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Pre-Release Notes (Website: Existing Search Map Retirement) - April 15, 2019

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Posted (edited)

There's something wrong here:

 

First is the view (but zoomed in a bit)  with the Browse Map and My Finds deselected


Second  is the View with the search map, the only option I have selected is "Not Found", everything else has all types, all D/T all sizes/ and no other restrictions;  but as you can see it is only returning Trads, and all the Mysteries have disappeared, and it has also dropped my three owned caches.

 

 
image.thumb.png.c90524da7523f4f72305b9ecb7694e38.png and you can see there are LOADS of Mystery caches, which aren't displayed on the Search map.

image.png

Edited by MartyBartfast

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Keystone said:

You do realize that you're replying to someone who has 14 times as many geocache finds as you do?

 

Not sure what that has to do with having an opinion as to how they'd like the website to function.  Hynz has been a member for 5 more years than the person he was replying to so definitely not a newb.

Edited by icezebra11
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15 hours ago, MrGigabyte said:

This is what I see. Not Found filter set (and have hit "Done"), yet what is returned are my FInds.

 

caches.jpg.jpg

 

It seems this is only occurring for some users, not all. We have filed a bug for this and are looking into this issue. 

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Another "bug".

 

I just went to map some lists  from the My Lists page, and this is what I get (the search results are that little cluster in the top left over the UK), though on another list I get a similar map but with the cluster over the UK over on the top right - either way it's wrong as the map should be centred on the centre of the list and zoomed in to a reasonable level such that all results are within the display.

BTW all caches on these lists are within the UK, there are no outliers in far flung countries.


image.thumb.png.f396abc68ba39b38b3df100c78827139.png

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1 hour ago, MartyBartfast said:

Another "bug".

 

I just went to map some lists  from the My Lists page, and this is what I get (the search results are that little cluster in the top left over the UK), though on another list I get a similar map but with the cluster over the UK over on the top right - either way it's wrong as the map should be centred on the centre of the list and zoomed in to a reasonable level such that all results are within the display.

BTW all caches on these lists are within the UK, there are no outliers in far flung countries.

 

I've seen similar, when mapping a list I get a much wider map view than what is contained in the list.  It doesn't happen every time, with every list.

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I can't confirm this weird zoom behaviour. My lists always zoom in pretty well:

 

16bf81dcd9cb7c4945446b05f8a233f7.png

 

Hans

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7 hours ago, Keystone said:

There is also an HQ team dedicated to obtaining input and feedback from "regular" users through surveys, in-person meetings, the "User Insights" forum, etc.

Speaking of that any news about the surveys about quality we did twice last year?

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16 hours ago, Hynz said:

The linked blog article from Jannuary (admittedly without mentioning a "browse map") states:

Quote

You can switch back and forth between the old and the new for awhile if you need to, but eventually the move to the new search map will be permanent.

 

I probably can live with an additional click to reach the map which to me and most of participants in this thread consider the at least equally important one but it would really hurt to switch it off before the new map is capable of truly "browsing" the map.

 

I think, and I hope, that the "old" they are referring to is the old search plotting map, not the Browse map. There is no 'new' browse map.  The new map is the new Search map.  If that's the case, then I hope, and expect, the Browse Map to remain indefinitely (no retiring plans seem to have been announced that I can recall).

 

This is why the functional use of these various views needs to be made absolutely clear by HQ. There's still far too much confusion...  Even though the first post explicitly describes the New Search Map, Old Search Map, and Browse Map.

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2 hours ago, The A-Team said:
  • There are a number of contrast issues. The main one is the continued use of low-contrast, faded grey text which started infecting the site in other places a few years ago. Also, the FP heart should be filled and coloured to match the rest of the site and apps (#consistency), and the unfilled boxes for the D/T/size are painfully faint even on a good monitor. As I was typing this, I also noticed that the "Download GPX" icon and text appear to be grey rather than black like the items on either side of it (#consistency again).

Yep, I was hoping that would've been fixed in the past 3 months, but yet "Download GPX" is still greyed-out. Greyed-out selections usually mean 'not available'. Not sure what it's supposed to mean here. What would be the reason for having that in grey, while other text is black.

