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TeamRabbitRun

Geocache of the Week - Exactly WRONG!

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Based on past Geocaches of the Week, they don't care about that kind of thing. All that matters is that the cache is clever. Even if the cache violates guidelines or demonstrates ill-advised tactics, I guess we're just supposed to ignore those aspects and focus on how "cool" the cache is.

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The cache was hidden with express permission from the local municipality and from the province. And, the cache owner informed all the nearby business owners about the cache. And, it looks like a locker to me, not active utility equipment.

 

Permission makes up for a LOT of issues.  Many gadget caches or other out of the ordinary caches wouldn't be published without clear evidence of permission.  Get that permission, detail it for your reviewer, and things go a lot smoother!

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1 hour ago, Keystone said:

The cache was hidden with express permission from the local municipality and from the province. And, the cache owner informed all the nearby business owners about the cache. And, it looks like a locker to me, not active utility equipment.

 

Permission makes up for a LOT of issues.  Many gadget caches or other out of the ordinary caches wouldn't be published without clear evidence of permission.  Get that permission, detail it for your reviewer, and things go a lot smoother!

The issue discussed is not about permission at all.

 

Only with what we see with the picture provided when it's closed it really look for me a grey utility boxes.

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1 hour ago, Lynx Humble said:

The issue discussed is not about permission at all.

 

Only with what we see with the picture provided when it's closed it really look for me a grey utility boxes.

 

'Strue - not about 'permission'.

 

'Permission' is granted by people who don't know about the concerns of responsible cache placement; they usually have other concerns, if any.

 

Well, if a reviewer approves the cache, then .... great! It's in the game.

 

But, My point was about GS holding it up as a sterling example to be admired, and potentially replicated. These 'Geocaches' of the Week" have the potential to be 'teaching moments' coming from HQ, and not just "LOOK...SHINY!"

 

As has been said many times in these here fora, even if a cacher never hides a utility box cache, this one normalizes it, and makes it more likely that they'll go fiddlin' with a power box in the future.

 

I remember a few years ago when there was a 'thing' about a run on "fake sprinkler head" caches, and everyone predicting that it would lead to people destroying REAL sprinkler systems as they try to yank them out of the ground and pry them apart.

 

If that would happen, you get wet and somebody's roses get flooded.

 

In THIS case, however.....


Zap.

Edited by TeamRabbitRun
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19 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

In THIS case, however.....


Zap.

 

Precisely.  Worse still when the young kids caching with mum and dad start to learn that power boxes are play things with treasure hidden inside them.

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1 minute ago, Goldenwattle said:

WONDERFUL cache, very worthy of its favourite points. Well done 🏅

I think this is a great example of creativity! Children coming with their parents will learn how to place creative caches!

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The number of favourites is amazing; over 500. None of my caches has had even that many visits. One of my more visited caches has existed one year longer than that cache, and it has had only just over 200 visits. This demonstrates the difference in population.

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Yes no kidding! I had one that was out there for about 2 or 3 months before it actually got found once!

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This entire conversation reminds me of the famous poem by Pastor Martin Neimoller.   I guess some folks weren't satisfied for killing off Challenge Listings, so now they have to go after gadget caches with verifiable permission.  Pretty sad really.

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14 hours ago, Keystone said:

The cache was hidden with express permission from the local municipality and from the province. And, the cache owner informed all the nearby business owners about the cache. And, it looks like a locker to me, not active utility equipment.

 

Permission makes up for a LOT of issues.  Many gadget caches or other out of the ordinary caches wouldn't be published without clear evidence of permission.  Get that permission, detail it for your reviewer, and things go a lot smoother!

 

Yeah...I kind of side with others on this.  It gives the impression of being a suitable container and hide style.  Permission is a moot point.  Same with birdhouses bolted to trees or ammo cans buried in a hole and covered with leaves.  Are TPTB comfortable giving the impression that these are acceptable just because they've been done that way by others?  Not only acceptable, but now by publishing this in the blog, they give the impression that it's a great idea to open up utility boxes because HEY!  electricity is fun!

