Popular Post +noncentric Posted January 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2019 My request is to change the labeling of the Corrected Coordinates feature to Solved Coordinates. The most common use of this feature is to enter puzzle or multi solutions, so the "Solved" verbiage would be appropriate. The original posted coords are rarely "incorrect", so the "Corrected" is not as appropriate. This change would be aimed at accomplishing a couple things: Less incorrect use by CO's -- Reducing instances where Cache Owners find that their cache's posted coords are incorrect and then use the "Corrected Coordinates" feature, thinking that they have now 'corrected' the cache page. They don't realize that the posted coords on the cache page are still incorrect, since they see the 'correected' coords when they look at the cache page. If the labeling says "Solved", then that might prompt CO's to consider whether that is the feature they really should be using. It might also help to have a link or verbiage referencing the "Update Coordinates" log when a cacher opens an owned cache, but at least a labeling change would help. Platform consistency -- Consistency between the app and the website. In the app, updated coordinates show as "Solved Coordinates" in the Waypoints section. Entering a "Solved" coordinate in the app syncs with the "Corrected" coordinates section on the website, which could be non-intuitive for users. 13 2 Quote Link to comment
+Viajero Perdido Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Brilliant! Quote Link to comment
+IceColdUK Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) +1 Edited January 30, 2019 by IceColdUK Quote Link to comment
+hzoi Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 6 hours ago, noncentric said: Less incorrect use by CO's That's enough reason by itself. +1 1 Quote Link to comment
+palmetto Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Nice idea. See also this recent thread on the same topic - CO misuse of "corrected coords" when Update Coords log is what's needed. OP there asks for Update Coords as an entry into the Admin Tools box. I'm in favor of whatever is easiest to implement. I'm in favor of recognizing that most new cache owners are app users primarily or only, and need for the Geocaching.com app to support cache ownership. Update coords, archive logs need to be included, and Write Note needs to be the default log for COs, instead of Owner Maintenance. 3 Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 The only issue that I would have is that one can use corrected coordinates for multi or traditional caches, thus using the term "Solved" might get confusing as well. 1 2 Quote Link to comment
+thebruce0 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said: The only issue that I would have is that one can use corrected coordinates for multi or traditional caches, thus using the term "Solved" might get confusing as well. True, though personally I'd consider new coordinates in a multi a partial 'solve' on the tasks. I'd fully agree with the traditional though. In those cases they really are 'corrected' coordinates. Or 'adjusted' coordinates That said, I never use the corrected coordinates feature on the website anyway after the native checker I copy out the correct coords and reset them, sending the solved coords to my app via personal note. I just prefer the manual way. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, thebruce0 said: True, though personally I'd consider new coordinates in a multi a partial 'solve' on the tasks. I'd fully agree with the traditional though. In those cases they really are 'corrected' coordinates. Or 'adjusted' coordinates That said, I never use the corrected coordinates feature on the website anyway after the native checker I copy out the correct coords and reset them, sending the solved coords to my app via personal note. I just prefer the manual way. I manually (unless the native checker does it for me) use corrected coordinates every time I solve a puzzle. As far as I know I don't have any traditionals or multis with corrected coordinates so I can do a search with the "has corrected coordinates" filter and it tells me how many puzzles I've solved. Quote Link to comment
+thebruce0 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Yep, I just do all that in my app (my entire caching career is in there) and that corrected coords feature kind of messes that up. But anyway. I can see the value of adjusted that name a bit - especially if there's an inconsistency between the app and the website (on top of a common CO mistaken use) Quote Link to comment
+The A-Team Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 7 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said: The only issue that I would have is that one can use corrected coordinates for multi or traditional caches, thus using the term "Solved" might get confusing as well. No label could ever be perfect in all scenarios, so one needs to be used that can describe the majority of the usage. I'd have to assume that puzzle/multi solutions account for the highest usage by far, so "Solved" would be the best fit. The relatively-small other uses of the feature would fall under the heading of "exceptions to the rule". I'm all for this change, for all of the reasons described by noncentric. As a text label change, it would be exceedingly simple to implement, yet would provide quite a bit of benefit. Quote Link to comment
+noncentric Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 8 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said: The only issue that I would have is that one can use corrected coordinates for multi or traditional caches, thus using the term "Solved" might get confusing as well. 6 of one, half-a-dozen of another. As The A-Team mentions below, the overwhelming use of the "corrected coordinates" feature is for puzzle/multi caches. I would contend that the 'final' location of a multi-cache is still closer to a "solution" than a "correction", so using "Solved" instead of "Corrected" is a better match. And regarding traditionals, or other types of caches where someone is actually "correcting" an "incorrect" cache location, when using the pencil icon on the website to enter a corrected coordinate, the official app will show it as "Solved Coordinates". So even if someone disagrees with the nuances of item #1 in the OP, there is still item #2 in the OP that applies. 26 minutes ago, The A-Team said: As a text label change, it would be exceedingly simple to implement, yet would provide quite a bit of benefit. Yes - I see it as "low hanging fruit". An interesting test would be for half of English language users to have the label changed to "Solved", while the other half retains the "Corrected" label. Then analyze the usage after some time and see if there's any indication of less 'incorrect' usage with one label vs the other. But this would probably be a tedious test to implement. Of course, this brings up the localization issue. I don't know if there would be a meaningful difference between "Solved" and "Corrected", when translated into other languages - or even if there's inconsistency between the website and app in other languages. If the only meaningful difference is for English, then that would eliminate localization issues with the feature request. Quote Link to comment