 

Of course, I'm also disappointed that the Cache Status selections are still unchanged as well.  If no options are selected, then that means both are selected. But in other sections, like cache Type, each option has to be selected to be applied. I don't see how that is intuitive at all.

 

I also still find a lack of consistency with the filter selections. Check boxes for cache Type, fill boxes for cache Size, etc.  GeoTour selection is barely noticeable and would be more prominent if it was like the corrected coordinates section - indicate either on or off. Not the current slider that is barely even discernible whether it's yes or no.

 

 

2 hours ago, The A-Team said:
  • The "Placed by" item should be near the cache's name, not buried farther down. Combined with the first point above, the items at the top should be the cache name, GC code, placed by, and placed date.
  • The "Placed by" item should be a hyperlink to the CO's profile.
  • It's been mentioned before and is worth mentioning again: the cache type should be depicted by an icon, not text, in the selected-cache side bar. Reading text isn't nearly as fast to scan over as an easily-identifiable icon. If you really want the text, then have both an icon and text.

Agreed with all of this, and really all of The A-Team's post.

 

 

 

 

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When using this search

 

https://www.geocaching.com/play/map?lat=60.99505489265425&lng=25.704549999999927&zoom=11&asc=true&sort=distance&st=60.99472865018004%2C25.704549605624607

 

the result is this

 

Clipboard01.thumb.jpg.a97bce093855311906fe08f51aefcc0f.jpg

 

This is not a new problem but it will be more a problem when all searches ends up to this kind of results. All caches in this image are under 3 miles from the coordinates but the visible area is unnecessarily 25 miles tall.

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6 hours ago, arisoft said:

Ah-ha! Firefox 66.03 gives me a map nicely fitted around the caches. When I looked carefully, I realized my map is the same as yours, but I see more caches than you do. I'm set to 1000 caches, so they filled my map. I see you're still set to only 500 caches. My guess is that the map is sized for the maximum caches, but then it turns around and only shows the 500 caches you've asked for, hence the clustering in the center of an otherwise empty map.

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The number of caches is 250 only, as it says on the top left corner, "Select all 250". Zooming level should be mached to visible caches. :)

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2 hours ago, arisoft said:

The number of caches is 250 only, as it says on the top left corner, "Select all 250". Zooming level should be mached to visible caches. :)

Oh, yeah. I misread it. Little text, old eyes! Anyway, 1/4 fewer caches makes it even more plausible.

 

Yep, I agree 100% this is simply a bug.

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I'd really like to see the action section (Log button, Add to List/Download GPX/Send to Garmin) either above or below the Cache info sections.  Right now, the action section breaks up the flow of scanning the cache-specific information. Not only is there more left-to-right scanning, but also up-and-down scanning and scrolling.

 

The "View all n logs" button simply opens the cache page. Currently, this opens the cache page in the same window.  It should launch a new window.

 

After closing the cache details view in the left pane, to go back to the cache list, then the pane resets to the top of the cache list.  If I scroll halfway down the list to look at a cache and then want to look at the next one, then I have to scroll all the way down again. Can going "Back" to the cache list take the user back to the same position in the cache list that they were at before they selected a cache?

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On 4/16/2019 at 12:38 AM, K13 said:

As others are saying, I only want to open the Browse Map. I seldom use the Search Map.  WHY TAKE AWAY THIS MOST USEFUL LINK?!?!

^ this.

 

I very rarely search at all. I'm spatial - I use maps almost exclusively for things like this. The search map really isn't as effective as the browse map for the job I need I'm afraid.

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5 hours ago, Blue Square Thing said:

^ this.

 

I very rarely search at all. I'm spatial - I use maps almost exclusively for things like this. The search map really isn't as effective as the browse map for the job I need I'm afraid.

 

Reading this and the many other post regarding the search map/the browser map, I must say, that the browser map should be the default option. I never (very rarely) use the search function. When I use the map it is for browsing caches in a larger area.  Then please make the browse map the main map. If you then absolutely want to keep the search map, then insert a link based on the center coordinate of the actual browse map 😁 - but keep the browse map the main option.

