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u rack i smack

Deleted Logs

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I have been making a mistake for awhile now. Most of the time when I would find a cache I would not physically sign the log if I didn't have a pen with me or the log was full or too small to write on, thinking I am going to log on my device or computer that" I found it". So Is It common practice for the CO to delete my log for doing this? If they do, I can see if people are logging" I found it" online but not actually finding it or even looking for the cache, but really who would do this?

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Afraid you’re unlikely to get a lot of sympathy here...

 

Signing the log book is the proof that you found the cache.  It’s pretty much the first rule of Geocaching.  Not all COs will compare online logs to the physical logbook, but some do.

 

Most COs will accept an alternative form of proof, such as a (non-spoiling) photo of the log book, but some take the “no signy, no smiley” mantra very seriously.

 

The trickier the cache, the more likely the CO is to enforce the rule.

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4 hours ago, u rack i smack said:

I have been making a mistake for awhile now. Most of the time when I would find a cache I would not physically sign the log if I didn't have a pen with me or the log was full or too small to write on, thinking I am going to log on my device or computer that" I found it". So Is It common practice for the CO to delete my log for doing this? If they do, I can see if people are logging" I found it" online but not actually finding it or even looking for the cache, but really who would do this?

 

If you actually did find the cache, here's a tip: Never write in your online log that you didn't sign the log. Many COs will delete a find if someone writes that they didn't sign the log. If an owner is going to delete a log he can check his physical log to confirm. Of course, if the cache owner checks the physical logsheet and doesn't see your signature on the sheet, he can then delete your log. (Except when it's a group/team find, then anyone that is on that team is allowed to log a find no matter if they visited the cache as intended or not. They could be waiting in the car but get to log it as a find.)

Consider making some kind of mark on the sheet then noting in your online log that you left a mark ("Used a twig and crushed leaf to leave a green stain"). Did you take a photo of the cache? Some COs might accept your found log with photo evidence that you had the cache in hand. I will often leave a mark and take a photo. I've never been asked by a CO for proof, but I have it if needed. 

 

Edited by L0ne.R

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We've checked all logs for signatures on our caches that were 3T and up.   Other folks made a true effort to get there.

Lesser caches, we'll check if we get a mail saying a faker (by logs...) ran through, or notice a log that pretty-much shows they weren't even in the area.

 - They're mostly left for new folks learning the hobby, so we don't bother otherwise.

 

Can't tell you how many times we had "log full" logs, to find the other side of the pages untouched.  Paper has two sides...

"Too small to write on" wouldn't be a good-enough reason to fake a find (for us) either.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, u rack i smack said:

If they do, I can see if people are logging" I found it" online but not actually finding it or even looking for the cache, but really who would do this?

 

We're to assume you're the honest one after a look at the log finds a few signatures missing?       :)

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1 hour ago, u rack i smack said:

I can see if people are logging" I found it" online but not actually finding it or even looking for the cache, but really who would do this?

 

Search this forum for “armchair logging”.  They walk (though not very far) among us...

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6 hours ago, u rack i smack said:

if I didn't have a pen with me or the log was full or too small to write on, thinking I am going to log on my device or computer that" I found it".

 

Have a pen with you.

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8 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

Have a pen with you.

^^This. Why would you go caching without a pen? I have never seen a log that was too small to write on. Full log? write in the margins and file a NM.

 

What you think if you went to a lot of trouble to create a nice cache in an interesting area, and someone claimed that they found the cache but didn't sign the log fecause they "forgot their pen"?

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5 minutes ago, Mockingbird559 said:

What you think if you went to a lot of trouble to create a nice cache in an interesting area, and someone claimed that they found the cache but didn't sign the log fecause they "forgot their pen"?

It wouldn't matter much to me. If I created "a nice cache in an interesting area", I'd feel it's more important that the person was able to have that experience than worry about whether they signed the log or not. Yes, it would be nice if they could sign the log, but sometimes "things happen" and you find yourself without a way of signing the log. Give me some proof that you were there and I'd be happy as a clam.

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1 hour ago, Mockingbird559 said:

Why would you go caching without a pen? I have never seen a log that was too small to write on. Full log? write in the margins and file a NM.

Meh. I always carry 3 pens in my pocket, but it hasn't prevented me from finding myself holding a cache without a pen. I can't exactly say why because each time is different. But the fact that it can happen even to the most reasonable and careful geocache doesn't change the fact that the CO can deny my find if I don't sign the log.

 

I don't file NMs for full logs, but that's because I can always sign a full log, it's just that sometimes my signature is over top of an older signature. It may make both signatures illegible, but that's not really my problem since I did sign the log. (Although in practice I find that almost always when a log is full, it's old enough that some of the early signatures have faded out.)

 

1 hour ago, Mockingbird559 said:

What you think if you went to a lot of trouble to create a nice cache in an interesting area, and someone claimed that they found the cache but didn't sign the log fecause they "forgot their pen"?

I'd be glad I put the cache out because one more person enjoyed it. Why would them forgetting their pen enter into it, even if I did decide to delete their find logs because I didn't believe them?

