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jellis

Didn't have a pen.

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21 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Please don't misunderstand my last post (I just reread it).

I'm affirming that if I don't have a pen and therefore can't sign the log, I can't and don't log it as found. That was baked into my story.  My point was that it's wrong to dismiss people because they don't have a pen. Many posters have essentially said that they just shake-their-head-don't-understand people who find themselves without a pen.

But, it happens!

My attitude is a feeling of knowing commiseration: too bad you don't have a pen; I feel for you. Been there myself. (Just this past Saturday!) Don't claim it. Not coming back this way? Wow, that makes it worse, but it doesn't change it. Don't claim it.

 

It's happened to me too, after over 11 years playing.   In my case, I only discovered that I didn't have a pen after I had boarded a train in Belgium destined for Luxembourg.  There was a cache very close to the train station in the town in Luxembourg where I was staying overnight but the first thing I did was to find a grocery store that sold pens.    I found a grocery store but they didn't have any pens or pencils for sell, but the proprietor loaned me one for a couple of days. 

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11 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

<...> the proprietor loaned me one for a couple of days. 

 

Love it.

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1 hour ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

 

Love it.

 

I think I found five caches and dropped the pen off at the store before going to the train station and heading back to Belgium.

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5 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

I think I found five caches and dropped the pen off at the store before going to the train station and heading back to Belgium.

 

When away from home I tend to take the provided pen/notebook with me when supplied by the hotel. In our Icelandic hotel in March the clerk gave us 3 pens with rubber tip (for touchscreens). I can't remember the last time we had to buy pens although we have a 50 pen box as backup in the hobby room (or man cave).

 

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10 hours ago, dprovan said:

I don't understand. If they post a photograph but don't ask in advance, you're going to delete the log just because they didn't ask permission? Seems kinda controlling.

 

In my experience, geocachers are sincere, so it would never occur to me to automatically assume they didn't find the cache when they said they didn't have a pen. Are you taking this stance because you don't believe them or because you want to enforce the rules strictly?

No, I probably wouldn't delete them if they supplied a photograph. I should have written 'should' instead of 'need'. That's the polite thing to do, and what I have always done before logging in those circumstances. I have on one occasion then logged when the CO never responded. Some people's idea of proof though is a photograph of the scene, not of the cache, which doesn't prove they actually found the cache.

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Ooops I did it again, I´ve forgot my pen in the car. I´ve then "logged" the initials of my nickname with stripes of swag stickers and uploaded a photo of my log along with the online log.

Legit enough?

 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-geo-images/128f61e2-afa5-418c-ba8e-b1d208fe90b1.jpg

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45 minutes ago, DerDiedler said:

Ooops I did it again, I´ve forgot my pen in the car. I´ve then "logged" the initials of my nickname with stripes of swag stickers and uploaded a photo of my log along with the online log.

Legit enough?

Would be, if I were the CO :).

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I am in the process of deleting 7 Found It logs by one cacher as a check has revealed he has not signed any of them. One log mentioned he did not have a pen but none of the others had any mention of this and had one word logs such as "Nice" and a two word log "Found It".

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3 minutes ago, colleda said:

I am in the process of deleting 7 Found It logs by one cacher as a check has revealed he has not signed any of them. One log mentioned he did not have a pen but none of the others had any mention of this and had one word logs such as "Nice" and a two word log "Found It".

Forgot to mention. I cannot contact this person as his account has never been validated.

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1 minute ago, colleda said:

I am in the process of deleting 7 Found It logs by one cacher as a check has revealed he has not signed any of them. One log mentioned he did not have a pen but none of the others had any mention of this and had one word logs such as "Nice" and a two word log "Found It".

I photograph the logs and then add the photograph as part of my maintenance log. I usually (depends) send a message to the logger and ask them to please point out their signature, as I can't see it. In a week's time (as I imagine it will be this time) you haven't received a reply, then delete it. But as they claimed 7 finds without any signatures, I would be tempted to delete them straight away. It's understandable (maybe) to forget a pen for one cache, but seven! That smacks of arm chair logger to me.

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4 minutes ago, colleda said:

Forgot to mention. I cannot contact this person as his account has never been validated.

I wrote my reply before I saw this. Armchair logger...delete!