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3 hours ago, Ulven7470 said:

Reading this and the many other post regarding the search map/the browser map, I must say, that the browser map should be the default option. I never (very rarely) use the search function. When I use the map it is for browsing caches in a larger area.  Then please make the browse map the main map. If you then absolutely want to keep the search map, then insert a link based on the center coordinate of the actual browse map 😁 - but keep the browse map the main option.

When I first reacted to this, I was thinking maybe I was an outlier, but I think every response has agreed with me that browsing is the main reason we use the map and that any kind of searching features on the map are, at best, useful only in special circumstances. I'd be interested to hear GS's reaction, particularly what source they got input to the contrary that convinced them to switch the emphasis to the search map.

 

I don't get the feeling this is any kind of bias caused old timers that post in the forums vs. newbies that we don't head from here. In fact, I think it's obvious that browsing is the more intuitive way to approach a map, and it's mainly experience geocachers that will even be able to understand the features the search map is providing.

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Just to again reiterate, there's no indication that the Browse map is going away, but rather that the issue is that HQ is implying the default map view will be new Search map, not the Browse map.  HQ isn't "taking away" the Browse map (hopefully ever), since that still seems to be what people are thinking?

 

But the points remains - the browse map should be the default map view, unless explicitly viewing results of a search, or desiring to do more details filtering and searching on a map. Link destinations in context matter.

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I just wanted to summarise my  position on this rollout in one place.

1. I almost solely use the Browse map, so for me it would be a requirement to have it available from a direct link, without having to go through the search pages (as seems to have been described above).

2. With the number of bugs and erroneous behaviour still being reported above I don't see how Groundspeak can seriously consider removing the old Search Map at this stage, it is surely imperative that all the bugs are ironed out before removing the alternative map?

3. The map layers in the new map are insufficient, you should add the same map layers that are available on the existing maps.

4. I was holding out some hope (in vain as it turns out) that the search functionality would be improved as the new searches are worked on and would include some of the options only available in PQ selections, such as the ability to search by attribtes.


All in all I don't think the new search map is anywhere near fit for purpose yet, so please don't remove the old maps yet!

 

And whatever you do please don't either attempt to force the new search map style onto the current browse map or ,even worse, remove the browse map.

 

 

 

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I don't use The App or any app but I'm interested to know ........

For an app user, the first logical question would seem to be "Is there a cache near here?"

Which screen comes next in an app - the search or the browse type map?

 

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55 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Just to again reiterate, there's no indication that the Browse map is going away, but rather that the issue is that HQ is implying the default map view will be new Search map, not the Browse map.  HQ isn't "taking away" the Browse map (hopefully ever), since that still seems to be what people are thinking?

I'm not seeing widespread confusion on this point. Besides, it's more a matter of attitude. Operationally there's very little difference between hiding the browse map and removing the browse map. Putting a feature in the background is the kind of thing one does when one wants the feature to go away, but wants to deflect complaints about removing it by claiming it's still available if the users know how to find it. I won't be surprised if the browse maps go the way of pocket queries: a little while after they introduced the API, they started rejecting complaints or suggestions about pocket queries because "that's the old stuff".

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, dprovan said:

Operationally there's very little difference between hiding the browse map and removing the browse map.

 

Um...

 

It could be that they're trying to reduce the usage of the "extra" maps that will soon be hidden away a bit farther from view.  Thunderforest (pricing) and presumably Esri charge more for more usage, and OSM could simply turn off access to the OSM Default map without warning if there's too much usage.  (OSM makes the latter available to support mappers, not end users.)

 

Maps, I'm sure, are a cost centre the bean-counters are keeping an eye on.  The existence of the custom Groundspeak/Trails map is almost certainly an attempt to keep that cost down.

