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Maintained It = Didn't Maintain It

TriciaG

By TriciaG
in General geocaching topics

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cerberus1

+cerberus1

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, The A-Team said:

Honestly, I probably wouldn't even keep hiding caches if 12 of my hides had any of those issues at any given time. At the very least, I'd be re-evaluating the type of containers I'm hiding and where I'm hiding them.

 

Agreed.  We went to ammo cans when lock n locks in our area weren't holding up any better than rubbermaid. 

Some are known for showing many pics of carpy containers, as if a lazy CO is always the problem, but the first thing I'd think of is it must be a carpy container.   :)

 

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barefootjeff

+barefootjeff

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

I like to get out and wipe down the container of any built up dirt and twigs, remove the old bus tickets and bottle caps, replace the log if it's tattered or full. In general, twice a year when I do a maintenance run,  I would find that 1 out of 4 caches often needed some TLC attention. But nothing major like a container replacement.

 

Just amongst my own caches it varies greatly. I have a multi that I visit every few months to clear the leaf litter from around the first waypoint otherwise it'd be too hard to find. Another has battery-powered special effects so it gets fresh batteries every four months or so. One is inside a wet cave and usually moves a bit in the flash flooding that happens after torrential rain so that one gets a visit after any storms. Most, though, are tucked under rock ledges or inside dry caves so they just stay pristine year after year and about all I might do on a routine check is move the camo rock a few centimetres so it's "just so".

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BethDaddyKaty

+BethDaddyKaty

Posted
Posted

I was surprised when I started GCing that caches aren't shown as disabled or similar after circa 3 DNFs. Possibly higher for high D/Ts.

 

I appreciate sometimes a cache will get multiple DNFs by bad luck. But, humbly, I think a CO should provide good enough co-ordinates that more than 33% of people, bearing in mind the D/T rating, should find the cache. If not, it  implies that the D/T is wrong or the description/hint is inadequate.

 

Otherwise, the map denotes that a newly placed, very findable cache is equal to a cache which is very likely long gone. Especially for people caching with young families, who are more easily disappointed, this is problematic. No issues as far as I'm concerned is creating a new FTF; No issues as far as I'm concerned in encouraging "bounty hunter" cachers seekijg a new FTF of caches that have been marked as DNF.

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barefootjeff

+barefootjeff

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, daddybeth said:

I was surprised when I started GCing that caches aren't shown as disabled or similar after circa 3 DNFs. Possibly higher for high D/Ts.

 

I appreciate sometimes a cache will get multiple DNFs by bad luck. But, humbly, I think a CO should provide good enough co-ordinates that more than 33% of people, bearing in mind the D/T rating, should find the cache. If not, it  implies that the D/T is wrong or the description/hint is inadequate.

 

Otherwise, the map denotes that a newly placed, very findable cache is equal to a cache which is very likely long gone. Especially for people caching with young families, who are more easily disappointed, this is problematic. No issues as far as I'm concerned is creating a new FTF; No issues as far as I'm concerned in encouraging "bounty hunter" cachers seekijg a new FTF of caches that have been marked as DNF.

 

Maybe because DNFs happen for many reasons other than a missing cache or poor coordinates. I've had DNFs logged on my caches because of approaching storms, failing light, swarms of mosquitoes, no mobile data coverage, climb too tough, wrong tide, big seas or even a snake on the track like this one:

 

Quote

Didn't find itDidn't find it

07/07/2019

Decided to do this one while out at mt wondabyne. Came across a large stubborn red belly a few meters into the track and decided to turn back.

 

Some caches are just deceptively difficult to spot, like my GC5H5G2 which has had 10 DNFs and some of those back-to-back. I can provide plenty of examples of caches that have had five or more DNFs in a row but were perfectly fine. My own experience is that only about a tenth of the DNFs I've logged were actually missing caches, most were just because I couldn't spot the camo or there were too many muggles around for me to persevere, while over the years my own hides have accrued 62 DNFs but only 2 were due to a cache problem. A DNF just means someone couldn't find the cache, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it.

 

For the last four years or so there's been the Cache Health Score which looks at combinations of logs and the cache's D/T rating and sends an automatic email to the CO if it thinks there might be a problem. If the CO ignores that, it gets flagged to a reviewer who can then disable it if needed. But there are plenty of examples posted in the forums where it gets it wrong so automatic disabling would be a step too far, particularly if the cache's only sin is a few DNFs in a row.

