Cache Carnival - no points awarded when "Write Note" changed to "Found It"

[+The Snowdog]

I did four virtual caches and an Earth Cache yesterday and logged them all from the field as "Write Note," then that evening submitted the required information to the COs and changed them to "Found It." None of these appear on my Leaderboard list; only the caches that I initially logged as "Found It" (one was an accident, I intended it to be a note) appear. It seems this issue crops up with all of the souvenir fests but I hadn't seen anyone post about it on this go around.

Edited March 28, 2019 by The Snowdog

[+The A-Team]

1 hour ago, The Snowdog said:

I did four virtual caches and an Earth Cache yesterday and logged them all from the field as "Write Note," then that evening submitted the required information to the COs and changed them to "Found It." None of these appear on my Leaderboard list; only the caches that I initially logged as "Found It" (one was an accident, I intended it to be a note) appear. It seems this issue crops up with all of the souvenir fests but I hadn't seen anyone post about it on this go around.

 I think this is the way souvenirs have worked for a long time, and I guess the Leaderboard acts the same.

 

Rather than log a note, you might want to consider using Field Notes Drafts to temporarily record your find until you get home and can turn it into a full log. This also allows the CO to see your log in the notification email they get, rather than the content of the placeholder note.

[+K13]

In cases like you describe, or when I manage a FTF, I will log a WN from the field, then when I get to my computer I submit a Found It log, leaving the note.

CO gets a new notification of my real log.

[+Corfman Clan]

19 minutes ago, K13 said:

In cases like you describe, or when I manage a FTF, I will log a WN from the field, then when I get to my computer I submit a Found It log, leaving the note.

CO gets a new notification of my real log.

Then why not just write a found it, then later write another found it and delete the first?

[+CAVinoGal]

7 hours ago, The Snowdog said:

I did four virtual caches and an Earth Cache yesterday and logged them all from the field as "Write Note," then that evening submitted the required information to the COs and changed them to "Found It."

 

I do "Drafts" in the field - and then log from my computer at home when I can write a proper log.  The CO sees only the Found It log; when changing from a Note to a Find, the CO would only get a notification of the Note, not the change to a Find log - and perhaps that's why the points are not showing either.  Try adding a separate Find log as K13 suggested, or a draft that only logs a Find log once you  actually log it.

 

It seems that changing to a Found it log from any other log doesn't trigger the points or the souvenirs - it has to be a Found it log initially.

 

[+noncentric]

Changing other log types to "Found It" logs has not activated Friend League Leaderboard points for several, or even all, of the promotions.

 

As noted in the Cache Carnival FAQ:

 

Quote

 

My Leaderboard points aren’t correct. Help!

1. If you change a Note, DNF, or other log type to a Found it log, it will not be recognized on the Leaderboard.
2. You may have found and logged a Lab Cache. At this time, the Leaderboard does not award points for finding Lab Caches.
3. You logged on Monday, March 25 before noon UTC (convert to your local time here). We suggest that you wait to log until AFTER Monday noon UTC – which in some places like New Zealand is Tuesday at midnight – to log your geocaches. Otherwise the points will not count for the first week.
4. You saved a Draft on a Monday, March 25 before noon UTC.

If you have already posted your logs, select “View / Edit Log / Images”, then click the pen icon and “Submit Log Entry” on the website. Your logs should now be counted towards your total.

 

 

 

 

[+Mineral2]

On 3/28/2019 at 9:21 PM, K13 said:

In cases like you describe, or when I manage a FTF, I will log a WN from the field, then when I get to my computer I submit a Found It log, leaving the note.

CO gets a new notification of my real log.

When you create a field note/draft, it actually gets stamped with the time of your find so that when you do get around to submitting the log, it will show up as the first log (if you are FTF), in case anyone else comes and logs in between your find and the time that you actually log it.

[+K13]

3 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

When you create a field note/draft, it actually gets stamped with the time of your find so that when you do get around to submitting the log, it will show up as the first log (if you are FTF), in case anyone else comes and logs in between your find and the time that you actually log it.

 

I use the WN as a courtesy to other FTF junkies. Usually something like "Found at <time>, real log later." Of course, that only applies where there is phone signal available.

[+Corfman Clan]

19 hours ago, K13 said:

 

I use the WN as a courtesy to other FTF junkies. Usually something like "Found at <time>, real log later." Of course, that only applies where there is phone signal available.

Since it's a note, and not a found it, how courteous can it be? Seriously, I look to see if the cache is found, not whether someone wrote a note or not. Seems you should just write a found it and later edit it or delete it and then write a new found it.

[+K13]

6 hours ago, Corfman Clan said:

Since it's a note, and not a found it, how courteous can it be? Seriously, I look to see if the cache is found, not whether someone wrote a note or not. Seems you should just write a found it and later edit it or delete it and then write a new found it.

I don't edit logs because the CO doesn't get notified and likely never sees the edited log.

