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Cheminer Will

Questions About GPSMAP 66 Geocaching Use (orMAP64)

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Again, I'm going to suggest using Basecamp to manage your personal waypoints. The symbol options match the symbols that are available on the GPS, and there's no way that they will be exported to your GPS as geocaches.

 

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Please see this as well:

 

@mineral2: Custom Symbols also remap built in geocache icons. ;-)

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44 minutes ago, HHL said:

The 66 uses several icons for every possible cache type whereas the 60 only knows waypoints and ONE symbol for geocaches.

You MUST use the Custom Symbols feature. Create a symbol like it is shown in the help files that we are linked to (PLEASE read them now) and name it Traditional Cache.bmp.

Copy that bmp file into the appropriate folder on your Garmin unit. The firmware will automatically map this custom symbol against the built in one.

 

Hans

 

The 'CustomSymbols' feature is not required to view geocaches on the GPSr with standard geocaching.com symbols.

Edited by Atlas Cached

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9 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

The 'CustomSymbols' feature is not required to view geocaches on the GPSr with standard geocaching.com symbols.

Right. But Cheminer Will wants to have the old orange chest icon as a replacement. ;-)

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1 minute ago, HHL said:

Right. But Cheminer Will wants to have the old orange chest icon as a replacement. 😉

 

 

Correct. The icon is old just like me so a good match!  But since the 66 is using the open chest for found caches and I am used to it, I figure why not change the unfound icon to the chest also. Still working on figuring it out.

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4 minutes ago, Cheminer Will said:

Still working on figuring it out.

The only way is CustomSymbols. 🙄

You've been told several times how to create a custom symbol. Now DO it.

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1 minute ago, HHL said:

You've been told several times how to create a custom symbol. 

 

That is what I meant I am trying to figure out and I am making some progress.  I now know exactly what to do with the custom symbols once I have them.  Just need to get some in hand to use.

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The reason not to use the unfound chest is that you lose the ability to distinguish among cache types if you change all caches to the chest. Honestly, I like the previous generation of symbols - the green box for traditions, the double yellow box for multi's, the blue question mark for mystery caches (ok, these can sometimes be hard to see depending on the map you are using), the white ghost for virtuals, and the comic text bubble for events.

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1 minute ago, Cheminer Will said:

Just need to get some in hand to use.

An easy way to get the standard geocache chest icon:

1. Create a waypoint on your Garmin unit. Select the chest as the icon.

2. Move the waypoint to a map section were no map content is cluttering the icon.

3. Do a Screenshot on the Garmin (Settings > Display > Screenshot: On)

4. Cut the icon and create now a bmp file from that cut.

5. Save the new icon with the appropriate name (Traditional Cache.bmp) and colour depth to the Garmin folder CustomSymbols

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1 hour ago, Atlas Cached said:

Skip GSAK and download some geocaches on your GPSMAP 66 directly using the geocaching page, and let us know how those appear on the map and list....

 

FWIW: I directly downloaded two found caches and two unfound.  The found use the old open chest symbol and the unfound use the small green circle with the tiny container within it, the same as caches sent from GSAK.

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14 minutes ago, Cheminer Will said:

The found use the old open chest symbol and the unfound use the small green circle with the tiny container within it, the same as caches sent from GSAK.

Yes. Those are the icons in the GPS that correspond to a found geocache and an unfound traditional cache.

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59 minutes ago, HHL said:

Right. But Cheminer Will wants to have the old orange chest icon as a replacement. 😉

My bad, I didn't realize he wanted the older symbols 8^)

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48 minutes ago, Cheminer Will said:

 

That is what I meant I am trying to figure out and I am making some progress.  I now know exactly what to do with the custom symbols once I have them.  Just need to get some in hand to use.

Just make them. That information and process was on that page also 8^)

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Garmin's Waypoint Icons are found there:

http://www.javawa.nl/customsymbols_en.html

Download them. Unzip it.

Copy it over to the CustomSymbols folder on your Garmin and then rename the Geocache icon to Traditional Cache.bmp.

