+rusty_da_dog Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Well, I received an email today from the Arkansas state parks dept. With a BUNCH of rules as to what/how a cache can be placed in a state park. Looks to me like geocaching in Arkansas State Parks is darn near dead, at least in my opinion, I think it could be WAY too much of a hassle. I have a copy of the rules/regulations in my email. Anyone interested in a copy I will be glad to email it to them, just email me. Happy Hunting, Rusty RW Da Man!!! CHS#1 Quote Link to comment
+rusty_da_dog Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 Ok, so I got my Copy/Paste skills sharpened a little. Rusty GEOCACHING PROCEDURES ARKANSAS STATE PARKS AND MUSEUMS CACHE PERMITS: A. Placement of a cache on Department property must be secured with a permit. B. The person applying for a permit must provide a valid address, telephone number, email address, vehicle license number and the website address on which the cache will be posted. C. The exact location of the cache must be pre-approved by the Park Superintendent/ Museum Director, whose main concern will be public safety and the prevention of undesirable impacts to natural and cultural resources. D. The exact cache location, including GPS coordinates, must be stated on the permit. E. All permits will be in effect for a period of four (4) months. The exact starting and ending dates will be recorded on the permit. Note: If, during the four (4) month effective period of a permit, a permit holder wants to change the location of the cache, a new permit must be issued and the effective permit cancelled. F. Upon expiration of a permit, the permit holder is responsible for removing the cache and for removing the cache location from all websites and any information source. G. If the permit holder fails to remove the cache, it will be removed by park staff and held for ten (10) days, after which staff will dispose of the cache. Confiscation and disposal by park staff will be recorded in an incident report. CACHE CONTAINERS AND CONTENTS: A. Cache containers must be non-breakable, transparent and have some form of latch or other closing mechanism to prohibit content exposure to wildlife. B. Caches may not contain inappropriate or dangerous items. Such items include, but are not limited to, food, mediations, personal/hygiene products, pornography, weapons, of any type, etc. Log books are encouraged in Arkansas State Parks/ Museums, over exchange items. C. All caches are subject to random inspection by Park Superintendents and Museum Directors. Park staff has the authority to immediately remove any item held in a cache deemed unacceptable. CACHE LOCATIONS: A. Physical caches are prohibited inside any state park/museum facility or structure. B. The location of a cache must be pre-approved by the Park Superintendent or Museum Director. C. Caches may not be placed in locations that may lead to the creation of spur trails. D. Caches may not be buried, nor may vegetation or stones be disturbed to pace a cache. E. Caches may not be placed in dangerous, inappropriate, or protected areas and habitats, on cliffs, underground, or underwater. F. Metal detectors may not be used in cache searches. COMPLIANCE: A. Failure to comply with park / museum guidelines will result in the revocation of effective geocaching permits. Continued failure to comply with these guidelines will prevent the issuance of any further geocaching permits to the non-compliant group or individual. B. If geocaching activities as a whole are found to have a negative impact on park resources or if safety becomes an issue in geocache searches, the Park Superintendent / Museum Director may ban geocaching from certain areas or from the entire park / museum. RW Da Man!!! CHS#1 Quote Link to comment
+Trudy & the beast Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 While many of the restrictions are appropriate, others are much too restrictive. My personal gut reaction is to take our business elseware. Do not take geocaching user fees to Arkansas State Parks. Do not play by their rules, take the game elsewhere. Snub the jerks! Quote Link to comment
+KcOnAFly Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I agree with Trudy and the Beast that some of the rules are appropriate and others are too restrictive but I think avoiding Arkansas Parks is not the way to go. Clearly these regs were put together without adequate input from geocachers. Geocachers have as much right to use the parks as anyone else. Certainly we are better stewards of nature than offroaders and do far less damage than the averaging picnicing family. Those who live in Arkansas need to meet with those in charge and seek a change in regulations that is more balanced. They need to demonstrate that there are many taxpayers who geocache, that geocachers are good stewards of the parks, that geocaching is a legitimate use of the parks that does not interfere with the use of the parks by others and help the park people become acquainted with geocaching and geocachers. Just my two cents... Quote Link to comment
+BrownMule & Jackrabbit Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Frankly I see very little problem with the rules. I do think that 4 months is not enough time for the permit but other than that I agree with the other rules. ENJOY THE OUTDOORS Quote Link to comment