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The few times I have found myself without a pen (I usually carry two in case one runs out of ink), I have found other ways to prove I was there, and it's always been excepted. Once I picked up a piece of charcoal and made a mark on the log. I photographed this, as charcoal can rub off and included the photograph in my online log. Other times an apology to the CO for being silly enough to leave a pen behind, and a photograph of the log has been accepted. I have yet to find someone who will not accept a photograph, but then again, I have only failed to bring a pen on 3 or 4 occasions, so haven't tested this widely.

I will not accept a log claim without a signature or other proof, such as a photograph. I have also accepted a detailed description.

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On 10/12/2018 at 9:48 AM, cerberus1 said:

 

 

Can't tell you how many times we had "log full" logs, to find the other side of the pages untouched.  Paper has two sides...

 

This is so obvious - but is often overlooked 

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On 10/12/2018 at 5:27 PM, IceColdUK said:

Afraid you’re unlikely to get a lot of sympathy here...

 

u rack i smack, you have my sympathy.

 

In the end it is all about having fun while being respectful to each other.

 

As an owner I (the following lines are subjective!) want you to find my cache and if the logbook is protected by any trick lock or something else you should open that, too. You should sign the log if possible (as that are the rules) but if there is any good reason you can't do that (no pen, full logbook, box jammed or frozen in the winter time) you can proof your find in any other way: send me a photograph, send my a description or just tell me honestly how it was, I usually do not see any reason not to believe you.

 

If you find one my caches please do not

- open them with force if the box is jammed

- overwrite other logs if the logbook is full

- use mud or blood to sign a log

That may destroy the container or make the logbook unsightly which I dislike more than you not writing some letters in a book. (If you have a cache owner demanding on the signature do so; it is his problem then what happens to the box and the logbook.)

 

If there is a problem with the cache (e. g. it won't open as intended, rust or something like that) please tell me. You got the clue not to tell if you didn't sign the log which meant not to alert the owner in such a case - forget about the hint and report such problems. That is important to keep the cache going.

 

And now that is the objective part: If you don't sign the logbook the owner may delete your online log considering the rules. But I do not know many cachers that would really do so. There are better reasons for a log deletion...

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14 hours ago, frostengel said:

 

In the end it is all about having fun while being respectful to each other.

 

 

The voice of reason! :)

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On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:30 PM, The A-Team said:

It wouldn't matter much to me. If I created "a nice cache in an interesting area", I'd feel it's more important that the person was able to have that experience than worry about whether they signed the log or not. Yes, it would be nice if they could sign the log, but sometimes "things happen" and you find yourself without a way of signing the log. Give me some proof that you were there and I'd be happy as a clam.

                                                                                                                                                        

This sounds about right!

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1 hour ago, justintim1999 said:
On 10/12/2018 at 10:30 PM, The A-Team said:

It wouldn't matter much to me. If I created "a nice cache in an interesting area", I'd feel it's more important that the person was able to have that experience than worry about whether they signed the log or not. Yes, it would be nice if they could sign the log, but sometimes "things happen" and you find yourself without a way of signing the log. Give me some proof that you were there and I'd be happy as a clam.

                                                                                                                                                        

This sounds about right!

 

On 10/15/2018 at 2:17 AM, funkymunkyzone said:
On 10/14/2018 at 11:28 AM, frostengel said:

 

In the end it is all about having fun while being respectful to each other.

 

 

The voice of reason! :)

 

u rack i smack, you got more sympathy than I expected!  For the record, I'm with these guys.  I've never deleted a log, though I have messaged a few new players to remind them that not all CO's are as nice as me. ;-)  Have fun.

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I should also note that while I don't normally check the physical logs of my caches against the online logs, I do have one cache where I do. It has a trick to it, whereby if you haven't signed the log, then you're really missing out on the cache. I compare the logs periodically and have deleted a few logs from cachers who had failed to sign the physical log. So, while it isn't common, there are certain caches and COs who will check and delete logs.

 

In summary, sign the log if possible. If not, you'll be okay most of the time, but you may have the occasional log deleted.

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On 10/12/2018 at 11:21 PM, Mockingbird559 said:

Why would you go caching without a pen?

 

I have posted this in other "forgot my pen" threads, so I'll echo it here:  most people don't intend to go out caching with a pen, just as most people don't intentionally leave their wallets at home, or lose their pen in their bag, or leave a pen or hiking stick or phone or GPSr at a geocache.  All have happened to me over the last eleven years of geocaching.  I've never left my daughter at a geocache, but then she can walk and talk, and she wouldn't let me leave her behind even if I tried.  :laughing:

 

If you have never forgotten anything, then kudos to you.

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2 hours ago, hzoi said:

 

I have posted this in other "forgot my pen" threads, so I'll echo it here:  most people don't intend to go out caching with a pen, just as most people don't intentionally leave their wallets at home, or lose their pen in their bag, or leave a pen or hiking stick or phone or GPSr at a geocache.  All have happened to me over the last eleven years of geocaching.  I've never left my daughter at a geocache, but then she can walk and talk, and she wouldn't let me leave her behind even if I tried.  :laughing:

 

If you have never forgotten anything, then kudos to you.