 

Edited by Viajero Perdido
--ambiguity;
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22 minutes ago, dprovan said:

it's more a matter of attitude. Operationally there's very little difference between hiding the browse map and removing the browse map. Putting a feature in the background is the kind of thing one does when one wants the feature to go away, but wants to deflect complaints about removing it by claiming it's still available if the users know how to find it. I won't be surprised if the browse maps go the way of pocket queries

 

I know, I specifically didn't imply anything about it eventually going away - which it really should not do, functionally - even though we can infer that might be their ultimate (and undesireable) goal. My point was that people 'don't want to see it gone'. The announcement specifically said it wasn't going away. The issue is that it's saying the default map will become the Search map.

 

Yet:

Quote

We understand there are cases when you don’t have a specific location in mind and are just interested in browsing the map.

 

But these instances of the links changing:

On 4/15/2019 at 2:13 PM, Geocaching HQ said:
  • From the logged-in home page, click “Geocaching Map”.
  • From the website header menu, select “Play” > “View Map”.
  • Navigate to the Cache Details Page and scroll down and click “View Larger Map”. 

What hasn't been confirmed is that the default map by url will no longer be the Browse map. The above only states which links now redirect first to the Search map.  As long as /map remains, and doesn't push people to /play/map, then the Browse map will still be here.

 

And that's why we are all begging them (amongst slight confusion) not to make the default map the Search map. There should be two clear base features: The Browse Map, and the Search - which I suggest searching should continue to start with the current "Advanced search" entry form, resulting in the list, and then the jump to the Search Map.  If anything else, there could be a menu link that defaults a new search to, say, "Nearest 500 caches from Home" which would take you immediately to the Search Map.

 

The Search Map, IMO, should not be a default landing page anywhere, unless the preceding link describes what is being "searched".  Going there first just to click a link to the browse map is a waste of resources on everyone's end.

 

That means, per the above quoted instances, "Play > Map" shouldn't go to the new Search map, unless the link states the search (eg, "Play > Map nearest caches to home" vs say "Play > Browse map")

And preferably, "View larger map" from a listing's page should go to the Browse map. The other links explaining a search for - "of the same type", "nearby unfound", "hidden by this user", etc, would go to the Search map.

 

Perhaps a solution would just be to include "browse" or "search" in the link text to indicate where it's going. "Play > Browse map".  "Search nearby caches".  "Browse larger map".

"View" is too ambiguous a keyword in these links.

 

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42 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

"View" is too ambiguous a keyword in these links.

 

...especially since you're most likely to interact with it, not simply view it.

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On 4/18/2019 at 2:54 PM, Keystone said:
On 4/18/2019 at 11:18 AM, Hynz said:

Employees are making decisions and we would like to understand how do these employees get their information and reasoning ...

 

You do realize that you're replying to someone who has 14 times as many geocache finds as you do?

Wow :wacko: I never expected to read and even receive *such* an answer by one of my most respected representatives of this platform.

Thankfully I went straight to a long internet free weekend after my post ;)

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Oh how I hate to be the "wee, sma' voice" o' caution...but has no one thought that by relegating Browse to a secondary source point, the future is bright for costed 'upgrades' in function - much as occurred with Project GC? (I STILL can't get all of my FTF's to show up since that great day.)

 

On another score - when will the New API be set in stone? I'm still having infrequent belly-flops from the site, especially  with the Project GC interface (which I need for masny things, now) 😁

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Posted (edited)

The new map experience is <not good> compared to the old one.

 

What are you thinking?

Edited by Rock Chalk
Removed profanity.
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1 hour ago, Devar said:

What are you thinking?

 

Again, assuming you mean the Browse map, that is not going anywhere.  The Search map has more newer features for live filtering and mapping results. But it's not a browseable map. That one will remain usable just as it has been, according to the announcement; just linked a little deeper and not as a default map (a decision most here disagree with).  At this point, it's an extra click or two to get to, but (hopefully) still bookmarkable in the browser.

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Adding my vote to the making the Broused map the main map and the Search as secondary. As a few have noted, we can hear it now, that "not many use the Brouse map". Certainly thatwill happen if it's extra steps to get there. Been around "a few" years in the caching world and I'm a map geek who often uses satellite and terrain views. How about an option to opt out of the new Search page and default to the Brouse map? 😉

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Posted (edited)
On 4/18/2019 at 5:54 AM, Keystone said:

 

You do realize that you're replying to someone who has 14 times as many geocache finds as you do?

