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Jayeffel

etiquette and newbies

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How would a fairlyy seasoned cacher go about informing some new cacher about things.There is a group of teenage cachers in and around a nearby town, they are all teenage I believe. One goes looking for caches and never has a pen it seems, ok that happens. They are hiding a lot of caches, that is good. What is not so good is  there are at least five their caches I know of with no parking available and the roads are busy. T One cache was placed si=uch place and then archived shortly thereafter, another one of them put a new cache in that area, now disabled for some reason, but one of then logged it as found afterward. I don't think that is use unusual though. What I am wondering, and maybe without reason or even a fault, is they are throwing these caches out and then they  
"find " then first.- one is a co=owner of a cache and logged it as a find.

 

Just concerned that if they are approached  the wrong way bad feeling may arise.

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First, have a hard talk with yourself about what you're really complaining about. Is it really that bad? For example, when you complain about parking, are you just being car centric because there's a perfectly good sidewalk that goes past the cache?

 

One you really have a good understand of what the true problems are you're worried about, then just talk to them. Not as adult vs. teenager, but just as friends that geocache. A lecture about forgetting a pen won't be effective, but good natured ribbing about making this mistake over and over might pay off. Don't say you can't have a cache without parking, but point out that it looks difficult and dangerous to get there, and ask about how they suggest safely looking for the cache. Maybe they have a way, maybe that didn't think about that problem, but either way, they'll start thinking about the issue in the future.

 

Don't bother with the anomalies in finding each other's caches. If you think they're being cheesy, go ahead and express your opinion, but there's no reason to make a big deal out of some dubious finds and insider FTFs.

 

You're right to be worried about how they're approached, though, so I encourage you to step right in. It's become far too common for people to see any situation as being a slight against them, and that would drive a "mentor" to go into the conversation with a goal of forcing them to do it The Right Way instead of helping them see the issues and come to their own conclusions about how to best interact with the rest of the community.

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First, have a hard talk with yourself about what you're really complaining about. Is it really that bad? For example, when you complain about parking, are you just being car centric because there's a perfectly good sidewalk that goes past the cache?

 

These were all on country roads with no place to turn off, and they are pretty busy roads. Other cachers mentioned the parking problems, that is why bone archived the one.  I got three of them by parking about a quarter of a mile down one road and walking to each cache. 

 

One I did send a message concerning his one cache. it was a good one which I let him know. The problem was he had the host locked with a padlock and the key was hidden also. Where and how he hid it was the problem, a bare key hidden between a tree and a vine , lying on the ground. I told him the key would rust and may not be usable pretty soon. . He did change it, I think he has a note in a plastic bag hidden telling where the key is. I think he changed the name and it is now one of a series-- which I think I have two of before I noticed the series.

 

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19 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

These were all on country roads with no place to turn off, and they are pretty busy roads. Other cachers mentioned the parking problems, that is why bone archived the one.  I got three of them by parking about a quarter of a mile down one road and walking to each cache. 

OK. The point was that you think about exactly why this is a real problem and consider it from their point of view. I wasn't trying to talk you out of it being a problem, just suggesting you make sure to consider it from all angles.

 

20 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

One I did send a message concerning his one cache. it was a good one which I let him know. The problem was he had the host locked with a padlock and the key was hidden also. Where and how he hid it was the problem, a bare key hidden between a tree and a vine , lying on the ground. I told him the key would rust and may not be usable pretty soon. . He did change it, I think he has a note in a plastic bag hidden telling where the key is. I think he changed the name and it is now one of a series-- which I think I have two of before I noticed the series.

Sounds like you're well on the way to developing a productive relation with him. Good idea to start with encouragement so it's clear the negative comments are things that can be improved. It's too easy for a new CO to see any criticism as judgment, not suggestions.

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3 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

How would a fairlyy seasoned cacher go about informing some new cacher about things.

 - snip -

Just concerned that if they are approached  the wrong way bad feeling may arise.

 

I'd think most cachers feel that their log tells enough to alert the CO to issues.  Isn't that what it's for ? 

 

We've known about "team accounts" where members "find" each others caches (if their sigs aren't already in the log somewhere when placed...) for some time.

What would you feel you could do to "correct" that behavior ?    That "fine line between being helpful and a meddler" thing...

