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TriciaG

Maintained It = Didn't Maintain It

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In the spirit of the thread "Found It = Didn't Find It" comes this one, where you're invited to post Owner Maintenance logs where maintenance was clearly not performed.

 

Please, no naming of the cache or cache owner; just the log, please!

 

Here's the log that prompted this thread:

 

Quote
  • Log Type: Owner Maintenance
  • Date: 01/19/2019
  • Location: ---
  • Type: Traditional Cache

Log: I will check on this one as soon as i can when its not snowing, (large amounts of snow can make this one really hard to find) hopefully on the next mild day i will go have a look at it as it's close by.

 

 

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Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance

Dec/10/2018

Maintenance will not be completed until Spring. Enjoy the view in the mean time.

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8 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

 

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance

Dec/10/2018

Maintenance will not be completed until Spring. Enjoy the view in the mean time.

 

If the cache isn't Disabled this seems like an invite to treat the cache as a Virtual, thus grounds for a NA (or at least a message to a Reviewer).

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14 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

 

If the cache isn't Disabled this seems like an invite to treat the cache as a Virtual, thus grounds for a NA (or at least a message to a Reviewer).

 

How can you possibly say this without context?  For all you know the ‘Needs Maintenance’ may have simply been for a wet logbook.  Surely, the cache wouldn’t need to be archived just because of a misused OM log?

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DNF
DNF
DNF
DNF
DNF

 

Found it " There is a lot we wanted to write to this cache and the recent logs, but we think this is not required as everyone can make up their own mind. Last time we spent 30 minutes searching for this well hidden cache with GPS putting us in a spot where there is nothing close to the hint. Some would call this lazy caching. Today with a fresh set of eyes and the GPS pointing to a different location we made the find within minutes. While it is understandble why the CO was sure that the cache was still in place the actions by other cachers still seem reasonable with a long list of DNFs and no action to a 'Needs Maintenance' log. TFTC "

 

Owner Maintenance "(Cacher's name) don't be an arsehole, you think I don't check my caches? So over lazy people looking for this THREE STAR cache as if it was a one star. There was also a good reason for my comment which I told the reviewer. Cache now has a new log. It was exactly where it should be "

 

Reviewer Temporarily Disable Listing

 

NM June " Sounds like you are guessing, so best to check, so as to reassure searchers. It hasn't been found since October last year. If this were my cache I would have checked long before this. Finders need reassurance that there is a cache to find. Plus with so many DNFs, there might be a tendency for people to have quicker searchers than they might otherwise."

 

Owner Maintenance "I I'm pretty sure this is still in place."

NA

DNF

DNF

DNF

NM

DNF

DNF

DNF

DNF

 

Edited by Goldenwattle
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2 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

How can you possibly say this without context?  For all you know the ‘Needs Maintenance’ may have simply been for a wet logbook.

 

That's why I said seems, and noted that whether the cache was Disabled or not was important. However, the language "Enjoy the view in the mean time." in context of the log posted, that statement is all too reminiscent of language used in other cache listings I have seen over the years where a physical cache has been temporarily or indefinitely treated as a Virtual by the CO.

 

2 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

Surely, the cache wouldn’t need to be archived just because of a misused OM log?

 

In this case NA = NRA (Needs Reviewer Attention). Disable the listing until maintenance is performed and remind the CO it can't be turned into a Virtual. The big concern is not the misuse of the OM (that's a small concern), but the (implied) treatment of the cache as a Virtual until maintenance occurs.

Edited by JL_HSTRE
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A cache published by a well known armchair logger. Almost certainly as real as their (non) finds and logs. So, the maintenance logs were likely done from their armchair. After many DNFs by experienced very cachers I wrote a log explaining that this person was an armchair logger and giving examples, to warn people about them. Naturally it was deleted by the CO, as I suspect were other people's similar logs.

 

CO archived it

DNF

NA

Temporary Disable Listing: "some one has put a fake cache here or it was a miracle that some one recently lost a new spray painted mint tin. we are disabling the cache until we visit on saturday to check our container and remove fake containers."

Write Note

Write Note (They said they found a minie tin and had messaged the CO asking if this was it)

Owner Maintenance

Reviewer Asked to see a photograph of cache in place

NA

Write Note " Either it exists and is very, very poorly placed, or the troll gets the last laugh at all of us searching, "

NM

DNF

DNF

DNF

DNF

DNF

Write Note " "trolls ----", apt name I suspect."