 

I have forgotten things.  But I hope people aren't gonna start threads about forgetting their children.  "Forgot my daughter at Stage One in the wilderness so she of course never made it to the Final, why was her Find log deleted?!  I don't have an extra daughter."  :blink:

 

I had a Space Pen on a carabiner clipped to my pack.  The pen is held securely into its cap.  I checked.  It can't be pulled from its cap by bushwhacking.  One day I hiked to a cache, found and signed, returned to the car, and that pen was gone.  The cap with its secured pen had become unscrewed from the part that attaches to the carabiner. :rolleyes:

 

No more of that.  I carry extra pens, including a Sharpie.  A Sharpie is useful in many tough situations.

 

If I go check a cache without my pack, yet need a pen, I return to my car and get a pen.  I have pens in the car.

 

I'd never even think to create threads about "no pen vs. waaay too strict Cache Owners".  And there are a lotta threads here like that.

 

Edited by kunarion
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3 hours ago, hzoi said:

If you have never forgotten anything, then kudos to you.

 

I've kept a space pen refill in my wallet since I carried wallets, sharpies, pencils and G2s in every bag I have (they stay there), so I'm never without a pen.

 - But can't tell you how many times I'm walking back to the truck and have to go back for my hiking stick...  :D

 

 

 

 

Edited by cerberus1
spllellinng
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I found 2 logs I could not sign because the logs were so wet that the paper was pulp. I posted this and then submitted photos to show what I found.

 

I always have at least one pen in my purse (usually I have in excess of 5), because I can never find one at work when I need one (and I need one at work several times a day). They come in handy when I geocache on a whim. 

 

So I do sign most logs to prove I was actually there. But as others have said, there are other ways to prove that you were there, if signing is not possible for some reason.

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31 minutes ago, Lorien99 said:

as others have said, there are other ways to prove that you were there, if signing is not possible for some reason.

 

I would never do it like that, yet there's typically no doubt I "was there".  When a game says "Find A Cache, Sign The Log", that's the absolute minimum I will do, to make an online "Smilie".  If it's not possible to sign, then I didn't sign the log.

 

Edited by kunarion
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8 hours ago, kunarion said:

If I go check a cache without my pack, yet need a pen, I return to my car and get a pen.  I have pens in the car.

 

On at least one of the occasions when that's happened to me, my car was 50km away at the railway station near home. After an hour of wandering the streets I did eventually find a shop that sold pens.

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On 10/12/2018 at 5:30 PM, The A-Team said:

It wouldn't matter much to me. If I created "a nice cache in an interesting area", I'd feel it's more important that the person was able to have that experience than worry about whether they signed the log or not. Yes, it would be nice if they could sign the log, but sometimes "things happen" and you find yourself without a way of signing the log. Give me some proof that you were there and I'd be happy as a clam.

 

I feel the same way,   if a finder enjoyed the experience of finding one of my caches, and especially if they wrote a nice online log about it, I really don't care if they physically signed the log sheet.  

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1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

if they wrote a nice online log about it

We had a couple (probably one person?) of armchair loggers who wrote nice logs, describing their nice day and the like. Very, very believable sounding. All fiction. I would want more than a nice log. Signature, a photo or a detailed description.

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3 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

We had a couple (probably one person?) of armchair loggers who wrote nice logs, describing their nice day and the like. Very, very believable sounding. All fiction. I would want more than a nice log. Signature, a photo or a detailed description.

 

We had a faker even leaving a favorite point once !    Guess he figured if he "wowed" us, he wouldn't be noticed (not accessing a 5T).  :D

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23 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

We had a faker even leaving a favorite point once !    Guess he figured if he "wowed" us, he wouldn't be noticed (not accessing a 5T).  :D

 

I guess even armchair cachers still have favourites!

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7 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

 

We had a faker even leaving a favorite point once !    Guess he figured if he "wowed" us, he wouldn't be noticed (not accessing a 5T).  :D

Where the armchair logger(s) I am referring to got themselves outed, it was them logging a multicache that involved many WPs over three states and one territory; one of them Tasmania, so either an overnight  boat trip, or a plane trip...all in one pleasant afternoon outing.

" today we wanted to try and do multicaches close to home
a lot of fun in the sun with pete lots of walking and driving
we found a few multicaches which was really fun
hopefully i will hide some soon
thanks"

 

They published a cache too. No-one found it. As expected.GC7VEKC  Notice the cache name. I logged a note telling the history of these loggers, but they deleted it.

Edited by Goldenwattle

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On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 11:02 AM, cerberus1 said:

 

I've kept a space pen refill in my wallet since I carried wallets, sharpies, pencils and G2s in every bag I have (they stay there), so I'm never without a pen.

 - But can't tell you how many times I'm walking back to the truck and have to go back for my hiking stick...  :D

 

 

 

 

 

Well, that's why I always leave my hiking stick IN my bag when I'm out on the trail!

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