Most we know in this hobby just consider the source and forgetaboutit. 

 

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11 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

 

 

  I got three of them by parking about a quarter of a mile down one road and walking to each cache. 

 

 

Personally, I think the game would be better if it was required that the nearest parking was at least a quarter mile from the cache.  

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28 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Personally, I think the game would be better if it was required that the nearest parking was at least a quarter mile from the cache.  

I'm with you on this one.   The only real trouble I've ever had caching involved parking.   To me there's nothing more frustrating than driving around in circles looking for a safe, legal place to park.  Especially when the cache owner has already identified one but for some reason is unwilling to share it.     

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Parking coordinates are nice to have especially for caches in/near towns with parking restrictions. Most of the time we pick a spot from where we go caching for a whole day and we appreciate the CO's effort to give parking coordinates where can park for free (or very low rate) and no time restrictions.

Last weekend's caches didn't all have parking coordinates but when preparing the caching trip I used Streetview to find safe and legal parking. A somewhat early start of the day yielded a spot at a few 100m from Luxembourg City center (free weekends/holidays).

For the tour we did on Monday no parking was given but Streetview showed the start of a forest track near the first cache with space for 2-3 cars 20m off the main road.

 

Most of the time the quality of (or effort to make) a cachepage is an indication that parking coordinates/trailheads are given and attributes added. Listings with very little info often have no extra info.

 

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12 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

I'd think most cachers feel that their log tells enough to alert the CO to issues.  Isn't that what it's for ? 

You're making a good point, and the logs certainly shouldn't be overlooked as the way to provide feedback. While this is a good suggestion to the OP, the bigger question is how to express feedback, not which media should be used to deliver it. In addition, this case sounds like the newbies could use a mentor. That suggests establishing a personal relation so the OP is available for future questions so mistakes can be avoided instead of corrected.

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We had a group of teens like that a couple years ago. They placed a large amount of caches (poor containers, poorly placed), FTF'd each others', and didn't respond to NM logs. They lasted a season or so. Then they seemed to tire of it and disappeared, leaving their caches to rot out and be archived.

 

I agree with Cerebrus - there's a fine line between helping and meddling. Often one must just grit one's teeth and endure until they've moved on.

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3 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Personally, I think the game would be better if it was required that the nearest parking was at least a quarter mile from the cache.  

Personally, I think these problems with "beginner" caches would evaporate if there was a requirement for new Users to place their first 10 caches at least 5 miles from any road and a minimum of 1,000 feet of elevation gain ;)

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19 minutes ago, TriciaG said:

We had a group of teens like that a couple years ago. They placed a large amount of caches (poor containers, poorly placed), FTF'd each others', and didn't respond to NM logs. They lasted a season or so. Then they seemed to tire of it and disappeared, leaving their caches to rot out and be archived.

 

Same here. They put out a bunch of poorly placed caches but didn't FTF themselves. They would hide nearby and jump out when the FTF found their cache. No maintenance was ever done and reviewers archived their caches after a few NM's. Next school vacation they would place new caches. I think it took them 2 years to move on to the next hype.

 

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4 hours ago, justintim1999 said:
4 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

Personally, I think the game would be better if it was required that the nearest parking was at least a quarter mile from the cache.  

I'm with you on this one.   The only real trouble I've ever had caching involved parking.   To me there's nothing more frustrating than driving around in circles looking for a safe, legal place to park.  Especially when the cache owner has already identified one but for some reason is unwilling to share it.     

 

I think you misread my post.   I was suggesting that caches should be hidden at least a quarter mile from the cache, and a minimum.   With the proliferation of park-n-grabs and large power trails there seems to be an assumption that geocaching is a game which involves driving from cache to cache.  Having coordinates for a place to park is nice, but it doesn't have to be close to where the cache is hidden.   Even when I've included recommended parking coordinates for a cache, which would result in a nice walk down a little known trail, some will still try to park as close as possible to GZ.

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1 hour ago, Touchstone said:

Personally, I think these problems with "beginner" caches would evaporate if there was a requirement for new Users to place their first 10 caches at least 5 miles from any road and a minimum of 1,000 feet of elevation gain ;)

 

That would rule out geocaches in Florida, but I get your point.  