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- I want to join your hockey game.
- Welcome! Where's your stick?
- I forgot it.
- But you need one.
- What if I just take a selfie with the puck and the gates?
- Sorry, you need a hockey stick to play hockey.
- How can you be so unsympathetic? Hockey is for fun. It's not about sticks. Anyone can forget their stick. Or loose it. Or break it...
- We've got our guidelines...
- Guidelines? Guidelines? Yesterday I played tennis. They also had their guidelines. And I forgot my racket. And nevertheless I won the game. Here's my golden cup. See?

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I wrote my reply before I saw this. Armchair logger...delete!

A lazy cacher methinks. Has been a member for a few years with only 8 finds, 7 of them mine all done within a few days. The non colleda cache was one I found recently and it wasn't signed either.

Edited by colleda
clarity

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1 hour ago, -CJ- said:

- Sorry, you need a hockey stick to play hockey.

Well, technically, you can keep playing without a stick. And it happens sometimes, albeit briefly. When a player breaks a stick, they have to drop it. Then they play without a stick until they can get another stick from the bench, or until they end their shift.

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37 minutes ago, niraD said:

Well, technically, you can keep playing without a stick. And it happens sometimes, albeit briefly. When a player breaks a stick, they have to drop it. Then they play without a stick until they can get another stick from the bench, or until they end their shift.

Until they join the game without a stick EVERY time.

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3 hours ago, niraD said:

Well, technically, you can keep playing without a stick. And it happens sometimes, albeit briefly. When a player breaks a stick, they have to drop it. Then they play without a stick until they can get another stick from the bench, or until they end their shift.

 

2 hours ago, on4bam said:

Until they join the game without a stick EVERY time.

Somewhere between these two quotes lies the answer

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5 hours ago, justintim1999 said:
8 hours ago, niraD said:

Well, technically, you can keep playing without a stick. And it happens sometimes, albeit briefly. When a player breaks a stick, they have to drop it. Then they play without a stick until they can get another stick from the bench, or until they end their shift.

 

7 hours ago, on4bam said:

Until they join the game without a stick EVERY time.

Somewhere between these two quotes lies the answer

Yeah, and more seriously, I think the analogy to geocachers having a pen works pretty well.

 

If someone always shows up without a pen/stick, then they aren't really prepared to play the game.

 

If something happens to your pen/stick, then it's okay to keep going without it until you can get another.

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On 5/13/2019 at 2:35 AM, -CJ- said:

- I want to join your hockey game.
- Welcome! Where's your stick?
- I forgot it.
- But you need one.
- What if I just take a selfie with the puck and the gates?
- Sorry, you need a hockey stick to play hockey.
- How can you be so unsympathetic? Hockey is for fun. It's not about sticks. Anyone can forget their stick. Or loose it. Or break it...

 

- okay, okay.  You can play without a stick.  You can be the goalie.

 

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18 hours ago, niraD said:

 

 

If something happens to your pen/stick, then it's okay to keep going without it until you can get another.

 

This happens fairly often if someone breaks their stick or the goalie gets their stick knocked away.  Another player can loan their stick to the goalie and the player without a stick can continue to play by kicking the puck (but can't score that way) and hit opposing players.   Whenever, an opposing player loses a stick against the Cornell University team, the crowd starts up a "stickless,  stickless" chant until the players either leaves the ice or gets another stick.    Maybe we should start something like that for geocachers that "forgot my pen".

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19 hours ago, niraD said:

Yeah, and more seriously, I think the analogy to geocachers having a pen works pretty well.

 

If someone always shows up without a pen/stick, then they aren't really prepared to play the game.

 

If something happens to your pen/stick, then it's okay to keep going without it until you can get another.

The forest is Littered with pens and pencils I've lost over the years.  I have a habit of slipping them  under the edge of my hat which I can't seem to break. 

 

The following is not a response to the OP's situation but only my thoughts on the subject of not having a pen.    

 

I understand the importance of the guidelines and I agree we should all do our best and try and follow them.   I get a little worried when I hear of logs being summarily deleted if for no other reason then the guidelines say you should.   In some cases logs should be deleted.   Before I'd even consider taking that step I'd personally want to be sure it was justified and I wasn't deleting the log of a good cacher who really did just loose their pen.      Since I believe that people are inherently good,  it isn't hard to pull the wool over my eyes so I'm sure over the years a few cachers have gotten away with an undeserved smiley.  I'm equally sure some really did loose their pen and in those cases I'm glad I choose to bend guidelines a little.      