+ger Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Seems most of the rules are reasonable, while some are not. Permits and four month durations are unreasonable and just create more work and aggrevation for everyone. We had this same issue with the St. Johns River Water Management District in Florida. However, we were able to work out a reasonable solution for everyone. Look at this Forum Topic to see the issues and resolution to the problems. They set up a simple approval application on their web site that works great. You can read more about the issues on this cache's logs. You might also have them contact Nels Parson the Land Manager at the SJRWMD to discuss geocaching from the land managers point of view. He really went to bat for us when his bosses wanted to ban geocaching outright. His email address is nparson@sjrwmd.com. Quote Link to comment
+Web-ling Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 At least there is now a written policy allowing geocaching! The next step would be to place caches that follow the rules. When the parks people see that there are few if any problems, they may ease off a bit on some of the restrictions. After 4-6 months, meet with the parks management to discuss the regulations, and see if the more restrictive provisions can be modified. Best of luck! I hope to hunt a few of these eventually! Quote Link to comment
+welch Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Overall the rules seem fair, could be a little better, but if you read it over they havent out right denied any cache location or type. There are two things I would nit-pick. First the four month limit. It seems just a bit too short, with a small time limit I think everyone would be swarming on the thing at once, which could cause problems(and noone wants that, right?). But after using the rules, maybe they* can be convinced to extend/relax the four month limit. The other is that it seems like no ammo cans are allowed. Ammo cans are way sturdier in construction(shatterproof ) and are almost animal proof(snap in place latches ). So will they trade the one for maxing out of the other two? Quote Link to comment
+Trafcon Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 We just had a concern by our local parks dept. One of their employees took it upon himself to check out all the caches and "certify" them. Check these links. approval letter first chats I hope this helps also. Looks like a lot of beauracratic BS KTF !!! GBWY !!! Quote Link to comment
+Team MGGPS Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 I disagree with the permit idea completely. It seems like another waste of limited funds for the Parks Dept. The costs incured in manpower and having to deal with the bureaucracy of permits would be too much, especially since the state is havings budget problems already. Unless they intend to charge for the permit, which I again disagree with, I say just let us do our thing and leave us alone. "Public Lands---No Trespassing" Quote Link to comment
+rusty_da_dog Posted December 23, 2002 Author Share Posted December 23, 2002 WoW, finally someone from Arkansas posts their opinion. Some of the things that are on the list I think are ok, some I totally disagree with. Cache in clear plastic containers, random inspection by park supervisors (What if they consider something they might want out of the cache inappropriate just so they can confiscate it for themselves, not saying they would, just a question) Also why do we need permits and they only last for 4 months, thats not near enough time. Come on I know there are more Arkansas Geocachers out there, I would be interested in your opinions. Also I heard there was going to be a public hearing on Jan 16th, any Arkansas Geocachers going? I am going to do my best to make it. Merry Christmas, Rusty RW Da Man!!! CHS#1 Quote Link to comment
+welch Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 quote:Originally posted by rusty_da_dog:WoW, finally someone from Arkansas posts their opinion. Some of the things that are on the list I think are ok, some I totally disagree with. Cache in clear plastic containers, random inspection by park supervisors (What if they consider something they might want out of the cache inappropriate just so they can confiscate it for themselves, not saying they would, just a question) I think a lot cachers (from Arkansas or otherwise)disagree with the container *requires*. If you locate an email address I think a more than one cacher would send them a letter saying how shortsighted some of the guidelines are. As for random inspection, I have to say, "so what?". Theres nothing from stoping 'geo-pirates' raiding whatever they want as it is. quote:Also why do we need permits and they only last for 4 months, thats not near enough time. We're in total agreement about 4 months being too short. quote:Come on I know there are more Arkansas Geocachers out there, I would be interested in your opinions. Also I heard there was going to be a public hearing on Jan 16th, any Arkansas Geocachers going? I am going to do my best to make it. You might want to post messages on some of Arkansas cache pages, or on other Arkansas geocaching sites. