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bflentje

Ireland versus Northern Ireland

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Posted (edited)

I would expect that if all cache finds on the island of Ireland are in fact considered Ireland and there is no discernment between Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland (UK) that the map would actually be properly colored in. But it's not. Twelve or so of my 19 Irish finds were well into Northern Ireland. A bug discussed in the past?

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Edited by bflentje

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11 hours ago, bflentje said:

I would expect that if all cache finds on the island of Ireland are in fact considered Ireland and there is no discernment between Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland (UK) that the map would actually be properly colored in. But it's not. Twelve or so of my 19 Irish finds were well into Northern Ireland. A bug discussed in the past?

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I think I've seen it mentioned before.   The boundary data for the maps has Northern Ireland as part of the UK, while GS has the region of Northern Ireland as part of the Island of Ireland.  If you would have found caches in England, Scotland, or Wales the map would be colored in for Northern Ireland as well.  Why GS includes Northern Ireland as part of the island and not the UK is explained here.

 

IF I recall there is a similar hole in the map for caches found in Kosovo

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On 3/25/2019 at 11:00 AM, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

I think I've seen it mentioned before.   The boundary data for the maps has Northern Ireland as part of the UK, while GS has the region of Northern Ireland as part of the Island of Ireland.  If you would have found caches in England, Scotland, or Wales the map would be colored in for Northern Ireland as well.  Why GS includes Northern Ireland as part of the island and not the UK is explained here.

 

IF I recall there is a similar hole in the map for caches found in Kosovo

 

Yes.    

 

Groundspeak uses a standard political map of the world.   But as they use a different definition of "Ireland", it causes issues with the maps.

 

I have them both filled in, but that's only because I've found caches in the UK as well as Ireland.    (Though as I've found more in the UK, Northern Ireland is coloured darker than the rest of Ireland).  

 

 

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The maps in the stats use Google Charts to display. Since geocaching.com uses a different definition of Ireland/UK than Google does, we get this mismatch. The maps would need to be replaced with different, customizable visualization software in order to show this correctly, so it isn't something that can be fixed quickly.

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Sounds like you should file a bug over on the website forum. Love to hear what they have to say. 

 

Northern Ireland

Kosovo

 

Also let them know Jervis Bay Territory Australia is also mis-identified with some caches listed in two different yet wrong localities.

 

Any where else?

 

Many countries may complain about Antarctic Territories not listed properly too. Ah politics. Glad Taiwan is still Taiwan.

 

Love maps I guess that's one reason I like geocaching. Would love to get the Easternmost cache in the US, hint it's technically in Alaska. 

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5 hours ago, MNTA said:

Sounds like you should file a bug over on the website forum. Love to hear what they have to say. 

 

Northern Ireland

Kosovo

 

Also let them know Jervis Bay Territory Australia is also mis-identified with some caches listed in two different yet wrong localities.

 

Any where else?

 

Many countries may complain about Antarctic Territories not listed properly too. Ah politics. Glad Taiwan is still Taiwan.

 

Love maps I guess that's one reason I like geocaching. Would love to get the Easternmost cache in the US, hint it's technically in Alaska. 

 

The northern Ireland issue isn't a bug.  It was a conscience decision to characterize Northern Ireland geographically rather than politically.  

 

However, the maps on those pages haven't changed for a very long time, and maps used on other statistics sites (GSAK, project-gc) are vastly superior.  

 

I believe that "easternmost" and "western most" are relative to the Greenwich mean line.  While the cache may be in the US, it's location is not relative to a center point in the U.S. 

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It's a bit strange to play with political boundaries (and I bet it was done EXACTLY for political reasons, a mischievous republican) but it's somewhere I'm never likely to go so I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

Yes east and west will be calculated from Greenwich - nice bit of trivia that Alaska is the northernmost, westernmost and easternmost state in the USA...

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9 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

I believe that "easternmost" and "western most" are relative to the Greenwich mean line.  While the cache may be in the US, it's location is not relative to a center point in the U.S. 

 

Correct. Since the 180 degree line crosses the Aleutians, the point with the most easterly longitude is at the exact same spot as the most westerly. Unfortunately, there's no land at that point, so it would be very tricky to hide a cache right on the line.

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I wonder what citizens of the USA would feel if their caches were categorised as Canada?

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2 minutes ago, eejaymm said:

I wonder what citizens of the USA would feel if their caches were categorised as Canada?

 

What an odd first post...

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1 minute ago, cerberus1 said:

 

What an odd first post...

Insisting that Northern Ireland is Ireland is odd is all I'm saying. Its part of the UK

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On 4/27/2019 at 11:31 AM, eejaymm said:

Insisting that Northern Ireland is Ireland is odd is all I'm saying. Its part of the UK

They are not saying that. They're saying that Northern Ireland is part of the island or Ireland, which it is.  It's a difference of geographical vs political delineations and it was not a decision made in a vacuum.  See HERE.

 

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On 4/27/2019 at 11:31 AM, eejaymm said:

Insisting that Northern Ireland is Ireland is odd is all I'm saying. Its part of the UK

Welllllllllll I have an interesting take on this most confusing situation.  Imagine this:

 

On a ship bound from George Town, Grand Cayman to Havana, Cuba had a most pleasant conversation with a shipmate.  After commenting on the "lilt" of their speech I inquired as to whether or not they were from the U.K.  WELLLLLLLLL, the conversation turned rather frosty as I was summarily informed NO ... I AM FROM NORTHERN IRELAND.

