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EmzyJanezy

"Fern" Geocache - where is safe to put it?

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Hi there.  I bought a bison tube geocache with fake fern on top which I thought would be quite cunning set among other plants.  Have come across these sort of caches before so was excited to have my own.

 

However, it cannot be published because the reviewer fears geocachers would destroy the wall and surroundings looking for it (picture attached).

 

I was wondering if I have wasted my money as anywhere I put this I will clearly be encouraging people to dig up plants and destroy wildlife, or is there a place anywhere this type of geocache may be suitable?  Looking for suggestions really.

 

Thank you

60057195_311721146390518_8690945565602611200_o.jpg

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Keep in mind that there are no precedents for placing geocaches, but I've seen caches placed where the description mentioned the camouflage looks "almost natural" (or something like that), and told seekers that they could retrieve the cache without leaving the paved path/trail/sidewalk, and told seekers not to touch anything until they spotted the camouflage. All that, combined with a high difficulty rating, should help. You'll still have people who show up at the coordinates without having read the description, but hopefully such people will give up after 5 minutes, log a DNF, and move on.

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I've found lots of caches in walls.

Your placement looks fantastic!! That is so cool.

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Please note that the OP is in the UK, which has regional guidelines regarding stone walls.  So, buying this container and hiding it in this manner may work elsewhere, but it will hit a stone wall if reviewed in the UK.  (Pardon the pun.)

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A log I felt compelled to write:  "DNF. Area looks like it has been torn up by people looking for something."  Please find somewhere to hide it that people won't tear up the area.  I once found a similar container in a spot where there were only 2-3 other plants.

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This is a very real problem. A good call by the reviewer. I don't care where it is.

 

Sorry for not supporting you, OP. But remember that it's the wall that's the problem. Don't give up on the camo, just don't put it somewhere that will encourage destruction of the environment. The worst case is when the cache really is missing. Then people will start dismantling the wall because they're so sure the cache is in there somewhere.

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1 hour ago, EmzyJanezy said:

However, it cannot be published because the reviewer fears geocachers would destroy the wall and surroundings looking for it (picture attached).

 

Yes, geocachers will really destroy the environment while searching a cache.

 

1 hour ago, EmzyJanezy said:

is there a place anywhere this type of geocache may be suitable?

 

A stonewall is not the first idea for a such cache in my mind. You are not allowed to dig a hole for the cache but if you can find an existing hole already on ground you could use it. Many caches are placed under tree stumps. It could be a good place to your cache.

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1 hour ago, EmzyJanezy said:

Hi there.  I bought a bison tube geocache with fake fern on top which I thought would be quite cunning set among other plants.  Have come across these sort of caches before so was excited to have my own.

 

However, it cannot be published because the reviewer fears geocachers would destroy the wall and surroundings looking for it (picture attached).

 

I was wondering if I have wasted my money as anywhere I put this I will clearly be encouraging people to dig up plants and destroy wildlife, or is there a place anywhere this type of geocache may be suitable?  Looking for suggestions really.

 

Thank you

 

You're creative! You'll find a great location for this fun container.

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59 minutes ago, dprovan said:

Sorry for not supporting you, OP. 

 

No problem, I wasn't saying I was right, I was just looking for ideas of where I could place it that wouldn't encourage people to rip the place to bits lol

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50 minutes ago, dprovan said:

This is a very real problem. A good call by the reviewer. I don't care where it is.

 

Agreed. 

A new small box type cache (permission given) was put in the roots of a tree over 1m from a wall where I work. It was an old wall, had stood for years and was no longer required but it only took a few weeks to flatten. The cache was regularly returned to the tree but finders seemed to prefer building stone camo instead.

Yes, we could have asked for it to be moved but the wall was due for demolition anyway.

 

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3 minutes ago, EmzyJanezy said:

 

No problem, I wasn't saying I was right, I was just looking for ideas of where I could place it that wouldn't encourage people to rip the place to bits lol

 

I've seen something similar placed in a crevice between two huge boulders. The boulders weren't going to be moved or damaged by anyone and there were no other plants in the immediate vicinity that might be dug up yet it didn't look unnatural as plants do sometimes grow in such crevices.

 

image.png.d4b26b70d7111d8b835c9822b6227d25.png

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2 hours ago, EmzyJanezy said:

 Looking for suggestions really.

