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medoug

Padding word count for statistical challenges.

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I received a log on one of my geocaches that included the following text (abbreviated and redacted to provide anonymity) :
 

Quote

"Enjoying the weekend at the XXX XXXX X XXXX!
Returning home from XXXXX XXXXXX, grabbing a few smilies along the way.

Thanks for sharing your cache.

I will apologize right now, because everything from here on is here solely for the purpose of padding the word count. It seems that there are caching statistical challenges that look at the word count in your logs."


.....another 234 words blabbering on about how they were introduced to geocaching........

"Thanks to everyone out there who have made this adventure so enjoyable!! Again, if you read this far, sorry for the blabbering!"

 

 

Do such word-count statistical challenges really exists?  Is the blabbering on in a cache log to pad the word count for such purpose common practice by some geocachers?  Obviously, all the extra text was all cut and paste so it seems that one can easily cheat on such challenges.

 

Thanks,

medoug.

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We know of a few who tell about the day, the friends they're caching with, the dogs ... 

 - Pretty-much everything cut n paste for each cache, then maybe leave a sentence or two about the cache, like it was an afterthought.   

We've had a couple explain why, with all saying it's for log-length stats.

Never seen one honest about it like that on the cache page though.  :)

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That explains a lot. I've jumped back into catching after not being as active for a couple of years, and newly noticed these huge logs that don't really talk about the cache itself at all. I didn't realize there are log length challenges. There are challenges for every hecking thing now. 🙄

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I have the diamond badge for log lenght but i find this way to have it absurd. This badge is here to promote sharing our experiences, to express our gratefulness to the owners, to reflect your way of geocaching... not to fill log with foolish words 😕 Statistics without spirit...

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I'm pretty sure that challenges based on log length are nolonger allowed, but  there are badges on badgegen and ProjectGC based on log length. To be honest, anyone who is trying to artificially inflate their log length stats to get some badge on another site really needs to get out more. I've seen cachers who write "thank you for placing this cache" in MANY different languages, some who border their logs with rows of :rolleyes: or similar (each one is another 3 characters).

 

If I'm out doing a lot of caches in a day I will often have a boilerplate "I was here for..., the weather was..., I found ?? caches and DNFd ?  and I walked ??km today" plus a bit about the individual find. If anyone thinks I'm doing that to inflate my log count then they're wrong and I don't really care what they think anyway :P

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16 hours ago, nericksx said:

That explains a lot. I've jumped back into catching after not being as active for a couple of years, and newly noticed these huge logs that don't really talk about the cache itself at all. I didn't realize there are log length challenges. There are challenges for every hecking thing now. 🙄

I don't necessarily talk about the cache, but I might talk about my day or the way to the cache or something I found interesting about the area (especially if it involves social housing in any way...). But I never cut and paste and I'm not padding my logs deliberately.

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46 minutes ago, Blue Square Thing said:

I don't necessarily talk about the cache, but I might talk about my day or the way to the cache or something I found interesting about the area

 

Same here.  Never to pad my log out for a challenge or a badge, but it's possible someone might think I was.  Unfortunate.

 

I have seen the same as the OP though.  But I just laugh at how lame that is and move on.

 

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44 minutes ago, Blue Square Thing said:
17 hours ago, nericksx said:

That explains a lot. I've jumped back into catching after not being as active for a couple of years, and newly noticed these huge logs that don't really talk about the cache itself at all. I didn't realize there are log length challenges. There are challenges for every hecking thing now. 🙄

I don't necessarily talk about the cache, but I might talk about my day or the way to the cache or something I found interesting about the area (especially if it involves social housing in any way...). But I never cut and paste and I'm not padding my logs deliberately.

 

The same here. On the more memorable caches, the ones where my logs run close to or over the length limit, it's mostly the story of my adventure on the way to GZ and back, with the cache itself barely rating a mention if it's just a standard box, and if it's something special that's meant as a surprise for the finder, I won't say anything at all about it that might spoil the surprise. My logs do relate specifically to my journey to that cache, and if several caches were found on the trip, I'll split the narrative between caches rather than just repeat everything. The only time I've done any cutting and pasting was for a series of geoart caches associated with the recent mega here, and even then I tried to add a sentence or two specific to each cache if I could.

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7 hours ago, Blue Square Thing said:

I don't necessarily talk about the cache, but I might talk about my day or the way to the cache or something I found interesting about the area (especially if it involves social housing in any way...). But I never cut and paste and I'm not padding my logs deliberately.

 

Yeah, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that one should talk about the cache specifically ("well, it was green, made out of metal, kinda rusted..." LOL 😂) I meant people weren't keeping their log entries to talking about the experience of that cache. The day or the weather, or getting to GZ or what have you. I agree that a bit of detail about what brought you out that day, what you found interesting about the area, experiences you had getting there - totally relevant. It was the folks going on about their vacation - not even the caching part of the vacation - that made me :blink:

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On 10/27/2018 at 8:49 PM, medoug said:

I received a log on one of my geocaches that included the following text (abbreviated and redacted to provide anonymity) :
 

 

 

Do such word-count statistical challenges really exists?  Is the blabbering on in a cache log to pad the word count for such purpose common practice by some geocachers?  Obviously, all the extra text was all cut and paste so it seems that one can easily cheat on such challenges.