 

Does not address the map issue, however, does underscore geo-political and culturally sensitive issues.  Hey what do I know ... I like hockey and maple syrup. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, humboldt flier said:

Welllllllllll I have an interesting take on this most confusing situation.  Imagine this:

 

On a ship bound from George Town, Grand Cayman to Havana, Cuba had a most pleasant conversation with a shipmate.  After commenting on the "lilt" of their speech I inquired as to whether or not they were from the U.K.  WELLLLLLLLL, the conversation turned rather frosty as I was summarily informed NO ... I AM FROM NORTHERN IRELAND.

 

Does not address the map issue, however, does underscore geo-political and culturally sensitive issues.  Hey what do I know ... I like hockey and maple syrup. 

 

 

 

This cracks me up! But ....

 

United Kingdom officially the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, humboldt flier said:

Welllllllllll I have an interesting take on this most confusing situation.  Imagine this:

 

On a ship bound from George Town, Grand Cayman to Havana, Cuba had a most pleasant conversation with a shipmate.  After commenting on the "lilt" of their speech I inquired as to whether or not they were from the U.K.  WELLLLLLLLL, the conversation turned rather frosty as I was summarily informed NO ... I AM FROM NORTHERN IRELAND.

 

Does not address the map issue, however, does underscore geo-political and culturally sensitive issues.  Hey what do I know ... I like hockey and maple syrup. 

 

 

You should come visit New York again.   I've got seasons tickets to a NCAA D1 hockey team that is always competitive.

 

Did you do any geocaching in Cuba?

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5 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

You should come visit New York again.   I've got seasons tickets to a NCAA D1 hockey team that is always competitive.

 

Did you do any geocaching in Cuba?

Off topic,

   Hi again ... yes to caching in Cuba ... despite urban myth to the contrary GPS'r was not viewed askance by any of the "regulators' at ports of entry.

 

Yes to the Finger Lakes Region again.   "film at 11"

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Havr they played the match yet? Who won, Ireland or North Ireland?

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18 hours ago, humboldt flier said:

Off topic,

   Hi again ... yes to caching in Cuba ... despite urban myth to the contrary GPS'r was not viewed askance by any of the "regulators' at ports of entry.

 

Yes to the Finger Lakes Region again.   "film at 11"

 

Urban myth?  Unless something has changed since last year it is illegal to bring a GPSr (cell phones with a GPS are okay) into Cuba.  If you do come to the FInger Lakes again I can tell you a story about how my use of a GPS had a real, negative, influence on my first trip to Cuba.

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3 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:
22 hours ago, humboldt flier said:

Off topic,

   Hi again ... yes to caching in Cuba ... despite urban myth to the contrary GPS'r was not viewed askance by any of the "regulators' at ports of entry.

 

Yes to the Finger Lakes Region again.   "film at 11"

 

Urban myth?  Unless something has changed since last year it is illegal to bring a GPSr (cell phones with a GPS are okay) into Cuba.  If you do come to the FInger Lakes again I can tell you a story about how my use of a GPS had a real, negative, influence on my first trip to Cuba.

 

Still haven't been down to Cuba, so can't say from my experience, but according to this tripadvisor forum post, Cuba may have softened its attitude on commercial GPS receivers.

 

The main respondent there actually got an email from the National Office of Hydrograpy and Geodesy to show the customs officials, so that might be handy to have in one's back pocket if customs is having a bad day and wants to confiscate.

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2 hours ago, hzoi said:

 

Still haven't been down to Cuba, so can't say from my experience, but according to this tripadvisor forum post, Cuba may have softened its attitude on commercial GPS receivers.

 

The main respondent there actually got an email from the National Office of Hydrograpy and Geodesy to show the customs officials, so that might be handy to have in one's back pocket if customs is having a bad day and wants to confiscate.

 

I used to follow that tripadvisor forum pretty much every day when I was planning my trips to Cuba (one last year, one in 2016).  There are some very knowledgeable people on that forum and quite a few that will gladly offer advise  when "I was able to get away with it,  so it must be okay".    Threads in the forum can be sorted by oldest or newest and one needs to make sure that you're looking at the most recent posts.   Someone posted this in January, 2019:  

 

"Hello, just returned from Varadero Cuba (Jan 6 2019) and can state emphatically, that you cannot take a small personal GPS unit with you. I declared my 2002 Garmin Etrex GPS unit, and once they read the declaration, pulled me into a holding area, confiscated it, and made me pay a $3 CUC per day storage fee to get it back!'

 

Since a smart phone with a GPS works fine for geocaching in Cuba, it's just not worth taking in a handheld GPS.  As someone else mentioned, a smart phone with the Maps.me app is a great way to use a phone for navigation while in Cuba.  Just remember to pre-download the maps you'll need before entering the country.   

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Posted (edited)

April 2019:

 

       Disembarked and through customs in Cienfuegos, Cuba and on to Trinidad, Cuba ... no hassles with regards to my Garmin 62 S units.

 

       Disembarked and through customs in Havana, Cuba and on to Veradero, Cuba ... similarly no hassles with regards to the same units.

 

I fully expected a rebuff at the port of Havana, Cuba, however, such was not the case.  Perhaps my bright beaming smile won the customs folks over. ORRRRRRRR denying that I knew the NY PaddleCacher might have held some sway.  ( Hi John ... have a great day )

 

I think we might need to start a Cuba thread.   Anyway back to the Ireland / N. Ireland thread we must go. Lest we "have troubles".

 

Perhaps the sheer 

Edited by humboldt flier
correcting the blasted spell checker

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"The Troubles"

 

    "The Troubles was an ethno-nationalist conflict in Northern Ireland during the late 20th century"  for those who did not get the tangential reference in the preceding post.

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