Edited by HHL

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54 minutes ago, HHL said:

An easy way to get the standard geocache chest icon:

1. Create a waypoint on your Garmin unit. Select the chest as the icon.

2. Move the waypoint to a map section were no map content is cluttering the icon.

3. Do a Screenshot on the Garmin (Settings > Display > Screenshot: On)

4. Cut the icon and create now a bmp file from that cut.

5. Save the new icon with the appropriate name (Traditional Cache.bmp) and colour depth to the Garmin folder CustomSymbols

 

Thanks that was easy to follow even for a technically challenged old fart like me and worked great!  Now the tiny green symbol for unfound geocaches is replaced by the old chest.

 

4 minutes ago, HHL said:

Garmin's Waypoint Icons are found there:

http://www.javawa.nl/customsymbols_en.html

Download them. Unzip it.

Rename the Geocache icon to Traditional Cache.bmp and copy it over to the CustomSymbols folder on your Garmin

 

Thanks for that also. I was looking for a file like that and did not find it.  Many in there that I may use.

 

Interesting that after all this time of me being frustrated by not figuring out this symbol process and of me frustrating some of you by not getting it quickly,  the problem was solved by two succinct, easy posts.  Appreciate all the help! 

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3 hours ago, HHL said:

@mineral2: Custom Symbols also remap built in geocache icons. 😉

My bad - I thought we were trying to correct icons for his personal waypoints collection.

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1 hour ago, Mineral2 said:

My bad - I thought we were trying to correct icons for his personal waypoints collection.

No, you are good as now I have moved on to maintaining my personal waypoints in BaseCamp rather than GSAK so I am going back to the posts that addressed that idea to get up to speed.

 

@Mineral2 And so far I really like the suggestion as I can make each waypoint much more specific for its use: Symbols, Names, Notes and Description, Category, etc.   Will be a little work updating each point for BaseCamp.  I tried exporting a BaseCamp file from GSAK where all my waypoints currently are, but those did not end up exactly the same for editing as waypoints created in BaseCamp.  

Edited by Cheminer Will

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Well, this has been fun. I've never really bothered to customize my waypoint symbols, so I took the time to do the opposite of what Cheminer Will wanted, which was to convert the old geocache symbols into the new circular ones that Geocaching.com uses on their map. And it worked. At first I used the larger icons when zoomed in on the map and they took up too much map real estate on my Oregon 600. So I went back and discovered that the first two zoom levels that show icons rather than dots use a smaller icon, and these work much better on the GPS. For the most part, I never had a problem with the original symbols. In fact I like the traditional cache and multi cache, but the unknown question mark can sometimes get lost in the detail of the map, as can the letterbox, virtual, and webcam symbols. These "new" symbols stand out much better and look sharp. And it'll be nice to have a smiley on my map rather than an open chest when viewing found caches. Maybe later I'll experiment with the smaller colored dot. But for now I want to distinguish between cache types within a color category.

@Cheminer Will, you might want to reconsider changing the geocache icon to that generic treasure chest. That symbol is big, clunky, and ugly. I currently use it when marking my own hides as regular waypoints, but I think I'm going to use something else.

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10 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

Will, you might want to reconsider changing the geocache icon to that generic treasure chest. That symbol is big, clunky, and ugly. I currently use it when marking my own hides as regular waypoints, but I think I'm going to use something else.

 

I was already thinking the same now that I finally absorbed how easy it is to change them!  A smiley is good, but I really did not like that geocache container as it seemed too small for my old eyes and of a color that blended in to the background of my topo map. Did you find a source for the files that you changed to?

Edited by Cheminer Will

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Thanks!  Very nice of you.  Just downloaded them and I think I will use a few. Really appreciate it.  Yes that green traditional is the one I can not see well on my 66 map.  So I will use another for that.

 

I have been transferring all my personal waypoints to BaseCamp and it definitely seems like it will be a better way to manage them.  I don't like how BaseCamp does categories though so far.  I may just not categorize each waypoint and make sure to do a well organized job setting up folders and lists to stay organized.  How do you organize yours?  With categories, or just with the directory structure of folders and lists?

