New Hide (Invisible Nearby Cache)

[Tyroq]

So I've been geocaching for a couple years now and am ready to make my first cache. Everything was going fine getting permission and getting things set up until I checked the map on the pc version website and noticed on the side bar that there's apparently some invisible premium-only cache in the general vicinity of where I want to put mine. And of course, since I'm not premium I can't see it or even know its coordinates, and it doesn't even show up on the mobile app. So I have no way of knowing if mine would be too close or not. I'd like to put one there for normal people to be able to access, not for some elitist-only club. Can I still do that, or will this invisible, phantom cache block mine from being approved?

[Keystone]

Your cache needs to be 528 feet away from any physical elements of other caches, including Premium Members Only caches.  Fortunately the site tells you exactly how far away the PMO cache is located.

 

The harder part is being too close to hidden waypoints of puzzles and multicaches and such.  So, even the non-elitists can trip you up.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Go to Search,  put your proposed cache coords in the box.  You'll get a list of what's around, and how far.   Say  you thought N41 16.389  W091 21.425    looks good

 

Here's the search output with those coords loaded

https://www.geocaching.com/play/search/@41.27315,-91.357083?origin=N41+16.389++W091+21.425%09

 

and now you have a clue about the location of the PMO caches.

Doesn't help with hidden waypoints of staged caches.

 

[+lee737]

1 hour ago, Tyroq said:

..... for normal people to be able to access, not for some elitist-only club. Can I still do that, or will this invisible, phantom cache block mine from being approved?

 

Those 'elitists' are subsidising your (inexpensive) hobby.

and - no, you cant', and - yes, it will.

 

[+cerberus1]

Sometimes a nice email to your Reviewer with your coordinates might get a response,  a "maybe 40 feet more North or West and you'd be okay" kinda thing.

 - Of course it'd be a good idea if you didn't mention "elitist" in your email ...

[+cerberus1]

6 hours ago, Tyroq said:

I'd like to put one there for normal people to be able to access, not for some elitist-only club.

 

Most understand that placing your first hide can be frustrating.   

The majority of basic members we know use the website, which allows them to access all but pmo caches for free.

We stay premium even though we use little of the site's services (notifications mostly).  I don't even do pmo caches.

We'd like to think we help support the site in some way to keep this hobby free for our basic member friends .

 - And we know for fact that no basic members in our area consider us elitist...

[Tyroq]

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. Sorry if I sounded a bit salty in my post. It was frustrating, as @cerberus1 said, making so much progress toward placing my first cache only to hit an unexpected block that I didn't even know existed. It was like stepping on a landmine in an apparently empty field.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Cache placers now face many more challenges/landmines than when I started.  More land managers have geocaching policy,  more caches hidden, more with stages that a person doesn't see.  This site's guidelines are longer, and take following links to Help Center articles.  

There were around 1100 caches in Florida when I started, I doubt 100 of them were PMO. PMO is much commoner now.  I  noticed near to me a classic walk in the park series, all 1.5 1.5 and all PMO. 

 

When I started, it wasn't unreasonable to expect a hider to find all the staged caches in an area. Now, in many urban areas, that would be near a full time job. And even if you've done a lot of them,  you need your own database of their waypoints,  and to keep it updated. 

 

 

[+hzoi]

1 hour ago, Tyroq said:

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. Sorry if I sounded a bit salty in my post. It was frustrating, as @cerberus1 said, making so much progress toward placing my first cache only to hit an unexpected block that I didn't even know existed. It was like stepping on a landmine in an apparently empty field.

 

Been there.  In fact, I had it happen just last fall on what was at least our 200th cache.  And again a month or so later on a multi that wasn't there when I started planning but had been planted just before I finally created a listing.  Almost had it happen again this month with a cache that ended up being juuuuust outside that red circle - because I forgot about a traditional I'd found and hadn't plugged it into the GPSr when I was out in the woods sowing ammo cans.

 

In cases where you have found that perfect spot for a cache, and there is an existing cache nearby that is just a little too close, the reviewer may not have the flexibility to allow your cache to go forward, but you could try reaching out to the other cache owner to see if they might be able to adjust their location slightly to give you room.  Just remember, though, that if you enter that conversation, keep in mind that the other CO is fully in their rights to say no, thanks.