 

Thanks,

medoug.

That's the same log I talked about in another thread!

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I'm not sure about Challenge Caches, but certain stats macros and sites will note your average words per log

 

There are lots of good reasons to add text to a log that doesn't benefit most other seekers. It may record some statistical info or may be some related story or artistic inspiration. 

 

But if you are including extra text in your log simply to pad out the word count to game the system for some stats I think that is pathetic. 

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On 10/29/2018 at 7:47 AM, nericksx said:

 

Yeah, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that one should talk about the cache specifically ("well, it was green, made out of metal, kinda rusted..." LOL 😂) I meant people weren't keeping their log entries to talking about the experience of that cache. The day or the weather, or getting to GZ or what have you. I agree that a bit of detail about what brought you out that day, what you found interesting about the area, experiences you had getting there - totally relevant. It was the folks going on about their vacation - not even the caching part of the vacation - that made me :blink:

 

Perhaps I've in the minority but I often talk about the cache, especially when I find a clean, dry container with lots of room in the log sheet.  I may simply mention that the cache in good shape because that provides a real time notification to the owner of the state of the cache.  I would also talk about the cache if it's in poor shape and mention a very wet log or broken container as that is also useful information for a cache owner, more so than writing that it was 72 degrees, with clear skies and a light wind.  Unless the weather was significantly bad or an exceptionally warm day in winter, I can't see the CO or other log readers caring about the weather when I found the cache.

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While I hope that my logs are interesting to a cache owner, barring the times when I just can't think of much to say about a particular cache, I tend to look at my logs as my record of my caching and are ultimately for me.  As such I will often talk about a lot more than just the cache itself and the search thereof.  If particularly memorable then it might be the whole adventure that took me to that cache - some good examples here and there.  I've had a few that have gone past the length of 1 log and I had to write a note to include the rest of the story.  Never to pad the log for any stats though.

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I've seen logs like that before.  I think it's lame, but it just goes to show that everyone plays the game differently.

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1 hour ago, jenny08_1015 said:

I've seen logs like that before.  I think it's lame, but it just goes to show that everyone plays the game differently.

 

I agree that it's lame. There's little effort involved (cut and paste mostly), irritating to others, no advantage to the community, and not in the spirit of the pastime. It benefits only the person doing the padding (advancement on a leadership board). It could irritate many cache owners. It could irritate future finders looking for some real information about the cache experience.

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Ridiculous.  I’d be tempted to delete the log and ask them nicely to re-log ‘properly’.

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Excessive logs make it hard on those who still use a GPSr, especially one like the 64s or Etrex where you have having to hit the page down button like 20 times just to see the next log.  Yea, it's a "badge" that can be earned on 3rd party sites like project-gc (they are an official partner of GS so I feel they can be mentioned) and that's why it is done. 

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17 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

Ridiculous.  I’d be tempted to delete the log and ask them nicely to re-log ‘properly’.

Except all they'd have to do is appeal to GS to have their legitimate log reinstated.

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Who cares? This is supposed to be fun and not a competition. When I started playing I loved the game because of the intrinsic rewards. I have lost my enthusiasm for the "game" because the rules have multiplied due to demands of new players. Who cares?

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56 minutes ago, BillyGee said:

Could be worse:
https://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=dd1f9d46-d9b9-4989-81b3-a66b3376c714

 

Notice:

------- random wiki text :)

 

I guess this smart a** is aiming at lowering down his log similarity score on Project-GC.

 

I've seen a lot of logs with "padding", but this example is really pushing the limit. I think if I got something like this on one of my caches, I'd really delete it and ask the cacher to re-log it with out the bogus text. Of course I know that they can complain at GS to have their log reinstated, but it I'd give it a try anyway just for the fun of it ;) .

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4 minutes ago, baer2006 said:

I've seen a lot of logs with "padding", but this example is really pushing the limit. I think if I got something like this on one of my caches, I'd really delete it and ask the cacher to re-log it with out the bogus text. Of course I know that they can complain at GS to have their log reinstated, but it I'd give it a try anyway just for the fun of it ;) .

 

Same here.

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If that's what folks choose to do why stop them. Even if I think it's dumb. Does not hurt me and I assume it makes them happy.

 

Some people think going after challenges is dumb. I like most of them. Probably skip this one though.

 

I wish the world would stop trying to force their personal codes or agendas or beliefs on everyone else. Specially if it does not hurt anyone. Acceptance is a better policy IMHO.

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Well, there´s this badge thing @ project-gc. And I kind of like to get some of these worthless, virtual badges in diamond. To get a diamond "the autor" badge, one must have an average of 100 or more words in every found log.