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_da_dog Posted December 24, 2002 Author Share Posted December 24, 2002 There will be a public hearing on the new Parks directive 3220 on January 16, 2003 at 10:30 a.m. The location is: Arkansas Hospitality Association 603 Pulaski Street Little Rock, AR Prior to the meeting public comments will be accepted. Comments should be mailed to: Director of Arkansas State Parks One Capitol Mall Little Rock, AR 72201 Verbal comments can be made by calling 501/682-7743. A Legal Notice is currently posted in Newspapers. Some of the highlights of Directive 3220: Caches require a permit. Exact location of the cache must be approved by the park supervisor and included on the permit. Any websites that list the cache must be included on the permit. The permit is valid four four months. Cache must be removed in four months and removed from any websites. The cache container must be clear. Nothing hazardous in caches, no food. Caches are subject to random inspection. Caches are not permitted in locations that will cause spur trails. No caches in park buildings or structures. There is some more official jargon, but that is about it. A copy of the directive is available at the Administrative office of any Arkansas State Park or Museum. It is titled Geocaching - Arkansas State Parks and Museums, Park Directive 3220. Dated November 5, 2002. Rusty RW Da Man!!! CHS#1 Quote Link to comment
+bitbrain Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 We made a caching trip to Little Rock this past weekend. I must say that I saw no signs of damage to the environment caused by cachers in any of the parks we visited (even the one where Salvo encountered the razorback). ChinaJack, cwlutterloh and I would probably never have visited the state parks around Little Rock if not for GeoCaching. I think all three of us have a new respect for the beauty of the Arkansas landscape (and a renewed disdain for the Arkansas DOT - what's up with the neverending I-40 Construction?). I won't be able to make it to LR for the public meeting, but I encourage any of the local cachers to attend and be heard. Rules are good, but it would be a shame for the sport to be regulated to death in those parks. - If the cat had kittens in the oven, we wouldn't call 'em biscuits. - Quote Link to comment
pdumas Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Wife and I are working on some comments and we'll mail them in, I'll also try and be at the meeting on Jan. 16 @ 10:30. We should post this hearing as a geocache. Quote Link to comment
magellan315 Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by pdumas:Wife and I are working on some comments and we'll mail them in, I'll also try and be at the meeting on Jan. 16 @ 10:30. We should post this hearing as a geocache. I think that this is an excellent idea for an event cache, what a great way to publicize the meeting and get a strong turnout. I hope someone does this. Quote Link to comment
pdumas Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Wife & I made verbal comments by calling 501/682-7743. The person we talk to was very nice and she said everything would be talked about at the hearing. Thanks To: All on this forman for your help. Michael D. Dumas & pdumas Quote Link to comment
MTBguy Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 We shouldn't roll over & play dead yet. the policy isn't set in stone & when it is we should still keep trying to get the best policy made that we can. We can't let park officials think that we are all a bunch of pushovers. We've got to let them know, not just in Arkansas, that we care for the areas as much as or more that they do. Everyone got their letters sent yet? We've got one week from Thursday to get them there! I'll look into making this an event cache, I'd have to get coords somehow though, anybody close enough to help with that? Also, whoever does make it to the meeting, could you report back here how it goes? The Mountain Bike Guy from Joplin MO ------------------------------------ Long Live Long Rides Quote Link to comment
+bitbrain Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by MTBguy:Everyone got their letters sent yet? We've got one week from Thursday to get them there! I'll look into making this an event cache, I'd have to get coords somehow though, anybody close enough to help with that? Also, whoever does make it to the meeting, could you report back here how it goes? Coordinates (within spitting distance anyway) should be N34° 44.713 W92° 17.135. - If the cat had kittens in the oven, we wouldn't call 'em biscuits. - Quote Link to comment
+Luggage & Leather Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 At least they don't charge you a fee for the cache. NC State Parks charge $25 for a permit to place the cache. They are supposed to be good for 3 months, but mine has been there 4 so far. I placed it near enough to the boundry that I'll move it outside the park when they decide to make it expire. Although I don't like the permitting process, being a former ranger I do understand the need. Some folks would place them in sensative areas and parks are generally trying to protect certain areas. Quote Link to comment
IGPoobah Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 and I am sending it out tomorrow. I regret that I cannot make the meeting. I would have sent my letter out sooner, but I just got involved in the whole GPS thing on Saturday when my unit arrived, so I'm trying. Quote Link to comment
MTBguy Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Great idea pdumas! Here it is, the event cache based on the Jan 16th meeting! http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=49331 Be there! The Mountain Bike Guy from Joplin MO ------------------------------------ Long Live Long Rides Quote Link to comment