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3 minutes ago, J Grouchy said:

 

Yeah...I kind of side with others on this.  It gives the impression of being a suitable container and hide style.  Permission is a moot point.  Same with birdhouses bolted to trees or ammo cans buried in a hole and covered with leaves.  Are TPTB comfortable giving the impression that these are acceptable just because they've been done that way by others?  Not only acceptable, but now by publishing this in the blog, they give the impression that it's a great idea to open up utility boxes because HEY!  electricity is fun!

There is no problem with that GREAT cache.  It would be very obvious that it is not an electricity box when the coordinates take you there and the cache explains how to open it. If you are worried about your children getting the wrong idea, you only need to explain to them that other electricity boxes are not like this. If they are old enough to cache, they are old enough to understand this...unless they are unusually stupid. For goodness sake, I had no problem as a very young child understanding when it was explained to me that the pills in the bottles were not lollies and I wasn't to eat them. So I didn't touch them. It should be the same with electricity boxes. At that age children should be with their parents, not wandering around the street looking for other (real) electricity boxes to open. And by the time they are old enough to wander around the streets by themselves, I'm sure they would have worked out the difference by then.

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I have no issue with showcasing this as a cache of the week. If these electrical boxes were that easy to get open, they wouldn't exist because by now, so many of them would have been opened and people gotten hurt or killed, any city/utility company would have been sued into bankruptcy long ago.

 

The problem is when reading the blog post, it doesn't say anything about the fact that this isn't a real electrical box. In fact, it points out at least twice how this cache looks just like a "mundane utility box". Really, the writer of the blog should have been very explicit that this isn't a real utility box, that cachers should not attempt to open a real utility box and that using a real utility box as a place to hide a cache requires explicit permission (and gaining that permission from a utility company is going to be almost impossible).

 

And, if there was ever a container that should absolutely be marked with a geocache emblem, this is it. It looks like a fun cache but it could have been thought out a little better from the outside.

 

 

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Crow-T-Robot just hit on what I was about to say.

It's not about having permission, it's the impression given by promoting the cache that required permission.

 

If there's no mention of permission being granted, and no description of good cache placement practices since this is one that would otherwise be denied, then the blog post does give an unsafe impression for the act of finding (and placing) cool gadgety geocaches (or in general).

 

I don't see a problem with GS highlighting a cache like this, but they should know the context - to avoid potential problems, explain that this was placed with permission, and that even though this one looks like a real electrical box, geocaches should be placed on or near electrical boxes, let alone disguise themselves as one.  Just like geocaches should not be buried, etc.

 

This was a great opportunity to encourage creativity, along with the more stringent rules within which COs can be creative, such as cases like this, if given permission, and being up front about it.

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Real electrical boxes should be marked out with danger stickers! Also usually something this big sitting outside would have powerlines close by and because something like hat would have a higher voltage you would hear a buzzing sound as you approached it!

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48 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

unusually stupid

 

Well... yes and no.

 

It's not just about instructing one's children. I've been to many caches in or on electrical boxes, the most recent a nano lab vial sitting on a bracket that holds a fuse box to a telephone pole. I found one yesterday that was a wooden “bird house” attached to a steel light pole. Perfectly safe, except that there are loose electrical wires sticking out of the pole. Probably no power. Not this time.

 

box-wires3.jpg

 

The problem (for me at least) with something that's hard to find is that I begin to wonder how close to the business end of the electrical stuff the cache is placed. And sometimes I check. In my example of the electrical box, the fuses were gone and the box was kind of broken and missing its door, but I couldn't tell if there was still power there. I've built a couple of electrical style caches, and never placed them, specifically due to these concerns. I don't want to create issues for the finders. And I don't want them to become complacent. Not all caches are designed to be fool-proof. Plus, it's easy to be searching the wrong spot, the cache being not at the electrical boxes.  As folks have mentioned, at least my cache will have a decent "Geocache" sticker to guide you.