+NanCycle Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 19 hours ago, noncentric said: My request is to change the labeling of the Corrected Coordinates feature to Solved Coordinates. The most common use of this feature is to enter puzzle or multi solutions, so the "Solved" verbiage would be appropriate. The original posted coords are rarely "incorrect", so the "Corrected" is not as appropriate. This change would be aimed at accomplishing a couple things: Less incorrect use by CO's -- Reducing instances where Cache Owners find that their cache's posted coords are incorrect and then use the "Corrected Coordinates" feature, thinking that they have now 'corrected' the cache page. They don't realize that the posted coords on the cache page are still incorrect, since they see the 'correected' coords when they look at the cache page. If the labeling says "Solved", then that might prompt CO's to consider whether that is the feature they really should be using. It might also help to have a link or verbiage referencing the "Update Coordinates" log when a cacher opens an owned cache, but at least a labeling change would help. Platform consistency -- Consistency between the app and the website. In the app, updated coordinates show as "Solved Coordinates" in the Waypoints section. Entering a "Solved" coordinate in the app syncs with the "Corrected" coordinates section on the website, which could be non-intuitive for users. Within the past year or so I have tried to instruct five cachers in the correct way to change the coordinates of their caches, after they thought they had corrected them using the "Corrected Coordinates" method. Only one has had a favorable outcome and two are still pending. The other two caches were archived due to lack of owner response. I first send the CO a PM; if no response I write a NM log; if still no response I write a NA log. Eventually the reviewer writes a RN, if still no response the cache is archived. Quote Link to comment
+noncentric Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, NanCycle said: Within the past year or so I have tried to instruct five cachers in the correct way to change the coordinates of their caches, after they thought they had corrected them using the "Corrected Coordinates" method. Only one has had a favorable outcome and two are still pending. The other two caches were archived due to lack of owner response. I first send the CO a PM; if no response I write a NM log; if still no response I write a NA log. Eventually the reviewer writes a RN, if still no response the cache is archived. Great to try and help out. I just recently suggested revised coords to a CO and included the link to the Help Center article in my cache log. Not sure if that will help, but am hoping. It's not the first time I've suggested updated coords to a CO. Quote Link to comment
+tamruns Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 In my preferred geocaching app, the term Final Coordinates is used. This makes sense in the context of a mystery or a multi. Quote Link to comment
+CAVinoGal Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 3:35 AM, palmetto said: I'm in favor of recognizing that most new cache owners are app users primarily or only, and need for the Geocaching.com app to support cache ownership. I respectfully disagree on this point. I use the app to FIND caches, but there is a lot more involved in PLACING caches; the website geocaching.com is currently required for creating a cache listing, and I think it should stay that way. An app user ONLY cannot create a cache page and successfully hide a cache, it HAS to be done on the website. The app is what I use when I am out seeking caches. Logging, creating caches, planning a route, solving puzzles - for all of that I am on my computer and use the website. 2 Quote Link to comment
+Wet Pancake Touring Club Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I think Solved works for the majority of cases, and it is nice and short. Personal coordinates is more generic, but I actually think it would be more confusing for most users. Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Wet Pancake Touring Club said: I think Solved works for the majority of cases, and it is nice and short. Personal coordinates is more generic, but I actually think it would be more confusing for most users. I was thinking "solved" was an ok compromise until you suggested "personal" only to brush it off. I feel like "personal" kinda hits the nail on the head. That's exactly what the field is and the key to how users should think about the field. Can you explain why you think it's confusing? The only problem I can think of for "personal" is that it doesn't convey that changing it actually moves where the cache looks like it is. "Corrected" gets that idea better. (My guess is that that's why "corrected" is being used: despite the confusion that makes some people think it changes the coordinates for everyone, it does, nevertheless, make the user realize that the coordinates are being changed as opposed to some alternative coordinate being added.) But "solved" has the same problem as "personal" in that regard. Quote Link to comment