 

As for a "bounty-hunter" FTF, wouldn't that just encourage throwdowns?

Edited by barefootjeff
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TriciaG

+TriciaG

Posted
  • Author
Posted
13 hours ago, barefootjeff said:
Quote

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance

26/12/2019

After doing maintenance on this cache, we discovered that cache is no longer at this location.

 

Okay, to his or her credit, the CO then logged a TD, but I still think the OM was a bit premature.

 LOL! So after doing maintenance on the cache, they discovered the cache was missing? How did they do maintenance on it, then? :drama:

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edexter

+edexter

Posted
Posted

I'm noticing that maintenence is no longer required in my neck of the woods (Massachusetts) due to the coronavirus.  Reviewers are no longer flagging caches in need of repair by disabling them or archiving them and NA logs are simply being ignored.  The given reason of course is "we recognize the huge disruption to people's lives caused by coronavirus and don't want to put anyone at risk by asking them to go out".   I guess this makes sense if your cache is placed downtown or if your state has a "stay at home order" (as of July 3rd none do) but walking in the woods is probably one of the safest outdoor activities possible and bringing a mask and hand sanitizer along reduces the risk to negligible.  When a cache hasn't been found in a year or two, and the CO has been inactive for longer than that, it's been abandoned and no one is going to go repair it anyway.  No one is put at risk by disabling or archiving an abandoned cache.   It's the only way to maintain the accuracy of the cache listings.  Giving folks more time to do repairs when they ask for it is easy enough and indicates that the cache is not abandoned.  

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L0ne.R

+L0ne.R

Posted
Posted

We are fortunate in Ontario. Caches can be published, so they are also expected to be maintained.

 

Are reviewers in Massachusetts publishing caches?

 

During COVID lockdown when caches were not being published, reviewers were not archiving but still leaving reviewer notes. They were friendly reminders that maintenance does not have to be a physical visit...

 

Quote

"When so many people are following public health guidance to stay at home, physical cache maintenance visits are unlikely to be a priority at this time. Thankfully there are proactive and positive cache maintenance tasks that can be performed, without leaving the house."

 

 

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Goldenwattle

+Goldenwattle

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

We are fortunate in Ontario. Caches can be published, so they are also expected to be maintained.

 

Are reviewers in Massachusetts publishing caches?

 

During COVID lockdown when caches were not being published, reviewers were not archiving but still leaving reviewer notes. They were friendly reminders that maintenance does not have to be a physical visit...

 

 

 

Here during the lock-down, or strong advice (depending where you lived), reviewers were not publishing caches or leaving reviewer notes (that I saw), but once some restrictions were lifted, caches were published again and reviewers have been disabling caches that need attention, but instead of the usual 30 days, gave 40 days.

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Goldenwattle

+Goldenwattle

Posted
Posted (edited)

(Bold not done on purpose. I can't get rid of it.)

Still nothing has changed. I expect this to be archived.

 

Post Reviewer NotePost Reviewer Note 02/Jun/2020 (Given 45 days)

Reviewer:  Temporarily Disable ListingTemporarily Disable Listing  13/Mar/2020  An OM log won't disable the listing. A Disable log is needed.

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance   06/Mar/2020  i will disable this cache since the full log upsets people.. and havnt had a chance to replace it

Needs ArchivedNeeds Archived   06/Mar/2020  Four NMs going back to 23/Jan/2018, and still the full log has not been replaced. Shame, as it's a nice place for a cache.

Found itFound it   I managed to squeeze my name on the log, thankyou 

 

Found itFound it   Found it but unfortunately the log was full

 

Found itFound it   Still needs new log.

Needs MaintenanceNeeds Maintenance   09/Sep/2019   Needs new log please.

Found itFound it   Needs new log - nowhere to write.

 

Found itFound it   The log is full.

Needs MaintenanceNeeds Maintenance   15/May/2019   This geocacher reported that the logbook is full.

Found itFound it  Log book is completely full and needs replacing.

Write noteWrite note   26/Apr/2019   Maintenance - Log full

Found itFound it   Log full

Found itFound it   Tricky - another full nano log.

Found itFound it   log full

Found itFound it   log full

Found itFound it   Log full

Needs MaintenanceNeeds Maintenance 2/Oct/2018  The logbook if full and needs replacing.

Found itFound it   the logbook was full. Signed in a random spot.