MTBguy Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 The meeting is this week on Thursday! We need as many people as we can get to be there. Plus there is an added bonus, you get to log it as an event cache: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=49331 Good luck everybody, lets make caching in Arkansas State Parks a good experience for everybody. The Mountain Bike Guy from Joplin MO ------------------------------------ Long Live Long Rides Quote Link to comment
+creagerstonefamily Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 I sent my comments today via sandy.burch@mail.state.ar.us. January 15 is the last day to submit comments. Quote Link to comment
+LongDogs Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Victory! Permits are still required but are for 1-year at a time with 1-year renewals at the descretion of the park staff. Ammo boxes are ok (maybe even encouraged.) The "transparent" requirement was struck from the rules. The container is at the descretion of the cacher, but must be approved at the time you get the permit. Quote Link to comment
MTBguy Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Great work everybody, sounds like a lot of people showed up at the meeting, and had great results! The main points are we can use ammo boxes, we get an official state park geocaching sticker to put on it, the permits last one whole year, with automatic renewal at the descretion of the local park personnel. They way the permit process is supposed to work, is you take your cache to the park office, and tell them where you want to put it, they will then inspect it and put on an "official Arkansas State Park Approved Geocache" sticker with your name and date on it. (Basically the sticker is the permit form and permit itself.) The sticker must be stuck on the cache and then you can hide it. There will be no charge. Thanks again to everybody for making this work, pat yourselves on the back! The Mountain Bike Guy from Joplin MO ------------------------------------ Long Live Long Rides Quote Link to comment
+rusty_da_dog Posted January 16, 2003 Author Share Posted January 16, 2003 Let the caching OFFICIALLY begin....... Wow its great, I just knew it was going to be one of those political things, but the people on the commision, at least for the most part, were really pro-geocaching. I think the turn out really caught them by surprise. As we were leaving I did hear one funny comment. People were talking about National Forrest lands and his comment was " My dadgum jeep doesn't hurt their land anymore than their vehicles do." I thought that was rather amusing. Cya on the trails, Rusty RW Da Man!!! CHS#1 Quote Link to comment
arkgcache Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 I was hoping to make the public hearing this morning but could not take the morning off. Anyway, I did send comments to the contact at the parks department and cc'ed the director as well on Friday. While I do not mind the permit idea the problems I had with it were: a.) The Permit was only good for 4 months b.) Park Manager had to approve site in advance (and from my interpretation, only the manager could approve site) I’m glad that they took care of part (a). As for part (, I suggested that an approximate location be agreed upon in advance with instructions on where not to put the cache (i.e. not with in XX feet of a cliff, not on a stream bank below the high water mark, etc.) and THEN the final position be reported on the permit. I also asked for person on duty (ranger, attendant, etc) have the authority to approve the cache location because I figured the manager/superintendent in not there on weekends. I was thinking if you followed the rules, you would have to hike to the spot at least twice (once to get the "exact" position and a second time to place the cache). If the location was unacceptible, then you would have to make a 3rd and 4th trip. While I wasn’t too thrilled on the “clear” container idea, I though maybe they were approaching that from a security standpoint and would not back off. I’m glad I was wrong about that one. Anyway, I’m glad they are going to allow Geocaching in Arkansas State Parks instead of just doing a blanket ban on something that is unfamiliar to them…. I also saw the article in Tuesday’s Democrat-Gazette about Geocaching where it mentions the Cadron Kids, great article!! I am "new" to the sport but have been using GPS through my job for the last 4 years. I am just glad that they didn't ban it in the state parks just when I was getting started.... Quote Link to comment
pdumas Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 The Permit was only good for 4 months (changed to read 1 year) The “clear” container idea (the word clear has been removed) The meeting was very good for all and I thing we can all work together to improve our sport. Quote Link to comment
pdumas Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 The meeting was very good for all and I think we can all work together to improve our sport. Quote Link to comment
+LongDogs Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 After reading the messages here, and from the discussion in the hall after the State Parks meeting, it is clear to me we need an Arkansas Geocaching Association. To promote this effort, I've created a yahoo group called ArkGeo for discussion of geocaching in Arkansas. You can join the e-mail group by visiting this web site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArkGeo/ or by sending an e-mail to: ArkGeo-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Longdogs Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.