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New Maps test


two bison

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I was trying out the new maps. I tried to search for caches in an area and to apply a filter so that I was not shown the caches I've already found. This is useful and easy to do in the old maps ... which work fine for me, by the way. I was not able to do this. The only place I could see to do this was by entering my caching name in the "Not Found By" box. The search still showed caches found by me. 

 

Found that the Feedback is in Release Notes so I'll take my information there.

Edited by two bison
feedback location found
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The new maps are nowhere near as detailed as the current Open Street Map (default), and as such they have, in my opinion,  limited use here in the UK.

For people used to UK Ordnance Survey type maps, the change in Footpaths to yellow lines is confusing, as yellow, and orange, lines represent roads.

The maps do not show bus (transit) stops either.

I attach two screen dumps of the same area to illustrate my point.

 

South_Woodham_Ferrers1.png

South_Woodham_Ferrers_2_NEWMAP.png

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Nor useful info like parking or access=no.  Keep us from trespassing, please.

 

It's been mentioned.

 

Nothing has changed with the style since Day One, in spite of feedback. This leads me to believe they've simply picked a pre-packaged style from some sort of catalog, without the ability to customize.

 

I'm willing to, and would be happy to, be corrected.

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On 11/5/2018 at 4:54 PM, The A-Team said:

Yep, I've made several posts detailing important and critical issues with the style, but nothing has been done. Even critical things like one-way arrows haven't been added.

 

I imagine work is being done but in major increments, not hot fixes, leaving old insufficient content active for the public (which isn't the best idea in concept unless it's providing some benefit).  At worst, no one is working it...

 

tumblr_n0w1yhSBKg1qcgzbvo10_r2_250.gif

 

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On 11/4/2018 at 11:15 PM, Pontiac_CZ said:

The GC maps don't render the store area (in the right-hand top corner).... or a school (south of the stores).... ?

 

Or even the street names at the outer zoom level.  I look at an area and don't see any street names at zoom 15 with the GC map, but if I switch to OSM at the same zoom level then most of the street names appear. So, with the GC map, I have to keep zooming in/out to browse an area to get meaningful location landmarks.  I don't know if zooming in/out requires more from the server than if I just stayed at the same zoom level and panned less, but if does, then having more detail like the OSM layer would reduce server use.

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I was a beta tester for the new maps and I told HQ that there were major issues with the search criteria - particularly events.  I realize that I use my computer for planning my geocaching and not any phone app.  In the old criteria after you got your list, you could sort events by date.  That way you could plan for a future date or even find out what was available today and how far away.  This method doesn't allow you to do that, you have to open each event to determine the date - and show past event dates that haven't been archived.  And they aren't even listed by closest to home. 

 

This may be nice for phone apps, but it is very inconvenient for those of us who use our computers to plan our geocaching activities.

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I had to get used to the new search but when i saw the advantage of it, I constantly used it. For me the advantage was that you could see which cache had a personal note. 

Now with the new change, this has gone again. 

Can you tell me how/where I can see, which caches have a personal note?

The new link to the new opt-out in another topic does not work either.

Thanks for your answer.

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28 minutes ago, joke18 said:

I had to get used to the new search but when i saw the advantage of it, I constantly used it. For me the advantage was that you could see which cache had a personal note. 

Now with the new change, this has gone again. 

Can you tell me how/where I can see, which caches have a personal note?

The new link to the new opt-out in another topic does not work either.

Thanks for your answer.

For me, the opt out link is in the same place: click on "what's this" at the top of the map. Further instructions are provided there.

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I tried the new map and I have to say I do not like it at all.

 

First of all, the map:

The map that is selected as the default looks like the OSM/Leaflet map with the Geocaching view of the old map. However, on the old map I could switch to another view like "Open Street Map Default". My two wishes here are 1. Please allow to remember my choice instead of going back to the "Geocaching" view which is IMHO the worst of all of them. Not enough details, especially for hiking trips (I love to do hiking geocaching trips). My second wish is to be able to use even more map sources. (For example, www.mapy.cz have a great hiking map (called "tourist") with nicely marked hiking trails, I wish I could see geocaches on that map too ...)

