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Deepdiggingmole

Earthcaches and photos

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I am aware that some time ago it became a rule that photos provided as proof of presence were no longer required for earthcaches  - I always disagreed with that as I felt that as with many 'virtual' caches (non physical container types) it is very possible to obtain the required answers without going to the location. I appreciate that with many newer earthcaches the COs will endeavour to put in one question that does go some way to prove presence. Many of the older earthcaches were not so stringent mainly because there was the requirement to have a photo at the location, and to be honest every seeker of earthcaches didn't object to this. 
However, and my point, not having this requirement any longer has highlighted an issue regarding proof of presence - Today I had a log on one of my earthcaches having received the answers (I will add that I do give leeway with the questions as I am sure many EC COs do, and so allowed the find) - However I do like to be nosy sometimes and I wanted to see what other caches had been found in the area .
None. Not one cache found today other than this EC. (Also he has not found any other caches in that country - this is an important point) 
It is unusual to travel to another country and only log an EC which is close to several Trads and miles away from any residential areas as is the case with this one, for this reason I dug a little deeper. I discover the day before (yesterday, 12th) this cacher had completed a trail in his home country as well as logging another EC in another country some 7,500 miles away. He then (allegedly) travelled a further 5,500 miles  the next day to find my EC. This cacher can not prove he was in either country and has not challenged / responded to my message to him.
Oh!  and I'll point out here - both of these countries have had new souvenirs as reported 2 days ago (11th)  !!!! - so he has spuriously logged 2 ECs in 2 of the newly souvenir'd countries. Now unless he can prove he was actually there (oh! a photo would do the job) other than often woolly answers he will get away with obtaining these two new souvenirs without leaving his home country.
An addendum to this - if the COs of both of these ECs decide to delete these logs (I do not want this discussion to go into the ins and outs of deleting - this is not the topic)  that will not upset this cacher as the souvenirs remain - yes, his task is complete - he has obtained two new country souvenirs which will remain on his profile as these do not get deleted even if the logs do (the point made above about the cache noted being the only one found in that country - if deleted he no longer has a cache found in that country as another part of his stats profile will show) 

So - having the requirement to have a photo taken at the site of an EC did have an important purpose, it is a shame it was removed 
Souvenirs not being deleted when it can be seen that they were not obtained truthfully (identified through log deletion) makes the obtaining souvenirs a bit of a farce (also make related challenge caches for souvenir numbers less enticing)

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I occasionally will single out EC’s when I’m traveling and ignore nearby caches. I think your assumption is spurious and I have no wish for photos to be brought back as a logging requirement. I’m fine with requests for photos, and often oblige. 

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2 hours ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

"I think your assumption is spurious"

Which assumption is that ?

I assumed that Touchstone was referring to this assumption:

 

On 12/13/2018 at 10:44 AM, Deepdiggingmole said:

It is unusual to travel to another country and only log an EC which is close to several Trads and miles away from any residential areas as is the case with this one

I often target specific caches and walk past others that I pass along the way.

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4 minutes ago, niraD said:
On 12/14/2018 at 5:44 AM, Deepdiggingmole said:

It is unusual to travel to another country and only log an EC which is close to several Trads and miles away from any residential areas as is the case with this one

I often target specific caches and walk past others that I pass along the way.

 

That can happen if someone is working on a challenge cache and needs a particular type of cache, D/T combination, attribute set or whatever. I haven't travelled to another country to do that, but I've driven over 100km from home just to get one cache with the D/T rating I needed.

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5 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

That can happen if someone is working on a challenge cache and needs a particular type of cache, D/T combination, attribute set or whatever. I haven't travelled to another country to do that, but I've driven over 100km from home just to get one cache with the D/T rating I needed.

It can also happen once someone gets over the Pokemon mentality and realizes that you don't "Gotta Catch 'Em All".

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I only have a single find in Norway; an Earthcache. Why?

 

Because at the time I was visiting I was still new to caching and didn't feel comfortable searching for things in a crowded place and we had a limited time in Oslo.

Because at the time I was traveling with a muggle who had no interest in stopping to cache.

Because the Earthcache was the least intrusive cache on a trip that wasn't about caching.

 

Doesn't mean I wasn't there or that I didn't complete the requirements... it just means that caching wasn't the most important part of that trip for me.

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Although there are other problems with the situation the OP describes, I agree that logging only an earthcache and not any traditionals is far from unusual.   I have logged only a single earthcache in a couple of states and there are countries where I have found only earthcaches or virtuals.  

 

I don't know how many times - including today - where I have seen other logs refer to nearby traditionals that I had no idea were there.   I don't know how many times I knew about traditionals near earthcaches but had no reason to search for them.

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On my recent trip I cached in 8 countries, found 14 physical caches but 40 ECs and Virtuals, frequently being happy to ignore a trad near the EC.

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Not that I want to pile onto the OP, but I definitely disagree with the suggestion that a photo should be required as proof of visit/presence.  That's what the tasks should do.  You don't prove you've learned something by posting a photo of yourself standing next to a rock.  I didn't get my engineering degree by posting a selfie in a lecture theatre.  I do lament, a little, that we can't require a photo where it is a useful part of the earthcache experience - identifying a feature or documenting activity or change over time.  But not purely physical presence, otherwise an earthcache is just a virtual near a rock.