Found itFound it   Log full unable to sign but have photo if required

Found itFound it   log full photo if required

Found itFound it   Easy find TFTC needs a new sign scroll though ☺️

Found itFound it    we managed to squeeze our initials in random spots

Found itFound it    No room on log so put initials in tiny spots! TFTC

Found itFound it   Found but no room for a name to go on

CO: Write noteWrite note   08/Feb/2018   organising a replacement log

Needs MaintenanceNeeds Maintenance 23/Jan/2018  As per found log, the paper log scroll is full and needs replacing.

Found itFound it 19/Nov/2017  Found it but couldn't sign log, its full.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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barefootjeff

+barefootjeff

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Still nothing has changed. I expect this to be archived.

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance   06/Mar/2020  i will disable this cache since the full log upsets people.. and havnt had a chance to replace it

Needs ArchivedNeeds Archived   06/Mar/2020  Four NMs going back to 23/Jan/2018, and still the full log has not been replaced. Shame, as it's a nice place for a cache.

 

Yes, clearly accepting responsibility for his or her caches upsets the CO.

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Harry Dolphin

+Harry Dolphin

Posted
Posted
Quote

Enable ListingEnable Listing

06/18/2020

The cache’s original location was compromised as the pine bushes were removed. New coordinates cannot be provided as my other geocache, XXX hinders that. Please check the photo uploaded to find its location! It is in the corner of the bushes where the XXX used to be. Good luck!

 

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Goldenwattle

+Goldenwattle

Posted
Posted (edited)
My question: Why had none of those geocachers bothered to make a NM? (Loggers finds vary from 8 to 7000) D/T 1.5

Write noteWrite note

14/Jun/2020

Caching in the area & made our way here. We looked but didn’t find & then saw previous log from co saying it’s gone from 6mths ago? Could co please disable or replace. Thank you

 

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance

25/Jan/2020

Seems this geocache has been muggled. Hope to get a new one organised soon and will let you know when back up again.

 

Write noteWrite note

13/Nov/2019

With so many dnfs and pending CO check, perhaps should disable to save people stopping at an active icon on the map rather than just a note saying "out of order".

 

Didn't find itDidn't find it

05/Nov/2019

????

 

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance

07/Oct/2019

Out of order until we will check it’s still all good.

 

Didn't find itDidn't find it

05/Oct/2019

Followed the clues in previous comments after 30 mins of searching, fairly certain figured out where it should be but no luck.

 

Didn't find itDidn't find it

02/Oct/2019

No joy for me..

 

Didn't find itDidn't find it

14/Sep/2019

I took 25min can't find too

Didn't find itDidn't find it

14/Sep/2019

I took 25min can't find too

 

Didn't find itDidn't find it

06/Aug/2019

Too well hidden for us. TFTH

 

Found itFound it

01/Jun/2019

With sun going down, this my last one for the day. Nasty nasty nano. TFTC.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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L0ne.R

+L0ne.R

Posted
Posted (edited)

I posted an NM. Which was followed by an "Maintained=Not Maintained" OM log. Followed by someone else posting an NM. I am so pleased that someone else stepped up to back up the guidelines and proper behaviour.

 

But then the owner posted a note instead of a disable --- speaks volumes about the owner's purposeful conduct:

 

Quote

 

 

s****a

prem_user.gifPremium Member

Write noteWrite note

08/2020

We will check on this one and replace it

q****

 

Needs MaintenanceNeeds Maintenance

08/2020

May I suggest that you shouldn't be posting an "Owner Maintenance" log until you actually go out and replace or maintain your cache. At this point, you should be disabling the cache until you get out there to check on it and replace it. By posting an "Owner Maintenance" log, you are removing the "Needs Maintenance" attribute which alerts other cachers that there is a potential problem. By temporarily disabling your cache, you are providing a courtesy to other cachers. They will know to hold off on looking for this one until you've checked on it, and maintained or replaced it.

s*****a

prem_user.gifPremium Member

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance

(next day) 2020

Will check on this one and replace it

L0ne.R

prem_user.gifPremium Member

Profile photo for L0ne.R

Needs MaintenanceNeeds Maintenance

08/2020

Sad to see a swag size, D1.5/T1.5 (I like low D/T rated caches), cemetery cache go missing. Could use an owner checkup and replacement.

 

 

Edited by L0ne.R
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Goldenwattle

+Goldenwattle

Posted
Posted
On 8/23/2020 at 12:49 AM, L0ne.R said:

I posted an NM. Which was followed by an "Maintained=Not Maintained" OM log. Followed by someone else posting an NM. I am so pleased that someone else stepped up to back up the guidelines and proper behaviour.