 

If I go for one of those anyway, I'm cautious, and if I find the cache and there's insufficient info, I usually add something in my log about where not to poke around on that box. If I can't find it, I try to resist the urge to explore around the power wires. Even if the cache may be among the live wires. Which sometimes, it is.

 

The cache in the OP is perfect as a one-of-a-kind cache. It's unlikely that a finder will confuse that one for a dangerous cache. For one thing, cachers will hear about it before ever hunting it. “Looks like an electrical box, no electricity”. On the bah-zillion other caches on or in live electrical equipment, you won't get that word of mouth. It's safe, and a great idea, to avoid them entirely.

 

Edited by kunarion
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2 minutes ago, Crow-T-Robot said:

And, if there was ever a container that should absolutely be marked with a geocache emblem, this is it. It looks like a fun cache but it could have been thought out a little better from the outside.

 

Agreed.  I also don't have too many issues with this being a "cache of the week".   Seen enough that weren't close that this one's not really that bad.   :)

 - I'd bet most here have seen that the ones that aren't do seem to have the most FPs though ...

But "This cache embodies that spirit by hiding an entire fire department and puzzle contraptions inside that mundane utility box"  says there's so many other "boring utility boxes"  in this hobby that this one was a refreshing change (to me). 

Fortunately we haven't seen that...

It may even have a Geocaching emblem that  we're simply not seeing in the gallery,  but I'd like to see that as a minimum as well.

 - We've seen a few with official-looking "titles" stenciled on them that were interesting.  

 

The other 2/3rds got knocked on her can once touching a container that (afterwards) we saw had a bare, hot wire alongside it.

She was one of two unfortunate ones to touch it. The other didn't want folks upset with them and didn't say anything.  We see that a lot.

 - Turned out it was done by another who took the thing apart and didn't "fix" the error correctly. It was never inside it...

It was archived soon after, with the "CO" giving up the game in a huff when it was found most caches either didn't conform to guidelines,  had no maintenance plans, and "forgot his pen" on the majority of found logs.

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4 minutes ago, learn2mine said:

Real electrical boxes should be marked out with danger stickers! Also usually something this big sitting outside would have powerlines close by and because something like hat would have a higher voltage you would hear a buzzing sound as you approached it!

 

We have underground utilities.   Our boxes are similar to this one in size.

I learned a lot about them in this area after asking a "neighbor" (can't see their house) who to ask where the lines went, when  removing rocks.

 Power boxes here have numbers on them and that's it.  Doesn't make any noise either.     Moved here for the quiet.   :)

We have seen some city/community power stations that hummed like  power line wires though ...

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Who wouldn’t want to find more caches like this?!

 

Educate your kids, be safe, etc., etc., but let’s encourage this sort of creativity.

 

Not massive, but it is marked with a caching logo.

 

35DAA68C-7B6A-4543-9589-D888AEEFE6FF.jpeg

Edited by IceColdUK
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2 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

Not massive, but it is marked with a caching logo.

 

Thanks for that.   :)

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15 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

Who wouldn’t want to find more caches like this?!

 

Educate your kids, be safe, etc., etc., but let’s encourage this sort of creativity.

 

Not massive, but it is marked with a caching logo.

 

35DAA68C-7B6A-4543-9589-D888AEEFE6FF.jpeg

 

Cool. I saw that blotch in other photos, didn't know it was a sticker.  Some big boxes have the cache number in big vinyl lettering.  That always helps me when I'm hunting one.

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12 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

Who wouldn’t want to find more caches like this?!

 

Educate your kids, be safe, etc., etc., but let’s encourage this sort of creativity.

 

Not massive, but it is marked with a caching logo.

 

 

 

While teaching kids is part of it, I think a bigger problem is that people are fundamentally dopes.

 

If you train them that caches are in these boxes, they'll look in these boxes. If they can't get into one, they'll TRY.

 

See my note above about Sprinkler Heads!

 

I read here all the time about cachers breaking open puzzles they can't solve - if cachers will do that, do you think they'll stay away from a big grey box?