 

But instead all of this they do the opposite and remove the good maps leaving the bad, less detailed maps only. It is bad enough that the geocaching app has the limited map choice, now they want to bring the same to the website ? Please do not do this, Geocaching.com !

 

Second: The filter: I found the new filter too simplistic with less choices. I could not figure out how to restrict searching to a specific country. Again, there were things missing in the old filters, for example, when I want to go out with a geocaching friend, I want to set up a filter for caches that neither of us owns nor found. I wish this could be possible. And again, instead of adding filtering options, they are removed.

 

I hope GC does not pay their web developers to make the website  worse and remove useful features.

 

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9 hours ago, MotherHen12 said:

I am getting so frustrated with using the new map with the official Geocaching app. It keeps defaulting to ‘cache direction up’ but I want to set (and keep) north up. I can change it each time but want to set it once and leave it.

Not sure you are referring to the same "new map" that this thread is about.  This thread is about the "new map" on the website.  There is no "new map" in the app.

Regarding the issue you're seeing.  Have you changed the setting in the app Settings menu?   See the middle section of this page:  https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=102&pgid=694

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The new mapping said to come into operation on the 25th April DOES NOT provide the same functionality as now here in the UK

Currently we can display any region in FULL OS map topology just by clicking the Map These Geocaches....... but now we dont get the option of using an OS map at all.

 

Only by selecting an individual cache then use the Enlarge the map optio on that cache page can we see the full OS mapping.

 

WHY? Surely we should be given the same level of options here in the UK as we have become used to..... seems like tinkering for the sake of tinkering....

 

If it 'aint broke dont mend it is the moral

 

Very dissappointed that this is being imposed on us for no good reason...sorry.

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There is current discussion of this in the Release Notes thread:    Pre-Release Notes (Website: Existing Search Map Retirement) - April 15, 2019

 

 

12 hours ago, wendykmj said:

The new mapping said to come into operation on the 25th April DOES NOT provide the same functionality as now here in the UK

Currently we can display any region in FULL OS map topology just by clicking the Map These Geocaches....... but now we dont get the option of using an OS map at all.

The map you're seeing there is the Search map, which has limited map layer options.

 

12 hours ago, wendykmj said:

Only by selecting an individual cache then use the Enlarge the map optio on that cache page can we see the full OS mapping.

The map you're seeing there is the Browse map, which is not going away, but is going to require more steps to get to.

 

image.png.14e3b51abce01e722fb1f86ea7a563b8.png

 

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50 minutes ago, wendykmj said:

I want to use the OS map as the base for my searching.....

I think the map you've pictured is actually coming from the Geocaching Map Enancements (GME) plugin, so technically isn't anything to do with Groundspeak, however because Groundspeak have changed the underlying map GME will nolonger work as it is and you're back to the vanilla flavoured maps. The only way this is likely to be resolved is if the author of GME  updates it to work with the new map layers.

 

FWIW this change currently only applies to the "Search" map, which is the one you get from the search page, or when mapping a list. The Browse map (https://www.geocaching.com/map/) , which currently you get to via the "Play/View Map" menu,  is unchanged and GME (therefore OS maps)  still works on there.

 

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GME makes the Groundspeak mapping actually useful: not just the availability of O.S. maps , altho' they are a brilliant thing to have, but also the proximity circles (handy for cache setting) ability to place pins to track route distance for planning walks, ability to display cache name labels, ability to click a spot and have the co-ords displayed, or click the link and get the geograph pictures for it, or the postcode or the magic map  or ... 

The Groundspeak map without GME is comparatively very poor. Now if the new map added a fraction of the utility that GME does to the current map, I suspect it would be very welcome.

It won't though, will it .

gme.jpg.202ebbc1005152218dc21af8363385af.jpg

Map with GME,and O.S mapping location tool enabled, showing the pop up dialogue after clicking on a random spot. 

