Montana 680 and multicache functionality

[+bflentje]

For all Montana 680 users, I am looking to complete a social experiment.. because Garmin claims my problem is mine alone and that they can't recreate it. The following problem I can recreate on two different Montana 680's with two different versions of the firmware (latest and 2nd latest). When using the multicache functionality (Enter Next Stage), the unit consistently and without exception just shuts off.

 

1. Turn on GPS.

2. Navigate to a multicache.

3. Find first stage and acquire next stage coords..  

4. In GPS, use "Enter Next Stage" function.

    4.1. Enter the new coords.

    4.2. Accept coords.

    4.3. Put into navigation mode.

    4.4. If more than two stages, keep repeating step 4 as needed.

 

Sweet. Everything works great. Find the cache and mark it as found.

 

But now, navigate to another multicache and repeat the steps above starting at step #2. The unit crashes EVERY TIME at step #4.3. 

 

- This happens on both of my Montana 680's, both units using SD version of Garmin City Navigator mapsets.

- One unit has most recent firmware, other unit second most recent firmware release.

- No known settings in the UI for multicaches.

- I generally only use GGZ files 95% of the time. I am unsure if the same behavior happens with GPX files.

- Per Garmin, I've wiped the file system, perhaps cleaning corrupt sql or other files.

- I've done factory reset.

 

Nope, nothing works.

 

Can Montana 680 users test their units when they get a free moment and report back here? You will have my utmost gratitude if you do. Please post your firmware version and your result.

[Moun10Bike]

Not only can I repro that, I can repro it on my my GPSMAP 66st and my Oregon 750t. I have experienced it numerous times over the years. It seems to be an issue in the underlying non-model-specific geocaching logic.

[+Atlas Cached]

6 hours ago, Moun10Bike said:

Not only can I repro that, I can repro it on my my GPSMAP 66st and my Oregon 750t. I have experienced it numerous times over the years. It seems to be an issue in the underlying non-model-specific geocaching logic.

 

Yes, this is a very old bug (resurrected from the dead?) that was resolved at one time for the Oregon 6x0 series.

 

Let me see what I can reproduce later tonight...

 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Atlas Cached

[+Mineral2]

How old is this fault? I can't seem to reproduce it on my Oregon 600, and I don't recall ever experiencing anything like it with my Oregon 450.

Also, what do you mean by 4.3 Put it into navigation mode? When I enter the new coordinates and save/accept them, the GPS goes right to the map screen automatically.

[+Atlas Cached]

14 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

How old is this fault? I can't seem to reproduce it on my Oregon 600, and I don't recall ever experiencing anything like it with my Oregon 450.

 

GPSrChive > Oregon 6x0 > Common Issues > Bug 65 (Resolved 4.10)

 

so.... Your Oregon 6x0 firmware is likely higher than version 4.10 8^)

 

Edit: 

 

GPSrChive > Oregon 6x0 > Common Issues > Crash 17 still present 8^(

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Atlas Cached

[+Atlas Cached]

6 hours ago, Moun10Bike said:

Not only can I repro that, I can repro it on my my GPSMAP 66st and my Oregon 750t. I have experienced it numerous times over the years. It seems to be an issue in the underlying non-model-specific geocaching logic.

 

I'm not able to reproduce on my Oregon 750t, which firmware are you running?

 

I am also unable to reproduce on my GPSMAP 66.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Atlas Cached

[+Atlas Cached]

6 hours ago, bflentje said:

For all Montana 680 users, I am looking to complete a social experiment.. because Garmin claims my problem is mine alone and that they can't recreate it. The following problem I can recreate on two different Montana 680's with two different versions of the firmware (latest and 2nd latest). When using the multicache functionality (Enter Next Stage), the unit consistently and without exception just shuts off.

 

1. Turn on GPS.

2. Navigate to a multicache.

3. Find first stage and acquire next stage coords..  

4. In GPS, use "Enter Next Stage" function.

    4.1. Enter the new coords.

    4.2. Accept coords.

    4.3. Put into navigation mode.

    4.4. If more than two stages, keep repeating step 4 as needed.

 

Sweet. Everything works great. Find the cache and mark it as found.