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34 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

Who wouldn’t want to find more caches like this?!

 

Some of these are pretty cool!  You may not find many "more", especially like the OP.  They will definitely be rare.

 

They do not need to all be "fun electricity ZZZapp, fooled you" situations. In the case of the OP, I don't know why even that one had to be an "ordinary utility box".  As I've said, it seems fine that way, but as a "firemen" themed cache, I can imagine other ideas, even using that same "box".  As Keystone said, it does look more like a locker.  That is, at least it's unlike "utility boxes" where I live.  That may help.

 

The locked bird house I found this week was a wooden bird house.  There's a big wooden cabinet against a building north of Atlanta, and I walked past it several times looking for the cache (no cache label on the cabinet).  I've never seen warnings about "watch out for real bird houses which are dangerous" (maybe notes about not bothering the birds), nor copy-cat caches in dangerous wooden dressers when someone found a safe one.  This is one reason why none of my caches (yet) are "electrical equipment", nor even "sprinkler heads".  I've found some of each, but if "utility equipment", they tended to be very special one-off deals.

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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43 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

If you train them that caches are in these boxes, they'll look in these boxes. If they can't get into one, they'll TRY.

Train them to make responsible decissions, to consider the circumstances, make them think!

 

Digital thinking like "utility boxes are good or bad" makes people stupid. And thers where Darwin kicks in ;)

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2 hours ago, Touchstone said:

This entire conversation reminds me of the famous poem by Pastor Martin Neimoller.   I guess some folks weren't satisfied for killing off Challenge Listings, so now they have to go after gadget caches with verifiable permission.  Pretty sad really.

I'm sorry you think this is some kind of witch hunt. People are raising a perfectly reasonable point about a GS action intended to laud a particular cache as great. I think most people would love to have more caches like this, but feel like it's a little hypocritical for GS to laud this one if they would reject others that aren't quite as clever or don't have the right connections to get approved. Personally I like this cache and am very glad caches like this can be published even if they are exceptions to normal standards. But I can also understand the objections and think it would be great to discuss them mainly because I think it will make everyone a little more aware of the fact that the rules (or guidelines, if you prefer) are there for good reasons, but they are, nevertheless, absolute. Keystone's response was a little disappointing, for example, because it's always been quite clear that permission is not sufficient justification in most cases when a cache violates a guideline.

 

1 hour ago, learn2mine said:

Real electrical boxes should be marked out with danger stickers! Also usually something this big sitting outside would have powerlines close by and because something like hat would have a higher voltage you would hear a buzzing sound as you approached it!

This box looks like most of the electric boxes. Here in California, they don't often carry any significant warnings. And they don't normally make any noise.

 

Also, I think you're imagining that the problem is that utility boxes are dangerous. While it's true that some are, the larger observation is that they shouldn't be messed with. Being killed by one is just one of many bad ends that could result from a geocacher opening one up and poking around for a geocache.

 

So your argument doesn't hold much water, but it does raise an interesting question: what guidelines are we thinking this box might violate? I don't worry about the letter of the law -- I'm fine leaving that up to reveiwers -- but as I recall, there's not even a guild line about "too dangerous", so are there any this fake box actually violate. My reaction was more that it didn't seem like a good idea -- although, as I've said, that wasn't enough for me to oppose it -- but I don't know whether a cache like this normally be approved.

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I thought it was up tot he finder to make sure it's safe! Not the cache hider! Obviously within reason but I sure wouldn't have anything wrong with it!

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18 hours ago, Keystone said:

The cache was hidden with express permission from the local municipality and from the province. And, the cache owner informed all the nearby business owners about the cache. And, it looks like a locker to me, not active utility equipment.

 

Permission makes up for a LOT of issues.  Many gadget caches or other out of the ordinary caches wouldn't be published without clear evidence of permission.  Get that permission, detail it for your reviewer, and things go a lot smoother!