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29 minutes ago, justintim1999 said:

The forest is Littered with pens and pencils I've lost over the years.  I have a habit of slipping them  under the edge of my hat which I can't seem to break. 

 

The following is not a response to the OP's situation but only my thoughts on the subject of not having a pen.    

 

I understand the importance of the guidelines and I agree we should all do our best and try and follow them.   I get a little worried when I hear of logs being summarily deleted if for no other reason then the guidelines say you should.   In some cases logs should be deleted.   Before I'd even consider taking that step I'd personally want to be sure it was justified and I wasn't deleting the log of a good cacher who really did just loose their pen.      Since I believe that people are inherently good,  it isn't hard to pull the wool over my eyes so I'm sure over the years a few cachers have gotten away with an undeserved smiley.  I'm equally sure some really did loose their pen and in those cases I'm glad I choose to bend guidelines a little.      

It when the same person loses their pen EVERY time they go caching. I've come upon that.

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1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

It when the same person loses their pen EVERY time they go caching. I've come upon that.

I agree.   There are situations where deleting a log or find is necessary.       

 

I'm only suggesting it be done after careful consideration and not as a matter of course.   

 

 A note to those reading this that cache in the Massachusetts area.    If you don't have something to write with when you've found the log book  just look around.  There's a good chance you'll find one of the pen or pencils I've lost in the general area. :D

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8 hours ago, justintim1999 said:

 A note to those reading this that cache in the Massachusetts area.    If you don't have something to write with when you've found the log book  just look around.  There's a good chance you'll find one of the pen or pencils I've lost in the general area. :D

I'm almost the opposite. I can't count the number of times I have walked away with the pen/pencil from the cache. I always go back and return it. A few times I have seen caches with a bunch of golf pencils in them, perhaps for forgetful folk?

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5 hours ago, colleda said:

I'm almost the opposite. I can't count the number of times I have walked away with the pen/pencil from the cache. I always go back and return it. A few times I have seen caches with a bunch of golf pencils in them, perhaps for forgetful folk?

 

Just today I did a routine visit to one of my more remote caches (about an hour and a half of hiking with a couple of hundred metres elevation change). Everything was fine, as expected, including its pencil sharpener, but the pencil had gone missing (it's not one you've visited though). Luckily I always carry replacement pencils when I go out checking my caches.

 

20190515_104712.jpg.83af72b1c7dc4d0796e42be1ea3afad2.jpg

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6 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Just today I did a routine visit to one of my more remote caches (about an hour and a half of hiking with a couple of hundred metres elevation change). Everything was fine, as expected, including its pencil sharpener, but the pencil had gone missing (it's not one you've visited though). Luckily I always carry replacement pencils when I go out checking my caches.

 

20190515_104712.jpg.83af72b1c7dc4d0796e42be1ea3afad2.jpg

I must confess I have a separate bag full of all sorts of items I take when making a cache maintenance run.   In fact I have two bags as one of my series requires a whole different set of items and tools that would be needed to fix issues.   It took several trips back and forth from my caches to realize this would save me a lot of time.   It would save me even more time if I could remember to re-stock the bags. :mad:   For some strange reason pencils and pens I originally place in caches seem to last.   Maybe I should start putting three or for of them in each cache so people who've forgotten or lost theirs can take one. :)  

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Yeah, I had someone log one of mine during the "hidden creatures" event last year.  It was the last day to find them, and the cacher signed about 20 that way, ie, did not have a pen or pencil.  This was on the 3rd day of their attempt to get enough to get all souvenirs, so I highly doubt they actually found any of them..  Said they would go back and sign shortly, so I asked what that time span was.  Response was "a couple of days".  I checked mine a month later and it was not signed, so deleted the log.

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That's happened to me a couple of times.

 

One time I walked through a muddy construction site during the night to find a cache but then realized I left my pen in the car. I walked all the way back and walked all the way back to the cache.