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Ok
With regard to all the comments relating to an apparent assumption that 'It is unusual to travel to another country and only log an EC which is close to several Trads and miles away from any residential areas as is the case with this one' - (and this wasn't the issue to be discussed - why has it become the main response ???)
I didn't say that it doesn't happen, I said it is unusual - I am well aware as to the variety of reasons (as given) where it does happen, but relative to the issue that I described (in OP) as a whole and not singling out sentences - this scenario did appear Unusual and further investigation proved my suspicion. 

Further investigation revealed that this individual appears to have logged at least 25 ECs and virtuals one each in 25 different countries, on one occasion 5 countries in one day - not having been to any of those countries - all for the sole purpose of getting the souvenirs - he has tried to be clever in doing it on days he hadn't found any other caches but failed on a few occasions where for example he found a trail in his home country (west Europe) and then a virtual in Japan - all on the same day !!!!! (oh and before anyone says this is possible - he then finds more in his home country the next day - he hasn't been to Japan - accept it !
.........and the 5 countries in one day. Really!!..... France, Turkey, Iraq, Germany, Dominican Republic  !!!!!!!
Had he been required to take a photo - he would not have been able to do this - someone mentioned the possibility of grabbing certain caches to work towards goals in challenge caches - yup! I do that too. though I have never travelled to a country with the sole intention of finding one cache to do this - we did hop over to Turkey once for a day trip (from Kos) and had planned to seek out as many as we could while there - however for various reasons we did only manage to get the one. 
It appears that the goal for my spurious logger may be related to challenges as there are many challenge caches requiring a certain number of 'souvenirs' - to get to a target without leaving the comfort of your own home is cheating and (not to want to sound repetitive) had he been required to take a photo - he would not have been able to do this.
It is odd that there are objections to the requirement of a photo - it was done before, nobody objected then - many people do it now,  even though there isn't a requirement and it takes far less time to take a picture/selfie than it does gather the answers for an EC (in most cases) 
This is all to do with proof of presence - I know that questions should be set that would cover this and that's fine - but many older ECs do not do that. Had he been required to take a photo I would not have questioned it. Oddly the majority of people who do do my EC post photos of themselves at the location 

 

 

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Why are you insisting on a photo requirement when your original post says that this might not stop the behavior you are talking about anyway?

This cacher would log a cache without a photo, or with an unrelated photo, and get his souvenir.  He does not care if the log is then deleted - he has his unearned souvenir.

Sure, we can then look at his profile and see that he has no caches in that country.  But he has the souvenir, so he doesn't care what you say!!!

 

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7 hours ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

With regard to all the comments relating to an apparent assumption that 'It is unusual to travel to another country and only log an EC which is close to several Trads and miles away from any residential areas as is the case with this one' - (and this wasn't the issue to be discussed - why has it become the main response ???)

Maybe because you asked...

 

On 12/14/2018 at 10:08 AM, Deepdiggingmole said:

"I think your assumption is spurious"

Which assumption is that ?

 

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I don't see a find for 13 December on any of the OP's three earthcaches, so I presume the find was either not dated 13 December, or was deleted.  I'm curious as to which one it was and how close the answers were to be allowable.

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I mainly look for earthcaches and virtual caches.  The city that I am currently in, the traditional caches are of no interest.  There is one in a strip mall nearby, to me this is lame, as one strip mall looks like another.  So I would very well ignore the lamppost, guardrail, other urban hides in another country to go to an interesting earthcache.  I do agree that it is odd for the person to travel thousands of miles overnight and get a cache.

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Another issue around this I have found when I have done earthcaches and might answer the above, often COs don't send any sort of reply, thus i wouldn't know if I got the questions right, I know the response to this is that if there is an issue the CO will get in contact, but I know many who don't bother checkung. A quick reply to say all good is better than nothing and doesn't take a minute. Spurious loggers rely on COs not bothering to check and another reason they get away with logging caches they don't go to. 

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 10:23 PM, Deepdiggingmole said:

Another issue around this I have found when I have done earthcaches and might answer the above, often COs don't send any sort of reply, thus i wouldn't know if I got the questions right, I know the response to this is that if there is an issue the CO will get in contact, but I know many who don't bother checkung. A quick reply to say all good is better than nothing and doesn't take a minute. Spurious loggers rely on COs not bothering to check and another reason they get away with logging caches they don't go to. 

 

I'll respond to this as I'm one of those COs that often don't reply.

 

- I'm a busy person.  I like to set up earthcaches where I see that there is something interesting I can bring people to, but I don't necessarily have time for hundreds of emails each day (not as much of an exaggeration as you might think)

- I'm not your mother (no I really don't mean you specifically, but it's a figure of speech) so I'm not out to check up on everything every cacher does

- I am trying to enhance the game overall in my own teeny tiny way, and mostly cater for those geocachers who are actually interested and play the game correctly, but

- Cheaters will be cheaters

- If I see a cheater log, I will delete

- But otherwise I don't put my efforts into managing cheaters because of points 2 and 3 above

 

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On 12/20/2018 at 11:25 AM, hzoi said:

I don't see a find for 13 December on any of the OP's three earthcaches, so I presume the find was either not dated 13 December, or was deleted.  I'm curious as to which one it was and how close the answers were to be allowable.

I wont say - but there are many clues above which would identify which one - but does it really matter !!!! ;-) 

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