 

It would also help if it were mentioned on the cache page that it was created with permission.   If explicit permission allows for caches that wouldn't otherwise be published it should be a requirement that the cache listing states that permission was obtained.  Without such a statement someone finding the cache might attempt to duplicate it, but not ask for explicit permission and unless it's otherwise obvious to a reviewer that explicit permission should have been obtained, they're likely going to publish it.

 

A similar scenario exists for caches that are buried, but on private property (or where explicit permission has been obtained by the land owner).

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Looks like a utility box to me.  I have to give this one a thumbs down.  Idea is great, just find some other place/box to place it.

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50 minutes ago, dprovan said:

I'm sorry you think this is some kind of witch hunt. People are raising a perfectly reasonable point about a GS action intended to laud a particular cache as great. I think most people would love to have more caches like this, but feel like it's a little hypocritical for GS to laud this one if they would reject others that aren't quite as clever or don't have the right connections to get approved. Personally I like this cache and am very glad caches like this can be published even if they are exceptions to normal standards. But I can also understand the objections and think it would be great to discuss them mainly because I think it will make everyone a little more aware of the fact that the rules (or guidelines, if you prefer) are there for good reasons, but they are, nevertheless, absolute. Keystone's response was a little disappointing, for example, because it's always been quite clear that permission is not sufficient justification in most cases when a cache violates a guideline.

 

This box looks like most of the electric boxes. Here in California, they don't often carry any significant warnings. And they don't normally make any noise.

 

Also, I think you're imagining that the problem is that utility boxes are dangerous. While it's true that some are, the larger observation is that they shouldn't be messed with. Being killed by one is just one of many bad ends that could result from a geocacher opening one up and poking around for a geocache.

 

So your argument doesn't hold much water, but it does raise an interesting question: what guidelines are we thinking this box might violate? I don't worry about the letter of the law -- I'm fine leaving that up to reveiwers -- but as I recall, there's not even a guild line about "too dangerous", so are there any this fake box actually violate. My reaction was more that it didn't seem like a good idea -- although, as I've said, that wasn't enough for me to oppose it -- but I don't know whether a cache like this normally be approved.

Ah sorry I was just imagining say a transformer or something! Sorry I'm actually the son of an electrician and maybe it would just be easier for me to tell!

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1 minute ago, PeoriaBill said:

Looks like a utility box to me.  I have to give this one a thumbs down.  Idea is great, just find some other place/box to place it.

What would be a better container! Why not just paint it bright green!

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51 minutes ago, dprovan said:

So your argument doesn't hold much water, but it does raise an interesting question: what guidelines are we thinking this box might violate? I don't worry about the letter of the law -- I'm fine leaving that up to reveiwers -- but as I recall, there's not even a guild line about "too dangerous", so are there any this fake box actually violate. My reaction was more that it didn't seem like a good idea -- although, as I've said, that wasn't enough for me to oppose it -- but I don't know whether a cache like this normally be approved.

 

Not sure if this addresses your question, but when I tried publishing one cache, it was very close to a transformer box (but not on it).  The reviewer wrote to me and asked me to move it to avoid having cachers assume that's where it was.  Having found many caches actually ON transformer boxes, I was a bit surprised by this request...but I didn't really question it since I assumed there were probably new unpublished 'rules' in place that reviewers were being asked to follow.

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1 hour ago, dprovan said:

So your argument doesn't hold much water, but it does raise an interesting question: what guidelines are we thinking this box might violate? I don't worry about the letter of the law -- I'm fine leaving that up to reveiwers -- but as I recall, there's not even a guild line about "too dangerous", so are there any this fake box actually violate. My reaction was more that it didn't seem like a good idea -- although, as I've said, that wasn't enough for me to oppose it -- but I don't know whether a cache like this normally be approved.

 

It might be covered by regional guidelines. The ones for Australia say this:

 

Quote

Caches are not typically published on any of the following:

  • Power Poles, Transmission Lines and Power Boxes

 

and I'd imagine there's something similar in other places.

