Are water and ice the same thing?

[+Team Microdot]

Are water and ice the same thing?

 

My view is categorically NO.

 

Our local Geoaware though seems to think differently - so maybe I'm wrong?

[+STNolan]

Are water and Ice the same thing?

Chemically speaking... yes. So long as you're only talking about basic chemistry. Water and Ice are both combined of 2 Hydrogen atoms and 1 Oxygen atom.

However once you start looking at more advanced chemistry (P-Chem) you start to learn about how the orientation of the molecular bonds is critically important and as a molecule changes physical states, the bonds themselves (both internally to the molecule and externally between molecules) alter their nature.

 

Saying ice and water are the same thing is like saying Country Music and Rap are the same thing. Are they both composed of musical notes? Yes. But it's the orientation of the musical notes that makes a difference.

[+Team Microdot]

Not only that.

 

With the exception of serious flash flood / tsunami conditions, the size of sediments that ice can carry far outweighs that which can be carried by water - for example.

 

Does water ever leave behind a morraine? I think not.

 

[+STNolan]

I would argue that even further, the erosion created by ice is tenfold more devastating than that created by running water.

 

Running water is a slow smoothing process. 

 

A glacier is akin to using a rough grit sandpaper on rock. 

[+Team Microdot]

1 minute ago, STNolan said:

I would argue that even further, the erosion created by ice is tenfold more devastating than that created by running water.

 

Running water is a slow smoothing process. 

 

A glacier is akin to using a rough grit sandpaper on rock. 

 

Well, apart from quantity, the way in which water and ice erode are also different.

 

In fact it occurs to me that if water and ice were the same thing - freeze-thaw action wouldn't exist!

 

[+STNolan]

What type of EC are you working on then?

[+Team Microdot]

3 minutes ago, STNolan said:

What type of EC are you working on then?

 

Always working on more than one - there's so much stuff out there to show people ?

 

The one which gave rise to this question has been published but it's been suggested that I amend it to make it 'more correct', which is obviously contrary to my own viewpoint that ice and water are very different things.

 

I have another one in the pipeline which I think has been sent back three times so far but I think I've made all the required changes now so fingers crossed that one will go live in the next few days.

 

And then I have two more to work on - one should be fairly straight forward but I'm expect to have to run the gauntlet on the other one.

[+STNolan]

I'm working on two right now. One on Isostatic Rebound and another on Fjord Formation.

[+Team Microdot]

1 minute ago, STNolan said:

I'm working on two right now. One on Isostatic Rebound and another on Fjord Formation.

 

Ooh!

 

Can't wait to see how you've corralled Isostatic Rebound into a manageable EC!

 

Don't think I'd dare attempt something like that - I expect the repeated re-writes would be horrendous ?

[+STNolan]

Just now, Team Microdot said:

 

Ooh!

 

Can't wait to see how you've corralled Isostatic Rebound into a manageable EC!

 

Don't think I'd dare attempt something like that - I expect the repeated re-writes would be horrendous ?

 

I've done some research; there have been a few others published around the world. But I'm lucky that in my region they did a 50 year + study and calculated the current rebound rate... which when combined with an estimated elevation change from sea level lets you do some pretty neat maths. 

 

Gotta see if I can get my reviewer to bite off on it though. We'll see how that works. 

[+Team Microdot]

Just now, STNolan said:

Gotta see if I can get my reviewer to bite off on it though. We'll see how that works. 

 

Good luck ?

[+STNolan]

Same to you! Just read your EC on the Sandstone Buildings. 
 

Also I read through a couple of your older ones... I might have to borrow some info from the Glacial Striations/Chatter ones as we have a great area near our town glacier where the bedrock is fully exposed and covered in striations. 

[+Team Microdot]

Just now, STNolan said:

Same to you! Just read your EC on the Sandstone Buildings. 
 

Also I read through a couple of your older ones... I might have to borrow some info from the Glacial Striations/Chatter ones as we have a great area near our town glacier where the bedrock is fully exposed and covered in striations. 

 

You're welcome to whatever you want - help yourself.

 

Just remember though that those are archived because I got them completely wrong in that the marks were not what I thought they were.

 

Embarrasingly, I was just starting out in setting my own EC's - coming from someone who shied away from even 'finding' those set by others because of a lack of confidence.

 

Got over-excited and too unscientific in my approach and made a hash of it.

 

I am very careful not to make the same mistakes again though - and I'm in touch with a good few people who are far more educated than I ?

[+STNolan]

Just now, Team Microdot said:

 

You're welcome to whatever you want - help yourself.

 

Just remember though that those are archived because I got them completely wrong in that the marks were not what I thought they were.

 

Embarrasingly, I was just starting out in setting my own EC's - coming from someone who shied away from even 'finding' those set by others because of a lack of confidence.

 

Got over-excited and too unscientific in my approach and made a hash of it.

 

I am very careful not to make the same mistakes again though - and I'm in touch with a good few people who are far more educated than I ?

 

Yeah I read the logs immediately prior to archiving and they were... harsh to say the least. Seems like a majority of that conversation could have been  held in private rather than in the log. Be that as it may, the geology was sound, even if the application may have been misguided. 

 

Our glacier is still visible about 1/2 mile from the location I'm thinking of so it should be good to go.

 

That being said... guess I'm working on three ECs now...

[+STNolan]

2 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

You're welcome to whatever you want - help yourself.

 

Also I appreciate the sentiment, but I prefer to double check with people before I go borrowing what they worked so hard to produce. 

[+Team Microdot]

I've just looked again at the one I still have in the queue.

 

So far I've had to re-submit it seven times.

[+STNolan]

3 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

I've just looked again at the one I still have in the queue.

 

So far I've had to re-submit it seven times.

 

Well now I feel bad that I was bragging about my last set getting through without any edits.

That being said, my record is waiting more than 7 months to get an EC published after initial submission... though that may be due more to the Geoaware's taking a significant time to review/decide if it was an acceptable lesson and less to having to make multiple edits. 

[+Team Microdot]

2 minutes ago, STNolan said:

though that may be due more to the Geoaware's taking a significant time to review/decide if it was an acceptable lesson and less to having to make multiple edits. 

 

What I've learned is that 'geologists' disagree so often that it's difficult to know which side to come down on sometimes.

 

Good example being the news just the other day about the core of the Earth actually being molten rather than solid - is that accepted science now or not?

[+STNolan]

Just now, Team Microdot said:

 

What I've learned is that 'geologists' disagree so often that it's difficult to know which side to come down on sometimes.

 

Good example being the news just the other day about the core of the Earth actually being molten rather than solid - is that accepted science now or not?

 

I suppose in that case so long as you can cite your sources...

 

That being said you can find a source to back almost any stance... even the cockamamie ones.