 

But now, navigate to another multicache and repeat the steps above starting at step #2. The unit crashes EVERY TIME at step #4.3. 

 

- This happens on both of my Montana 680's, both units using SD version of Garmin City Navigator mapsets.

- One unit has most recent firmware, other unit second most recent firmware release.

- No known settings in the UI for multicaches.

- I generally only use GGZ files 95% of the time. I am unsure if the same behavior happens with GPX files.

- Per Garmin, I've wiped the file system, perhaps cleaning corrupt sql or other files.

- I've done factory reset.

 

Nope, nothing works.

 

Can Montana 680 users test their units when they get a free moment and report back here? You will have my utmost gratitude if you do. Please post your firmware version and your result.

 

What maps are enabled and what routing settings are you using?

 

I am unable to reproduce on my Montana 680 using direct routing.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Atlas Cached

[Moun10Bike]

9 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

I'm not able to reproduce on my Oregon 750t, which firmware are you running?

 

I am also unable to reproduce on my GPSMAP 66.

 

I have reproduced on the Oregon 750t running 4.20 (going to update now and see if it fixes it) and on the GPSMAP 66st running 2.50.

[Moun10Bike]

6 minutes ago, Moun10Bike said:

 

I have reproduced on the Oregon 750t running 4.20 (going to update now and see if it fixes it) and on the GPSMAP 66st running 2.50.

 

Updating the 750t to 4.40 seems to have corrected the issue or otherwise changed the repro steps that I was using.

[+Atlas Cached]

8 minutes ago, Moun10Bike said:

 

Updating the 750t to 4.40 seems to have corrected the issue or otherwise changed the repro steps that I was using.

 

Thank you!

[+Atlas Cached]

12 minutes ago, Moun10Bike said:

 

I have reproduced on the Oregon 750t running 4.20 (going to update now and see if it fixes it) and on the GPSMAP 66st running 2.50.

 

I also have GPSMAP 66 v2.50 cant get it to happen, I must be doing it wrong?!?

[Moun10Bike]

4 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

I also have GPSMAP 66 v2.50 cant get it to happen, I must be doing it wrong?!?

 

I encountered the shutdown at a different point than the OP, but if you continue navigating to caches, changing the coordinates, and saving, you will eventually hit it.

[+Atlas Cached]

53 minutes ago, Moun10Bike said:

 

I encountered the shutdown at a different point than the OP, but if you continue navigating to caches, changing the coordinates, and saving, you will eventually hit it.

 

Are you direct routing?

[Moun10Bike]

No, I have routable maps installed and was in routing mode. 

[+Atlas Cached]

OK, I was doing it 'wrong' - I have reproduced on Montana 680 and Oregon 7x0. 

 

GPSMAP 66 Reproduced. 

 

Oregon 6x0 duplicated...

 

BTW, here is the simple explanation of the issue: "When navigating to the 'second' 'next stage' of a multi-cache after having just 'found' a multi-cache with multiple stages, the GPSr will freeze and/or crash."

 

I tire of reproducing this common issue shared by presumably all Garmin outdoor units.

 

I have sent a report... Now we wait to see if they fix it.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Atlas Cached

[+Mineral2]

So how did you reproduce it? I navigated to several stages of a multi, "found" it, and then navigated to multiple stages of another multi - and "found" it, and navigated to several stages of a 3rd multi with no issue.

[+Atlas Cached]

48 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

So how did you reproduce it? I navigated to several stages of a multi, "found" it, and then navigated to multiple stages of another multi - and "found" it, and navigated to several stages of a 3rd multi with no issue.

 

With what GPSr and Firmware version?

Edited February 27, 2019 by Atlas Cached

[+Mineral2]

Oregon 600, FW 5.40

I know you pointed out earlier that this issue was fixed in 4.1. Are you saying then that your Oregon 6x0 is running a firmware older than 4.1? 