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3 hours ago, kunarion said:

It's not just about instructing one's children. I've been to many caches in or on electrical boxes, the most recent a nano lab vial sitting on a bracket that holds a fuse box to a telephone pole. I found one yesterday that was a wooden “bird house” attached to a steel light pole. Perfectly safe, except that there are loose electrical wires sticking out of the pole. Probably no power. Not this time.

 

This is quite normal. Almost at every GZ where  I have visited, all nearby utility boxes have been opened and let wires exposed as in your example.

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2 hours ago, dprovan said:

...what guidelines are we thinking this box might violate?

 

17 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

It might be covered by regional guidelines. The ones for Australia say this...

 

We have a similar regional guideline here in BC, Canada (for reference, BC Hydro is the primary electric utility for most of the province):

Quote

BC Hydro equipment is off limits to geocaching. As it is difficult to determine if the equipment belongs to BC Hydro or not, it is best to refrain from placing geocaches on or near any electrical equipment.

 

As for the rest of the guidelines, I don't think it really falls under any of them. As has been discussed in the past, there really isn't a "safety" guideline. All that being said, there are still many scenarios where a cache could be published, but still not be a good idea for other reasons. A lot of people consider hiding a cache in a faux-electrical box to fall under that heading.

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5 hours ago, Touchstone said:

This entire conversation reminds me of the famous poem by Pastor Martin Neimoller.   I guess some folks weren't satisfied for killing off Challenge Listings, so now they have to go after gadget caches with verifiable permission.  Pretty sad really.

You're mischaracterizing our objections. Gadget caches aren't the issue here; how the gadget cache is hidden is. I'd have absolutely no problem if the cache in question was hidden in a brown wooden box, or any other style of box that doesn't look at all like a typical electrical box.

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4 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

If you are worried about your children getting the wrong idea, you only need to explain to them that other electricity boxes are not like this. If they are old enough to cache, they are old enough to understand this...unless they are unusually stupid. For goodness sake, I had no problem as a very young child understanding when it was explained to me that the pills in the bottles were not lollies and I wasn't to eat them. So I didn't touch them. It should be the same with electricity boxes.

Uhhh, that isn't how it works in reality. If it were, there wouldn't be a need for Poison Control hotlines.

 

Kids like to explore. Kids like to put things in their mouths. Tell a kid not to do something, and they'll soon forget/ignore and do exactly what you told them not to do. Tell them not to touch the hot stove, and they'll learn a hard (but relatively harmless) lesson when they go ahead and do it anyway. Show them a cache that's hidden in something that looks like an electrical box, and they'll explore other electrical boxes. In most cases, there shouldn't be an issue. But, in those few cases where a loose electrical line is touching the casing of the box...

 

I'm glad we have a regional guideline that covers this case. It would be nice to see a global guideline covering the same.

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3 hours ago, kunarion said:

I've never seen warnings about "watch out for real bird houses which are dangerous" (maybe notes about not bothering the birds), nor copy-cat caches in dangerous wooden dressers when someone found a safe one.  This is one reason why none of my caches (yet) are "electrical equipment", nor even "sprinkler heads".  I've found some of each, but if "utility equipment", they tended to be very special one-off deals.

 

One of the few events where most participated in discussion was bird's nests/houses, after a new cacher placed hides in both.

Later changed to fake nests and houses until I asked, "What's the difference?  Folks will check, just in case.". 

 - One trail saw no bluebirds in nests that usually saw dozens (where a couple caches were hidden), and I believe "just in case" did it.

 

One popular cacher not too far away was notorious for electrical box hides.  Ornate things with conduit, wires (in the box only), the works.

Well, the caches were "hidden" well enough that a couple landowners complained about "those cachers" dismantling live boxes.

 - Just in case....

IIRC, cops called to a bomb scare (cache) at a park n ride was the end of those "creative" hides for them.       

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3 hours ago, The A-Team said:

Uhhh, that isn't how it works in reality. If it were, there wouldn't be a need for Poison Control hotlines.