 

My Micro match tube "Dale Carrot, Jr." has green plastic carrot "hair".  He sits in a slightly larger tube that is held with Velcro to an eye-level tree branch.  Similar to your fern, the cache is set up so that only the "leaves" are seen when it's in its spot.  It has worked out pretty well for a cache, as Micros go.  14 Favorites.

 

You could hang or tie your cache to a tree, and it's trickier if the leaves kind of match, funnier if they don't.

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1 minute ago, kunarion said:

 

My Micro match tube "Dale Carrot, Jr." has green plastic carrot "hair".  He sits in a slightly larger tube that is held with Velcro to an eye-level tree branch.  Similar to your fern, the cache is set up so that only the "leaves" are seen when it's in its spot.  It has worked out pretty well for a cache, as Micros go.  14 Favorites.

 

You could hang or tie your cache to a tree, and it's trickier if the leaves kind of match, funnier if they don't.

 

Would that not just encourage geocachers to rifles about in and potentially damage the tree though?

 

Having said that I've seen loads in trees, among plants, and in walls lol

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Just now, barefootjeff said:

 

I've seen something similar placed in a crevice between two huge boulders. The boulders weren't going to be moved or damaged by anyone and there were no other plants in the immediate vicinity that might be dug up yet it didn't look unnatural as plants do sometimes grow in such crevices.

 

image.png.d4b26b70d7111d8b835c9822b6227d25.png

 

I'm working on some ideas for Micros, and one of them would involve me bringing my own rock(s) specially set up to hold my Micro tube.  That way there doesn't need to already be rocks there, and I'm free to hide the whole assembly where passers-by don't go.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, EmzyJanezy said:

Would that not just encourage geocachers to rifles about in and potentially damage the tree though?

 

It's good to not encourage damage.  If you wonder about placing a cache in a bushy tree, see Rio Cache.  It's designed to stand out (while otherwise tucked away among evergreen branches), and the first instruction for that cache is to look without even touching the tree.  It will be just that obvious.  It's been there for 6 years without incident.  Well, except when someone grabs it and clips it to a post 200 feet away or something.  But even when not in its tree, cachers aren't shredding the tree for an unfindable container.  But your job as a Cache Owner is to decide if local cachers are destructive while searching or when the cache is missing.  Design the cache with that in mind.  Also, pay attention to that Reviewer, there may be a lot more wall diggers around there than you actually need.  :)

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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Nice hide.  :)   One of those "in yer face" hides.

Similar to barefootjeff,  we've found polyester and/or plastic flowers, fruit n leaves in spots, but where you know it doesn't belong.

We've found a "daisy" in a tree once,  and numerous walnuts in maple trees, oranges in pine, pine cones in apple trees... you name it.

Place it in a spot where no one can think it'd belong.      Well, these days, where most wouldn't think it belongs...     :D

 

One of the many reasons we rarely do "public" caches is the vandalism we've seen at way too many spots .

 - It's just not fun to see that, when you're out looking to enjoy the day.

We could see old walls on a "no, not here...' list...

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First off how much info did you tell your reviewer? Just tell them its a bison tube hide no need to tell them any more than that. No need to send them pics... It should have been published anyways.

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25 minutes ago, joesdolphins said:

It should have been published anyways.

Yes, aside from the tried and trued "guilt by omission" method of getting your Listing Published, are there any natural stone wall in your area?  A quick internet search showed several climbing area in the Durham area.  I would tend to avoid the more active climbing and bouldering areas, since climbers tend to be a rather fanatically clean sort of group, and I suspect a cache wouldn't last very long in a very active area, but I'm sure there's has to be some out of the way spots that are infrequently visited.

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59 minutes ago, joesdolphins said:

First off how much info did you tell your reviewer? Just tell them its a bison tube hide no need to tell them any more than that. No need to send them pics... It should have been published anyways.

 

Hmm. Me, I probably go overboard giving the reviewer as much information about my caches and their hiding places as I can, including zoning maps, photos of the container out in the open, concealed in its hiding place and a wider angle shot of the hiding place to put it into context with its surroundings. If there are problems with my container or location, I want to know about them before it's published rather than suffer the consequences after the damage is done, even if it means abandoning that location. The reviewer isn't the enemy, they're trying to help me avoid problems I was either were unaware of or overlooked. After all, they've had a lot more experience at this game than I've had (or will likely ever have).

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1 hour ago, joesdolphins said:

First off how much info did you tell your reviewer? Just tell them its a bison tube hide no need to tell them any more than that. No need to send them pics... It should have been published anyways.

