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Huh...I have to pay?

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On 9/19/2020 at 2:27 AM, mustakorppi said:

How long since you guys have actually tried the basic member experience on the official app? Or downloading all your caches as individual gpx files to your gpsr I guess. 

When I started I had neither a smart phone or a hand held GPS, so forget having an app. I printed out the cache on the back of waste paper. I did have a car GPS (they are no good away from the road) which got me close to the cache, but then I had to check the print out of the map and look for other ways to find the cache, such as to attempt to track where others had walked. Sometimes I just stood back and thought, where would I hide a cache. I found 180 caches this way, before I bought a GPS. Then I also paid my first membership. That's when I discovered caches I hadn't been able to see. Was I upset about this? Absolutely not; I thought it was wonderful I hadn't been able to see them, as now I had another set of caches close to home (when I thought I had found them all) I could enjoy finding. I considered them an unexpected present.

I didn't get an app until two or three years ago, as phone data was too expensive to buy. But I continued to pay a membership, because the site doesn't run on the fun people are having; it needs hard, cold cash. Over several years, the GPS was far cheaper than paying data on a phone. And I still have and use a GPS.

Edited by Goldenwattle

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9 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

The more "free" something is to use, the more "we" become the products because income has to be generated from advertising and generally invasive content.

 

There are tools for that. All tracking/ads/cookies/scripts are off by default except when I allow them.

 

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3 hours ago, mustakorppi said:

But I have strongly hinted that yes, you do have to pay it to make geocaching at all viable. Bragging about how hard you had it back in the day is not a convincing counterargument. People playing Adventure Labs for free right now don’t have to go uphill both ways in the snow to do it.

 

This is how my caching days generally play out:

  • I look at the Browse map (not the Search map) to see what caches might be interesting in the place I'm visiting - A BASIC MEMBER CAN DO THAT (apart from PMO caches)
  • I open those cache pages on my PC, read through the descriptions and look at recent logs - A BASIC MEMBER CAN DO THAT
  • I download the GPX files onto my Garmin - A BASIC MEMBER CAN DO THAT
  • I head off to my destination, turn on the Garmin and try to find those caches - A BASIC MEMBER CAN DO THAT
  • When I get home, I turn on my PC and compose my logs for the day - A BASIC MEMBER CAN DO THAT

The only difference being a PM makes to my typical caching day is being able to see PMO caches and, if there's a bunch of related caches in the area I'm visiting, being able to run a PQ instead of downloading each one individually. The rest of the PM "benefits" are fairly peripheral to my enjoyment of the game, but I'm still happy to pay my $A52.08 each year for them and to support the hobby.

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I became a premium member because I enjoyed a cache so much I wanted to give it a favourite point.  That was back in 2012 and I just keep giving FPs.

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7 hours ago, mustakorppi said:

But I have strongly hinted that yes, you do have to pay it to make geocaching at all viable.

Okay, I give up. What does it take for geocaching as a basic member to be "at all viable"?

 

Because the techniques I've used to find hundreds of caches as a basic member are still available.

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9 hours ago, mustakorppi said:

But I have strongly hinted that yes, you do have to pay it to make geocaching at all viable.

Bragging about how hard you had it back in the day is not a convincing counterargument. 

 

That's odd... our first hundred or so FTFs were as basic members.   That's not successful ?     :)   

We became PM just for notifications.  Our caching wasn't affected at all.   I still load caches manually.  

My pm money goes to keeping basic membership free.

No bragging of how hard things were here.  Other than quitting beta-testing for newbs with no clue, caching hasn't changed that much.  ;)

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I was a basic member for about 4 hours. I found a cache with a mate, as a basic member, went home and looked up the website - 'wait? there's more?' - 'shut up and take my money!'. Haven't regretted it for a second. I make heavy use of pocket queries/notifications/FPs etc. My eldest son got his own account a few months after, premium, my youngest son in the past year or so - another premium..... they want to be able to hand out FPs too..... Even with three premium memberships to cough for, its still a cheap part of our geocaching year.

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1 hour ago, lee737 said:

.. Even with three premium memberships to cough for, its still a cheap part of our geocaching year.

I guess it's a lot cheaper than joining the local kids' soccer club.