 

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11 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

The filter "has corrected coordinates" just plain does not work.

I think there may be more to this. I just tried it and got 0 results, even though I have some caches with corrected coordinates. However, when I corrected the coordinates for another cache to test, that one does now get returned by the filter. Maybe corrected caches from before a certain date aren't being returned?

 

If the devs are interested in a test case, GCA1C4 has corrected coordinates from me (set a while ago) and doesn't get returned by the filter, but GC84JWY has corrected coordinates from a few minutes ago and does get returned.

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1 hour ago, The A-Team said:

I think there may be more to this. I just tried it and got 0 results, even though I have some caches with corrected coordinates. However, when I corrected the coordinates for another cache to test, that one does now get returned by the filter. Maybe corrected caches from before a certain date aren't being returned?

 

If the devs are interested in a test case, GCA1C4 has corrected coordinates from me (set a while ago) and doesn't get returned by the filter, but GC84JWY has corrected coordinates from a few minutes ago and does get returned.

 

GCA1C4 has been archived, even though it's still getting finds, so that's why it doesn't appear in the new search map results.

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43 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

GCA1C4 has been archived, even though it's still getting finds, so that's why it doesn't appear in the new search map results.

D'oh! Of course.

 

In that case, I guess I don't have a test-case for a cache that already had corrected coordinates. I rarely use that feature on the site, keeping them offline in GSAK instead. Anyway, if I set corrected coordinates on a cache now, it does get returned by the filter.

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I did a simple test.  I searched Portland, OR, where I have recently solved a lot of puzzles and have several caches with corrected coords that show up on the map.  I clicked on the filter and turned off everything but puzzles.  Then I clicked on "Has Corrected Coordinates" and ALL the puzzle caches still showed up.  That was with Firefox yesterday.  Today I did the same thing with Chrome and it worked properly, so who knows?

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5 hours ago, bajjab said:

If I klick on the crosshair-symbol, the browser ask me to allow giving my location. If i deny, the map still searches for my location and don't show any caches anymore. It didn't stop searching for the location.

 

This is a confusion on the desktop version of the website. I went into in detail in another thread, but when it asks if you want to give it your location, that's the browser asking, not the website.  Groundspeak needs to do something about that button desktop users. Attempting to get a location by IP address is 100% unreliable (that is, it may be near accurate for a portion of users but for most it will not).  If location is not granted, or it's a desktop site, that button should either not be available, or jump to the user's Home location (maybe show the house icon instead in that case).

 

This has been an issue around for a while, and another example of what appears to be a seeming lack of concern for desktop users in much of the website design. I really hope it is addressed soon.

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Wow, what a horrible shock when I started planning my weekend trip this morning.  I use maps for everything, and this version is terrible.  Just a few points:

 

Why can't I show as many caches as fit on the screen area I'm showing?

What do I have to do to get my finds off the map?

I like to use the maps to show me where the county lines are.  I might be missing them, but they don't seem to be on this version.

Corrected coordinates just don't work right.

Plus many more that I'm sure I haven't discovered yet.

 

You've made a lot of changes to the maps over the years, and every time you change them they seem to get less useful.  It used to be so easy to set up my cache runs.  It's turned into hours and this time it might just be too much for me to continue.  PLEASE let us use the old maps if we want to!!!!

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Might I suggest, Groundspeak seriously consider a MUCH more transparent and prominent public announcement for rollouts with a scope like this, even to the point of producing a professional tutorial video that's sent to all users.  It has to be recognized by now that there are plenty of users who don't follow social media, let alone the forums or the blog, who've opted out of newsletters, and I don't recall seeing anything in any newsletter about the search map change (if there it was blended in with other content, most of which I and certainly others tend to skim more than absorb in full).  The only way to reach as many people as possible is through every account's primary communication method - email - whether or not someone is signed up for a newsletter. This kind of change isn't side information, this is core detail about the website and its features.