Edited by Cheminer Will

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You can try the larger icons. For me they were too big. At some point I'll also try to get the older icons for use on the newer GPS. They're not bad, but these ones I made do help if you have a busy basemap. Keep in mind that the pixel size on the GPS is much larger than on your computer screen, so even though they seem small now, they may be acceptable on your GPS.

 

2530.png.19b2ff6d4d3ecfcfe6e0706f738e099e.png2566.png.b8128c32456fc31350bc47cfb41595d2.png2584.png.9a67cc4361476b48d0f21b510c5327cb.png

Edited by Mineral2

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8 hours ago, Cheminer Will said:

I looked at the GPSrChive link you posted yesterday and interestingly did not see either the yellow treasure chest or the tiny green/blue container in their list of "existing" symbols for the 66.  

 

Thank you for pointing this out, it has lead me to realize that while most geocache symbols do not appear in the waypoint list on the GPSr, the generic 'Geocache' and 'Geocache Found' symbols are in fact displayed in the 'Outdoor' category! I never noticed this before! Mostly because I don't use most of those symbols, so I have never looked at them that closely. You didn't see the traditional closed chest symbol because that GPSr is using custom geocache symbols for both 'geocache' and 'geocache found'.

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Speaking of symbols again, I have tried making a couple of new icon symbols for my BaseCamp waypoints and putting them in the directory Garmin says as below.  Also tried moving a couple of other icons that others made into that directory.  The icons files I am now using successfully on the 66 do not seem to work in BaseCamp. I also opened and resaved a couple of those files in different formats. I don't think I am correctly getting them into the 24-bit format maybe. I am sure it my lack of technical ability hampering me again.  Does anyone have a link to a source of icon symbols that will give me more choice than the default ones in BaseCamp?

 

  • Width and height of the image must be 32x32 pixels
  • Saved as a 24-bit Windows Bitmap (.BMP) or Portable Network Graphics (.PNG) file format
  • Saved named must be 000 through 063 (E.G., 044.BMP or 044.PNG) 
  • Transparency is allowed by using the RGB color Magenta(255,0,255) or hex color code: ff00ff
  • Save image in the proper location:
  • Windows Vista / 7 / 8 / 10 - C:\Users\%USERNAME%\Documents\My Garmin\Custom Waypoint Symbols\
Edited by Cheminer Will

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With regard to geocaches, Basecamp only sees a generic geocache and does not have different symbols for different geocache types. Don't worry about geocaching symbols in basecamp because you'll use GSAK to manage those. you probably aren't seeing geocaches anyway because Basecamp can't read GGZ files.

With regard to waypoints:  Basecamp and the GPSr reads symbols differently. The GPSr reads them by name, and Basecamp reads them by number. It takes some finagling to match the Basecamp number with the symbol name. I haven't gotten this far, but will play around after I get the kids to bed.

Edit: IT should go without saying that you need to drop the files in to the folder while Basecamp is completely closed. Then open Basecamp.

Edited by Mineral2

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26 minutes ago, Cheminer Will said:

Speaking of symbols again, I have tried making a couple of new icon symbols for my BaseCamp waypoints and putting them in the directory Garmin says as below.  Also tried moving a couple of other icons that others made into that directory.  The icons files I am now using successfully on the 66 do not seem to workin BaseCamp. I also opened and resaved a couple of those files in different formats. I don't think I am correctly getting them into the 24-bit format maybe. I am sure it my lack of technical ability hampering me again.  Does anyone have a link to a source of icon symbols that will give me more choice than the default ones in BaseCamp?

 

  • Width and height of the image must be 32x32 pixels
  • Saved as a 24-bit Windows Bitmap (.BMP) or Portable Network Graphics (.PNG) file format
  • Saved named must be 000 through 063 (E.G., 044.BMP or 044.PNG) 
  • Transparency is allowed by using the RGB color Magenta(255,0,255) or hex color code: ff00ff
  • Save image in the proper location:
  • Windows Vista / 7 / 8 / 10 - C:\Users\%USERNAME%\Documents\My Garmin\Custom Waypoint Symbols\

 

And you are doing it exactly as outlined in the Custom Symbol link provided multiple times earlier in this thread?

 

Here it is again: Select Uber User > Custom Symbols

 

Who says you can use PNG?