DNF

DNF

DNF

Owner Maintenance

" another weekend spent in the bay. a quick check on our cache and yes he is still sleeping peacefully. just a reminder not to move any sleeping trolls. we will be back in the bay saturday week. "

DNF

DNF

Owner Maintenance " we have just come back from the weekend in batemans bay. we checked on the cache and it is still safe. there has been lots of movement in the area so make sure you dont move the rocks to much. a hint is homemade camoflage. be stealthy and gentle. "

DNF

DNF

DNF

Owner Maintenance

" back in the bay for the weekend and we checked up on our cache.
the troll is still safely asleep exactly how we placed him "

DNF

CO Write Note:  we will be ...... next week to check on the cache

DNF

CO Write Note: " i think we have underestimated the difficulty level of this cache. we might have to increase the difficulty again? "

DNF

DNF

CO Write Note: "difficulty level is raised to 3 because people couldnt find the cache

remember to look where trolls live
and dont move a sleeping troll"

DNF

Edited by Goldenwattle

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Quote

Log Type: Owner Maintenance

Date: 01/04/2019

Type: Traditional Cache

Log:
This cache is under snow!! Once I can get to it I'll check on it.

 

Quote

Log Type: Owner Maintenance

Date: 01/12/2019

Type: Traditional Cache

Log:
Found a replacement!! Hope to get there this week and replace it. Thanks for your patience!

 

Quote

Log Type: Owner Maintenance

Date: 01/06/2019

Type: Traditional Cache

Log:
Had alot come but will repair soon

 

Quote

Log Type: Owner Maintenance

Date: 01/02/2019

Type: Traditional Cache

Log:
I will get on this one soon. I had forgotten about it.

 

 

Quote

 

Log Type: Owner Maintenance

Date: 12/25/2018

Type: Traditional Cache

Log:
As of 25 December, there is still construction happening very close to the cache location. Since they have a lot of stuff going on and security posted to watch the site, it is not possible to check this one or allow others to find it. I will take appropriate action when it is possible.

 

 

There you go, I can probably find more... <_<

 

The thing is if you are using the, "new logging experience" the default log type is, "Owner Maintenance".  It's easy for experienced cachers to forget to change it and new cachers assume (quite reasonably) that any log they post on one of their own caches should be OM. 

 

I think the default should either be "Write Note" or (like the old logging experience) no default. As long as it stays the way it is I find it hard to be very upset with people making this mistake. 

 

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26 minutes ago, MtnGoat50 said:

 

 

 

 

 

There you go, I can probably find more... <_<

 

The thing is if you are using the, "new logging experience" the default log type is, "Owner Maintenance".  It's easy for experienced cachers to forget to change it and new cachers assume (quite reasonably) that any log they post on one of their own caches should be OM. 

 

I think the default should either be "Write Note" or (like the old logging experience) no default. As long as it stays the way it is I find it hard to be very upset with people making this mistake. 

 

 

Yes, this looks like another failure from the default choice being made by the site. Do the developers really believe that the users are too inept to select the log type, and need a default selection made for them?  SMH

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45 minutes ago, MtnGoat50 said:

The thing is if you are using the, "new logging experience" the default log type is, "Owner Maintenance".  It's easy for experienced cachers to forget to change it and new cachers assume (quite reasonably) that any log they post on one of their own caches should be OM. 

 

Yes, here's one by me that on first glance looks fine...

 

image.png.ebad43717e353f5597eeb88bb292948f.png

 

...except I'd disabled the cache a few days earlier while I carried out repairs and this was meant to be an Enable log, not an OM.

 

If HQ think having default log types isn't causing any problems, maybe they should change the default owner log to Archive and see what happens.

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2 hours ago, MtnGoat50 said:

 

 

 

 

 

There you go, I can probably find more... <_<

 

The thing is if you are using the, "new logging experience" the default log type is, "Owner Maintenance".  It's easy for experienced cachers to forget to change it and new cachers assume (quite reasonably) that any log they post on one of their own caches should be OM. 

 

I think the default should either be "Write Note" or (like the old logging experience) no default. As long as it stays the way it is I find it hard to be very upset with people making this mistake. 