 

Also, a good video tutorial can be easily disseminated to people quickly and easily without someone having to constantly type up an explanatory response, and it's much more engaging - using real people, not text.  I think that strategy will greatly help smooth over such changes for everyone who have absolutely no idea what's happening, not seeing any warning that a change was coming, who don't read threads before posting angrily, and who continue to misunderstand the changes unaware of how much has changed and why, mainly because of the lack of clarity and scarcity of explanations.

 

A rollout will never be perfect. But man, every time, there are people complaining who could easily have been more informed... (even if they still didn't like the change; there will always be people who don't like any change)

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I don't have a problem with change.  But, when change is made it should be to enhance the feature (such as maps).  To me, the maps are the heart and soul of the entire game.  Groundspeak doesn't seem to have ever recognized that, and every change they have made has decreased the functionality of the feature.  Most of the time it has been subtle, but it is there if you use maps enough.  This time it is over the top.  I don't know about others, but for me this is going to make planning a trip extremely difficult, to the point where it just may not be worth it anymore.  It is very easy to see where planning a trip is going to take longer than it will take to actually take the trip.

 

For example, I've been working on a trip around Ohio going after counties.  The task of planning that is very easy with the old maps, but next to impossible with these new ones.  The limited number of caches that can be shown on the new maps is a real hinderance to planning routes.  The fact that I can't seem to get rid of the icons of caches I have found only results in cluttering up the map.   It is a giant step backward for those of us who make extensive use of this feature.

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5 minutes ago, searcherdog said:
23 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

I don't recall seeing anything in any newsletter about the search map change

I received an email     Take your geocaching into the future    dated mid evening 230419 and the change is the last line before the piccies at the bottom.

Ah, yes, I see it.  So I was right - " (if there it was blended in with other content, most of which I and certainly others tend to skim more than absorb in full) "

Definitely not prominent, very easy to miss.

 

1 minute ago, bd's said:

I don't have a problem with change.  But, when change is made it should be to enhance the feature (such as maps).  To me, the maps are the heart and soul of the entire game.

 

The only change was where mapping links go. The Search Map is a new addition, is an improvement, is an enhancement. It's also fundamentally different in function than the browse map. The Browse Map still exists, is still usable, is still highly favoured.  It's better to properly frame criticism than jump to extremes.  Use the browse map as you always have, it's still there.

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On 11/29/2018 at 2:56 AM, joke18 said:

I had to get used to the new search but when i saw the advantage of it, I constantly used it. For me the advantage was that you could see which cache had a personal note. 

Now with the new change, this has gone again. 

Can you tell me how/where I can see, which caches have a personal note?

The new link to the new opt-out in another topic does not work either.

Thanks for your answer.

 

This, all by itself, was why I stubbornly refused to use the new maps; I use cache notes to (among other things) indicate challenge caches that I have signed, but not yet qualified and found. Removing the ability to filter by personal note is a huge step backwards and is a serious blow to how I use filtered search to plan my geo trips (which is, almost always, Not Found - Has Corrected Coordinates - No Personal Cache Note). But it looks like they have removed this very useful feature from filtered searching.

Edited by The Snowdog
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2 minutes ago, The Snowdog said:
1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

The Search Map is a new addition, is an improvement, is an enhancement.

 

It's not an improvement when you remove critical search features like filter by personal geocache note, which I use (well, used) extensively. 

 

Did the Search Map ever have that option?  IRC the advanced search did. Did they remove it? If so, then that's a different issue than the implementation of the search map.  I would classify that as a downgrading of the advanced searching altogether, because you can't even get the results as a list any more. I don't recall the Browse map ever having that option.

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10 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

 

Did the Search Map ever have that option?  IRC the advanced search did. Did they remove it? If so, then that's a different issue than the implementation of the search map.  I would classify that as a downgrading of the advanced searching altogether, because you can't even get the results as a list any more. I don't recall the Browse map ever having that option.