+Wet Pancake Touring Club Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 23 minutes ago, dprovan said: I was thinking "solved" was an ok compromise until you suggested "personal" only to brush it off. I feel like "personal" kinda hits the nail on the head. That's exactly what the field is and the key to how users should think about the field. Can you explain why you think it's confusing? The only problem I can think of for "personal" is that it doesn't convey that changing it actually moves where the cache looks like it is. "Corrected" gets that idea better. (My guess is that that's why "corrected" is being used: despite the confusion that makes some people think it changes the coordinates for everyone, it does, nevertheless, make the user realize that the coordinates are being changed as opposed to some alternative coordinate being added.) But "solved" has the same problem as "personal" in that regard. My main thinking on why Personal would be confusing is that I was trying to keep the label short. If it were changed to "My personal updated coordinates", that would be much more descriptive, at the expense of screen real estate. Quote Link to comment
+noncentric Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Wet Pancake Touring Club said: My main thinking on why Personal would be confusing is that I was trying to keep the label short. If it were changed to "My personal updated coordinates", that would be much more descriptive, at the expense of screen real estate. I am a fan of "short". But also, part of my reason for using "Solved" in the OP is that "Solved" is what the app uses - so using "Personal" or "Final" or something else, would not address the issue of platform consistency in the OP. Of course, both the website and app could be updated, but I think a change to one platform only (website) makes things easier. 2 Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 16 hours ago, dprovan said: I was thinking "solved" was an ok compromise until you suggested "personal" only to brush it off. I feel like "personal" kinda hits the nail on the head. That's exactly what the field is and the key to how users should think about the field. Can you explain why you think it's confusing? The only problem I can think of for "personal" is that it doesn't convey that changing it actually moves where the cache looks like it is. "Corrected" gets that idea better. (My guess is that that's why "corrected" is being used: despite the confusion that makes some people think it changes the coordinates for everyone, it does, nevertheless, make the user realize that the coordinates are being changed as opposed to some alternative coordinate being added.) But "solved" has the same problem as "personal" in that regard. Personal coordinates might get confused with Personal Note....now, if a Personal note could optionally contain a set of coordinates... Quote Link to comment
+CAVinoGal Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 "Solved" works for me; it implies that you have worked to find a solution to a puzzle or signed a challenge you are working on (I enter dup coordinates on challenges I have signed to keep them on the map until I can turn it to a smilie). And I think most folks who are in this game deep enough to be solving puzzles or working challenges are likely to also understand that changing the coordinates with the pencil icon on the website will be visible only to them. Especially if they cache with other people who do NOT have the changed coordinates! "Updated" or "Corrected" on the other hand, implies you are changing the coordinates globally. Tht should take you straight to a Reviewer note, and make it clear that this is changing it for ALL to see. Whatever is done, it needs to be consistent between the app and the website. And since cache page creation/editing is not a part of the app, keep the cache page that everyone sees consistent with the app language. Quote Link to comment
+NanCycle Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 3:58 PM, NanCycle said: Within the past year or so I have tried to instruct five cachers in the correct way to change the coordinates of their caches, after they thought they had corrected them using the "Corrected Coordinates" method. Only one has had a favorable outcome and two are still pending. The other two caches were archived due to lack of owner response. I first send the CO a PM; if no response I write a NM log; if still no response I write a NA log. Eventually the reviewer writes a RN, if still no response the cache is archived. One of the two pending caches was updated today and I got a nice thanks message from the CO. 2 1 Quote Link to comment
+Goldenwattle Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 (edited) I thought I was attempting (but failing) to tell one cacher about this, but no matter how carefully I explained that changing the coordinates at the top of the page could only be seen by them, they never appeared to 'get it'. They kept telling me they were right and they had changed the coordinates. Turns out they likely knew all along how to do this. There was a coordinate conflict with a neighbouring cache (which I didn't know about) and they really wanted that spot. When I found that out, I was worried for the other cache, as I thought it might disappear. Their cache from memory had coordinates about 150 metres out, but they seemed to fully expert people would still be able to find it. The reviewer came in eventually and they tried the same thing with the reviewer, who ended up telling them (after the CO reactivated the disabled cache without making changes) they were not there to fool around. This person also told me a cache could be 1T, as long as the person in a wheelchair could see the cache ?. Their final message to me, "You are obviously in cahoots with the reviewer and probably pseudo who tried to put a cache in the same area. You have proven nothing to us. We have given you the evidence that says the cache is not near the tank. You have given no such evidence." (This was after carefully explaining several times that changing the coordinates at the top of the page can only be seen by them and no-one else. But, as it turned out, they most likely knew this. They wanted the spot already occupied by a cache and put their cache near that one and coordinates 150 metres away.) I concluded that person was not fully sane. The cache was archived. Edited April 6, 2019 by Goldenwattle Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 42 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said: The cache was archived. Quote Link to comment
+The A-Team Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 On 4/5/2019 at 6:06 PM, niraD said: I approve this message. ...and I agree. If that CO is going to willfully lie to the reviewer about the cache's location, archival (and hopefully some kind of note in that CO's file) is the right outcome. 2 Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.