 

I've been caught out like that with one of my own. Thought I had WN'd it.

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Then there are the questionable OMs after a Reviewer Disable.

 

This one had "soaked" logs since 2015. 5 NMs since 2015. "Water container needs to have water repeatedly dumped out".

Another NM in 2016. Followed by a Reviewer Disable a day later.

An OM a few days later "Placed a replacement cache this morning, all good to go."  11/02/2016. 

 Followed by this finder log on 11/27/2016 "Unfortunately the container was full of water and the logbook was soaked". 

 
Followed by dozens of Find logs (yet no NMs) that reported a soaked container:
 
"Found it upside down, with water in everything"
"soaked unsignable log"
"The log was not usable"
"sopping wet"
"Container was pretty wet"
"container was sitting in water"
"Geocache could definitely use maintenance"
"It had water in it and the baggie holding the log book was unzipped, so it was soaked"
"The cache was full of water"
"Water was in the container. "
"The cache is in poor shape."
"Cache container and log wet."
"Cache is water damaged."
"The area where the cache is filled with water."
 
Edited by L0ne.R
clarity

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Premium Member (Me)

Needs Archived

01/20/2019

This geocacher reported that this geocache should be archived. A community volunteer reviewer has been notified.

 

Premium Member (Me) 

Write note

01/20/2019

Didn't look for it because cache was apparently removed 2 1/2 years ago without being disabled. No updates from CO in all that time. There may also be an issue of private property.

 

Premium Member 

Didn't find it

08/18/2018

We were driven by by here and thought we would go for this one but we couldn’t find anything at the GZ.

 

Premium Member

Didn't find it

10/17/2017

No luck at gz

 

Member (CO)

Owner Maintenance

07/12/2016

Sorry everyone! It appears they are going to do some construction where this cache was near, so I am going to have to relocate it. As soon as it has a new home I will update the website. Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

Member

Needs Maintenance

07/06/2016

When I took grandson to this cache, [Someone] came out and told me it was private property, he was going to remove it, PLEASE contact [Someone]!, or this cache will be gone

 

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16 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

If HQ think having default log types isn't causing any problems, maybe they should change the default owner log to Archive and see what happens.

 Oh, that would be interesting...   :drama:

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On 1/20/2019 at 9:17 PM, barefootjeff said:

 

Yes, here's one by me that on first glance looks fine...

 

image.png.ebad43717e353f5597eeb88bb292948f.png

 

...except I'd disabled the cache a few days earlier while I carried out repairs and this was meant to be an Enable log, not an OM.

 

If HQ think having default log types isn't causing any problems, maybe they should change the default owner log to Archive and see what happens.

 

How about this? Don't have a default log type at all.  Force the user to select a log type before it can be sent.  

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7 hours ago, J Grouchy said:

How about this? Don't have a default log type at all.  Force the user to select a log type before it can be sent.  

...but, but, then we've have to click more! TWO MORE TIMES! Once to open the drop-down, and another time to select the log type. ON EVERY LOG! Why are you wanting to make things so much harder for all of us???!!!!1!!

 

:laughing:

 

(seriously, though, this just makes so much sense)

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12 hours ago, J Grouchy said:

How about this? Don't have a default log type at all.  Force the user to select a log type before it can be sent.  

 

I agree - when logging OWNED caches - owner's intentions are quite variable:

  • I may want to inform the world, that I've completed maintenance - yes.
  • But I just may want to post simple note about anything related with my cache - not completed maintenance.
  • Often, sadly, I need to post Disable listing log.
  • Less often, Update Coordinates, sometimes Enable and when the time comes - Archive.

Saying that - OM log is not so dominant and therefore it's wrong to make it Default. There should be no Default, because none of these is clearly most prevalent.

From couriosity and to demonstrate my statements - I checked my own total counts of these logs, posted in last 14 years:

  • Owner Maintenance: 964 times
  • Write Note: 2136 times (includes Notes on other caches, not only mine - can't split them)
  • Temporarily Disable Listing: 346 times
  • Enable listing: 322 times
  • Update Coordinates: 57 times
  • Archive: 55 times

Here's a link where anyone can check his own logs and their counts: https://www.geocaching.com/my/logs.aspx?s=1&amp;lt=46

 

----------------------------

 

When logging other caches, not owned - I'm okay with Found it log being Default. It's clearly most usual. Around 80% in my case, perhaps higher for average player.