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1 hour ago, Touchstone said:

Personally, I think these problems with "beginner" caches would evaporate if there was a requirement for new Users to place their first 10 caches at least 5 miles from any road and a minimum of 1,000 feet of elevation gain ;)

 

It could be simplified to ...first 10 caches at least 1 km from any road.

 

I would love to see this become a rule.

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3 hours ago, Touchstone said:

Personally, I think these problems with "beginner" caches would evaporate if there was a requirement for new Users to place their first 10 caches at least 5 miles from any road and a minimum of 1,000 feet of elevation gain ;)

 

Cute idea. But then there'd be no caches in half the country because of the elevation gain idea 😉

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I don't know if there are events in your area or not, but if there are, invite them to come. Meeting face to face allows for non-verbal communications. "Hey, I really liked the location of such-and-such cache, but I had a hard time finding parking. Have you considered adding a parking location to your cache?" Via e-mail, or a log, my message might be interpreted differently than if I said this out loud, in front of them, when they are at an event related to geocaching.

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4 hours ago, Touchstone said:

Personally, I think these problems with "beginner" caches would evaporate if there was a requirement for new Users to place their first 10 caches at least 5 miles from any road and a minimum of 1,000 feet of elevation gain ;)

I never would have been able to hide a single cache.   I'm not at all able to do a 10 mile hike, let alone the 1000 ft elevation gain. 

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Posted (edited)
Quote

 there are at least five their caches I know of with no parking available and the roads are busy.

 

If they are teenagers, they may not be drivers, so don't consider parking?

Maybe they use public transport/bicycles/scooters/walk to get around.

Edited by Bear and Ragged
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On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 12:05 PM, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

I think you misread my post.   I was suggesting that caches should be hidden at least a quarter mile from the cache, and a minimum.   With the proliferation of park-n-grabs and large power trails there seems to be an assumption that geocaching is a game which involves driving from cache to cache.  Having coordinates for a place to park is nice, but it doesn't have to be close to where the cache is hidden.   Even when I've included recommended parking coordinates for a cache, which would result in a nice walk down a little known trail, some will still try to park as close as possible to GZ.

I see what you're saying.   I enjoy caches that involve a good hike myself but I'll stop short of intimating that my brand of caching is the best and only way to do it.    That's why I laugh when I hear people complain about the way others cache.   If they're caching within the rules and they're having fun than what's the problem?    For me the only down side to the park-n-grab mentality is fewer more traditional hides being hidden for me to find.           

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24 minutes ago, justintim1999 said:

For me the only down side to the park-n-grab mentality is fewer more traditional hides being hidden for me to find.

 

This is a good time for you to start hiding more caches you like.  👍

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3 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

This is a good time for you to start hiding more caches you like.  👍

 

That's a fine suggestion in theory.  In reality, the proliferation of power trails and park-n-grabs has already changed the local geocaching landscape in many areas to the point that a couple of cache owners "hiding caches you like" won't make any difference. When someone saturates a 10 mile long trail with fungible containers hidden the minimum distance apart, hiding a few caches off the beaten track won't make a bit of difference.   Quantity over Quality will never be able to compete with Quality over Quantity.   There are too many geocachers in it for the numbers that will ignore those caches that require a walk of a 1/4 or more just for one cache.   

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1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

That's a fine suggestion in theory.  In reality, the proliferation of power trails and park-n-grabs has already changed the local geocaching landscape in many areas to the point that a couple of cache owners "hiding caches you like" won't make any difference.

 

I am not talking about converting power trailers to hikers as you may think. If you like caches which are deep in the forest and you make a new cache which match your preferences, your intention is not to get all power trailers to visit your cache. You may be happy every time someone visits the cache with a nice log about the experience even there is only one visit per year.

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On 4/24/2019 at 7:00 AM, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Personally, I think the game would be better if it was required that the nearest parking was at least a quarter mile from the cache.  

I think that the OP was trying to infer that the placements were not a good idea from a safety perspective :

 

"What is not so good is  there are at least five their caches I know of with no parking available and the roads are busy." 

 

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4 hours ago, Michaelcycle said:

"What is not so good is  there are at least five their caches I know of with no parking available and the roads are busy." 

that is what I was referring to

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