 

Another time I remembered to put a pen in my shirt pocket but as I was bending down it probably came off. When I found the cache my pen was nowhere to be found 😢 but luckily there was a pencil in the cache container.

 

Another time I was dropping off a client's vehicle at their work place and just happened to be a cache there. I didn't have any of my stuff, I left my pen in his car too so I had to take pictures to prove I found it. From now on I try to keep 2 pens in my car.

 

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Thank you all who quoted that hockey piece :) 

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I have been guilty of this on urban caches a couple times.  Sometimes I am so excited to find an unexpected cache while out to dinner.  I take a picture of my hand holding the log with something noticeable in the background so the CO knows it is really from their cache.   Never been deleted yet.  I also never logged a fake find and have always logged all my dnf's.  

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some times it impossible to log a cache I have failed to log a few cache because the log was unsignable and I don't always have extra paper with me.

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18 minutes ago, Wet_Ground said:

some times it impossible to log a cache I have failed to log a few cache because the log was unsignable and I don't always have extra paper with me.

 

 - And that's fine...  :)

Just don't start a thread complaining that a CO who actually checks their caches did, and you're now down by one.   :D

One of the "extras" we carry are sharpies,  just for those "unsignable" logs.  

I logged my name on the outside of the baggie once, after I found the other 2/3rds was hitting my bag for "stuff" she wasn't replenishing. 

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15 hours ago, Wet_Ground said:

some times it impossible to log a cache I have failed to log a few cache because the log was unsignable and I don't always have extra paper with me.

 

If a log is  unsignable, because it's turned into a pulpy mess,  the CO for the cache probably isn't going to complain if a signature isn't legible, and I'd just give the log a poke with a pen or pencil and call it signed.

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15 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

I'd just give the log a poke with a pen or pencil and call it signed.

I've dropped pebbles in caches for "prof" I was there when log was absent or unusable 

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Just saw one we have on watch.  Guy hasn't cached in some time,  and realized he left without a pen. 

Included a pic, and I see my sig's there on the log.  Yep, you're probably good.  The CO gets to see who's sigs are on it too.  :)

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I had a finger print in mud turn up in my logs lol I guess you can't argue with that!

 

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4 hours ago, The 2 Dogs said:

I had a finger print in mud turn up in my logs lol I guess you can't argue with that!

 

Unless they didn't mention the fingerprint was theirs in their log. Because otherwise how do you know who it belongs too?

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On 6/25/2019 at 9:08 PM, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

If a log is  unsignable, because it's turned into a pulpy mess,  the CO for the cache probably isn't going to complain if a signature isn't legible, and I'd just give the log a poke with a pen or pencil and call it signed.

 Yep.... and add a photo and an NM log....

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My sixth cache. There were *5* pens in the cache, and I'd brought my own.  Not one of them worked, and trying to use dirt as ink was an epic fail.

 

Liberty.jpg.8415c2bef732d302889ea08127a367ec.jpg

 

After that, I started carrying only golf pencils - lots of them - and a Sharpie.

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I was pretty proud of myself for finding a difficult-to-spot cache one day.

Didn't get to savor it long:  I could not find the bright yellow pencil I'd apparently dropped right there. 🙄

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On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 5:07 AM, Goldenwattle said:

Unless they didn't mention the fingerprint was theirs in their log. Because otherwise how do you know who it belongs too?

 

Good point! Maybe they BROUGHT the fingerprint with them!

 

"Here," he said, pressing his thumbprint into the scotch tape. "Sprinkle some grit on the log when you get there, then press the sticky side of the tape into the grit."

 

Hardly reliable. I mean, even something as high-tech as a retinal scanner can be defeated with a spoon!

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5 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Good point! Maybe they BROUGHT the fingerprint with them!

No I meant, when checking the log and a signature is found missing, how do you know if the fingerprint belongs to the person who didn't sign, if they don't mention they left a fingerprint. For instance, the fingerprint could belong to another logger whose pen leaked onto their finger as they signed.

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55 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

No I meant, when checking the log and a signature is found missing, how do you know if the fingerprint belongs to the person who didn't sign, if they don't mention they left a fingerprint. For instance, the fingerprint could belong to another logger whose pen leaked onto their finger as they signed.