 

Kids like to explore. Kids like to put things in their mouths. Tell a kid not to do something, and they'll soon forget/ignore and do exactly what you told them not to do. Tell them not to touch the hot stove, and they'll learn a hard (but relatively harmless) lesson when they go ahead and do it anyway. Show them a cache that's hidden in something that looks like an electrical box, and they'll explore other electrical boxes. In most cases, there shouldn't be an issue. But, in those few cases where a loose electrical line is touching the casing of the box...

 

I'm glad we have a regional guideline that covers this case. It would be nice to see a global guideline covering the same.

You cut this part of my answer out; " At that age children should be with their parents, not wandering around the street looking for other (real) electricity boxes to open. And by the time they are old enough to wander around the streets by themselves, I'm sure they would have worked out the difference by then. "

If they are too young to understand this it is a very irresponsible parent who allows their child to wander when so young. Yes the occasional parent does; the drug users across the street would let their toddler (in saggy nappy) wander the neighbourhood, but then I doubt those parents were into geocaching. Most parents I can't imagine though allowing their toddler to wander, and by the time they are school age they should be able to understand that they are not to play with electrical things and most don't have caches in them. As I said, I had no problems after it was explained, knowing I wasn't to eat the pills in bottles and they weren't lollies, so I am sure if geocaching existed then and it was explained to me that I wasn't to touch electrical boxes I wouldn't.

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I don't see anything particularly wrong with this one.

If this is inappropriate for kids should we also boycott caches that teach kids it's OK to :

  • take long hikes in the open desert.
  • climb trees
  • swim in open water
  • go down caves
  • go out in the woods at night
  • climb abandoned structures
  • ...

All of which carry some element of risk.

 

or should we accept that kids need to learn about risk if they want to live to a ripe old age, and this provides a good way to learn in a controlled manner.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

I don't see anything particularly wrong with this one.

If this is inappropriate for kids should we also boycott caches that teach kids it's OK to :

  • take long hikes in the open desert.
  • climb trees
  • swim in open water
  • go down caves
  • go out in the woods at night
  • climb abandoned structures
  • ...

All of which carry some element of risk.

 

or should we accept that kids need to learn about risk if they want to live to a ripe old age, and this provides a good way to learn in a controlled manner.

 

 

 

Doing all those things is fine with the right preparation, training and risk assessment. Prising open electricity or telecommunications utility boxes to see if there's a geocache inside is never the right thing to do (unless I suppose you're an employee of said utililty).

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Those who don't like this are well outnumbered by those that do. It has over 500 favourites, so a lot of people don't agree with those here who are finding fault with this cache.

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19 hours ago, learn2mine said:

Real electrical boxes should be marked out with danger stickers! Also usually something this big sitting outside would have powerlines close by and because something like hat would have a higher voltage you would hear a buzzing sound as you approached it!

 

Not around here. There are plenty of similar boxes here. No buzzing at all because not all all electric. Telecom (telephone/cable) boxes look the same but most if not all have a little sticker with company name/contact on it. Many powerlines are underground here too. High tension cabins here are bigger and have clear markings (15000V -- Danger).

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2 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Those who don't like this are well outnumbered by those that do. It has over 500 favourites, so a lot of people don't agree with those here who are finding fault with this cache.

 

A cache may be popular and also a bad idea. Many are.  There's a cache where I live that is a paint bucket that fills with water in what has become a mud pit that fills with water. It's right at peoples' property lines in a nice subdivision. The cache remains closed today to avoid crowds of cachers arriving during the recent Mega event 100 miles away. The hide style, the container and the location are all no good for a cache, and in no way suitable to copy.  And it has hundreds of Favorite points.

 

One big issue is copy-cats who find high voltage caches, and then make new caches on live electrical devices, or cachers who dig around in electricity because they've seen caches like that, as mentioned.  An example of that is the common "lamp post cache".  The vast majority have live power, even exposed wires.  And they are ever so popular. ;)

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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18 minutes ago, kunarion said:

There's a cache where I live that is a paint bucket that fills with water in what has become a mud pit that fills with water. It's right at peoples' property lines in a nice subdivision.