 

I've never had an issue with being too forthcoming about my cache.  Some of my caches are hide styles I've never heard of (sure, that everyone but me has seen many times).  So if there's a feature of my design that I'm not completely confident about, I mention it, and even include a photo.  If my cool new cache would not be so cool in an old rock wall, I'd want to know before it becomes a bigger problem.

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7 hours ago, joesdolphins said:

First off how much info did you tell your reviewer? Just tell them its a bison tube hide no need to tell them any more than that. No need to send them pics... It should have been published anyways.

 

I said it was a bison tube with fake fern attached placed between bricks.  Reviewer said walls are forbidden because it can cause damage to the wall so I then sent the photo to show it wasn't a WALL wall, but rather some bricks around plants.  The reviewer stuck to the wall issue but after seeing the photo said this placement would also cause geocachers to damage the plants around the cache too.  

 

Its fair enough.  Although I have found many geocaches in and around plants, some of them even disguised as plants and sticks themselves.  But its okay, I'll have to seek out another location.  I'm just a tad disappointed though because my idea was to have a very sneaky cache but now its gonna be blindingly obvious wherever I put it if I can't put it near plants, but oh well lol

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2 hours ago, EmzyJanezy said:

 

I said it was a bison tube with fake fern attached placed between bricks.  Reviewer said walls are forbidden because it can cause damage to the wall so I then sent the photo to show it wasn't a WALL wall, but rather some bricks around plants.  The reviewer stuck to the wall issue but after seeing the photo said this placement would also cause geocachers to damage the plants around the cache too.  

 

Its fair enough.  Although I have found many geocaches in and around plants, some of them even disguised as plants and sticks themselves.  But its okay, I'll have to seek out another location.  I'm just a tad disappointed though because my idea was to have a very sneaky cache but now its gonna be blindingly obvious wherever I put it if I can't put it near plants, but oh well lol

 

I thought the photo of the large rocks with the pile of sticks  looked like a good hiding spot.   If you can find someplace similar where there are some large rocks that might have cracks in between them, that's a sport a plant would normally grow.   

 

I have also seen well cammo'd container hidden places that, at first glance, appear normal but then when one things about it, wonders "what is an apple doing in a pear tree".   Placing a fern in a bright sunny location might be a fun way to hide it in plain sight and wouldn't require intense searching of an area that might lead to environment damage.  

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, EmzyJanezy said:

I was wondering if I have wasted my money as anywhere I put this I will clearly be encouraging people to dig up plants and destroy wildlife, or is there a place anywhere this type of geocache may be suitable?  Looking for suggestions really.

 

Decorated Micros do tend to be a waste of money.  They're sold as a simple way to have an impossible to find Geocache, but it turns out they require much more maintenance than the CO expected.  They become archived quickly. It's better to locate a cool spot first, then decide what to design for the container.  Not the other way around.

 

Rather than buy a tube with a leaf on it, I try to make my own version, when the hiding spot calls for something like that.  Since I made it myself, I have extra materials on hand to replace it.  And those Micros do need to be replaced a lot.

 

Edited by kunarion
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22 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 It's better to locate a cool spot first, then decide what to design for the container.  Not the other way around.

Agreed.

The one time we had a "now where to put this..." hide, it was a real pain-in-the-can just to "make it work".

It's so much easier to find that great spot and say "you know, a  (pick a container)  will fit there perfectly".   :)

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13 hours ago, joesdolphins said:

First off how much info did you tell your reviewer? Just tell them its a bison tube hide no need to tell them any more than that. No need to send them pics... It should have been published anyways.

 

So far we've been on good terms with our Reviewers.   We tell them everything.    :)

In fact, we almost didn't get a series passed because we were honest with the Reviewer, but got a pass with some alterations.

I'd like them to look at us as trustworthy for future hides, not that there may be something we're hiding from them.

There's one near us that whines that they're always getting "hassled by the Reviewer".

 - Their hides may be in areas not allowing caches, but coordinates are 20' off across that creek to make it legit (the hint says where it really is...).

We don't want to be "that guy"...

If you noticed an earlier post, A Reviewer says that the  UK  has regional guidelines regarding stone walls.  Curious, did you research it for the OP ?

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1 hour ago, kunarion said:

Since I made it myself, I have extra materials on hand to replace it.