Edited by colleda
puntuation
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I think I would be more at peace with the monthly fee (I live where a yearly membership doesn’t make sense because there are few available caches in the wintermonths) if we got a discount for creating and maintaining caches.  There is quite a cost for upkeep in time and money.  While it is fun, it is work. I have over a dozen that I watch over, and have done so for years.  Gas, supplies, logs, replacement containers, etc.  Without those of us creating the caches, this sport wouldn’t exist for the finders, and are we not as important to the process as those who maintain the website/app and put work into that side of things?  
I have also been caching since the days of entering codes into GPS, but these days, I’m more likely to do it casually when travelling or the mood strikes in the summertime. Subscription models are expensive and limiting. 

Edited by scipwraec
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On 9/12/2020 at 6:44 PM, RuideAlmeida said:

Geocaching is free... simply use the homepage to access any cache, download the waypoints into the app and you are good to go.

 

I am quoting this since this using the web page is the solution for basic members to log over 2/2! I don't know about downloading for basic members, but you can also view the coordinates and enter them into your phone as waypoints as needed. The information is available and you can use it.

 

Or you just use a phone application like C:Geo, and, AFAIK, Cachly, that shows caches over 2/2.

 

Premium caches (which is a minority at least here) take a bit more tricks but can be done. Easiest with the help of a friend with premium.

 

Still, the feeling that the changes are made to make more people pay premium is quite disturbing, especially since they may pay premium, log just a few caches, and then get it auto-renewed, literally paying for nothing! Just because of the auto-renewal default, I have stepped down to basic a few times (premium now though) as an all too silent protest.

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On 1/9/2021 at 8:38 PM, scipwraec said:

I think I would be more at peace with the monthly fee (I live where a yearly membership doesn’t make sense because there are few available caches in the wintermonths) if we got a discount for creating and maintaining caches.  There is quite a cost for upkeep in time and money.

 

But if you are only caching casually, do you need a premium subscription? But I agree, COs that maintain more than they (that is, we) log should be acknowledged a little more as volounteers than as users. Except for summertime, I tend to do more maintenance than logging.

Edited by Ragnemalm

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4 hours ago, Ragnemalm said:

the feeling that the changes are made to make more people pay premium is quite disturbing, especially since they may pay premium, log just a few caches, and then get it auto-renewed, literally paying for nothing! Just because of the auto-renewal default, I have stepped down to basic a few times (premium now though) as an all too silent protest.

 

I've thought of that. Not everyone knows what they're paying for or what the benefit may be, vs. what their level of Geocaching is.

 

It seems like the business model is that people are expected to pay the subscription to use The App. That suspicion is supported by the fact that the App shows only the easiest caches, and has a push to pay. And, as you mentioned, people can buy a 3rd party App and then can access all caches (with notable restrictions that existed before Apps) – the cost of making a 3rd-party App is upon the 3rd party, but Geocaching.com's App is paid by paying members, many of whom don't even need “an App” to fund, but would appreciate better web site features instead. So it doesn't bother me if Official App users are greatly encouraged to pay.

 

One concern is that people arrive in the Forum after paying for The Subscription, when they assumed payment is required to even start The App. It seems like people assume that. A lot. Add to that, the people who buy a 3rd-party App, next realize they “have to pay again” for The Subscription. Those people were under the impression that ANY App's cost is all you ever pay for all access. So they compare “The Subscription” to the cost of a 3rd-party App, and think a one-time-pay App is cheaper. Which it is – if they hunt a cache or two per day, and especially if they also use the web site.

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5 hours ago, Ragnemalm said:

Still, the feeling that the changes are made to make more people pay premium is quite disturbing, especially since they may pay premium, log just a few caches, and then get it auto-renewed, literally paying for nothing! Just because of the auto-renewal default, I have stepped down to basic a few times (premium now though) as an all too silent protest.

 

You do realize you can change that, right ?     :)

I used to use pm gift cards, but after realizing I can simply shut off auto-renew it's a lot easier.

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12 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

I used to use pm gift cards, but after realizing I can simply shut off auto-renew it's a lot easier.

Quite a while ago they removed the option to turn off auto-renew - unless they have added it back in the meantime, without telling anyone. Now I'm going to have to go check!

 

EDIT: Well, lookie there! We can cancel the recurring membership! https://payments.geocaching.com/membership/edit

Edited by TriciaG
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