 

No, it is not a different issue.  At one time, you could filter by personal cache note - as long as you were using the old maps. If you opted in to the new map, that option was lost. Now that the new map is required, the option to filter by personal cache note is gone. Don't try to argue that loss of a valuable and useful search option has nothing to do with the new and "improved" map.

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>Did the Search Map ever have that option?  IRC the advanced search did. Did they remove it? 

The option was somewhere. I seem to remember this was discussed around January.

I bookmarked all my personal note and corrected co-ordinate caches at the beginning of this week although I can't remember precisely how/where but it was a "select the option" type box. Now the option is gone.

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51 minutes ago, The Snowdog said:

Don't try to argue that loss of a valuable and useful search option has nothing to do with the new and "improved" map.

I did not argue that. I argued that it didn't have to do with this update - the changing of the links to the new map. The removal of a filter option that goes beyond the search map is different than this issue.

 

52 minutes ago, The Snowdog said:

At one time, you could filter by personal cache note - as long as you were using the old maps.

Again, this is a point of confusion we're trying to clarify.  Which "old" maps? The Browse map? Which still exists and hasn't changed?  The old searhc map which used the Browse map but plotted search results from lists and pqs? If you're referring to the current Search map, which prior to this week's update you could opt out of, then as I said above, I recall somewhere there being a filter option for "Has personal cache note" - but that was a general search option, not something specific to the current Search map

 

So, at some point, this search filter option was removed. From the Advanced Search options. And reflected in the new map. It's not specific to the new map. That is what I'm trying to get to the heart of.  And I fully agree that it is a valuable and useful search option and should be returned - to the search options as a whole.

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36 minutes ago, searcherdog said:

The option was somewhere. I seem to remember this was discussed around January.

I bookmarked all my personal note and corrected co-ordinate caches at the beginning of this week although I can't remember precisely how/where but it was a "select the option" type box. Now the option is gone.

Yeah I do remember it in the Advanced Search option but couldn't remember if it was an option in the map sidebar.  It's no longer in the search list filters either... No idea why this was removed; oversight perhaps? Groundspeak should absolutely return that filter option!

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2 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

So, at some point, this search filter option was removed. From the Advanced Search options. And reflected in the new map. It's not specific to the new map. That is what I'm trying to get to the heart of.  And I fully agree that it is a valuable and useful search option and should be returned - to the search options as a whole.

 

Let me try again. Until yesterday, search allowed you to filter on Has Personal Cache Note - if and only if you had not opted in to the new map. It only appears as a search option if you stuck with the old maps. So even though (as you have said) it's not an option on the map itself (new or old), it is intrinsically tied to the type of map you are set to use. This was easy to demonstrate - opt in to the new maps, go to the search dialog, and the option to search by cache note did not appear. Opt back out and return to the old maps, and search by cache note returns to the search dialog. I started a thread about that very issue a few months ago, complete with screen shots. So contrary to your opinion stated above, there is no doubt that the option to search by personal cache note depends on the type of map you are set to use. And now that we all have automatically opted in to the new map, the option to filter on Personal Cache Note is gone.

Edited by The Snowdog
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Ok, so there's a couple things at play here I think. You've been forced up basically two steps since you opted out of the new Search map. Not only was the opt-in removed because the new map was made permanent, but existing map links were also updated to the new Search map yesterday. That's understandably a lot to swallow.

 

I'm interested to know when the "Has Personal Notes" option disappeared from the Advanced Search filters (not the map filters); I don't recall the last time I saw it, but I do remember it being there. So I can certainly understand the frustration with its removal. If it was removed a while ago, then I'd be really surprised if that concern wasn't raised earlier in a thread about the new map functionality (and there's a lot of feedback).  If it was removed solely with yesterday's update, then that doesn't make sense to me; a dumb move. Or it was an oversight.  It should be reimplemented.

