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rustynails.

Logging rules in Canada

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9 minutes ago, rustynails. said:

Do Canadians have different logging rules?  

https://coord.info/GC6P2EF

Apparently this is related to the following Note that was logged earlier today:

 

"I found a way to increase my cache finds - log a find on recently archived caches. Nobody can prove you didn't find it if the container isn't there, right? I guess that's how they do it in Canada, eh."

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1 minute ago, niraD said:

Apparently this is related to the following Note that was logged earlier today:

 

"I found a way to increase my cache finds - log a find on recently archived caches. Nobody can prove you didn't find it if the container isn't there, right? I guess that's how they do it in Canada, eh."

 

I think it's more related to the two "Found It" logs that were the impetus for the Write Note log you quoted.

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Let's see...two cachers logged DNF's on 9/24, amid of string of DNF's by other cachers, and then logged an NM on 9/29.

The cache was then Disabled by a Reviewer on 11/1 and then Archived by a Reviewer on 12/2.

Those two cachers then logged Found It's on 12/2.

 

If I'm understanding the text (via Google Translate) of those two post-archival Found It logs - then the two cachers are saying it's okay to log the cache they couldn't find, because the CO didn't maintain it like they're supposed to. Interesting thought process.

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19 minutes ago, noncentric said:

Let's see...two cachers logged DNF's on 9/24, amid of string of DNF's by other cachers, and then logged an NM on 9/29.

The cache was then Disabled by a Reviewer on 11/1 and then Archived by a Reviewer on 12/2.

Those two cachers then logged Found It's on 12/2.

 

If I'm understanding the text (via Google Translate) of those two post-archival Found It logs - then the two cachers are saying it's okay to log the cache they couldn't find, because the CO didn't maintain it like they're supposed to. Interesting thought process.

Yes, this is what I'm referring too.

Edited by rustynails.
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Good to know it's not just Americans with a sense of entitlement. :P

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2 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Good to know it's not just Americans with a sense of entitlement. :P

 

It's not just North Americans that play loose with the guidelines.   Taking advantage of a an archived cache to increase ones find count is not unique to players from specific countries.  Let's not pin geocaching behaviors on any country.  That suggests that everyone from Canada or "America" plays the game that way. 

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8 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

Let's not pin geocaching behaviors on any country. 

 

Yeah, but those  "Greetings from America"  logs do get annoying sometimes.       :laughing:

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FTR, apparently the two Found It logs have been deleted. I don't see them.

 

And no, that's not how we play here. :rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, TriciaG said:

FTR, apparently the two Found It logs have been deleted. I don't see them.

 

And no, that's not how we play here. :rolleyes:

 

The Canadian found it logs are gone. I don't think the CO deleted as it appears they're no longer active.

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9 minutes ago, rustynails. said:

The Canadian found it logs are gone. I don't think the CO deleted as it appears they're no longer active.

 

Maybe some archived caches works like a honeypot.

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Makes you wonder when people come to the forums asking how to find archived caches. 

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This type of logging behaviour is neither common nor limited to Canadian caches or cachers.

 

However, sometimes different cachers come up with their own personal justification for logging a certain way. I've seen a number of occasions where a cacher decided they put in enough effort to find a missing cache such that they felt they were "entitled" to the find. If the CO doesn't delete the log, that implicitly says that the CO is fine with it. I don't log finds like this and wouldn't allow such a log to remain on one of my caches, but other COs can allow it if they want.

 

BTW, greetings from Canada. :ph34r:

Edited by The A-Team
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I agree, not common in Canada.

 

I used to maintain a few bookmark lists of archived caches in my area (1000+ caches?), until I gave up due to sheer volume, thanks to some mass geocides in particular.  Anyway, I'd occasionally get a notification of a log on one of those archived caches, but very very rarely.

 

Greetings from Canada, eh?

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15 hours ago, TriciaG said:

FTR, apparently the two Found It logs have been deleted. I don't see them.