One bit of advice I received from a cache owner known for his custom cache containers and camouflage was to always make extra copies. While you've got everything set up to make the first one, it isn't much more work to make a couple more. Then, when the cache gets muggled, you just place one of the spares. Otherwise, you have to get a Round Tuit so you can build a replacement, and then you have to place it.

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Another alternative is to go the other way, and put it where ferns and other plant life would be totally unexpected.

 

Most people would see it, disregard it and marvel at the wonders of nature; how it expresses itself and can survive anywhere and hopefully not "clean" it out, and searchers wouldn't have anything REAL to destroy!

 

YOU, on the other hand would be the owner of an excellent joke-on-them.

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7 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Another alternative is to go the other way, and put it where ferns and other plant life would be totally unexpected.

This basic approach works well. I've also heard of cache owners putting pinecone caches in oak trees, or acorn caches in pine trees. Or you could create a cache that looks like one kind of pinecone, but put it in a forest with a different kind of pine tree.

pineconeslrg2.jpg

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2 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Another alternative is to go the other way, and put it where ferns and other plant life would be totally unexpected.

 

Most people would see it, disregard it and marvel at the wonders of nature; how it expresses itself and can survive anywhere and hopefully not "clean" it out, and searchers wouldn't have anything REAL to destroy!

 

YOU, on the other hand would be the owner of an excellent joke-on-them.

 

^This

 

For many people, all they'd see is a pinecone hanging in a tree, which is perfectly normal and not worthy of note. They won't have any reason to think about it more and realize that it's an oak tree, or that the area is way too dry for a fern to be growing there. You don't want to carry this too far (e.g. fern in the desert), but a fern growing in a dry part of a forest would often go unnoticed.

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9 hours ago, EmzyJanezy said:

 

I said it was a bison tube with fake fern attached placed between bricks.  Reviewer said walls are forbidden because it can cause damage to the wall so I then sent the photo to show it wasn't a WALL wall, but rather some bricks around plants.  The reviewer stuck to the wall issue but after seeing the photo said this placement would also cause geocachers to damage the plants around the cache too.  

 

Its fair enough.  Although I have found many geocaches in and around plants, some of them even disguised as plants and sticks themselves.  But its okay, I'll have to seek out another location.  I'm just a tad disappointed though because my idea was to have a very sneaky cache but now its gonna be blindingly obvious wherever I put it if I can't put it near plants, but oh well lol

 

Sometimes it's the "In plain sight" but not so obvious that works. No other plants around, but no one thinks twice about the one plant there...

Unless it's the cacher looking for 'something' that is a cache...

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17 hours ago, joesdolphins said:

First off how much info did you tell your reviewer? Just tell them its a bison tube hide no need to tell them any more than that. No need to send them pics... It should have been published anyways.

 

I expect that your local reviewer has been duly notified of this post and you may receive increased scrutiny for future hides.

 

All of us should be providing all of the information necessary for the reviewer to make an informed decision regarding a cache. Lying to your reviewer (including lies-by-omission) can lead to a cache being published that shouldn't have been and cause issues with land managers or other entities, which can affect all of us. Give your reviewer more information, not less.

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On 5/9/2019 at 11:01 PM, Keystone said:

Please note that the OP is in the UK, which has regional guidelines regarding stone walls.  So, buying this container and hiding it in this manner may work elsewhere, but it will hit a stone wall if reviewed in the UK.  (Pardon the pun.)

 

I'm aware that the origin of this UK guideline stems from the existence of the many regional "dry stone walls" which need extra protection but I wished this would become somehow an international guideline. At least it should become common knowledge for hider that no cache should be hidden in a way that it is inevitable even for experienced geocacher to rock multiple bricks/stones of any wall to find the right one where the completely invisible cache is hidden behind.

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Maybe instead of putting it in an existing wall, you can create a fake "wall" by piling a few rocks around the tube?  Non-cachers wouldn't notice it, cachers would return it as they found it, and no walls would be in danger of destruction.

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3 hours ago, Ageleni said:

Maybe instead of putting it in an existing wall, you can create a fake "wall" by piling a few rocks around the tube?  Non-cachers wouldn't notice it, cachers would return it as they found it, and no walls would be in danger of destruction.

 

That might work really well!  I glued a magnet to a rock and I have a tiny bison tube (painted like a rock) which has a magnet to stick to the rock's magnet.  I've never placed it, though.  I always think of a bigger container that could fit any given spot instead. :)

 

I've thought of gluing rocks together to form a compact hiding spot, custom-sized for a particular tube.  In fact, glue a slightly larger tube among the glued rocks, and cachers may easily return the container to its exact spot.  I'm looking at construction adhesive or outdoor silicone sealant to hold the rocks together, then need to find rocks that don't stand out too much in the cache area.