 

Edited by Atlas Cached

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32 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

Here it is again: Select Uber User > Custom Symbols

 

Who says you can use PNG?

 

1 hour ago, Cheminer Will said:

Speaking of symbols again, I have tried making a couple of new icon symbols for my BaseCamp waypoints and putting them in the directory Garmin says as below.

 

Dealing with the symbols for the unit itself became clear to me many posts back.  The symbols referred to now are in BaseCamp for custom waypoints, not caches, which will then be transferred to the 66st.  Mineral's explanation right above your post makes sense though.

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1 hour ago, Mineral2 said:

With regard to geocaches, Basecamp only sees a generic geocache and does not have different symbols for different geocache types. Don't worry about geocaching symbols in basecamp because you'll use GSAK to manage those. you probably aren't seeing geocaches anyway because Basecamp can't read GGZ files.

Yes I have all that setted, figured out and done thanks to everyone's patience.  My 66st is displaying all the types of caches just great now.

 

1 hour ago, Mineral2 said:

With regard to waypoints:  Basecamp and the GPSr reads symbols differently. The GPSr reads them by name, and Basecamp reads them by number. It takes some finagling to match the Basecamp number with the symbol name. I haven't gotten this far, but will play around after I get the kids to bed.

That makes sense although I did try some number options with the new files with no luck.  

 

1 hour ago, Mineral2 said:

should go without saying that you need to drop the files in to the folder while Basecamp is completely closed. Then open Basecamp.

Yes.  I think my issue is indeed that I have the naming wrong, or that I am just not saving the files in the correct format.  I don't have Photoshop or anything but have tried the Windows tools and Irfanview.  It seems to me that those won't save in the 24-bit format. Or I have trouble making them do it.  I am confident that you will figure it out and then I and others will be the beneficiaries!  I don't need a lot of custom symbols for my waypoints, but there are a few types where choosing the best match included within BaseCamp does not really come close.  I only display waypoint symbols on the map so I want the symbols to make some sense particular types of waypoints.  Right now I have too many that are just using the "Information" symbol.

Edited by Cheminer Will

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Just out of curiosity, what are these waypoints for/of that the built-in symbols won't do?

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One example is that I have a lot of waypoints that give information about hikes I have done.  Not just points on the trail, but things other than the trail or about the trail.  Everything from crossing trails, to nice lunch spots, to unusually large Madrone trees or areas to look for breeding tree frogs in April. (Yes really.)  Also many waypoints on forest roads getting to the trails.  Many of these I just gave the "I" information icon too, but I would like, (not need), to break them down further into groups a little more specific than an "I" which would allow me to know more about a symbol at a glance than I can tell from just an "I".  If it turns out to be very difficult to add waypoint icon symbols to BaseCamp, I certainly can do without a wider choice.  But if I can figure it out and easily add a bunch of different ones, I will be happy using them.

Edited by Cheminer Will

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9 hours ago, Cheminer Will said:

 

That makes sense although I did try some number options with the new files with no luck.  

 

 

You know you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?

 

 

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7 hours ago, Cheminer Will said:

If it turns out to be very difficult to add waypoint icon symbols to BaseCamp, I certainly can do without a wider choice.  But if I can figure it out and easily add a bunch of different ones, I will be happy using them.

 

It is extremely easy to add custom waypoint symbols to BaeCamp and match them with your GPSr.

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I gotta say that adding a custom waypoint to both the GPS and Basecamp wasn't that hard. I was tired of the big treasure chest that I've been using to mark my own hides, so I created a symbol based on geocaching.com's star to denote your own hides. I added the icon to the GPS as 'Custom 1.bmp' and to Basecamp as '001.bmp' and changed each waypoint to the star icon in Basecamp, and they show up that way on the GPS.

Check your file names. There needs to be a space between the "Custom" and the number - there are no leading zeros in the file name for the GPS, but there are for the Basecamp file, and check letter case. If the symbol is working in your GPS, it should work in Basecamp as well.