 

And no, that's not how we play here. :rolleyes:

 

Zut alors!

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13 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

Makes you wonder when people come to the forums asking how to find archived caches. 

 

Finding archived caches that are still there is the draw to most people IMO.

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17 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

I used to maintain a few bookmark lists of archived caches in my area (1000+ caches?), until I gave up due to sheer volume, thanks to some mass geocides in particular.  Anyway, I'd occasionally get a notification of a log on one of those archived caches, but very very rarely.

 

My geosphere database has archived caches going back since I began. After loading the PQs, I just check for listings that haven't been updated recently, and typically those are the archived ones because they don't load through PQs or API.  If someone uses an offline DB (also like gsak) then this is something one can keep a record of.

 

I once found an archived cache during a road trip I still had listed as active (but quite lonely) because it was a spontaneous search and I hadn't updated the listing in my app. IIRC it was about 2 years unfound -- er, archived -- and never picked up.  This is why some people like to search for archived caches - to pick up abandoned litter.

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1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

I once found an archived cache during a road trip I still had listed as active (but quite lonely) because it was a spontaneous search and I hadn't updated the listing in my app. IIRC it was about 2 years unfound -- er, archived -- and never picked up.  This is why some people like to search for archived caches - to pick up abandoned litter.

 

Naw.  We did that accidentally.  Looking for a place to hide a cache, we found the final to a multi.  Ammo can!  It had been archived three years previously.

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What's the official stance of the geocaching game regarding logging an archived non-virtual cache?  The container is still in place, the logbook with the GC code is still inside.  Does it count or not?

 

I've logged one cache that had been archived for several years, that I found when looking for another.  

 

I've also logged one cache that I found by accident that hadn't been published yet.  I was FTF several days before it published.  I logged it on the date that I found it which makes the cache listing look a little funny.  :)

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5 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

Does it count or not?

 

Yes it does.

 

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2 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

I once found an archived cache during a road trip I still had listed as active (but quite lonely) because it was a spontaneous search and I hadn't updated the listing in my app. IIRC it was about 2 years unfound -- er, archived -- and never picked up.  This is why some people like to search for archived caches - to pick up abandoned litter.

 

A lady knowing this old fart wouldn't mind strapping an alice-pack frame on his back, would head to archived caches by long-gone owners, known to be ammo cans.

She reused them for an annual game/series that another created years earlier. Most, even the log was still good (but replaced for the game).  

'Course these days, without a CITO you wouldn't get someone interested enough to head out for a pill bottle.  :)

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On 12/3/2018 at 7:41 AM, cerberus1 said:

 

Yeah, but those  "Greetings from America"  logs do get annoying sometimes.       :laughing:

 

Whoaaaaaaaa Nellie,   America is composed of more than the two countries being slammed.

 

          If my geography serves me correctly there are a number of countries in CENTRAL AMERICA annnnnd a number more in SOUTH AMERICA.

 

However, I am old and senile and may be mis-remembering my "GEO-GRAPHY"

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Seconded. I quite often joke about how, well, Canadians are Americans too!  But USAians have pretty much co-opted the name for themselves, and don't really have a similar name for JUST the US citizens.  United States of America.  Canada (of America). :) All the countries in central and south America.  All American.  bah. Whatev. heh

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On 12/4/2018 at 2:20 PM, Harry Dolphin said:

 

Naw.  We did that accidentally.  Looking for a place to hide a cache, we found the final to a multi.  Ammo can!  It had been archived three years previously.

 

Ha, I've found, AND LOGGED, archived caches on several occasions. I even had the privilege to log an archived cache by the OP of this thread. :-)

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4 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

don't really have a similar name for JUST the US citizens

 

Just for curiosity, elsewhere we use word "Yankee" for all U.S. Citizens which is also somehow misleading term.

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1 hour ago, arisoft said:

Just for curiosity, elsewhere we use word "Yankee" for all U.S. Citizens which is also somehow misleading term.