When logging future events, Will Attend should stay Default.

When logging past events, Attended should stay Default.

When logging Webcams, Webcam photo taken should stay Default.

 

Edited by Rikitan
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4 hours ago, Rikitan said:

When logging other caches, not owned - I'm okay with Found it log being Default. It's clearly most usual. Around 80% in my case, perhaps higher for average player.

When logging future events, Will Attend should stay Default.

When logging past events, Attended should stay Default.

When logging Webcams, Webcam photo taken should stay Default.

 

I disagree with defaults on any of these logs too. For the sake of saving one or two mouse clicks, the defaults create errors that would not have otherwise occurred. My caches don't get many finds but since the change to the logging page I've already had to question two Found It logs where the text made it clear it was meant to be a DNF, and yes, on both occasions the logger agreed it was meant to be a DNF and changed it. I'm sure a fair percentage of the derided Found It = Didn't Find It logs were due to uninententional errors caused by this default log type.

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3 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

I disagree with defaults on any of these logs too. For the sake of saving one or two mouse clicks, the defaults create errors that would not have otherwise occurred. My caches don't get many finds but since the change to the logging page I've already had to question two Found It logs where the text made it clear it was meant to be a DNF, and yes, on both occasions the logger agreed it was meant to be a DNF and changed it. I'm sure a fair percentage of the derided Found It = Didn't Find It logs were due to uninententional errors caused by this default log type.

 

Yes, as CO, I experience this as well. That's why I used formulation:

Quote

When logging other caches, not owned - I'm okay with Found it log being Default. 

 

I would also be OK if there would be no Default log, when logging physical cache of different owner. I don't mind 2 more clicks, personally. 

 

----

 

However, when logging future and past events - there's little reason to cancel Default log (Will Attend, Attended) - they are far the most prevalent and should stay - to save millions of clicks by all users worldwide.

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Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance 12/09/2017

Will get out to check on Stg 2.
In the meantime, if anybody needs help, just message me.

 

--------------------

 

This was posted after an NM. The owner still hasn't fixed stage 2. You have to message the owner to get past stage 2. Stage 3 was reported missing in a Note log. People have reported finding the final using the PAF method. No more NMs since the 2017 OM. 

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Just now, L0ne.R said:

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance 12/09/2017

Will get out to check on Stg 2.
In the meantime, if anybody needs help, just message me.

 

--------------------

 

This was posted after an NM. The owner still hasn't fixed stage 2. You have to message the owner to get past stage 2. Stage 3 was reported missing in a Note log. People have reported finding the final using the PAF method. No more NMs since the 2017 OM. 

 

Sounds like an NA is in order, with a description of everything that is still an ongoing issue with no maintenance.

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Oldest entry 1st:

 

Temporarily Disable ListingTemporarily Disable Listing

23/07/2018

In view of recent DNFs will disable and check if cache still here.

 

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance

03/10/2018

Have not forgotten this one. I will sort it out shortly.

 

Post Reviewer NotePost Reviewer Note

19/12/2018

We noticed that this cache has been temporarily disabled for a period of time well in excess of the "4 weeks" as contemplated by Guidelines.

The Geocache Maintenance guideline explains a CO's responsibility towards checking and maintaining the cache when problems are reported.

Please can you either repair/replace this cache, or archive it (using the archive listing link in the upper right) so that someone else can place a cache in the area,

If you plan on repairing this cache, please log a note to the cache (not email) within 30 days so we don't archive the listing for non-communication.

 

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance

22/12/2018

Will sort out over the next 30 days.

 

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance

14/01/2019

Will be sorted shortly.

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Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance

01/19/2019

I will check on this one as soon as i can when its not snowing, (large amounts of snow can make this one really hard to find) hopefully on the next mild day i will go have a look at it as its close by.
 

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Write note

20 Jan 19

Shouldn't that be a note rather than an Owner Maintenance log given you haven't done any actual maintenance??

 

Owner Maintenance

20 Jan 19

I will check that one

 

Didn't find it

11 Jan 19

No luck.

 

Needs Maintenance

11 Jan 19

Just a reminder for the CO if they didn't check this one back in October...thanks

 

Didn't find it

11 Jan 19

[…]Did the CO check up on it as promised back in October last year?