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@Mineral2 Just for clarification, I am now using custom geocache symbols on the 66 thanks to help here.   This morning I got the custom waypoint symbols working in BaseCamp also.  So for example one of the test files I now have in the Win 10  >Documents>My Garmin>Custom Waypoint Symbols folder is an image of the letter "T" saved as 008.bmp.  That "T" image file shows up fine in BaseCamp when assigned to a waypoint.  

 

I have also saved that same letter "T" file to the same folder on the 66st as the custom geocache symbols.  That is  >Garmin>CustomSymbols and named it 'Custom 8.bmp'. 

 

However when I put the waypoint that is assigned the "T" symbol, on the 66st it shows up with the blue flag not with the "T" that shows in BaseCamp. Also if I select that waypoint on the 66 and try to assign it a new symbol, the "T" file I put in the >CustomSymbols directory is not one of the choices. 

 

I found a garmin help page that explicitly says: "Symbols should be saved in the Garmin (drive) > Garmin (directory) > CustomSymbols (directory) so I have that part right.

Edited by Cheminer Will

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Do you have Custom 1 throuh 7 used? It's possible that the GPS doesn't read Custom 8 until Custom 1 ... Custom 7 are occupied. Try starting with Custom 1 and 001 in Basecamp.

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Yes 1-7 are used by Garmin, not files I created.  Sorry that is the directory on the computer. No on the 66 there is no 1-7.  I will delete and resave the file as Custom 1.bmp and check if that helps.

 

To be clear, when I try to choose a custom waypoint symbol on the 66, I do have the choice of all the symbols that I assigned in BaseCamp from BaseCamp's list of installed symbols.  Once I assign any of those to a waypoint, they do show up on the map of the 66 and in the menu choice for assigning symbols to a waypoint.  It is just the custom ones I try to add that show and work fine in BaseCamp but do not show on the 66. 

Edited by Cheminer Will

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Just cleared out the custom files I had put on the 66 in the Garmin>Custom Symbols folder to start clean.  Then I saved one new symbol image file, "T" to that folder naming it Custom 1.bmp.  I have the same symbol image "T" saved in BaseCamp as 001.bmp.  In BaseCamp I assigned the 001.bmp file as the symbol for "Test" waypoint.  It shows up in BaseCamp and displays the "T" symbol which is assigned to it.  I then sent that waypoint to the 66.  It shows up on the map as "Test".  So far, so good.  BUT, it does not have the "T" symbol, it is a blue flag.  Then in BaseCamp when I pick that "Test" waypoint and try to choose a symbol for it, the only choices in the list are the Garmin provided symbols I already assigned to other waypoints in BaseCamp. The custom image file for the "T" symbol is not showing.

 

One might think that I have the "T" symbol file saved in the wrong folder or something so the 66 can't see it.  But it is indeed on the 66 in the Garmin>CustomSymbols folder.  So maybe there is something about the Custom 1.bmp file that I am saving from GIMP that the 66 does not like?

 

edit:  @Mineral2 o tried simply adding a custom symbol to my 66 and no luck getting it to show in the list of choices.  Maybe I am not saving the files correctly as described in the parts of the below instructions.  I tried using both Paint and GIMP but just may not be doing those steps correctly.  When you have time, are you able to put a couple of image files that you know work for you on to your Google Drive Alternate Garmin Symbols page?  Then I could download those and see if they show up on my 66.  If they do, then I will know for sure the problem is with my image files. Thanks.

 

  Create a custom symbol with the following guidelines: 
    Create an image that is no larger than 32 pixels in width or height
    Create transparent pixels by setting the color to magenta (RGB= 255, 0, 255)
    Save the custom symbol with the following guidelines: 
    If applicable, ensure no color space information is saved
    Ensure the image is saved as a 24-bit Windows-style bitmap format
-(I saved them as .bmp, but could not see how to make sure they were 24-Bit)
    New symbols can be given any filename (i.e. “New Symbol.bmp”)

    Symbols should be saved in the Garmin (drive) > Garmin (directory) > CustomSymbols (directory)
    Ensure no more than 56 custom symbols are installed to the device

Edited by Cheminer Will

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I'm really not sure where the problem is. You're doing everything correctly as you describe it. Maybe the way you are saving them in GIMP is causing a problem. Or maybe the 66 doesn't support custom symbols (unlikely), or the naming convention on the GPS has changed. If you feel like sharing your files, I'd be happy to play around and see if I can reproduce the problem on my end.