 

The Yankees are the ones who fought the Rebs during the Civil War.  

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30 minutes ago, Harry Dolphin said:

 

The Yankees are the ones who fought the Rebs during the Civil War.  

I thought the ones that fought the rebs were "dadgum Yankees".😆

Down here US persons were, maybe still are, called "seppos" - don't ask.

Edited by colleda
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Just now, colleda said:

I thought the ones that fought the rebs were "dadgum Yankees".😆

Down here US persons were, maybe still are, called "seppos" - don't ask.

dadgum! Text police keep changing my spelling of "dadgum yankees".

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37 minutes ago, colleda said:

dadgum! Text police keep changing my spelling of "dadgum yankees".

Well, dayum! It isn't just Southerners that call them that.  Just ask any Red Sox fan.

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1 hour ago, colleda said:

I thought the ones that fought the rebs were "dadgum Yankees".😆

I thought the ones that played baseball were "Dadgum Yankees". :)

 

Seriously, the term "Yankee" refers to someone from New England, unless your in the South, in which case it's any Northerner. Unless you're outside the US, in which case it's apparently anyone from the US.

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9 hours ago, niraD said:

I thought the ones that played baseball were "Dadgum Yankees". :)

 

Seriously, the term "Yankee" refers to someone from New England, unless your in the South, in which case it's any Northerner. Unless you're outside the US, in which case it's apparently anyone from the US.

 

And to bring this full circle there are some Yankees, that when traveling abroad, will claim to be Canadian to avoid be treated like an "ugly american".

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13 hours ago, niraD said:

Seriously, the term "Yankee" refers to someone from New England, unless your in the South, in which case it's any Northerner.

 

Growing up in the South, I have always preferred the term "carpet bagger."

 

(I was born in East Orange, New Jersey, and I failed to develop much of a southern accent despite growing up in Georgia since the age of 2, so I'm throwing stones at my own glass house.  I blame my carpet bagger parents - from Rochester, NY, and Newark, NJ, respectively.  Of course, my older sister managed to pick up some atrocious plantation belle accent while she was in college in South Carolina, but we picked on her enough that it went away.)

 

Anyway.  What was the topic again?

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On 12/4/2018 at 1:34 PM, GeoElmo6000 said:

What's the official stance of the geocaching game regarding logging an archived non-virtual cache?  The container is still in place, the logbook with the GC code is still inside.  Does it count or not?

 

I've logged one cache that had been archived for several years, that I found when looking for another.  

 

I've also logged one cache that I found by accident that hadn't been published yet.  I was FTF several days before it published.  I logged it on the date that I found it which makes the cache listing look a little funny.  :)

 

Following up on this. I accept that logging archived caches is acceptable provided you can demonstrate that you did indeed find the cache at that location (pictures of logbook etc...). However, is there a different etiquette when it comes to logging archived Virtuals or Earthcaches? I have done this on occasion, but not wittingly. I had some caches loaded on my phone from earlier in the year and didn't realize that a virtual I found had been archived until after I visited and completed the requirements (caching offline with my phone is pretty common for me). Discovered the cache was archived when I went to log it.

 

I am also aware of other archived virtuals in my area where it would be pretty simply to visit the location and complete the requirements. There was no access reason why the caches were archived, the archival had more to do with the COs losing interest in the hobby. However, it seems to me that it would be kind of suspect to seek these out and post find logs on them now. What would be the point? Padding my find stats? I suppose it would help me work towards some challenges which require finding a bunch of Virtuals. But that feels wrong to me. Ultimately, the reason I like finding archived caches is basically the same as finding active caches, they can bring you to cool spots. Anyone have thoughts on logging archived Virtuals/Earthcaches where there was never any container to begin with?

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On 12/4/2018 at 11:34 AM, GeoElmo6000 said:

What's the official stance of the geocaching game regarding logging an archived non-virtual cache?  The container is still in place, the logbook with the GC code is still inside.  Does it count or not?

