachers about how to maintain and place geocaches well. 

 

Those are good, except that the people who need them the most are least likely to attend. 

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On 5/19/2019 at 6:29 AM, arisoft said:

 

Not only cache history but also the player's own history / diary. If my DNF is removed without my consent this changes my statistics and the cache have wrong status on the map.

 

Anyway, this happens very rarely. I remember only one DNF report deleted by a CO.

 

Absolutely - this is what peeves me the most if a CO deletes a DNF of mine. That's my log of my caching activity, part of my history, and it belongs to me, not to the CO.

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