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I'm not sure I know how to share files.  I was able to download yours yesterday from the Google Drive link you provided so that is why I thought if you put a couple of the image files you have working there, I could download them and put them on my 66 and see if they show up.  If they do, then I know for sure it my inexperience with creating image files that is the problem.  I don't mind sending you files I have been trying to use, just not sure how to do that other than in a direct email.
 
 

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@Mineral2   Never mind.  It seems it is definitely a problem with the way I am saving the files.  I save them in in .bmp format, but may not get those settings shown below in red correct.  I now know this because I downloaded some symbols at this site.  There were two file sets, one for BaseCamp and one for the GPSr. 

 

I took 4 files of both versions and put the 4 BaseCamp files in  >My Garmin>Custom Waypoint Symbols and the 4 GPSr files on the 66 in the CustomSymbols folder, exactly like I have been doing with my files.  And his files work perfectly.  I assigned one of those symbols to a waypoint in BaseCamp and send it to the 66 and it shows up on the map with the same symbol.  If you edit a waypoint to assign a different symbol, his 4 are there on the list available for use.

 

So, the problem is that I am doing something incorrectly with the files I am making or converting in my image software.  I have tried using Paint, Irfanview, and GIMP.  In none of those did I find settings than made me confident I was getting the below settings correct.  All I could tell for sure was that they were the correct size and saved as .bmp.

 

2 hours ago, Cheminer Will said:

Create transparent pixels by setting the color to magenta (RGB= 255, 0, 255)
    Save the custom symbol with the following guidelines: 
    If applicable, ensure no color space information is saved
    Ensure the image is saved as a 24-bit Windows-style bitmap format

 

Edited by Cheminer Will

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Hmm. It's been a while since I've used GIMP, but it should be able to handle the export. But if not, Paint.net is known to work.

https://www.getpaint.net/

By the way, I finished the icons for geocaching with all 12 available symbols, and I made a set of symbols that came from the older GPS in case you like any of those as well.

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Just now, Mineral2 said:

By the way, I finished the icons for geocaching with all 12 available symbols, and I made a set of symbols that came from the older GPS in case you like any of those as well.

That would be great if you put them on your Drive page and I could download them.  Or I can contact you through the geocaching site and give you a direct email address. Whatever is best for you.  Thanks!

 

I will look at Paint.net.  I suspect the programs I tried would do it too and that I was just not using them correctly. 

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4 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

Do you have Custom 1 throuh 7 used? It's possible that the GPS doesn't read Custom 8 until Custom 1 ... Custom 7 are occupied. Try starting with Custom 1 and 001 in Basecamp.

 

This is not the issue. Likely the file uses an improper color or is not of the correct bit depth.

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51 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

This is not the issue. Likely the file uses an improper color or is not of the correct bit depth.

I think we figured out that it's something to do with the way GIMP is saving the files. Maybe they're not saving as Windows Bitmap whereas Photoshop gives some options for saving, both the bitmap and the bit encoding. Hopefully Paint.net works. It's one of the suggested programs from GPSrChive whereas Gimp was not.

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On 12/18/2018 at 7:54 PM, Mineral2 said:

I think we figured out that it's something to do with the way GIMP is saving the files. Maybe they're not saving as Windows Bitmap whereas Photoshop gives some options for saving, both the bitmap and the bit encoding. Hopefully Paint.net works. It's one of the suggested programs from GPSrChive whereas Gimp was not.

 

Just as a wrap up to this:  It was GIMP, or at least my inability to get the files saved correctly with GIMP.  Once I downloaded Paint.net, it was easy to make sure the files were being saved in the needed format.  I have installed several custom symbols now and they show up perfectly on the 66 and in BaseCamp.  As a side note, I have also moved over all my personal hiking waypoints to BaseCamp and out of GSAK.  Much easier and cleaner way of handling them.

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Excellent! I believe paint.net is the recommended image editing software at GPSrChive.com. Thank for updating us!

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