 

I've logged one cache that had been archived for several years, that I found when looking for another.  

 

I've also logged one cache that I found by accident that hadn't been published yet.  I was FTF several days before it published.  I logged it on the date that I found it which makes the cache listing look a little funny.  :)

 

I have a list of caches in my town that have been archived. I keep track of which ones have a note stating the CC was removed and which ones were archived for other reasons.

 

I go hunting for the other ones and CITO the old container. Offer it back to the CO (so far 0 have taken me up on it), recycle it into a new CC or trash it if I'm unable to. 

I log the find. Both because 1) it was there and I signed the log (the only real requirements on the GC website for logging a smiley and because it keeps in the tradition of that first ever cache) and 2) Because it lets others know that the cache has actually been removed.

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16 hours ago, colleda said:

I thought the ones that fought the rebs were "dadgum Yankees".😆

Down here US persons were, maybe still are, called "seppos" - don't ask.

 

Rude...   Don't you look up words before you say them here?     Does anybody really wanna go there?

We try to be friendly in these forums, and don't use disrespectful terms for members in another country..

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I strongly recommend that the discussion remain focused on "acceptable" and "frowned upon" practices relating to logging finds on archived caches.  The chosen thread title is unfortunate, as the issue is faced worldwide.  As a result, some of the discussion has been about "this nation vs. that nation" and what people are called.  None of that discussion is on topic.

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1 hour ago, Fugads said:

 

Anyone have thoughts on logging archived Virtuals/Earthcaches where there was never any container to begin with?

 

I've actively searched for and removed over 40 archived caches, always with pictures to prove I found it and I'm not just padding my numbers.  And like others have said, I also justify doing it to remove the abandoned container.  I can't justify a virtual or Earthcache for the same reason, so I won't do them.

 

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I've only come across one archived cache so far; it was in a cave close to where I'd placed the final of a multi. I signed the logbook but didn't claim a find, instead posting a note to say I'd found it ten years after it had been declared missing. It was a treasure-trove of swag from that era and the CO was pleased to get it back, having thought it had been muggled all that time ago. The reason I didn't log a find was because the CO had taken the listing out of play and it didn't seem right to treat it otherwise.

 

I've archived four of my own hides; one had a tree fall on its hiding place but I was still able to retrieve the container, one was washed out to sea in a severe storm, one was in a sea cave and had a part of the roof collapse and bury it, and the last was repeatedly muggled. So far no-one has claimed a find post-archival on any of those, and I suppose if someone went to the trouble of excavating the sea cave one they'd deserve their smiley.

 

As for archived non-physical caches, in many cases they're archived because the CO no longer wants to be dealing with verifying people's answers. Claiming a find under those circumstances would likely annoy the CO if they were still monitoring their emails - they might still be an active cacher with other active hides but just bit off more than they could chew with the EC or virtual. So again I go back to my original gut feeling that when a CO archived a cache they no longer wanted it in the game, and logging a find on it is going against that.

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7 hours ago, Fugads said:

I am also aware of other archived virtuals in my area where it would be pretty simply to visit the location and complete the requirements. There was no access reason why the caches were archived, the archival had more to do with the COs losing interest in the hobby. However, it seems to me that it would be kind of suspect to seek these out and post find logs on them now. What would be the point? Padding my find stats? I suppose it would help me work towards some challenges which require finding a bunch of Virtuals. But that feels wrong to me. Ultimately, the reason I like finding archived caches is basically the same as finding active caches, they can bring you to cool spots. Anyone have thoughts on logging archived Virtuals/Earthcaches where there was never any container to begin with?

 

I am aware of a cacher logging all the Virtuals in the state.  Active or Archived.  Whether the reason is still there.  "Archived because the sign has been destroyed."  "Visiting the site.  Yes.  It is gone.  Logging the find."  Or even worse:  "Archiving the Virtual with no finds, because there is already one here."  "Found it."

Archived Virtuals should be locked!  Reprehensible to log them.

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