[+NanCycle]

14 minutes ago, hzoi said:

In cases where you have found that perfect spot for a cache, and there is an existing cache nearby that is just a little too close, the reviewer may not have the flexibility to allow your cache to go forward, but you could try reaching out to the other cache owner to see if they might be able to adjust their location slightly to give you room.  Just remember, though, that if you enter that conversation, keep in mind that the other CO is fully in their rights to say no, thanks.

 

As a Cache owner (currently the most prolific hider in my immediate area) if I were asked to move one of my caches a little bit, I would try to cooperate.  Allowing another cache to be hidden would give me another cache to find. 

[+noncentric]

On 4/27/2019 at 2:29 PM, Tyroq said:

So I've been geocaching for a couple years now and am ready to make my first cache. Everything was going fine getting permission and getting things set up until I checked the map on the pc version website and noticed on the side bar that there's apparently some invisible premium-only cache in the general vicinity of where I want to put mine. And of course, since I'm not premium I can't see it or even know its coordinates, and it doesn't even show up on the mobile app. So I have no way of knowing if mine would be too close or not. I'd like to put one there for normal people to be able to access, not for some elitist-only club. Can I still do that, or will this invisible, phantom cache block mine from being approved?

 

When a cache near a local library was archived, I wanted to place a library cache.  Before going through the permission process, I created a cache listing with "COORDINATE CHECK" as the cache name and used the coords of the library. In the Reviewer Note, I wrote something along the lines of "Before asking the library for permission, can you let me know if this location would be okay?  I haven't placed a cache there yet, so please do not publish."  I then Submitted the cache for review.  Once the Reviewer let me know that the location was okay, then I went through the process of getting permission, creating the cache materials, and writing up the cache page.

 

I have used that same "Coord Check" process for other hides, even when I was pretty sure there weren't any nearby caches. I would suggest using a similar process of checking coords with a Reviewer first, so that you don't end up 'wasting' time working on a cache placement that fails proximity rules.  And it's not just elitist (premium) caches that you need to worry about, but also the physical hidden waypoints of Multi and Mystery caches that could be non-PMO.

 

[+lee737]

3 hours ago, noncentric said:

I would suggest using a similar process of checking coords with a Reviewer first, so that you don't end up 'wasting' time working on a cache placement that fails proximity rules.

 

Definitely - we've been doing this for everything except simple traditional hides lately - it saves a lot of messing around retrieving containers.....

 

[+IceColdUK]

4 hours ago, noncentric said:

 

When a cache near a local library was archived, I wanted to place a library cache.  Before going through the permission process, I created a cache listing with "COORDINATE CHECK" as the cache name and used the coords of the library. In the Reviewer Note, I wrote something along the lines of "Before asking the library for permission, can you let me know if this location would be okay?  I haven't placed a cache there yet, so please do not publish."  I then Submitted the cache for review.  Once the Reviewer let me know that the location was okay, then I went through the process of getting permission, creating the cache materials, and writing up the cache page.

 

I have used that same "Coord Check" process for other hides, even when I was pretty sure there weren't any nearby caches. I would suggest using a similar process of checking coords with a Reviewer first, so that you don't end up 'wasting' time working on a cache placement that fails proximity rules.  And it's not just elitist (premium) caches that you need to worry about, but also the physical hidden waypoints of Multi and Mystery caches that could be non-PMO.

 

 

Just to add...  A coordinate check effectively reserves the location for you - for a limited time - before you actually submit the listing.  (I assume this doesn’t just apply to my area.)

[+Goldenwattle]

I recently had a LFL built and wanted to preserve the spot for a cache (it's a furnished TB Hotel with bedding) which was to be placed into the attic of the library. The reviewer said the position was available and preserved the spot for me. Now published.

[+The A-Team]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 2:38 AM, IceColdUK said:

Just to add...  A coordinate check effectively reserves the location for you - for a limited time - before you actually submit the listing.  (I assume this doesn’t just apply to my area.)

 

No, that should apply to any area. When you create a cache listing, reviewers can see it even before you submit it for review. If someone else then made a new listing too close to yours and submitted it, the reviewer could see your listing in their tools and your older listing would be given priority (within reason, I believe; I don't think they'll honour a listing that's been sitting unchanged for years). The reviewer would then contact you to ask if you still plan to submit your cache. If you respond that you are, the other listing will be rejected. If you respond that you don't need the spot anymore, then the other listing will be published. Basically, it's first-come, first-served. As soon as you think you might hide a cache somewhere, create the listing at least with rough coordinates to "save the spot".