The day I´ve decided that I want to have this badge in diamon, I´ve decided to never log a cache with less than 100 words. And thats what I do. So my average is rising slowly but steady and I came pretty close now.

Of course it can be easily achived by simply using a long, boring, cache unrelated auto signature. And I hate to see, that quite some people doing it. I for my self just take the time an write some more for each cache, or a certain streak. For example when I find some caches in one day, I´ll write one log, telleing a little bit about each and every single cache I´ve found. Posting it for all found caches of this day. That´s how I feel comfortable with. And and I feel, that I´m respecting the owners efforts much more my way, than I would by using a non sence copy/paste random bulls*** just to satify any statistics.

Edited by DerDiedler

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18 hours ago, MNTA said:

I wish the world would stop trying to force their personal codes or agendas or beliefs on everyone else.

 

Like making it easier to see where puzzle caches are hidden? 😉

 

18 hours ago, MNTA said:

Specially if it does not hurt anyone. Acceptance is a better policy IMHO.

 

Hurt is too strong, but have you ever tried scrolling through recent logs on a GPSr?

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18 hours ago, MNTA said:

Specially if it does not hurt anyone. Acceptance is a better policy IMHO.

Yes, well....

Read this thread to acquire an idea of how many people are not hurt, but at least irked by this copy/ paste "missconduct".

So, what would be more appreciated in the world of GC?? Acceptance to copy/paste logs? Or knowing that copy/paste logs are imploite and expact others to accept that? 

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10 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

 

Like making it easier to see where puzzle caches are hidden? 😉

 

 

Hurt is too strong, but have you ever tried scrolling through recent logs on a GPSr?

 

 

Um no please read the details. I say that the process for hiding caches needs to be improved. A different solution is all I am championing. The trolls out there just like to shout down anything that goes against the status quo and focus on the wrong thing. Focusing instead that puzzle solutions should be exposed. 

 

Software is an amazing thing. If you can think of the algorithms you want you can implement almost anything.

 

So to answer your question on scrolling padded logs. How about GS implement a feature to display the first say 100 characters per log, or you pick a number in your settings. Then a button can be pushed to show the whole log kind of like what it does with pictures. Now this is not the only way to solve this challenge of scrolling through padded logs. I'm sure other mechanisms would work equally as well.  Everyone wins. The same can be said with other aspects of the game.   

 

BTW I DNFed a cache today and tried to scroll through the logs but because I was offline I only got the last four due to long log length I suppose. Maybe if I could have read more I might have found it. Who knows, the outcome in this case I now have a blue frowny face. No biggie.

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This thread is about "padding word counts" in cache logs.  Please remain on topic.

Did you know that I became a forum moderator in 2003 when volunteer moderators were added to the Forums?  This is my fifteenth consecutive year of moderating.  This post is one of 2,314 posts I've made in order to remind participants to remain on topic.  Other fun things that moderators do to contribute to the forum community include moving threads to the proper forum, hiding or editing posts that violate the forum guidelines, stopping spammers, and answering questions about geocaching.  Moderators are equipped with kevlar flak jackets and a generous supply of admin bricks.  Many moderators are dogs.  Being a moderator is fun!  Thanks for the posts.

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On 11/3/2018 at 3:27 PM, BillyGee said:

Could be worse:
https://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=dd1f9d46-d9b9-4989-81b3-a66b3376c714

 

Notice:

------- random wiki text :)

 

I guess this smart a** is aiming at lowering down his log similarity score on Project-GC.

 

That log was pretty good before the random wiki text.

 

 

On 11/4/2018 at 10:42 PM, MNTA said:

So to answer your question on scrolling padded logs. How about GS implement a feature to display the first say 100 characters per log, or you pick a number in your settings. Then a button can be pushed to show the whole log kind of like what it does with pictures. Now this is not the only way to solve this challenge of scrolling through padded logs. I'm sure other mechanisms would work equally as well.  Everyone wins. The same can be said with other aspects of the game.   

That bolded portion doesn't work with a GPSr, which is what IceColdUK asked about.  GS can't do anything to change that.  It would be up to the GPS manufacturers to do that.  An unlikely thing to happen.

 

 

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On 11/5/2018 at 7:01 AM, Keystone said:

This thread is about "padding word counts" in cache logs.  Please remain on topic.

Did you know that I became a forum moderator in 2003 when volunteer moderators were added to the Forums?  This is my fifteenth consecutive year of moderating.  This post is one of 2,314 posts I've made in order to remind participants to remain on topic.  Other fun things that moderators do to contribute to the forum community include moving threads to the proper forum, hiding or editing posts that violate the forum guidelines, stopping spammers, and answering questions about geocaching.  Moderators are equipped with kevlar flak jackets and a generous supply of admin bricks.  Many moderators are dogs.  Being a moderator is fun!  Thanks for the posts.

 

Now, copy and paste that to several other forum topics to add to the number (and size) of your posts to keep in the spirit of things.   :)

 

Edited by medoug

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