 

Now, if you're complaining that the new Search Map is overall worse because it no longer has the "Has Personal Note" search filter (though I'm assuming there are other factors in your argument than merely that one missing option), then I'd slightly disagree - but differing opinions is okay! - imo, the new Search Map has many other additional benefits. But I don't think anyone thinks it's overall better -- But to say it's overall worse, I think, is pretty over the top.  I do hope it gets fixed so that you can reasonably use it again.

 

Does anyone know when that Personal Notes filter option disappeared from the Advanced Search, and if it was raised and requested to be returned before yesterday's change?  It may have disappeared when they recently updated that search filter form layout... when was that?

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14 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Does anyone know when that Personal Notes filter option disappeared from the Advanced Search, and if it was raised and requested to be returned before yesterday's change?  It may have disappeared when they recently updated that search filter form layout... when was that?

 

Why, yes. Yes, I do. If you were still opted in to the old maps, the option to filter by Personal Cache Note was still there yesterday.

 

Please read my previous post again. I have explained as best I can that the option to filter by Personal Cache Note has been tied to the type of map you opted to use for several months. I don't know when in the new map roll out this "misfeature" appeared but I noticed it the first time I tried the new map, several months ago. If you had opted in to the new maps, you lost that option in Advanced Search. If you went back to the old maps, the option re-appeared in Advanced Search. Since you no longer have the option to use the old maps, you no longer see filter on personal cache note in the search dialog.

Edited by The Snowdog
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Does anyone know when that Personal Notes filter option disappeared from the Advanced Search, and if it was raised and requested to be returned before yesterday's change?  It may have disappeared when they recently updated that search filter form layout... when was that?

 

I've found a post by ratjam 22nd Jan under Release Notes (Website: new Search/Map) - January 17, 2019 when the filter was missing.

From memory, there was another post soon after when it came back.

I've used it this week but can't remember which screen although it wasn't the new search map which I don't use.

I'm still looking for the other post.

 

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17 minutes ago, The Snowdog said:

Why, yes. Yes, I do. If you were still opted in to the old maps, the option to filter by Personal Cache Note was still there yesterday.

 

Please read my previous post again. I have explained as best I can that the option to filter by Personal Cache Note has been tied to the type of map you opted to use for several months. I don't know when in the new map roll out this "misfeature" appeared but I noticed it the first time I tried the new map, several months ago. If you had opted in to the new maps, you lost that option in Advanced Search. If you went back to the old maps, the option re-appeared in Advanced Search. Since you no longer have the option to use the old maps, you no longer see filter on personal cache note in the search dialog. 

 

Yes, for you it disappeared yesterday. I'm interested in knowing when it first disappeared from use, in the new map you chose to opt out of, and from the Advanced Search filters obviously tied to the those maps you chose to opt out of.

 

This new layout was implemented recently, and not specifically along with the link updates to the new Search map:

 

image.thumb.png.fc775a37ae5f5fb0bca33e65b0cc4ee8.png

 

I'm wondering about the form prior to this layout, if it had "Has Personal Notes", or if it was removed earlier than that. That is not a question I'd expect you to be able to answer since you opted out of the new Search map long ago and still had that filter until the new map was rolled out for everyone.

 

I'm leaning towards it being an oversight, either which was ignored, or mistakenly missed.

In any case, once again, it would be great to have it back. And I don't use the feature, but I see the value in it (and can't see why it would have specifically been removed without any word).

 

ETA: Found the post I believe I was thinking of:

This seems to imply the change was implemented - for people who had opted out of the new Search map - at the beginning of April.

 

And barefootjeff mentioned the missing filter after the HQ confirmation of the form update. And there hasn't been a response to it (or the other comments about the changes)

Edited by thebruce0
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25 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Does anyone know when that Personal Notes filter option disappeared from the Advanced Search, and if it was raised and requested to be returned before yesterday's change?  It may have disappeared when they recently updated that search filter form layout... when was that?

 

Got it. Barefootjeff noted it was missing on 2nd April and Monsterbox noted it was fixed by the next day. Same Release notes thread Jan 17th. Also screen capture of the relevant screen on Barefootjeff's post.

 

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