 

[+barefootjeff]

8 minutes ago, K13 said:

I don't edit logs because the CO doesn't get notified and likely never sees the edited log.

 

 

If I get a "field log - more to come" log, I'll make a point of going to the cache page later on to see if the log has been updated. Actually I do that with most logs I receive to see if there might be any photos uploaded after submission. But then most of my caches rarely get found (half haven't had any finds so far this year) and receiving a find notification email on them is one of those rare special things, so it might be a different story if I got dozens of find logs each day.

 

Around here, the "field log - more to come" is mostly just used for FTF notifications, and owners of brand new caches are probably going to be keeping a close watch on their cache page anyway.

[+The Snowdog]

On 3/30/2019 at 6:12 PM, Mineral2 said:

When you create a field note/draft, it actually gets stamped with the time of your find so that when you do get around to submitting the log, it will show up as the first log (if you are FTF), in case anyone else comes and logs in between your find and the time that you actually log it.

 

Which is why I do it - that time stamp keeps my sequence correct. If I'm doing a mix of cache types I'll post "Found It" for traditionals and solved puzzles and multis and such but "Write Note" for virtuals and Earth Caches and challenge caches, for which emails must be sent for proof of visit or challenge completion proof posted or whatever. Then that evening once I am back at the PC I can go through the logs, write full entries, email whatever needs to be emailed or post whatever proof is needed for the challenge, and change the "Write Note" to "Found It" and the sequence is as it should be. 

 

I once inadvertently posted a terse "Found it" on a challenge cache (instead of the intended note) and the CO deleted the log before I got back home. It is still the only time that I've ever had a log deleted. Surprising, since I'd done several of that CO's challenge caches that day and he'd seen the same "more later" notes posting all afternoon.

Edited April 2, 2019 by The Snowdog

[+NYPaddleCacher]

On 3/31/2019 at 6:50 PM, Corfman Clan said:

Since it's a note, and not a found it, how courteous can it be? Seriously, I look to see if the cache is found, not whether someone wrote a note or not. Seems you should just write a found it and later edit it or delete it and then write a new found it.

 

In a FTF scenario, there are no logs other than the reviewer note.  Does it really matter if a log is a Found It or Note?   Posting *any* logs on a cache while out in the field is a courtesy that conveys the state of the cache in near real time.   Not courteous enough?  Seriously?

[+arisoft]

12 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

In a FTF scenario, there are no logs other than the reviewer note.  Does it really matter if a log is a Found It or Note?

 

Yes it does. You may not know but there are 3th party services which displays all unfound caches for FTF-hunters and other intrest groups. If you log a note only, there is no indication that the cache has already found. Sometimes a note is used especially to keep the cache on a such list a little bit longer.

[+thomfre]

15 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

Yes it does. You may not know but there are 3th party services which displays all unfound caches for FTF-hunters and other intrest groups. If you log a note only, there is no indication that the cache has already found. Sometimes a note is used especially to keep the cache on a such list a little bit longer.

That is a problem with the 3rd party service then. There's so many services, and many of them work in different ways. I don't think we should expect everyone to follow requirements they don't even know exists. Writing FTF-notes have been common in Norway as long as I've been geocaching, and that's what we here consider courteous enough.

Edited April 3, 2019 by thomfre

[+IceColdUK]

1 hour ago, arisoft said:

 

Yes it does. You may not know but there are 3th party services which displays all unfound caches for FTF-hunters and other intrest groups. If you log a note only, there is no indication that the cache has already found. Sometimes a note is used especially to keep the cache on a such list a little bit longer.

 

If I rushed out for a cache in this scenario, I’d be more annoyed with myself for not reading the logs, than with the person who’d left the WN.

[+Mineral2]

From the standpoint of the website, there's no data suggest a cache has been found until a found-it log has been posted. Until then, it's technically up for FTF grabs.

[+IceColdUK]

2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

From the standpoint of the website, there's no data suggest a cache has been found until a found-it log has been posted. Until then, it's technically up for FTF grabs.

 

Surely a Write Note saying ‘I found it’ suggests a cache has been found?  If you see that and still head out with any expectation of an FTF, I’d say that’s pretty optimistic.

Edited April 3, 2019 by IceColdUK

[+thomfre]

2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

From the standpoint of the website, there's no data suggest a cache has been found until a found-it log has been posted. Until then, it's technically up for FTF grabs.

If we're looking at it that way, is there even a thing called FTF? There are no official rules. I can write FTF in all my logs if I want to. First to Find (this hour), Fifth to Find, Fourth to Find (today) etc.

[+The A-Team]

There's always the way that most places do it: you log your find when you can, and those who head out for a FTF do so with the knowledge that someone may have already beaten them to the punch.

 

I fear this is veering wildly off-topic, though.