 

The reviewer note should mention that these are your own rocks brought to the site to make the cache.

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1 hour ago, kunarion said:

The reviewer note should mention that these are your own rocks brought to the site to make the cache.

Yep.

When I hear "build your own wall..." I'm reminded of the many times we've seen areas devastated "for a smiley..."..

I had a cache called "black rock" once.   A flat-black painted large, flat rock from my own  fence line .   Made it clear to the Reviewer.

Lugged that thing in (and out when done) in a Alice-pack frame.  

The reason ?  As one cacher noted,  "a nice find that didn't actually need you to tear apart the wall".     :)

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Posted (edited)
On 5/10/2019 at 10:55 AM, EmzyJanezy said:

 

I said it was a bison tube with fake fern attached placed between bricks.  Reviewer said walls are forbidden because it can cause damage to the wall so I then sent the photo to show it wasn't a WALL wall, but rather some bricks around plants.  The reviewer stuck to the wall issue but after seeing the photo said this placement would also cause geocachers to damage the plants around the cache too.  

 

Its fair enough.  Although I have found many geocaches in and around plants, some of them even disguised as plants and sticks themselves.  But its okay, I'll have to seek out another location.  I'm just a tad disappointed though because my idea was to have a very sneaky cache but now its gonna be blindingly obvious wherever I put it if I can't put it near plants, but oh well lol


They're not bricks (which are man made, usually red but often pale). Those are stones and that's a dry stone retaining wall, possibly around plants but still a dry stone wall. The reviewer (who I know well and is a decent, sensible person) is correct. If they had any doubts they would have asked their UK colleagues, but there's no need to in this case as it's obviously against the guidelines.
The wall guidelines were introduced to protect traditional dry stone walls in countryside areas such as in the Lake District/Yorkshire Dales where they're a historic feature of the landscape. Having built and repaired several of dry stonewalls for my job I wouldn't want any cacher interfering with them.
Whilst this is a basic low wall and is less likely to be damaged than taller structures the rule is still applicable.

As for hiding a fake plant amongst other vegetation and real ferns - I wish that was something reviewers were more strict about. I've seen areas of devestation when cachers have pulled out all sorts of plants in their quest for that elusive find. I've often walked away in disgust without even bothering to search for the cache.

From a land owner's point of view...
I work for a wildlife charity and am the person responsible for geocaching on our nature reserves. If someone asked for permission for this type of hide on one of our reserves I would decline it.

Edited by duncanhoyle
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On 5/10/2019 at 4:02 PM, The A-Team said:

 

I expect that your local reviewer has been duly notified of this post and you may receive increased scrutiny for future hides.

 

All of us should be providing all of the information necessary for the reviewer to make an informed decision regarding a cache. Lying to your reviewer (including lies-by-omission) can lead to a cache being published that shouldn't have been and cause issues with land managers or other entities, which can affect all of us. Give your reviewer more information, not less.

 

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Here's a rock pile I made this weekend, using "landscape construction adhesive" suitable for masonry and stone.  I glued this shape with a hole in the middle for a 50ml vial, a tube a little larger than a match tube.  The cap has fake pine straw glued and duct taped to it, but it could just as well have been a fern or whatever I want.  Next time, I'll use larger rocks.  It's tougher to "glue" a whole lot of little rocks into a pile than I'd hope.  I could tack large rocks together with less construction adhesive.

 

This of course would be placed among rocks, maybe near a rock wall, if the spot is suitable.

 

 

IMG_9822-copy-2.jpg

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2 hours ago, kunarion said:

Here's a rock pile I made this weekend, using "landscape construction adhesive" suitable for masonry and stone.  I glued this shape with a hole in the middle for a 50ml vial, a tube a little larger than a match tube.  The cap has fake pine straw glued and duct taped to it, but it could just as well have been a fern or whatever I want.  Next time, I'll use larger rocks.  It's tougher to "glue" a whole lot of little rocks into a pile than I'd hope.  I could tack large rocks together with less construction adhesive.

 

This of course would be placed among rocks, maybe near a rock wall, if the spot is suitable.

 

 

IMG_9822-copy-2.jpg

 

This is definitely worthy of the CCC thread!

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