I don't think the guidelines specify anywhere that you have to tell the CO exactly what your signature looks like or what mark you left on the logsheet.

 

Regarding the hockey/tennis analogy thrown around... Funny... I don't remember geocaching ever being a game with scoring and winners and losers.  If it is, then you'd want to ask yourself if you're being all by the book and deleting people's logs just so you keep them down and you can win against them.  I don't play that way, I just play for me and let others play for themselves. :)

 

(Yes I did recently delete a log on a cache - a very hard puzzle cache that only one person has legitimately found, and only after I checked the logsheet to make sure.)

 

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21 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

If it is, then you'd want to ask yourself if you're being all by the book and deleting people's logs just so you keep them down and you can win against them.

Um, no, and crazy to suggest it.Shows how much you don't know me. If I felt that way I wouldn't be logging my DNFs and I do log them. As I have said elsewhere multiple times, I nearly always check with the person first to have them point out their signature to me, so the story you wrote is yours, not mine.

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23 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Um, no, and crazy to suggest it.Shows how much you don't know me. If I felt that way I wouldn't be logging my DNFs and I do log them. As I have said elsewhere multiple times, I nearly always check with the person first to have them point out their signature to me, so the story you wrote is yours, not mine.

 

That wasn't aimed at you, GW.  And you've taken my comment out of context by snipping what I said. I said "Regarding the hockey/tennis analogy thrown around..."

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21 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

 

That wasn't aimed at you, GW.  And you've taken my comment out of context by snipping what I said. I said "Regarding the hockey/tennis analogy thrown around..."

Sorry, I didn't register the "Regarding the hockey/tennis analogy thrown around...", only that you replied to me. My mistake. Sometimes I can look at something and not see it.

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15 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

 

 

Hardly reliable. I mean, even something as high-tech as a retinal scanner can be defeated with a spoon!

 

There's got to be a better way to remove an eye ball

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1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

There's got to be a better way to remove an eye ball

 

tumblr_inline_o95iqaIvCI1r8a94o_500.gif

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Yesterday, I had a log come in on a cache of mine that said "he didn't have a pen, but the log was nice and dry". This didn't sound valid to me so I sent a PM right away asking him to describe the cache or the area at gz so I could let the log stand. Nothing happened after 24 hours, so I deleted it. About an hour ago he responds with correct info, but now doesn't want a find since I deleted his "honest find". And claims it says more about me than him. 

 

Just following the geocaching guidelines about signing logs.

Maybe I was too hasty deleting it, but in this 'instantly happening' world where caches are logged from phones, I thought I allowed enough time for a response.

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13 minutes ago, XHawk said:

Maybe I was too hasty deleting it, but in this 'instantly happening' world where caches are logged from phones, I thought I allowed enough time for a response.

 

I can assure you that if you were to use the MC to send me a request for info you wouldn't get a timely reply either, I just wouldn't see it.If on holiday I might also not answer within 24 hours even if you use regular email. In any case 24 hours can be a short time for many reasons as you noticed.

 

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19 minutes ago, XHawk said:

Maybe I was too hasty deleting it, but in this 'instantly happening' world where caches are logged from phones, I thought I allowed enough time for a response.

 

There are still plenty of people who cache with a GPSr and the website rather than use a phone app, and even amongst those that do, not everyone is glued to their phone 24/7. I've found the Message Centre is rather hit and miss as to whether I get an email when I've been messaged, and if I don't it's only when I go to the website and happen to notice the small orange dot up the top that I realise someone's trying to contact me. Some of the logs on my caches are from visitors to the area who might be doing a lot of travelling, perhaps in areas without phone coverage, and might not be able to check the website until they return home. Occasionally I'll get a log from an international visitor (those are mainly on a Sydney cache I adopted) so I'd have to allow for them perhaps being on an aeroplane for a day or two and out of touch with the world if they've come from Europe.

 

On those occasions when I've needed to question a log (usually on my EC when someone has logged a find but hasn't sent me any answers), I'll initially send a query through the Message Centre. If I don't receive a reply after a week, I'll follow it up with an email through the website forwarder and give them another week. If still no reply, they'll get a "last chance" message and/or email and then, a day or two later, I'll delete the log. So all up, at least three weeks for any sort of response before I'll pull the delete trigger.

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