 

In addition to the many Lackeys with deep geocaching experience (I can think of three with a combined total of more than 65,000 cache finds), HQ has ready and continuous access to the Community Volunteer Reviewer group.  We tend to be very vocal, but respectful, beta testers and feedback sources for new features.

 

There is also an HQ team dedicated to obtaining input and feedback from "regular" users through surveys, in-person meetings, the "User Insights" forum, etc.

 

That's a rather elitist thing to say. 

 

I wasn't aware that their number of finds made someone's opinion more important than a player that "only" have 2-3K. 

You do realize that the vast majority of people that use this service are not reviewers or lackeys, right? 

 

Once again, we are being handed something that it appears the lower-class doesn't want. But, since we're clearly stuck with it (cuz, what do we know?), I have located what for me will be a big problem.

 

From my dashboard page (currently),  I click on the search in geocaching maps icon, and get there. Then, I use that map to look at maps of my PQ's, and another page to look at the non-filtered search map. This lets me add or remove caches from a search list for an upcoming road trip. 

 

Am I gonna be able to continue to map PQ's? Or has that very helpful ability been taken away?

 

The screenshot is the map I use to work on PQ's

Screenshot_4.jpg

Edited by Shop99er
cuz

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1 hour ago, Shop99er said:

Am I gonna be able to continue to map PQ's? Or has that very helpful ability been taken away?

I haven't seen them say anything in this discussion about removing functionality from the browse map, so I think the answers to your questions would be yes and no, respectively. How you get to the browse map may change, however, though that part is still unclear.

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Personally, I don't hold out a lot of hope for clarity.

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Use the old  saying "KISS" Keep it simple.  I am still using Windows7 and IE.  When I try to access the new map, I get a beautiful blank page.  And no, I'm not switching to Windows 10 or Google Chrome - so it's safe to say that my geocache count will remain as it was when they make the new map mandatory on 4/25.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Bigbee43 said:

Use the old  saying "KISS" Keep it simple.  I am still using Windows7 and IE.  When I try to access the new map, I get a beautiful blank page.  And no, I'm not switching to Windows 10 or Google Chrome - so it's safe to say that my geocache count will remain as it was when they make the new map mandatory on 4/25.

 

You do not need the map to find and log a cache. I have never used the map on the web site while Geocaching.

 

But don't worry. Microsoft is just about to publish a new version which will work on Windows 7.  https://betanews.com/2019/03/27/chromium-microsoft-edge-windows-7/

 

Edited by arisoft

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I'm confused by this "Browse Map" vs "Search Map" thing. Any time I want to see a map of geocaches I point my browser to https://www.geocaching.com/map/

 (I rarely ever click Play > View Map from the main website). Is that the "Browse Map" or the "Search Map"? I can browse caches from it yet it's also got a "Search for Geocaches" option. I wasn't even aware there were different kinds of maps. To me it's just "the map" which I use frequently.

 

I very very rarely use geocaching.com's search feature. If I want to search for caches I run a PQ for the criteria I need, or I browse the map to find areas (like parks and trails) where I want to cache.

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2 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

I'm confused by this "Browse Map" vs "Search Map" thing. Any time I want to see a map of geocaches I point my browser to https://www.geocaching.com/map/

 (I rarely ever click Play > View Map from the main website). Is that the "Browse Map" or the "Search Map"? I can browse caches from it yet it's also got a "Search for Geocaches" option. I wasn't even aware there were different kinds of maps. To me it's just "the map" which I use frequently.

 

That's the Browse Map. When you view the page, you have a persistent layer of icons which automatically displays anywhere you pan to worldwide, based on the icons that you have toggled in the sidebar for viewing. It's a very limited set of filtering options, but those few options make it possible to browse the worldwide map quickly and smoothly.  The Search field you have there merely moves the map to the location it determines from what you entered, that's it.