Hardly can be compared with the one mentioned here. This one deserves those 500 favourite points. As for the cache you mention getting hundreds of points, it continues to amaze me, because my most visited cache, which I placed several years ago, only has about 200 finds, let alone that many favourites.

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21 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

As for the cache you mention getting hundreds of points, it continues to amaze me, because my most visited cache, which I placed several years ago, only has about 200 finds, let alone that many favourites.

 

I'm hoping to avoid owning a cache that brings crowds, but I hope people find it cool. I have one like that. Very few finders, but almost every finder places a Favorite point. It seems pretty balanced between being well-liked, and easy to maintain.

 

The one in the OP is great in a metal cabinet on a concrete slab. As a hide style, it's wonderful, somehow being out in the open, yet not routinely muggled. But if I did that, it would not be a high voltage box, for reasons already mentioned.

 

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4 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Those who don't like this are well outnumbered by those that do. It has over 500 favourites, so a lot of people don't agree with those here who are finding fault with this cache.

 

As kunarion said, a cache may be popular and also a bad idea.  Also it's easy to pass judgment on caches from around the world where culture and etiquette may be completely different. It's not majority rule in this case; the concern being raised is consistency. The blog is visible worldwide. And in some cases common hide styles get crticism for safety or damage control, but often in the blog caches get highlighted without a word of safety or damage control - especially when there's an opportunity to educate newcomers to the hobby about what good and safe etiquette is, in general, and as it pertains to your local region. It's just more consistent that way and doesn't send mixed signals.

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4 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Doing all those things is fine with the right preparation, training and risk assessment. Prising open electricity or telecommunications utility boxes to see if there's a geocache inside is never the right thing to do

It's not fine to climb a diseased and rotten tree.

It's not fine to swim a crocodile infested river.

...

It's not fine to open a live electricity box.

 

Preparation, training and risk assessment is required for all those situations, the assessment for the electricity box is  primarily focused on whether or not it really is an electricity box or not.

 

Lots of muggles would say "it's never OK to pick up an unidentified package"  (especially those which look like pipe bombs), but with our specialist training, preparation, and risk assessment we do it all the time.

 

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OK, it's me, the OP.

 

Let's pull this back.

 

I wasn't objecting to the cache. It went through the review process and everything that that encompasses locally. It passed, so therefore it's a legitimate geocache. Everyone saying this is about 'objecting to the cache', stop. Not the point.

 

This isn't about kids any more than it's about adult cachers. Everyone saying we should be training our kids to be more responsible, stop. Not the point.

 

This isn't about guidelines. Everyone insisting that it doesn't violate any guidelines, stop. Not the point.

 

This is about precedence. See Cerberus1's post that started with "One of the few events..." That nails it.

 

In his (her?) example, it's stated that no new REAL bluebird nests were found on a trail that usually had dozens after somebody started planting nest caches, and the implication is that other cachers may have started routinely poking into real nests, and the bluebirds left. That's horrible!

 

In the 'Utility Box' case, the OP'd objection was that Groundspeak was holding this cache up as a shining example of geocache excellence, and the problem is that ...

 

People....

 

Are....

 

Stupid.

 

The legal situation that makes plastic bag manufacturers write "Do Not Put This Over Your Head" on their products here in the US is at play. OF COURSE you shouldn't open a utility box and poke around in it. EVERYBODY know that. It's just COMMON SENSE!!!

 

And yet, people dismantle real boxes and real sprinkler heads. People break things, just because. People pry open puzzles because they can, or they're entitled, or selfish, or dismissive, or they don't want to admit defeat,

 

Jeez, people LIE ABOUT FINDING CACHES! IN OTHER HEMISPHERES!

 

So, to reiterate, Groundspeak tells the world that this is an example of a great cache, and it's open season on utility boxes, regardless of the color or whether or not there's a sticker on it.

 

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