But also, if Garmin fixed this back with FW 4.1 for the Oregon 6x0 line, why hasn't the fix been ported to the other lines? Why wasn't it carried over to the Oregon 7x0 line? Honestly, I don't know how Garmin runs its ship, but it seems like their programming team is working with outdated practices.

[+Atlas Cached]

7 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

Oregon 600, FW 5.40

I know you pointed out earlier that this issue was fixed in 4.1. Are you saying then that your Oregon 6x0 is running a firmware older than 4.1? 

But also, if Garmin fixed this back with FW 4.1 for the Oregon 6x0 line, why hasn't the fix been ported to the other lines? Why wasn't it carried over to the Oregon 7x0 line? Honestly, I don't know how Garmin runs its ship, but it seems like their programming team is working with outdated practices.

 

No, my Oregon 6x0 has the most current firmware version installed.

 

Bug 65 (which I incorrectly assumed was the same issue) is listed as resolved, however Crash 17 (which is what the OP is experiencing with their Montana), first reported in November of 2013, is not.

 

Garmin frequently reproduces 'corrected bugs' from one product to the next. I can not say for certain how or why this happens, but one could assume they have basic common code for each function that is never changed, however, once it is borrowed for a specific product, they may tweak and adjust as required for that specific product only, while never updating the original code.

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Atlas Cached

[_Art_]

I’m very sure that the GPSMAP 66 firmware began as the most recent Oregon 7xx build at the time. Much more than just sharing some functions.

 

The 66 firmware 2.50 is still named "Oregon7xx". The logo splash screen is still named “Oregon7xx Splash Screen”.

66 firmware 2.50 contains all of the on-screen button graphics which are only of any use for displaying on the Oregon's touch screen,

The 66 contains the Oregon full screen background image only ever displayed on an Oregon,

and very large chunks of both firmware files are still exactly identical, even though both units have received individual updates since the 66 came out.

 

It does make sense to begin with software for similar hardware, and go from there with new features,

but baffles me a how a new model can have so many bugs seemingly unrelated to new features for a new model.

For hardware with identical processors, RAM, and displays, it shouldn’t be very difficult.

 

 

 

[+Mineral2]

2 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

one could assume they have basic common code for each function that is never changed

Yeah, I assume that most of the operation, as well as their internal operating system is built on common code. It's not uncommon for a FW that fixes a bug to be released across multiple units around the same time. In fact, I would hope that the way they manage the products is such that a fix in a common file will affect all future FW builds for all units that use that file. But who knows. It's also possible that each team works on a specific model and never talks to other teams.

Anyway, I can't seem to reproduce this specific crash on my Oregon 600.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Mineral2

[+Atlas Cached]

2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

Yeah, I assume that most of the operation, as well as their internal operating system is built on common code. It's not uncommon for a FW that fixes a bug to be released across multiple units around the same time. In fact, I would hope that the way they manage the products is such that a fix in a common file will affect all future FW builds for all units that use that file. But who knows. It's also possible that each team works on a specific model and never talks to other teams.

Anyway, I can't seem to reproduce this specific crash on my Oregon 600.

 

I always imagined a small group of coders (3-5) that worked together on each unique model, one model at a time, in a sequence dictated by top Garmin brass.

 

For the Oregon 6x0, are you navigating to a geocache, using the next stage function two or more times, then logging that geocache 'FOUND' before choosing another, and then using the next stage function twice for that geocache?

 

You have to log the 'Find', or the crash will not occur.

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Atlas Cached

[+GeoTrekker26]

Wh

2 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

You have to log the 'Find', or the crash will not occur. 

 

What happens if you "navigate" to a traditional between the two multis? By navigate I mean select a traditional cache, then immediately quit out of that hunt,

[+Atlas Cached]

2 hours ago, GeoTrekker26 said:

What happens if you "navigate" to a traditional between the two multis? By navigate I mean select a traditional cache, then immediately quit out of that hunt,

 

I have a Gold Fish.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Atlas Cached

[+bflentje]

Sorry, I was away from the PC for a few days. I am using Garmin City Navigator North America (2016) and using direct routing.

 

Thank you to all that responded.