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by The A-Team

[+noncentric]

On 3/30/2019 at 4:12 PM, Mineral2 said:

When you create a field note/draft, it actually gets stamped with the time of your find so that when you do get around to submitting the log, it will show up as the first log (if you are FTF), in case anyone else comes and logs in between your find and the time that you actually log it.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case.  Have you actually tested this scenario?

 

If CacherA creates a Draft at 1pm, then CacherB posts a Found It at 2pm, and then CacherA submits their Draft as a log at 8pm - then CacherB's Find will show up before CacherA's Find on the cache page. Assuming that CacherA and CacherB submit their logs via the same platform (website vs app).  What I've found is that the Drafts page shows the time the Draft was created, but logs show up in the order that the Drafts are submitted (or Posted), although logs submitted via the app sometimes show up on the cache page before logs submitted via the website.

[+The A-Team]

23 hours ago, noncentric said:

What I've found is that the Drafts page shows the time the Draft was created, but logs show up in the order that the Drafts are submitted (or Posted), although logs submitted via the app sometimes show up on the cache page before logs submitted via the website.

 

This matches my experience. A Draft doesn't "save your spot" on the cache listing.

[+funkymunkyzone]

On 4/4/2019 at 1:34 AM, thomfre said:

That is a problem with the 3rd party service then. There's so many services, and many of them work in different ways. I don't think we should expect everyone to follow requirements they don't even know exists. Writing FTF-notes have been common in Norway as long as I've been geocaching, and that's what we here consider courteous enough.

 

No, even the geocaching website.  If you have a PQ saved for unfound caches that you can go to and view the map of results, it will still show as unfound the caches that only have write notes on them.  If a cache is found, why not write a Find Log?... it's quite literally *the* intended way to announce that the cache has been found.

 

Otherwise, why not use all sorts of random log types... why not use DNF whenever you want to write a note to add a comment on a cache page - after all, you're just writing a note and didn't actually go out and find it at that time, so semantically it's correct... lol

 

[+thomfre]

2 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

 

If a cache is found, why not write a Find Log?... it's quite literally *the* intended way to announce that the cache has been found.

 

Otherwise, why not use all sorts of random log types... why not use DNF whenever you want to write a note to add a comment on a cache page - after all, you're just writing a note and didn't actually go out and find it at that time, so semantically it's correct... lol

 

I do write a found log. But I like to log my finds in chronological order, and I like to log using my computer.

 

As a courtesy to others, I leave a note when I'm FTF. This way, I get to log the way I prefer, and people can see the note if they want to. This is how everyone's doing it here. If that's not good enough for you, that's really not my problem...

[+funkymunkyzone]

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 11:59 AM, thomfre said:

I do write a found log. But I like to log my finds in chronological order, and I like to log using my computer.

 

As a courtesy to others, I leave a note when I'm FTF. This way, I get to log the way I prefer, and people can see the note if they want to. This is how everyone's doing it here. If that's not good enough for you, that's really not my problem...

 

You said it was a problem with 3rd party services.  It's not.  Groundspeak's own website considers a cache as found only when there's a found it log, not when there's a note.  So there's no need ot get all smart a** and "If that's not good enough for you, that's really not my problem..." about it.  The way I see it, if you want to rush out and FTF a cache and you have enough internets to post a note, why not post a found it, unless you actually just want to have lols when someone else thinks the cache is still unfound...

 

[+thomfre]

2 hours ago, funkymunkyzone said:

 

You said it was a problem with 3rd party services.  It's not.  Groundspeak's own website considers a cache as found only when there's a found it log, not when there's a note.  So there's no need ot get all smart a** and "If that's not good enough for you, that's really not my problem..." about it.  The way I see it, if you want to rush out and FTF a cache and you have enough internets to post a note, why not post a found it, unless you actually just want to have lols when someone else thinks the cache is still unfound...

 

I already explained why. I log my finds in chronological order, on my computer - not on my phone. I can have 10-1000 finds I have to log before I submit the Found it-log on the cache i just found first.

The way I see it, if you want to rush out and FTF a cache, you read the logs first. Then you put it on watch list, and you'll get an email no matter what type of log someone write.

FTF is not something the main site caters for (I wonder why?), so if a 3rd-party service provide some kind of indication specifically for FTF-hunters, that service should look at how large parts of the community handle this - and look at notes as well. People should generally start reading cache descriptions and logs again...

And if you can't accept the way most people I've met handle the FTF game, that is really not my problem. Maybe you should look at the way you act yourself now.

Edit: there's no requirement to log the find as soon as I've found a cache (or before, as some people do). I can log whenever I want. I only log the write note as a courtesy to other FTF hunters. I could have logged nothing, and waited until I got home. Would you prefer that instead?

Edit2: From the help center:

Quote

FTF (First to Find). While FTF is a fun, community-driven aspect of the game, it is not officially recognized by Geocaching HQ.

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by thomfre

[+funkymunkyzone]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 6:38 PM, thomfre said:

Maybe you should look at the way you act yourself now.

Or maybe you should.  I'm not the one making snarky comments.