 

Owner Maintenance

05 Oct 18

will check update tomorrow

 

Didn't find it

29 Sep 18

Maybe we were tired. We looked but did not find.
On our list for another day.

 

Found it

19 Aug 18

Quick easy find 😎

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Another CO doing an Owner Maintenance without checking...at least the first time. I quote the CO - "I'm pretty sure this is still in place." I colour coded this. The same colour for different logs is the same geocacher.

 

 Didn't find itDidn't find it   17/Feb/2019

Didn't find itDidn't find it   02/Jan/2019

Didn't find itDidn't find it   04/Nov/2018

Didn't find itDidn't find it  28/Oct/2018

Didn't find itDidn't find it  27/Oct/2018

Didn't find itDidn't find it  19/Sep/2018

Found itFound it  04/Jul/2018

There is a lot we wanted to write to this cache and the recent logs, but we think this is not required as everyone can make up their own mind. Last time we spent 30 minutes searching for this well hidden cache with GPS putting us in a spot where there is nothing close to the hint. Some would call this lazy caching. Today with a fresh set of eyes and the GPS pointing to a different location we made the find within minutes. While it is understanding why the CO was sure that the cache was still in place the actions by other cachers still seem reasonable with a long list of DNFs and no action to a 'Needs Maintenance' log. TFTC

 

Enable ListingEnable Listing 01/Jul/2018

It was there just like every time before. Not inactive just not found

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance  01/Jul/2018

(Geocacher name of NM of 30/Jun/2018) don't be an arsehole, you think I don't check my caches? So over lazy people looking for this THREE STAR cache as if it was a one star. There was also a good reason for my comment which I told the reviewer. Cache now has a new log. It was exactly where it should be

Reviewer Temporarily Disable ListingTemporarily Disable Listing  01/Jul/2018

Needs MaintenanceNeeds Maintenance  30/Jun/2018

Sounds like you are guessing, so best to check, so as to reassure searchers. It hasn't been found since October last year. If this were my cache I would have checked long before this. Finders need reassurance that there is a cache to find. Plus with so many DNFs, there might be a tendency for people to have quicker searchers than they might otherwise.

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance  30/Jun/2018

I'm pretty sure this is still in place.

Needs ArchivedNeeds Archived  28/Jun/2018

Didn't find itDidn't find it  28/Jun/2018

 

Didn't find itDidn't find it  07/Jun/2018

 

Didn't find itDidn't find it  05/May/2018

Needs MaintenanceNeeds Maintenance  23/Apr/2018

CO needs to check this one to either replace, or reassure people it is still here. Without reassurance and with DNFs this can stop many people from attempting this one. Has not been found since October last year.

 

Didn't find itDidn't find it  23/Apr/2018

 

Didn't find itDidn't find it  19/Feb/2018

 

Didn't find itDidn't find it  17/Feb/2018

 

Didn't find itDidn't find it  16/Oct/2017

Found itFound it  10/Oct/2017

 

Edited by Goldenwattle
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Missed it by that much.

 

prem_user.gifPremium Member

2.png553

Owner MaintenanceOwner Maintenance

25/10/2015

This cache has been replaced. Please be sure to log your TravelBugs. Happy Caching! icon_smile_big.gif

 
 

icon_admin.gifReviewer

ArchiveArchive

23/07/2015

As the owner has not responded to my prior note, I am archiving the listing.

xxxxxxxxx Reviewer
Geocaching.com Volunteer Reviewer

 

icon_admin.gifReviewer 

Temporarily Disable ListingTemporarily Disable Listing

02/07/2015

This geocache came to my attention as being in need of an owner maintenance visit. The cache owner needs to check on this cache ASAP and either fix any problems or archive the listing, after picking up any geo-litter. See the maintenance section of the Geocache Listing Guidelines: http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx?expand=1#cachemaintenance

I've added this cache to a bookmark list, and I will check back in three weeks or so to be sure that the maintenance has been done, or that an explanation has been provided. In the meantime, I have temporarily disabled this listing. When the maintenance is completed, the owner can re-enable the listing by entering an 'enable listing' log. If the problem persists, I will need to archive this listing for lack of maintenance.

Happy Caching,

Geocaching.com Volunteer Reviewer
 

 

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