 

But then the owner posted a note instead of a disable --- speaks volumes about the owner's purposeful conduct:

 

 

:lol: I did that once. After a long list of DNFs (and I mean loooonnnngggggggg) I posted a NM. The owner immediately did an OM, and wrote, "I think the cache is still there." I posted another NM and suggested they go out and check. The owner told me off :rolleyes:. Another geocacher was good enough to back me up. After another long string of DNFs, the cache was archived.

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TmdAndGG

+TmdAndGG

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/29/2020 at 8:05 AM, Harry Dolphin said:
Quote

Temporarily Disable ListingTemporarily Disable Listing

08/28/2020

Disabling until the cache honoree can be first to find.

 

:rolleyes:

They seriously think that if you just Disable the listing that no one except the "cache honoree" can be first to find? Come on!

Edited by TmdAndGG
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cerberus1

+cerberus1

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:

:rolleyes:  They seriously think that if you just Disable the listing that no one except the "cache honoree" can be first to find? Come on!

13 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Beginner(ish) CO?

5 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

I’d respect their wishes. ?‍♂️

 

I agree with IceColdUK.  Folks here honor the request, knowing it has some meaning.  Been like that here for years.

I've been the beneficiary of six birthday caches over the years *, one had a set of Harley keys in it.   :)

 - Imagine the look of someone not knowing what's going on for that FTF prize.    :laughing:     4T, the other 2/3rds knew I'd be first anyway.

 

* ETA...  and not all from the other 2/3rds either.  We placed one for a cacher's sixteenth birthday.

Edited by cerberus1
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Hynz

+Hynz

Posted
Posted
On 11/20/2020 at 3:30 PM, Max and 99 said:

OM log:

Cache is still loggable and lid isn't critical to integrity of cache.

Without further details this could be a perfectly fine OM log to cancel the NM flag.

But as the author I would most probably provide a reason and would add a hint when I will again visit this cache.

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ras_oscar

+ras_oscar

Posted
Posted

I went after a cache that had recently been logged with a NM followed by an owner maintenance log stating it was fine. I arrived at ground zero and found a pile of short sticks arranged into the shape of a teepee. I disassembled the teepee and was rewarded by a LNL beneath with a hole chewed through the bottom. I ebuilt the teepee, logged my find and sent a PM to the reviewer describing the situation. Its clear that the NM logger actually picked up the container to open it, whereas the CO doing maintenance merely looked at the teepee. I left it to the reviewer to sort out.

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colleda

+colleda

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Thanks. I am not sure I have seen a Lock and Lock. That's the danger of using some initials, as they mightn't translate internationally.

I bought some new Sistemas a couple of days ago and they no longer have an O-ring type seal. It looks like it has a tighter fitting gasket. Kinda hard to describe, the closest I can think of is like a motorcycle fork seal in the lid which encircles internally the bottom half when in place. I have one ready to go so I'll know in a couple of years how good it works .

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Goldenwattle

+Goldenwattle

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, colleda said:

I bought some new Sistemas a couple of days ago and they no longer have an O-ring type seal. It looks like it has a tighter fitting gasket. Kinda hard to describe, the closest I can think of is like a motorcycle fork seal in the lid which encircles internally the bottom half when in place. I have one ready to go so I'll know in a couple of years how good it works .

I haven't bought any for awhile, as I don't really want to publish many more caches, if any, because I then need to maintain them. I now tend to put out large, watertight pill bottles, like this. I showed this once before.

Green pill botle.jpg

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Ragnemalm

+Ragnemalm

Posted
Posted

I read the thread and I see two kinds of problems:

  • Very careless COs that don't react on multiple problems.
  • Accidentally logging OM when you really just want to make a note stating your plan for maintenance.

I have done the latter a few times, totally unintentional. OM is the default, so I have to change to note, and if I am in a hurry I can forget - and then the NM flag is taken down. Should OM really be the default?

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cerberus1

+cerberus1

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Ragnemalm said:

OM is the default, so I have to change to note, and if I am in a hurry I can forget - and then the NM flag is taken down. Should OM really be the default?

 

Yet another reason I prefer (and hope to heck it stays...) the "old" logging page.    :)

 I understand it has to do with predictability, but I'd prefer to choose whatever log I intended to enter, thanks.  

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