 

The Search Map is the view that displays a much more complex filtered search result of geocaches on the map. You get to that from the Advanced Search page which lists search results ( https://www.geocaching.com/play/search ) -- and that page allows you to plot your search results on the map, BUT that map includes all those same advanced search filters. Those filters are not available on the previous Browse Map.  The new search map is at https://www.geocaching.com/play/map )

 

It's certainly feasible that you've never used the search map before, because the only time you'd really use it is if A] you were pushed to it by HQ without opting in (and you'd have the option to opt out), B] you used the Advances Search filter page to plot your search results on the map, or C] you bookmarked the page and went there directly.

 

The change is now, apparently, that all map links will go to the new Search Map.  Including the "Play > View Map" that you use most often.  I'd recommend either getting used to the new Search Map, or else bookmarking the Browse Map (the /map url) to go to it directly (assuming HQ doesn't push users from that url to the new Search Map as well!)

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I didn't use the new map, untill now because I miss several options!

- Please do add the "Openstreetmap default" (I always use this one, it has far more detail!!)  and "Thunderforest Opencyclemap"

image.png.79d05dd5aeaf9be1eff4a154f13a6da8.png

- It is not handy I cannot just browse the map anymore. It must continuously be refreshed by clicking a button. Please add the option to see more than 1000 caches at a time, just like it is now.

- And what about the geoarts? If you have solved and found a mystery, It still shows the corrected coordinates and the geoart is gone. PErhaps it is better you can choose for that.

image.png.51a393ffe0ea096f13332ee62575b3dd.png image.png.0452cea005dc5d227b33a3f6b85d306e.png

image.png.2bef99c4f9d54e7c81e347cbb23b1d84.pngimage.png.66ce2ee4877faecca6fba5d096e8d22b.png

Please!!!

Geocaching searching the map it not so fun anymore with the new as it is currently

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6 hours ago, lemsterbende said:

- It is not handy I cannot just browse the map anymore. It must continuously be refreshed by clicking a button. Please add the option to see more than 1000 caches at a time, just like it is now.

 

You're looking at the Search Map. What you want is the Browse Map.  Go to http://www.geocaching.com/map to access that directly.  The Search Map is intended to plot search results, which is why you need to keep refreshing the results when you move the map (performing a new search from a central location)

 

This distinction is explained in the first post of this thread.

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10 hours ago, lemsterbende said:

And what about the geoarts? If you have solved and found a mystery, It still shows the corrected coordinates and the geoart is gone. PErhaps it is better you can choose for that.

 

I don't miss geo art but it is important to see both posted and corrected coordinates for many better reasons. Earlier the search map displayed corected coordinates and the browse map posted coordinates. For me this is good enough and I am glad that this feature has returned back.

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Hi,

 

I have Firefox 66.0.3 on Ubuntu Linux (64 bit) with strong privacy and security settings and got a blank screen when I clicked the play/map link. Through a process of elimination I found this is due to webgl being disabled on my browser. As there appears to be no way of enabling webgl on a site-by-site basis (but NoScript claims to be able to do that) I am reluctant to re-enable the setting in config, given that I always only use the browse map anyway.  Is there any reason the new map needs webgl when the browse map doesn't? It is the only page I've come across on the net that has failed due to requiring webgl.

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Hi,

 

Filter settings do not match.

I searched for D2.5/T4 and used the view on map button and the new map used D2/T4

 

https://www.geocaching.com/play/search/

Screenshot_20190425_100130.png.5aa952ad0ef6548efa3a1b4913f95955.png

https://www.geocaching.com/play/map

Screenshot_20190425_100224.thumb.png.b0e524f12868bb3ec8b8890ec311447b.png

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12 hours ago, ardila.nl said:

Hi,

 

Filter settings do not match.

I searched for D2.5/T4 and used the view on map button and the new map used D2/T4

I just tried it myself and it worked as expected. I wonder if it's the European number format with commas (ie. 2,5) that's causing it to not work correctly. I'm using the North American format (ie. 2.5) and it works.

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